How do you hydrate your hair in spring/summer/high dew?

ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
Just curious if you are leaving out creams, leave ins, and avoiding glycerin in response to high dews, how are you hydrating your hair and keeping it hydrated and moisturized?

I'm playing around with LOC plus G to hydrate and seal my perpetually dry hair but it's weighing my hair down a little bit so I've been reading to skip the leave in and skip the cream in spring and summer. But that would effectively rid my routine of alot of emollients and oils and make my LOC method only an O method. If I use a gel, it's just OG. Any advice? What do you do to hydrate if you have high dews?
CG since 11/2014
Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
Low density, very coarse, high porosity
Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
Protein: Hask Keratin
Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel

Comments

  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Last summer, I think I used a humectant-free mousse followed by a heavier texturizer (with emollients and protein) with a humectant-free hard-hold gel on top. I did skip the leave-in. When you have porous hair, it's going to get a lot of hydration from the environment--you actually want to try to stop the moisture from entering the hair (which is why people try to avoid glycerin--it's moisture overload). I view the mousse in my example as a filler (to "fill" the hair so that it isn't seeking moisture), the texturizer as a sealer (it doubles as something to weigh down my hair to avoid poofiness), and the hard-hold gel as my styler (doubles a little bit as a second sealer).
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Therese1- you did? I understand the concept of moisture overload, but I will admit it goes against everything in me to skip a hydrating or moisturizing step in my routine - I am SO dry and have been for so long. I'm trying to add more steps to hydrate. I think I have a couple of glycerin free mousses I could try to put under my hard hold gel.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Ah, I see from your signature that you have coarse hair. Mine is very fine, and it got weighed down in the summer by leave-in; it could handle only so much moisture (my hair gets limp and flat from being overmoisturized). So you might be OK keeping a leave-in. You could just switch to a lighter leave-in in the summer. Do you think that would help?
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Yes a lighter leave in might help. I've been using either Kinky Curly Knot Today (lots of film forming humectants) or GVP Cond Balm. I could try using a lot less of either one of those. Or neither at all. But then how do I ensure I get slip and detangling? Argh!

    I dug out my hair analysis from goose and she had strongly recommended hydrate hydrate hydrate. Using film forming hums, oils seals, and lots of prewash oil treatments. I had not been doing anything with oil other than occasional coconut oil pre poo. I don't think even any of my products had oils in em. I'd been hiding from protein but I guess I will do a couple protein treatments to see of that helps, maybe I'm not as sensitive as I think I am.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,563Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I would try some protein. I recently did something to my hair where I think I overloaded it with protein, but my hair turned out really soft, even the coarse patch on back. I was using the SM Yucca and Plantain poo and RO, as well as the SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie, which has silk protein. I'm not sure what did it, but my hair is very smooth and soft now (too soft for my liking!). So your hair will probably react in different ways to different proteins.

    As far as leave-ins go, I have asked this question on the board, that is, whether a person should just use less of a LI in summer or whether a person should try to find a lighter LI instead. The general answer I got was to try to find a lighter LI, in case that helps.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,472Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I am not much of a leave in gal. Never had much luck with that approach, including the Deva method of leaving in more RO. What I like is the SM Coconut Hibiscus Shine and Hold spray. Not much of that either. Its light, and doubles as a LI and as a sealer. Cheap, too!
  • curlynccurlync Posts: 219Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ttoosday wrote: »
    I understand the concept of moisture overload, but I will admit it goes against everything in me to skip a hydrating or moisturizing step in my routine - I am SO dry and have been for so long. I'm trying to add more steps to hydrate. I think I have a couple of glycerin free mousses I could try to put under my hard hold gel.
    I have coarse hair as well, and like you, my hair GoosefootPrints analysis told me how important it was to promote hydration, prevent dehydration, and use products for lubrication and flexibility. But most times I've tried a leave-in (or leaving in some RO), I just haven't been happy with the results. It always seems to weaken my curl pattern and the amount of hold I get. The only time I've had pretty good results were when using a pea-sized amount of CJ BCLI (seriously, no more than a pea, which seems insane for the thickness and amount of hair I have).
    Two of the ingredients she specifically mentioned in my analysis for promoting hydration were aloe and marshmallow root - both of these are in the UFDCM that I apply immediately out of the shower to very wet hair. Also, in the shower, I use a lot of conditioner, really squish it in, and leave it my hair for about 10 minutes while doing the rest of my shower routine. I'll even add more water to my conditioned hair as I'm squishing in the conditioner. So while I am rinsing my conditioner out completely and skipping a leave-in, I'd like to think I'm getting enough hydration with the conditioner in the shower, adding my products to very wet hair (water = moisture), and using a product with film-forming humectants like the aloe and marshmallow root. I do usually finish with a hard hold gel. I've also been experimenting with oil pre-poos, which Wendy stated can help prevent dehydration. Unfortunately it's hard to find the time to do these regularly or for long enough, but on the days that I have, my hair has so much more slip (is well lubricated as Wendy stated it should be) after rinsing out my conditioner.
    2c/3a
    Porosity: low at roots; normal mid-shaft; high at ends
    Texture: mix of medium & coarse
    Density: medium


    Low-Poo: Jessicurl Gentle Lather; CJ Gentle Cleansing
    RO: GVP Conditioning Balm; Innersense Color Radiance
    Stylers: MT Curly Custard; CHS Curl Keeper; UFD Curly Magic; Innersense I Create Volume

    Occasional use: CJ Repair Me; Elucence Volume Clarifying Shampoo

    CG (or mod CG since I low-poo?) since June 2015
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    curlync wrote: »
    ttoosday wrote: »
    I understand the concept of moisture overload, but I will admit it goes against everything in me to skip a hydrating or moisturizing step in my routine - I am SO dry and have been for so long. I'm trying to add more steps to hydrate. I think I have a couple of glycerin free mousses I could try to put under my hard hold gel.
    I have coarse hair as well, and like you, my hair GoosefootPrints analysis told me how important it was to promote hydration, prevent dehydration, and use products for lubrication and flexibility. But most times I've tried a leave-in (or leaving in some RO), I just haven't been happy with the results. It always seems to weaken my curl pattern and the amount of hold I get. The only time I've had pretty good results were when using a pea-sized amount of CJ BCLI (seriously, no more than a pea, which seems insane for the thickness and amount of hair I have).
    Two of the ingredients she specifically mentioned in my analysis for promoting hydration were aloe and marshmallow root - both of these are in the UFDCM that I apply immediately out of the shower to very wet hair. Also, in the shower, I use a lot of conditioner, really squish it in, and leave it my hair for about 10 minutes while doing the rest of my shower routine. I'll even add more water to my conditioned hair as I'm squishing in the conditioner. So while I am rinsing my conditioner out completely and skipping a leave-in, I'd like to think I'm getting enough hydration with the conditioner in the shower, adding my products to very wet hair (water = moisture), and using a product with film-forming humectants like the aloe and marshmallow root. I do usually finish with a hard hold gel. I've also been experimenting with oil pre-poos, which Wendy stated can help prevent dehydration. Unfortunately it's hard to find the time to do these regularly or for long enough, but on the days that I have, my hair has so much more slip (is well lubricated as Wendy stated it should be) after rinsing out my conditioner.

    Yes, thats exactly what mine said! I do tend to like using a leave-in but honestly, I've never NOT used a leave-in, so...I could try it. I have been using a tiny dab of KC Knot Today for the marshmallow and slippery elm because it seriously detangles. But Ive decreased the amount to like you say, a legit pea size. I am going crazy spreadsheeting everything to determine what is in what product and how to get the most and best ingredients for my hair into the smallest number of products for my routine - and making sure to stay glyerin/prop glycol free. And since I'd been dodging protein, I'm having to buy new products with amino acids or hydro proteins in it to experiment.

    I overload on conditioner in the shower, but I dont do the squish method that you seem to be describing. I can try that. What conditioner do you squish in (does it have ff hums, AND emolls, AND oils AND cationic condishes all combined?)

    I hear ya on the time crunch situation. I work full time, and on evenings and weekends, Im busy. Its either a holiday or a birthday seems like all the time. Its hard to find the time to deep condition and protein condition, cuz its gotta be clean hair so that means a whole shower first. And I dye every third weekend on top of it, so thats an extra hour just for that. Then experiment and then wait three more days to experiment with something else, then three days and change that....ugh. I watch tutorials and cant believe people have time to section and apply and do that 5, 10 times, and then air dry....I never have that kind of time, Ive got places to go! OK Im finished venting.

    I can get oil prewashes in tho, Ill just slather my hair in coconut oil overnight if i know the next morning is a wash day, that only takes 5 minutes.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • BeinDebBeinDeb Posts: 583Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Ttoosday, what oils have you tried? Last Winter, I started putting my oil on straight out of the shower prior to using anything else while it's wet but not dripping (I used JBCO). Currently, I'm swearing by a mix of JBCO and Avocado oil. As that was the only thing I was doing differently, I know it made all the difference. I smooth it on throughout and then squish it in good (my hair is a sponge). It doesn't take much, although I will up the amount if the dew points are low. Applying oil any other time, say as the last step to seal or even after a leave-in before gel, does not work as well for me, and actually will give me frizz much quicker.

    Then, after any product I use, my last step is to seal with a pomade (anti-humectant). As my hair is so porous, my struggle is to keep that moisture in. I've discovered pomade is a neccessity be it high or low dew points.

    Using the oil first thing has helped my hair more than anything. It's getting better and better. In fact I had a major hair milestone or maybe I should say Miracle this last washing. I used nothing but the JBCO mix out of the shower followed by the pomade as an experiment. I conditioned with the GVP balm (squish to condish) after a protein conditioner. I didn't even use gel!! I thought for sure after it dried and the minute I floofed it a bit, it would be a frizz ball. NOT! It was just like with leave-ins and gel although much lighter and curlier. I was in shock! Never in a million years would I have thought I could go without some weight, not to mention more hydration on my hair!

    However, I should qualify this by saying that I did try a new shampoo..."Dr. Bonner's 4 in 1 Sugar Peppermint Organic Pump Soap," which was amazeballs by the way. Actually, now that I think about it, that's the reason I tried not using any products. After I applied the JBCO mix out of the shower, my hair was clumping and hydrated just as though I had put all other products in! I'm on day 3 now, using nothing but my spritz mix (currently water, OAVG, & oil mix) in the morning, and my hair is remarkably behaving. I can't wait to try it again to see if it was just a momentary planet alignment or something conrete! Usually I wash after day 3, but currently, my hair's so good, I may wait until day 4. Sorry if I'm gushing, I'm just so amazed! I haven't been this excited since I figured out my hair was curly and not just a frizz ball!
    :blob6::blob6::blob6::blob6:
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    BeinDeb wrote: »
    Ttoosday, what oils have you tried? Last Winter, I started putting my oil on straight out of the shower prior to using anything else while it's wet but not dripping (I used JBCO). Currently, I'm swearing by a mix of JBCO and Avocado oil. As that was the only thing I was doing differently, I know it made all the difference. I smooth it on throughout and then squish it in good (my hair is a sponge). It doesn't take much, although I will up the amount if the dew points are low. Applying oil any other time, say as the last step to seal or even after a leave-in before gel, does not work as well for me, and actually will give me frizz much quicker.

    Then, after any product I use, my last step is to seal with a pomade (anti-humectant). As my hair is so porous, my struggle is to keep that moisture in. I've discovered pomade is a neccessity be it high or low dew points.

    Using the oil first thing has helped my hair more than anything. It's getting better and better. In fact I had a major hair milestone or maybe I should say Miracle this last washing. I used nothing but the JBCO mix out of the shower followed by the pomade as an experiment, although I did condition with the GVP balm (squish to condish) after a protein conditioner. I didn't even use gel!! I thought for sure after it dried and the minute I floofed it a bit, it would be a frizz ball. NOT! It was just like with leave-ins and gel although much lighter and curlier. I was in shock! However, I should qualify this by saying that I did try a new shampoo..."Dr. Bonner's 4 in 1 Sugar Peppermint Organic Pump Soap," which was amazeballs by the way. Actually, now that I think about it, that's the reason I tried not using any products. After I applied the JBCO mix out of the shower, my hair was clumping and hydrated just as though I had put all other products in! I'm on day 3 now, using nothing but my spritz mix (currently water, OAVG, & oil mix) in the morning, and my hair is remarkably behaving. I can't wait to try it again to see if it was just a momentary planet alignment or something conrete! Usually I wash after day 3, but currently, my hair's so good, I may wait until day 4. Sorry if I'm gushing, I'm just so amazed! I haven't been this excited since I figured out my hair was curly and not just a frizz ball!
    :blob6::blob6::blob6::blob6:

    Well, I just recently decided to start trying LOC or OLC or CLO or OL or OC or just O or any/all of the the combinations haha. But Ive only tried two or three times so far, again, the time is an issue.

    I had coconut and EVOO at home, and I bought grapeseed, and canola oil. So, I have a range in penetration levels. I have tried all the oils. Coconut I use for pre poos, and theres so much coconut in my products that I try not to overload in it, honestly. I have tried strictly LOC, Ive tried LCO, Ive added EVOO to a deep conditioning for an hour. Ive done a protein treament for an hour. I have to admit, nothing seemed to change at all. I might have gotten a tiny bit of softness after one of those attempts, but nothing wowed me. I couldnt tell a difference between any of the three liquid oils.

    Im really kinda confused about the oils, and I have an email in to goosefootprints to explain a bit more about using oils with hydrating. I understand the basic concept but i have some deeper concerns that Im waiting to hear back on. I shall also try to do oil first thing before leave-in, I havent tried that yet. And squish to condish. Sounds like it works great for you!

    So, should i expect that using the oils will show improvement over time, instead of immediately then? Ive been wondering about that.

    I hope you have stumbled upon a new miracle routine! It definitely sounds amazing. I am scared to try to few products, I dont even know why. I guess Im so convinced Im so dry and porous that I need ALL the film formers, ALL the emollients, ALL the slip at each and every step. But I have been doing that for how long? A year and a half? And im still dry. So i think the liquid oils applied straight to the hair might be the key versus trying to rely on them in product only (and maybe proteins eeeek) but again, Im not seeing anything overly amazing yet.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • curlynccurlync Posts: 219Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ttoosday wrote: »
    Yes, thats exactly what mine said! I do tend to like using a leave-in but honestly, I've never NOT used a leave-in, so...I could try it. I have been using a tiny dab of KC Knot Today for the marshmallow and slippery elm because it seriously detangles. But Ive decreased the amount to like you say, a legit pea size. I am going crazy spreadsheeting everything to determine what is in what product and how to get the most and best ingredients for my hair into the smallest number of products for my routine - and making sure to stay glyerin/prop glycol free. And since I'd been dodging protein, I'm having to buy new products with amino acids or hydro proteins in it to experiment.

    I overload on conditioner in the shower, but I dont do the squish method that you seem to be describing. I can try that. What conditioner do you squish in (does it have ff hums, AND emolls, AND oils AND cationic condishes all combined?)

    I hear ya on the time crunch situation. I work full time, and on evenings and weekends, Im busy. Its either a holiday or a birthday seems like all the time. Its hard to find the time to deep condition and protein condition, cuz its gotta be clean hair so that means a whole shower first. And I dye every third weekend on top of it, so thats an extra hour just for that. Then experiment and then wait three more days to experiment with something else, then three days and change that....ugh. I watch tutorials and cant believe people have time to section and apply and do that 5, 10 times, and then air dry....I never have that kind of time, Ive got places to go! OK Im finished venting.

    I can get oil prewashes in tho, Ill just slather my hair in coconut oil overnight if i know the next morning is a wash day, that only takes 5 minutes.

    I could get the time for longer oil pre-poos if I did it at night like you do. Lately I've been washing my hair at night though, so I don't have to deal with it in the morning. Plus my boyfriend already has to deal with all my weird hair routines (like walking around in my plop) - I don't feel like going to bed with my head wrapped in plastic now too :)

    As for my conditioner, I use CJ Argan & Olive Oil. I just wish they sold it in the larger liter sizes because I go through a lot and it's not cheap, but it's my favorite to date of all the conditioners I've tried. One way I've managed to use a bit less during my last few washes though was by using KCKT first, so I detangle with that before conditioning.
    Yes, the CJ A&OO does have film forming humectants, emollients and oils. I don't know about the cationic ingredients though - I remember reading about those in my analysis, but don't recall what ingredients to look for. What would those be? Here is the ingredients list:
    Water, Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Juice, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetyl Esters, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Argania Spinosa (Argan) Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Virgin Coconut) Oil, Panthenol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Yucca Leaf Extract, Equisetum Arvense (Horsetail) Leaf Extract, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Leaf Extract, Piperita (Peppermint) Leaf Extract, Melissa Officinalis (Melissa) Leaf Extract, Propylene Glycol, Iodopropylnyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance, Citric Acid.

    Oh, and as for protein, I really like CJ Repair Me! I use it whenever my curls are starting to look a bit limp or lifeless and could use a boost. It's also very moisturizing so you don't need to follow it up with a separate conditioning treatment. Here's the ingredients on that one:
    Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Hydrolyzed Keratin Protein, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Panthenol, Keratin Amino Acids, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Glyceryl Stearate, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Glycol Stearate, Prunus Armeniaca (Apricot) Kernel Oil, Cetyl Alcohol, PEG-100 Stearate, Tocopherol Acetate, Citric Acid, Disodium EDTA, Fragrance, Propylene Glycol, Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate.
    2c/3a
    Porosity: low at roots; normal mid-shaft; high at ends
    Texture: mix of medium & coarse
    Density: medium


    Low-Poo: Jessicurl Gentle Lather; CJ Gentle Cleansing
    RO: GVP Conditioning Balm; Innersense Color Radiance
    Stylers: MT Curly Custard; CHS Curl Keeper; UFD Curly Magic; Innersense I Create Volume

    Occasional use: CJ Repair Me; Elucence Volume Clarifying Shampoo

    CG (or mod CG since I low-poo?) since June 2015
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    curlync wrote: »
    ttoosday wrote: »
    Yes, thats exactly what mine said! I do tend to like using a leave-in but honestly, I've never NOT used a leave-in, so...I could try it. I have been using a tiny dab of KC Knot Today for the marshmallow and slippery elm because it seriously detangles. But Ive decreased the amount to like you say, a legit pea size. I am going crazy spreadsheeting everything to determine what is in what product and how to get the most and best ingredients for my hair into the smallest number of products for my routine - and making sure to stay glyerin/prop glycol free. And since I'd been dodging protein, I'm having to buy new products with amino acids or hydro proteins in it to experiment.

    I overload on conditioner in the shower, but I dont do the squish method that you seem to be describing. I can try that. What conditioner do you squish in (does it have ff hums, AND emolls, AND oils AND cationic condishes all combined?)

    I hear ya on the time crunch situation. I work full time, and on evenings and weekends, Im busy. Its either a holiday or a birthday seems like all the time. Its hard to find the time to deep condition and protein condition, cuz its gotta be clean hair so that means a whole shower first. And I dye every third weekend on top of it, so thats an extra hour just for that. Then experiment and then wait three more days to experiment with something else, then three days and change that....ugh. I watch tutorials and cant believe people have time to section and apply and do that 5, 10 times, and then air dry....I never have that kind of time, Ive got places to go! OK Im finished venting.

    I can get oil prewashes in tho, Ill just slather my hair in coconut oil overnight if i know the next morning is a wash day, that only takes 5 minutes.

    I could get the time for longer oil pre-poos if I did it at night like you do. Lately I've been washing my hair at night though, so I don't have to deal with it in the morning. Plus my boyfriend already has to deal with all my weird hair routines (like walking around in my plop) - I don't feel like going to bed with my head wrapped in plastic now too :)

    As for my conditioner, I use CJ Argan & Olive Oil. I just wish they sold it in the larger liter sizes because I go through a lot and it's not cheap, but it's my favorite to date of all the conditioners I've tried. One way I've managed to use a bit less during my last few washes though was by using KCKT first, so I detangle with that before conditioning.
    Yes, the CJ A&OO does have film forming humectants, emollients and oils. I don't know about the cationic ingredients though - I remember reading about those in my analysis, but don't recall what ingredients to look for. What would those be? Here is the ingredients list:
    Water, Aloe Barbadensis (Aloe Vera) Leaf Juice, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Cetyl Esters, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Argania Spinosa (Argan) Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Virgin Coconut) Oil, Panthenol, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Yucca Leaf Extract, Equisetum Arvense (Horsetail) Leaf Extract, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Leaf Extract, Piperita (Peppermint) Leaf Extract, Melissa Officinalis (Melissa) Leaf Extract, Propylene Glycol, Iodopropylnyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance, Citric Acid.

    Oh, and as for protein, I really like CJ Repair Me! I use it whenever my curls are starting to look a bit limp or lifeless and could use a boost. It's also very moisturizing so you don't need to follow it up with a separate conditioning treatment. Here's the ingredients on that one:
    Water, Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Hydrolyzed Keratin Protein, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Panthenol, Keratin Amino Acids, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Glyceryl Stearate, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Glycol Stearate, Prunus Armeniaca (Apricot) Kernel Oil, Cetyl Alcohol, PEG-100 Stearate, Tocopherol Acetate, Citric Acid, Disodium EDTA, Fragrance, Propylene Glycol, Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate.

    Haha I feel the same about my husband, he's out trying to fix the car, and I'm out there like "cuz you know, coarse strands, and protein, i need emollients, listen to this about sealing oil, im going to CVS for a conditioner, need anything?.....YOU WILL LISTEN TO WHAT I KNOW!" Haha.

    OOh ya the higher dollar stuff...eeeeh i stick to drugstore products. Actually, thats probably my problem. I should really consider other options like the CJ stuff.

    For the cationic condishes, my analysis says those provide detangling and reduce friction. In the ingredients you listed, the cationic conditioner is behentrimonium methosulfate, its in both products. Other cat condishes are (sp? on some of these):
    behentrimonium methosulfate
    behenalkonium chloride
    dicetyldimonium chloride
    distearyldimonium chloride
    combinations of these ingred with cetrimonium chloride
    ployquaternium 44, 45, 55
    guar hydropropyltrimonium chloride (can build up easily)
    hydroxypropyltrimonum preceding honey or preceding a protein
    cetrimonium bromide
    cetrimonium chloride
    and 'cones.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • BeinDebBeinDeb Posts: 583Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Don't give up! I've been at this for 2 years (Feb. 2014) and have come so close, so many times to just giving up. Most recently, when Spring got here and the dewpoints were up and down like a yo-yo. I do understand the time thing - I diffuse quite regularily. Things like my "miracle" the other day keep me going. When I look back, I realize that over 2 years ago, I didn't know I had curly hair. The yard stick shows, I've barely started on the path to having my hair be the best it could be without having to heat and beat it into semi-submission.

    I suspect squishing any product in, is key. My hair is like a sponge. If you run water over an actual sponge, until it gets some saturation, most of it will just run off. I suspect porous hair has the same quality. If your not squishing in your products now, doing that may make a HUGE difference for you.
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    BeinDeb wrote: »
    Don't give up! I've been at this for 2 years (Feb. 2014) and have come so close, so many times to just giving up. Most recently, when Spring got here and the dewpoints were up and down like a yo-yo. I do understand the time thing - I diffuse quite regularily. Things like my "miracle" the other day keep me going. When I look back, I realize that over 2 years ago, I didn't know I had curly hair. The yard stick shows, I've barely started on the path to having my hair be the best it could be without having to heat and beat it into semi-submission.

    I suspect squishing any product in, is key. My hair is like a sponge. If you run water over an actual sponge, until it gets some saturation, most of it will just run off. I suspect porous hair has the same quality. If your not squishing in your products now, doing that may make a HUGE difference for you.

    You're very encouraging, and just when I need it! Thank you for the input and suggestions. Im glad this forum is here!
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • BeinDebBeinDeb Posts: 583Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    You CAN do this. Like everything else, the only requirement is faith. Humor. Humor will help you tremendously. You're a mad scientist figuring out your hair. It's only hair, girlfriend. We cut it. We heat it up. We do everything and anything to "train it". Think of it as your own eternal, restless Spirit in the here and now. It's going to rebel by some of the decisions you make, and it will purr like a kitten when you're on the right path.
  • curlynccurlync Posts: 219Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ttoosday wrote: »
    Haha I feel the same about my husband, he's out trying to fix the car, and I'm out there like "cuz you know, coarse strands, and protein, i need emollients, listen to this about sealing oil, im going to CVS for a conditioner, need anything?.....YOU WILL LISTEN TO WHAT I KNOW!" Haha.

    OOh ya the higher dollar stuff...eeeeh i stick to drugstore products. Actually, thats probably my problem. I should really consider other options like the CJ stuff.

    For the cationic condishes, my analysis says those provide detangling and reduce friction. In the ingredients you listed, the cationic conditioner is behentrimonium methosulfate, its in both products. Other cat condishes are (sp? on some of these):
    behentrimonium methosulfate
    behenalkonium chloride
    dicetyldimonium chloride
    distearyldimonium chloride
    combinations of these ingred with cetrimonium chloride
    ployquaternium 44, 45, 55
    guar hydropropyltrimonium chloride (can build up easily)
    hydroxypropyltrimonum preceding honey or preceding a protein
    cetrimonium bromide
    cetrimonium chloride
    and 'cones.
    Thanks for the help on the ingredients that make a condish cationic! I knew it was somewhere in my analysis but couldn't find it.

    If you're used to drug store products, you might not want to make that leap to CJ conditioners as a daily conditioner - it will get expensive. However, I would definitely recommend giving the CJ Repair Me a shot for some added protein. Even though it's pricey, it lasts a while since you won't need to use it that often - I use it when I have a few bad hair days in a row and nothing else is working. In the fall and winter, I probably only used it once every couple of months. Too soon to tell if I'll need it more often in the summer.

    I hope you come back to let us know what Wendy says about the oils when you hear back. I'd love to know myself since I only started experimenting with them recently, and as a fellow coarse-haired girl, I'd be interested in her recommendations.
    2c/3a
    Porosity: low at roots; normal mid-shaft; high at ends
    Texture: mix of medium & coarse
    Density: medium


    Low-Poo: Jessicurl Gentle Lather; CJ Gentle Cleansing
    RO: GVP Conditioning Balm; Innersense Color Radiance
    Stylers: MT Curly Custard; CHS Curl Keeper; UFD Curly Magic; Innersense I Create Volume

    Occasional use: CJ Repair Me; Elucence Volume Clarifying Shampoo

    CG (or mod CG since I low-poo?) since June 2015

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