Curl pattern loosened from 3's to 2's... now I don't know how to handle it!

kcadams1980kcadams1980 Posts: 10Registered Users
Hi all -

I've been off the CG bandwagon for awhile - well, not totally - I've kept to low-poos like Loreal cleansing condish, and their Evercurl sulfate free poo if I'm feeling build up. I was using some cones - aveda be curly for awhile.

The past few years (I'm 35 now, fyi), I've noticed my curls have loosened from 3a/b (never ever had to "coax" curl) to 2c with 3a underneath. Discovered my hair is low porosity, med-fine texture, med-high density (though I'm a bit less certain how to determine this one). I've been coloring my hair - deposit only to match my natural med copper brown shade with 10 vol developer - since college. I started going grey SUPER EARLY and felt like it was a necessity. I still do, and recently had some highlights put in (with olaplex) to blend better with the white roots when they come. Oh yes, and my hair is pretty short now - an inverted bob.

Anyhow, I feel like maybe my hair is damaged, and I'd like to see if there's anything I can do to help the moisture get back into it (especially the top). I'm also a bit stuck on styling - I used to plop with re:coil and a cone-free gel (rockin ringlets and deva probably) when my hair was long and curlier. Now that doesn't work too well... It seems like the "curl enhancing" cremes all make my hair LESS curly now. But when I just use a gel (deva light right now) + bit of leave in (shea moisture leave in), I'm not getting much softness... And I have to diffuse - my hair takes a million years to air dry with product in, and I don't care for how it looks air dryed.

I'm going to use the Olaplex No 3 tonight - pretty excited about that.

I'm also confused about protein - some articles say low porosity and protein don't mix, others the opposite. I understand I need to "open the cuticle" to receive the moisture but not sure how to do that (other than heat). Baking soda? Sounds crazy, but I'll try whatever!

Thoughts?

Thanks all :)

Comments

  • Therese1Therese1 Posts: 2,560Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I don't have any experience with damaged or colored hair, so I'll respond to bump your thread so that perhaps you get some replies. :)

    I wouldn't use baking soda, though...that can damage the hair because the pH is so high. I think most people open the cuticle with heat, just in the shower. I just wet my hair, put on my conditioner, and then put on a shower cap while I'm still in the shower. Sometimes I stand with my head under the water flow then, to add even more heat. I would make sure that you clarify before doing this, to make sure that there is no build-up to interfere.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • Corrina777Corrina777 Posts: 3,204Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I'm slightly confused. If your hair is damaged, it's not going to be low porosity. The definition of damage is that you've chipped away at the protective layer (cuticle) of your hair.

    Certain curl patterns (especially around the 3a mark) will look very different at different lengths. Often 3a curls need length to show the full curl pattern, so the shorter cut could be what's behind your curls looking weaker.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    3a/f/iii
    Modified CG since 11/5/11
    CLEANSE: CJ Daily Fix, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
    RO: SS Caitlin's Conditioner, CJ Beauticurls Strengthening
    LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
    STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier,Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
  • Alyssa.GodfrAlyssa.Godfr Posts: 65Registered Users
    I agree. If you've been coloring your hair a lot, it's probably very porous, especially if you've been covering grays. You'd need to strip your hair's natural color first, which requires color containing peroxide ("permanent" color as opposed to "semi-permanent," or deposit-only color). It's easy to mistake your hair's porosity. The float test and things like that aren't always accurate. It's better to just see how your hair behaves and how "thirsty" it seems. If it seems to be soaking up every drop of water or product like a desert floor, it's probably quite porous. Maybe it's more porous on the top than the bottom, which could be why the curl is looser there.

    My hair is super porous and if it doesn't have a ton of moisture it gets pretty straight, especially on top. Maybe try more moisturizing products?

    I'm going to try the sprits to condish method I read about recently, which basically involves putting conditioner in damp hair for five minutes before you shower and then just rinsing and lo-pooing or co-washing the roots. Then pretty much squish to condish the ends after that. It's supposed to make hair retain a bit more moisture by preventing it from soaking up tons of water that then prevents it from soaking up the conditioner. Maybe try that?
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Hi all -

    I've been off the CG bandwagon for awhile - well, not totally - I've kept to low-poos like Loreal cleansing condish, and their Evercurl sulfate free poo if I'm feeling build up. I was using some cones - aveda be curly for awhile.

    The past few years (I'm 35 now, fyi), I've noticed my curls have loosened from 3a/b (never ever had to "coax" curl) to 2c with 3a underneath. Discovered my hair is low porosity, med-fine texture, med-high density (though I'm a bit less certain how to determine this one). I've been coloring my hair - deposit only to match my natural med copper brown shade with 10 vol developer - since college. I started going grey SUPER EARLY and felt like it was a necessity. I still do, and recently had some highlights put in (with olaplex) to blend better with the white roots when they come. Oh yes, and my hair is pretty short now - an inverted bob.

    Anyhow, I feel like maybe my hair is damaged, and I'd like to see if there's anything I can do to help the moisture get back into it (especially the top). I'm also a bit stuck on styling - I used to plop with re:coil and a cone-free gel (rockin ringlets and deva probably) when my hair was long and curlier. Now that doesn't work too well... It seems like the "curl enhancing" cremes all make my hair LESS curly now. But when I just use a gel (deva light right now) + bit of leave in (shea moisture leave in), I'm not getting much softness... And I have to diffuse - my hair takes a million years to air dry with product in, and I don't care for how it looks air dryed.

    I'm going to use the Olaplex No 3 tonight - pretty excited about that.

    I'm also confused about protein - some articles say low porosity and protein don't mix, others the opposite. I understand I need to "open the cuticle" to receive the moisture but not sure how to do that (other than heat). Baking soda? Sounds crazy, but I'll try whatever!

    Thoughts?

    Thanks all :)

    KEEP using the Olaplex step 3. Use it overnight. It has really given my hair some bounce and strength. I'm 2a and it has really strengthened my wave pattern. Keep going ahead on that.

    If your hair doesn't get strawlike or mushy it's ok with protein. You can wrap your head and sit under a little heat with a protein treatment on if you want it a little stronger. IMO Olaplex acts a lot like protein treatments do on other people Not sure you need to do both, at least not DEEP protein treating like with heat.

    I've had amazing success with Curl Junkie Coffee Cocoa Curl Creme lite. Honestly, your problem *might* be more how you apply the products as opposed to what you are using. When your curl lessens, you can't do as much pulling and raking etc or it just pulls it out. You might also experiment putting product in super wet hair, and then the opposite, scrunch out excess water and then try applying product. I actually have to change that up depending on time of year. Or sometimes by product. You might also try a mousse product. I can HIGHLY recommend Sweet Curls Elixir foam on Etsy. It's new, and it is quite strong hold for a mousse but not producty. On the ground you could try Deva foam (I can only get that to feel non-producty if I use Deva Supercream under it, but then it's pretty nice). Tresemme sea foam with a gel is pretty nice. And you might try switching out your gel. High end, I like iHold by Innersense but on the ground you could try Biosilk Rock Hard Gel (at Ulta). I'm still looking for another magic gel to replace Volumax Mega that Naturelle used to make. I still actually have not found one to match it. iHold comes close. (I have also heard iVolume works amazingly and I love their Whipped Texturizer under ge.).

    How do you normally apply product?
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    This is why I am loving the Olaplex Step 3. I never wake up to hair like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QFy9enn5a4&feature=youtu.be
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Chupie, thanks for the heads up about SCE foam. I had no idea she came out with a new product. I'm not supposed to be spending any $$$ right now, but boy, my inner product junkie doesn't care. :)

    You mentioned it having strong hold. Did you add in PVP or is it strong hold without that?

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I didn't add anything. I'd say it's a good medium hold. Add pvp for some oomph. I just got the product with no add ins so I could see what it was like.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • kcadams1980kcadams1980 Posts: 10Registered Users
    The olaplex is BOMB - at least that's my initial take. Is doing the treatment 1x/week too much? Also, is the Olaplex stuff "protein?" I can't really tell just by reading the ingredients. If it IS, my hair seems to like it... Anyone know if you can get the legit 3 step system online? I'd like to try it when I just do my roots (trying to convert fully to Robert Craig, will consult the coloring board on this!), or maybe just the 2 & 3 since I never do any lightening myself.

    I've been experimenting a bit this last week and I think somethings I was using were too heavy. I always shower at night (during the week anyway), b/c I run after work. I've been using loreal evercurl cleansing condish - but open to suggestion on that. I use a leave in at night (shea moisture leave in), and in the morning just stick my head under the tub faucet to fully wet my hair, then apply about a quarter sized amount of deva lite gel mixed with a tiny smidge of the GF clean gel (just to give a little extra hold). I rake the product through when wet, then squeeze gently with a microfiber towel and scrunch a bit more after I flip my head over. Let it be while I put my makeup on and get dressed, then diffuse (I started doing it on the medium speed setting vs high, seems to hold the curl patter better and I can do it with my hair this short). I was originally using a dot of that shea moisture leave in with my product, but I think my curl looked more defined without it.Is it really ESSENTIAL to use a leave-in? If so, I think i'd need a much lighter weight version that the shea...

    The mousse thing is something I've tried a lot (makes sense - I want as much volume as possible, I'm a Texan! lol), but it's always left my hair stringy when i use it to style curly...

    Thanks for the info on porosity - I did that strand test (and my hair floated all day) - but I was surprised as well, as I figured chemically treated hair would be MORE porous... Bah! Confusing.

    I'm actually liking the way my hair is looking now - I actually think the short cut is flattering with the looser curl (though, since the olaplex, my curl has actually gotten tighter). The only thing I'd like is more shine, softness (but without losing my volume/curl). Do I need to go back to cowashing for this?

    Jesus, I'm incapable of posting anything short... Thanks y'all for the great suggestions.
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Olaplex is not protein. It's some kind of fusing compound is the best I know to describe it. I know there are articles out there. IMO it acts like what people expect protein treatments to but it is not a protein. It's some proprietary agent they developed.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • Alyssa.GodfrAlyssa.Godfr Posts: 65Registered Users
    chupie wrote: »
    Olaplex is not protein. It's some kind of fusing compound is the best I know to describe it. I know there are articles out there. IMO it acts like what people expect protein treatments to but it is not a protein. It's some proprietary agent they developed.

    Chupie, can I just say you are a godsend to the loose wavies. You always know the struggle haha. Do you think that Olaplex stuff is better at making the wave pattern stronger than a protein treatment would be, or are they about the same?
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    chupie wrote: »
    Olaplex is not protein. It's some kind of fusing compound is the best I know to describe it. I know there are articles out there. IMO it acts like what people expect protein treatments to but it is not a protein. It's some proprietary agent they developed.

    Chupie, can I just say you are a godsend to the loose wavies. You always know the struggle haha. Do you think that Olaplex stuff is better at making the wave pattern stronger than a protein treatment would be, or are they about the same?

    It is for me. Protein does not seem to do much of anything for me, but just the step 3 over night of the Olaplex seems to have made my wave stronger. Now it's not Unicorn pee or anything, but it seems a good solid product.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • Alyssa.GodfrAlyssa.Godfr Posts: 65Registered Users
    chupie wrote: »
    chupie wrote: »
    Olaplex is not protein. It's some kind of fusing compound is the best I know to describe it. I know there are articles out there. IMO it acts like what people expect protein treatments to but it is not a protein. It's some proprietary agent they developed.

    Chupie, can I just say you are a godsend to the loose wavies. You always know the struggle haha. Do you think that Olaplex stuff is better at making the wave pattern stronger than a protein treatment would be, or are they about the same?

    It is for me. Protein does not seem to do much of anything for me, but just the step 3 over night of the Olaplex seems to have made my wave stronger. Now it's not Unicorn pee or anything, but it seems a good solid product.

    :laughing9: :laughing9: Omg I died
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    chupie wrote: »

    Chupie, can I just say you are a godsend to the loose wavies. You always know the struggle haha. Do you think that Olaplex stuff is better at making the wave pattern stronger than a protein treatment would be, or are they about the same?

    It is for me. Protein does not seem to do much of anything for me, but just the step 3 over night of the Olaplex seems to have made my wave stronger. Now it's not Unicorn pee or anything, but it seems a good solid product.

    :laughing9: :laughing9: Omg I died

    😁
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Wait, Chupie, you use the "almost unicorn pee" over night! So you don't wash it out 'til morning? Just want to make sure I've go that right.
    < member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

    [FONT=&quot]Med/high porosity; color treated; med [FONT=&quot]d[/FONT]ensity 2c/3a.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Summer: (high dew point) co-wash [FONT=&quot]& leave-in [/FONT]Matrix Biolage Cleansing Conditioner for Curly Hair[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]Ouidad Climate Control Heat & Humidity Gel.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Spring and Fall: (perfect dew point) co-wash & leave-in Curl Junkie Repair Me! or [FONT=&quot]CJ [/FONT]BeautiCurls Strengthening Hair Conditioner; f[FONT=&quot]ollo[/FONT]wed by [FONT=&quot]CJ Pattern Pusha & [/FONT]Curl Queen.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] W[/FONT]inter: (low dew point) add in [FONT=&quot]CJ [/FONT]Coffee-Coco Curl Creme Lite[FONT=&quot].[/FONT][/FONT]
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    chupie wrote: »
    I didn't add anything. I'd say it's a good medium hold. Add pvp for some oomph. I just got the product with no add ins so I could see what it was like.

    I just tried the SCE volumizing foam today (I got a sample size with PVP) on 2nd day hair and quite like it. It easily brings my curls back to life. Yay! Even when the odd pieces squish weirdly to straightened hair overnight. I can't wait to try it on first day hair tomorrow. Thanks so much for the rec!

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    eche428 wrote: »
    Wait, Chupie, you use the "almost unicorn pee" over night! So you don't wash it out 'til morning? Just want to make sure I've go that right.

    Yep. I rinse out my hair (usually taking a bath) and squeeze out excess water. Put it through and let it air dry. Pineapple over night and wash and Condish like normal in the morning.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    naturecat wrote: »
    chupie wrote: »
    I didn't add anything. I'd say it's a good medium hold. Add pvp for some oomph. I just got the product with no add ins so I could see what it was like.

    I just tried the SCE volumizing foam today (I got a sample size with PVP) on 2nd day hair and quite like it. It easily brings my curls back to life. Yay! Even when the odd pieces squish weirdly to straightened hair overnight. I can't wait to try it on first day hair tomorrow. Thanks so much for the rec!

    That's great! Yeah it's a pretty nice mousse. Creamier than any other I've used.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    chupie wrote: »

    That's great! Yeah it's a pretty nice mousse. Creamier than any other I've used.

    It's quite foamy. I found that it works well for 2nd day hair but for first day I need to be careful to apply only a small amount, and not too soon, or else it pulls out my curl. But it does help make my hair have more volume which I really like, and it also does help cut through the stiffness of my gel (which if too stiff can make my hair bend into weird shapes while diffusing).

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    chupie wrote: »
    eche428 wrote: »
    Wait, Chupie, you use the "almost unicorn pee" over night! So you don't wash it out 'til morning? Just want to make sure I've go that right.

    Yep. I rinse out my hair (usually taking a bath) and squeeze out excess water. Put it through and let it air dry. Pineapple over night and wash and Condish like normal in the morning.


    Thanks so much for this information, Chupie. I got mine in the mail yesterday and did the overnight treatment. My curls look fantastic, super shiny and bouncy! I would never have known about this product without you bringing it up!
    < member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

    [FONT=&quot]Med/high porosity; color treated; med [FONT=&quot]d[/FONT]ensity 2c/3a.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Summer: (high dew point) co-wash [FONT=&quot]& leave-in [/FONT]Matrix Biolage Cleansing Conditioner for Curly Hair[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]Ouidad Climate Control Heat & Humidity Gel.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Spring and Fall: (perfect dew point) co-wash & leave-in Curl Junkie Repair Me! or [FONT=&quot]CJ [/FONT]BeautiCurls Strengthening Hair Conditioner; f[FONT=&quot]ollo[/FONT]wed by [FONT=&quot]CJ Pattern Pusha & [/FONT]Curl Queen.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] W[/FONT]inter: (low dew point) add in [FONT=&quot]CJ [/FONT]Coffee-Coco Curl Creme Lite[FONT=&quot].[/FONT][/FONT]
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Eche, did you use only the step 3 product as well? You guys have got me curious about this...

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • eche428eche428 Posts: 2,782Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    naturecat wrote: »
    Eche, did you use only the step 3 product as well? You guys have got me curious about this...


    Yes, naturecat, I just did step 3. I bought it off eBay. I did another 20 minutes last night just to "be safe." I'll wait now and only do it once a month like the directions state. I must say I do see a difference. I have more shine and my curl pattern seems to have tightened up a bit. Not a lot but a nice amount.
    < member since 2006 (no idea where 1969 came from :toothy10:).

    [FONT=&quot]Med/high porosity; color treated; med [FONT=&quot]d[/FONT]ensity 2c/3a.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Summer: (high dew point) co-wash [FONT=&quot]& leave-in [/FONT]Matrix Biolage Cleansing Conditioner for Curly Hair[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]Ouidad Climate Control Heat & Humidity Gel.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Spring and Fall: (perfect dew point) co-wash & leave-in Curl Junkie Repair Me! or [FONT=&quot]CJ [/FONT]BeautiCurls Strengthening Hair Conditioner; f[FONT=&quot]ollo[/FONT]wed by [FONT=&quot]CJ Pattern Pusha & [/FONT]Curl Queen.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] W[/FONT]inter: (low dew point) add in [FONT=&quot]CJ [/FONT]Coffee-Coco Curl Creme Lite[FONT=&quot].[/FONT][/FONT]
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    eche428 wrote: »
    chupie wrote: »
    eche428 wrote: »
    Wait, Chupie, you use the "almost unicorn pee" over night! So you don't wash it out 'til morning? Just want to make sure I've go that right.

    Yep. I rinse out my hair (usually taking a bath) and squeeze out excess water. Put it through and let it air dry. Pineapple over night and wash and Condish like normal in the morning.


    Thanks so much for this information, Chupie. I got mine in the mail yesterday and did the overnight treatment. My curls look fantastic, super shiny and bouncy! I would never have known about this product without you bringing it up!

    That's great! I just use it every couple of weeks. Like a DT.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • romans5threeromans5three Posts: 9Registered Users
    Are you still using the EverCurl shampoo? If so, what do you think about it? Have you been able to restore your hair? I am having the same problem.
    2c
    mod-CG since 03/19/10
    Co-Wash: V05TT in Vanilla Mint Tea
    Condish: Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle
    Style: HETT Scrunch Gel

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