Kim Davis

scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
What are your thoughts on Kim Davis refusing to issue the marriage licenses for gay couples and then being jailed for it?
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  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Nothing really. She's doing what she believes and being punished according to law, all is normal, lol.

    Christians(conservative) need to wake up though and realize that this is not a completely Christian country and there are going to be conflicts with beliefs. You have to choose your occupation and lifestyle accordingly.
  • CurlyCanadianCurlyCanadian Posts: 10,904Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Connoisseur
    I think it was based on her own prejudices and had nothing to do with religion. She was supposedly offered another job in the office so she wouldn't have to deal with this and wouldn't take it.

    She's been married 4 times, she isn't really that invested in the sanctity of marriage.

    I do think it's weird that was put in jail though, why not just fire her?
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  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 9,777Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Firing her isn't that easy. She is a Federally elected employee. She would have to be impeached. Her being jailed makes her a martyr. I think she should have been fined & asked to step down from her job.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • CurlyCanadianCurlyCanadian Posts: 10,904Registered Users, Curl Ambassador Curl Connoisseur
    Lotsawaves wrote: »
    Firing her isn't that easy. She is a Federally elected employee. She would have to be impeached. Her being jailed makes her a martyr. I think she should have been fined & asked to step down from her job.

    She was voted into the job?
    I believe in manicures. I believe in overdressing. I believe in primping at leisure and wearing lipstick. I believe in pink. I believe that laughing is the best calorie burner. I believe in kissing, kissing a lot. I believe in being strong when everything seems to be going wrong. I believe that happy girls are the prettiest girls. I believe that tomorrow is another day and I believe in miracles.
    Audrey Hepburn
  • Corrina777Corrina777 Posts: 3,204Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    First, let me preface by saying that I vehemently believe that Kin Davis is in the wrong. But I also feel a little sorry for her because it's obvious that she is being used as a fundraising tool by her legal team. Any lawyer worth the paper their JD is printed on knows that she doesn't legally have a leg to stand on, but they've persuaded her to the point of being jailed for contempt of court. Seriously, what legitimate lawyer encourages their client to blatantly defy a court order? She deserves everything she's gotten so far, but those "lawyers" should be investigated and possibly disbarred.
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  • Corrina777Corrina777 Posts: 3,204Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    And she's been released...
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  • wavypenwavypen Posts: 253Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    First quickly, lotsawaves, the judge didn't want to fine her because he believed her political and religious supporters would pay the fines for her, so it wouldn't have any effect on her.

    Also, when Kim Davis is doing her job as county clerk, she is representing the government, the government is not allowed to have religious beliefs as it violates the establishment clause. In her private life she is of course allowed to have whatever beliefs she wants, but at her job she is not a private citizen and doesn't have the same freedom of speech. The ethical thing for her to do would be to resign, since there seems to be no way that she can do her job without violating her beliefs. I can't imagine she's going to go back to work quietly and let her clerks sign the licenses. Also I think it sets a bad precedent, allowing for more government employees to refuse to do their jobs because of their personal beliefs, because in this case and in the case of many other government employees, she is not simply sticking to her own religious belief, she is forcing her religious belief on that entire county, and that is clearly unconstitutional. If she does not resign, she should be impeached, but I doubt that will happen.
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Her argument makes as much sense as this. ImageUploadedByCurlTalk1441738756.459199.jpg
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  • multicultcurlymulticultcurly Posts: 5,136Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I completely agree with everyone who says she should resign. She definitely has a right to her views. I wouldn't be surprised if half of the country believes homosexuality is wrong. However most people, even those opposed to gay marriage and homosexuality, understand that civil rights applies to all Americans, not just those they agree with. This is part of living in a democracy. I agree that she should be impeached. She is also a hypocrite because her multiple marriages are examples that she doesn't honor the sanctity of marriage and probably violate her strict religion.

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  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,231Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Chupie you are hilarious! :toothy10:
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  • claudine191claudine191 Posts: 8,221Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Why is it so often those with so many heterosexual marriages go bonkers over gay marriage? A joke I once heard in re: gay marriage is, "Fine! Let gay people get married! Then they can be as miserable as straight people!"

    Rush Limbaugh, I'm looking at you (and it's not a pretty sight).
  • RimiRimi Posts: 2,001Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Of course, she has the right to maintain her beliefs and to practice her religion. However, if she feels that her governmental duties go against her beliefs, she should step down.

    The Bible even calls for a separation of church and state, so she absolutely has no right to impose her religious beliefs on others.
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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and say she was prbly doing what she thought was the right and honorable thing. But she can't impede the carriage of justice. If this part of her job description conflicted w/ her personal beliefs she should have been able to delegate it to someone else or started looking for another job.

  • DedachanDedachan Posts: 1,644Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Did anyone see this? She has the Westboro Baptish Church protesting against her.

    Here's Why Even The Westboro Baptist Church Doesn't Support Kim Davis
  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 9,777Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    That is one crazy ass church. They probably don't pay taxes either. I dislike that she is being hailed as a hero by some. They played Eye of the Tiger when she was released. I heard the artist is really upset & may sue over it.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • ginabean98ginabean98 Posts: 197Registered Users
    I'm a Christian and I'm shocked at the inherent non-Christianness (as if that's a word :)) of the things that Church is posting. Everyone has a right to their views, and to sharing them. But calling people slurs and derogatory names? Seriously? That makes me angry.
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  • CatitudeBooCatitudeBoo Posts: 590Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I think she should be impeached too but it's unlikely it'll happen. Being so quick to fire people is not the answer anyway. If we fired everyone whose beliefs didn't align with ours, we'd all be unemployed. Besides, unemployed people have to live in some capacity and we don't need more people on the government's payroll.
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  • multicultcurlymulticultcurly Posts: 5,136Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I think she should be impeached too but it's unlikely it'll happen. Being so quick to fire people is not the answer anyway. If we fired everyone whose beliefs didn't align with ours, we'd all be unemployed. Besides, unemployed people have to live in some capacity and we don't need more people on the government's payroll.

    But she wouldn't be impeached because of her views, she would be impeached for not doing an important function of her job and hindering others from doing their jobs. It sounds as if her county changed her job description so that her refusal to approve marriage licenses no longer is a job function of hers.

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  • curlyarcacurlyarca Posts: 8,449Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    She's elected but not "federally". County clerks are locally elected. State elected at most. It's Kentucky's problem.

    I agree, she's a hypocrite.

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  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 9,777Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I read she was Federally elected so couldn't be fired & had to be impeached. Who knows. Our news media is crazy.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • RedSkyRedSky Posts: 24Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    While I'm not Christian she gives a bad name to them because some people will assume they will all do the same thing. I believe she she be fired because she is not suited for the job.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    If she, a government employee, can not seperate issues and do her job she has absolutely no business being there. It's that simple. She is 258% allowed to have her views but she is not legally allowed to oppose them on others thru her job.

    We had a magistrate in my county who is also a preacher. The moment officiating a gay marriage became an option for him, he quit. I honestly found it to be a little over reactive on his part. We have 5 other magistrates and ceremonies are typically planned in advance. He could have worked around it with the others but apparently his feelings on it were that strong. It was actually the responsible thing to do for himself and for others.

    What I do not understand is the urge to force private businesses to bake wedding cakes or do floral arrangements for gay weddings if it is against the owners belief. I see thing as something very different. It's not a government institution and screw them. It's not like there are not other people who would welcome the business with open arms. Who would want a cake baked by someone who believes you're going to hell?
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  • curlisue1curlisue1 Posts: 494Registered Users Curl Novice
    I don't understand why religious people get so worked up about this. Isn't part of their religion also supposed to include compassion and not judging others? I turned away from the church years ago because I felt the people in the church were hypocrites.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Fifi.G wrote: »

    What I do not understand is the urge to force private businesses to bake wedding cakes or do floral arrangements for gay weddings if it is against the owners belief. I see thing as something very different. It's not a government institution and screw them. It's not like there are not other people who would welcome the business with open arms. Who would want a cake baked by someone who believes you're going to hell?

    Bc we have anti-discrimination laws in this country that cover all consumer transactions, as well as gov't functions, education, housing, etc. And gay ppl are protected by many of these laws (tho not always explicitly so).

  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    What I do not understand is the urge to force private businesses to bake wedding cakes or do floral arrangements for gay weddings if it is against the owners belief. I see thing as something very different. It's not a government institution and screw them. It's not like there are not other people who would welcome the business with open arms. Who would want a cake baked by someone who believes you're going to hell?

    If they are just baking a regular cake that they would offer anyone else then how is it different than not serving someone because they are black?
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Josephine wrote: »
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    What I do not understand is the urge to force private businesses to bake wedding cakes or do floral arrangements for gay weddings if it is against the owners belief. I see thing as something very different. It's not a government institution and screw them. It's not like there are not other people who would welcome the business with open arms. Who would want a cake baked by someone who believes you're going to hell?

    If they are just baking a regular cake that they would offer anyone else then how is it different than not serving someone because they are black?

    The two little male (or two little female) figurines on top make it different :laughing6:

  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Josephine wrote: »
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    What I do not understand is the urge to force private businesses to bake wedding cakes or do floral arrangements for gay weddings if it is against the owners belief. I see thing as something very different. It's not a government institution and screw them. It's not like there are not other people who would welcome the business with open arms. Who would want a cake baked by someone who believes you're going to hell?

    If they are just baking a regular cake that they would offer anyone else then how is it different than not serving someone because they are black?

    The two little male (or two little female) figurines on top make it different :laughing6:

    Not that this is the case(I think) but you can't force a bakery to sell a cake that they don't serve lol(for example one with 2 male figurines) or whatever it may be.
  • wavypenwavypen Posts: 253Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I think if someone is buying a basic cake from a bakery (one they make regularly) and they refuse to sell it to someone based on sexual orientation that is discriminatory and wrong and should be illegal, just as it would be for other protected classes. But if people want special, personalized decorations or writing on the cake, then because of the speech issue I don't think it's right to force someone to do that if they disagree with the message, like when that store bakery refused to make a confederate flag cake.
  • multicultcurlymulticultcurly Posts: 5,136Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I don't know what the laws are but I think wavypen is probably correct. Not sure if the lawsuit against that small business owned bakery has been settled. I believe it was in Colorado. However the owner sells wedding cakes but refuses to sell these specific cakes for a gay wedding. Honestly I don't think he can continue to refuse selling wedding cakes to gays since he sells them to heterosexual couples. That is discrimination and is the same as discriminating against someone bssed on race or religion. If he were a religious organization, then he could be protected under the law since homosexuality is not approved by most religions.

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