I need less volume & more definition

BeebopBeebop Registered Users Posts: 457 Curl Novice
Hi Everyone!:wave:
I'm looking for a product that will give my 3a curls less volume & more definition. My hair is so crazy, although most curly hair is...but it looks different each day after I style it and I don't seem to get a lot of consistency. I have 3a fine, porous blonde highlighted medium density hair. But the one problem that drives me crazy on most days is getting too much poofy volume in my hair that grows throughout the day and not as much clumping spirally definition that I occasionally get and love.
I would love a product that left me with defined clumped spirals that are touchably soft since I hate stiff producty feeling hair and that lay more straight & flat & not puff out away from my head.
I usually use Desert essence mango conditioner for a leave in and Condition 3-in1 mousse most days, but have alternated trying my old standby of Biotera gel or curl queen or Biologe mousse plus others and can't seem to find one that gives me what I'm looking for. I stopped plopping for a while now because it made my curls too bouncy and shrinks them up too short and seems to bend them in strange places. Any Ideas???
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Curly in AZ-2c-3a/Cherub/fine-med. texture/high porosity/normal elasticity/highlighted
Wash-Desert essence frizz be gone/ Shea Moosture curl & shine/Biolage keratin dose
Cond-Desert essence frizz be gone/Shea Moosture curl & Shine/ Biolage ultra hydrasource
Leave In- Conditioner large pea size
Stylers- Condition 3-in-1 mousse, Biologe mousse, Shea Moosture silicone free miracle styler leave in treatment, Shaper hairspray for extra hold.:coffee2::coffee:

Comments

  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,355 Curl Connoisseur
    if your hair is porous and i see you live in a dry climate, i'd suggest you try sealing after your leave in. try oils, like grape seed, or sweet almond...... if oils don't work on your hair, try a butter product. with both, a little goes a long way, start out small and you can always add as the day goes on.
    i am not familiar with the products you use, have no idea how moisturizing they are. are you looking for new products?

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • BeebopBeebop Registered Users Posts: 457 Curl Novice
    Thanks Rbb!
    I haven't tried the oils you mentioned but I have tried others and JCNS which always left me with greasy hair no matter how much I used. I'm definitely looking for something new if you have any suggestions? I have always wanted to try curl keeper but shipping is always so expensive, have you used that?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Curly in AZ-2c-3a/Cherub/fine-med. texture/high porosity/normal elasticity/highlighted
    Wash-Desert essence frizz be gone/ Shea Moosture curl & shine/Biolage keratin dose
    Cond-Desert essence frizz be gone/Shea Moosture curl & Shine/ Biolage ultra hydrasource
    Leave In- Conditioner large pea size
    Stylers- Condition 3-in-1 mousse, Biologe mousse, Shea Moosture silicone free miracle styler leave in treatment, Shaper hairspray for extra hold.:coffee2::coffee:
  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,355 Curl Connoisseur
    oils don't work in my hair, but if your hair is porous it might work. here is a link to a great list about different hair oils:
    Science-y Hair Blog: Oils – Which Ones Soak In vs. Coat the Hair?
    i use spiral solutions emollience butter, but her shop is currently closed -- she may or may not reopen in coming months. my second choice of butter product is jane carter solutions nourishing butter?
    i never tired curl keeper. i do use curl junkie CIAB and love it. also, curl junkie beauticurls leaven in works well with fine curlies, lightweight yet emollient to lock in moisture.
    i am sure others will offer other product ideas.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,355 Curl Connoisseur
    it's jane carter nourish and shine. a little goes a very long way. the container will last you a year probably!

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    My gelatin gel gives me very good definition. Apply with gloves for even better definition. It doesn't shrink volume but gives less volume than a mousse. It's protein-ish but since you have cherub curls you'd probably be okay with it. Also a few things that help me with definition are to do long scrunches with my microfiber towel rather than fast scrunches, and also to only use the same spot on the towel so that I'm scrunching with wet material rather than dry. I find these things really keep my clumps intact.

    Edit: Oh yes, +1 on the Jane Carter Nourish and Shine. Kills frizz. I used it when my hair was lo po so it didn't suit my hair at that point but I can see where it would be an excellent product under the right conditions (like porous hair).

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • BeebopBeebop Registered Users Posts: 457 Curl Novice
    Thank you Naturecat & Rbb!
    JCNS never worked for me because it was too heavy, but I'll try some of the other oils I read in the article you sent me Rbb.
    I knew The etsy spiral solution shop closed since I use to use her firm hold gel, bummer!
    I may have to try the curl junkie butter product you mentioned too.
    have either one of you ever sealed with a oil/silicone product? I have a couple different argan oils with silicone and pure argan oil as well as coconut and jojoba and a purple rose oil with silicone too. Since I use a sulfate free organic shampoo it would wash out the silicone so that wouldn't be a problem.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Curly in AZ-2c-3a/Cherub/fine-med. texture/high porosity/normal elasticity/highlighted
    Wash-Desert essence frizz be gone/ Shea Moosture curl & shine/Biolage keratin dose
    Cond-Desert essence frizz be gone/Shea Moosture curl & Shine/ Biolage ultra hydrasource
    Leave In- Conditioner large pea size
    Stylers- Condition 3-in-1 mousse, Biologe mousse, Shea Moosture silicone free miracle styler leave in treatment, Shaper hairspray for extra hold.:coffee2::coffee:
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    BB swears by Jason conditioners (which have a silicone). I used one once and think I liked it (but didn't use it often enough to comment). I used to use some oils to seal but it's been awhile so I can't remember, sorry. Lately I find that just the conditioner in my hair is enough to seal. You may like this link: Squish to Condish - There once was a curl - by Melissa Stites
    I've been using this method for leave in/conditioning and find that my hair is very nicely defined (my only other addition is irish moss water). Before I even scrunch my gel in, the curls are formed and defined.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • Therese1Therese1 Registered Users Posts: 2,563 Curl Virtuoso
    I would suggest some type of sealant also. What has been helping me are the Innersense Whipped Creme Texturizer and the Intelligent Nutrients Styling Pomade. I put a not-quite-dime-sized amount of pomade on my hair after I've added my curl enhancer, and then I put in a nickel-sized amount of the texturizer on top of that. Then I put on my gel as usual.

    I also have found that really conditioning well has been helpful. I have been flattening my hair out during conditioner application, and I think that has been improving the hydration. The Squish to Condish method also seems to help "fill up" the hair with conditioner and moisture so that it isn't lost so readily. I'm still experimenting with it.
    Low poo: Intelligent Nutrients (IN) Harmonic; Oribe Cleansing Creme
    RO: IN Harmonic
    LI: CJ Beauticurls; Jessicurl (JC) Gelebration Spray
    DC: JC Deep Conditioning Treatment; Weleda Rosemary Conditioning Oil
    Stylers: JC Confident Coils; IN Volumizing Spray; IN Perfect Hold Hairspray; John Masters Sea Mist; Bumble Bb. Gel; Kenra Firm-Hold Gel; Sevi Blue Yarrow Sea Salt Spray
    Low-porosity 2a/b baby-fine hair
  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,355 Curl Connoisseur
    beebop -- i've used several oils over the years with mixed results, ranging from horrible to ok. the best one i've tried is apricot kernel oil, not heavy at all. start with a very tiny amount in one hand, rub hands together (it should just very very very lightly coat your hands) then rake your hands through. as you go thru the day, week, you can always increase the amount.

    silicones -- have not tried any but i am not adverse to trying a leave in with amodimethicone in it. the conditioner i've tried were not good quaintly, smelled like a 1950s beauty parlor and the end result was terrible. if i came across a quality conditioner with it in, i'd give it a try.

    have you read the high porosity forum? so you have fine hair which requires a light hand, but a very dry climate. there is a balance you will have to find.
    also, have you been doing protein treatments? they help keep in the moisture.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • BeebopBeebop Registered Users Posts: 457 Curl Novice
    Naturecat- you must be quite the kitchen chemist with the variety of treatments you use! thank you for the article!
    Therese1- I may need to leave in more conditioners like you mentioned because I only use a large pea sized amount, I'll try that too! I'll look at the other sealants you use as well!
    Rbb- I can only do protein treatments on a very rare occasion because they leave me very dry and brittle, probably due to my highlights over the years but now I only get organic color systems highlight/lowlights due to damaged hair from bleach in the past twice! Thank you everyone, time to play with my hair and experiment!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Curly in AZ-2c-3a/Cherub/fine-med. texture/high porosity/normal elasticity/highlighted
    Wash-Desert essence frizz be gone/ Shea Moosture curl & shine/Biolage keratin dose
    Cond-Desert essence frizz be gone/Shea Moosture curl & Shine/ Biolage ultra hydrasource
    Leave In- Conditioner large pea size
    Stylers- Condition 3-in-1 mousse, Biologe mousse, Shea Moosture silicone free miracle styler leave in treatment, Shaper hairspray for extra hold.:coffee2::coffee:
  • BeebopBeebop Registered Users Posts: 457 Curl Novice
    naturecat- I read the article you sent me and tried the squish to condition method and OMG!! I can't believe how clumped and whirly curly my hair looked! I didn't recognize my own hair! Ha Ha! It was almost too curly if thats possible for any of us....I used my Biotera gel which I hadn't used in a while since it said to use a gel and it was so soft and shiny, I just kind of kept scrunching and raked through it a little to pull down on the ends to elongate the curls a little since I just had 2-3 inches cut off it looked more like an off the shoulder bob! definitely didn't have the poofy volume that I hate, just beautiful clumps and curls. I'm thinking it's the large amounts of conditioner left in the hair and not combing through my mousse or gel like I usually do and getting the clumps to form in the shower with water & lots of conditioner and then continuing with the gel, then I scrunched with a micro fiber towel and diffused. Thank you for the article, I'm going to continue experimenting that method with different products and see how it goes...:)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Curly in AZ-2c-3a/Cherub/fine-med. texture/high porosity/normal elasticity/highlighted
    Wash-Desert essence frizz be gone/ Shea Moosture curl & shine/Biolage keratin dose
    Cond-Desert essence frizz be gone/Shea Moosture curl & Shine/ Biolage ultra hydrasource
    Leave In- Conditioner large pea size
    Stylers- Condition 3-in-1 mousse, Biologe mousse, Shea Moosture silicone free miracle styler leave in treatment, Shaper hairspray for extra hold.:coffee2::coffee:
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    So glad it worked out! I am loving that method as well. It was in a link to a page that chupie originally posted, so we can thank her for that. :)

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • BeebopBeebop Registered Users Posts: 457 Curl Novice
    So I've done the squish to condition method the past two days with 2 different conditioners paired with Biotera gel and my hair got thick and frizzy by the afternoon & loses some definition with the frizz. So I tried to seal last night after my conditioner befor my gel with coconut oil & my hair was a greasy mess! Yuck! And I didn't put very much....so I'm still playing with other combos. And trying to find a non-greasy sealer... It doesn't help that we've been having our summer monsoon season here in AZ. With a lot of humidity either..
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Curly in AZ-2c-3a/Cherub/fine-med. texture/high porosity/normal elasticity/highlighted
    Wash-Desert essence frizz be gone/ Shea Moosture curl & shine/Biolage keratin dose
    Cond-Desert essence frizz be gone/Shea Moosture curl & Shine/ Biolage ultra hydrasource
    Leave In- Conditioner large pea size
    Stylers- Condition 3-in-1 mousse, Biologe mousse, Shea Moosture silicone free miracle styler leave in treatment, Shaper hairspray for extra hold.:coffee2::coffee:
  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,355 Curl Connoisseur
    coconut oil was horrible in my hair. try a really light oil first, you can always go up. start with the list from science-yhair blog.
    or, you may have to switch products.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • BeebopBeebop Registered Users Posts: 457 Curl Novice
    rbb- thats why I picked the coconut oil since it was the first on the list to penetrate the hair so I thought it would soak in and not make me greasy...wrong! haha! I have argan oil and jojoba oil too and then some other ones with silicone in them as well.
    Seems like everyone has a different opinion on which oil is the lightest, some say argan some say grape seed....don't want to invest too much money on an oil factory in my house! :)maybe I'll try the apricot kernel oil like you talked about, thank you!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Curly in AZ-2c-3a/Cherub/fine-med. texture/high porosity/normal elasticity/highlighted
    Wash-Desert essence frizz be gone/ Shea Moosture curl & shine/Biolage keratin dose
    Cond-Desert essence frizz be gone/Shea Moosture curl & Shine/ Biolage ultra hydrasource
    Leave In- Conditioner large pea size
    Stylers- Condition 3-in-1 mousse, Biologe mousse, Shea Moosture silicone free miracle styler leave in treatment, Shaper hairspray for extra hold.:coffee2::coffee:
  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,355 Curl Connoisseur
    my hair is medium porosity and it really doesn't do well with oils, some are really bad, others are ok to eh.... i find the lighter ones, the ones that are less likely to be absorbed are better for me, i.e., apricot kernel (which is almost the same as sweet almond, but a bit lighter.) i bought it at whole foods, but many health food stores carry it. if your hair is very porous it might not do well with those that penetrate, are absorbed, might be too much. all you really want is to seal.
    if spiral solutions opens again, and it may, you might want to try her emollience butter.
    remember, very little of any of these products.
    also, sometimes a gel helps seal in, i.e., a serum/gel like cj ciab.
    or some emollient leave in might be good enough, i.e., cj beauticurls leave in.
    it's a process of trial and error.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    For me, I found that using the right amount of conditioner as leave in is what determines my frizz factor. Oils don't always work well for me either (though in a well formulated product, like my conditioner, it works). So if the oils don't work you can always try changing the amount of conditioner you leave in your hair.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • BeebopBeebop Registered Users Posts: 457 Curl Novice
    What conditioner do you use that's moisturizing?
    I need to try this method with my desert essence mango it's just a small 8 oz. Container that I'd go through very fast though...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Curly in AZ-2c-3a/Cherub/fine-med. texture/high porosity/normal elasticity/highlighted
    Wash-Desert essence frizz be gone/ Shea Moosture curl & shine/Biolage keratin dose
    Cond-Desert essence frizz be gone/Shea Moosture curl & Shine/ Biolage ultra hydrasource
    Leave In- Conditioner large pea size
    Stylers- Condition 3-in-1 mousse, Biologe mousse, Shea Moosture silicone free miracle styler leave in treatment, Shaper hairspray for extra hold.:coffee2::coffee:
  • naturecatnaturecat Registered Users Posts: 1,986 Curl Neophyte
    For me, almost any conditioner is moisturizing, as my hair is quite fine. I've used John Masters Lavender and Avocado, Aubrey Organics GPB, and Aubrey JAY (though that one I left in too much and greased up; it's also labeled as being for dry hair). Today I tried Andalou leave in and it was light-ish but not as moisturizing. So the JM and AO GPB have been my two main leave ins since using the squish to condish method. Protein in conditioner is essential for me so as not to weigh down my hair.
    The AO are cheap because WF had a sale where the GPB was like, maybe $5/bottle. The JAY was $9/bottle. JM is expensive.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • LoveliamLoveliam Registered Users Posts: 318 Curl Connoisseur
    oils don't work in my hair, but if your hair is porous it might work. here is a link to a great list about different hair oils:
    Science-y Hair Blog: Oils – Which Ones Soak In vs. Coat the Hair?

    I find that reading what this blog says about my hair type- especially porosity level- really does help me get better definition. I read it over and over again. It is trial and error though in figuring out products that work.
    Leigh :)
    3a mixed with 2C???
    Fine Texture
    Normal to low Porosity
    Low Elasticity

    Mop Top Low Poo or Deva low poo
    Deva One Condition
    Deva B'leave-in for higher dews (Deva Foam for low dews).
    Deva Firm Hold Gel
    HG: Sweet Curls Crazy Curly Hard Hold Elixir after applying Deva and for 2nd/third day.
  • BeebopBeebop Registered Users Posts: 457 Curl Novice
    So I did the squish to condition method with my Biotera gel, curls in a bottle,biolage mousse & condition 3in1 mousse and they all come out a little too curly and stiff and thick and get thicker as the day goes on. I have yet to seal first before any of those, so thats next, but today I Sealed with my purple rose oil silicone serum and then use Tigi S factor moisture serum as my gel and it turned out awesome! Soft, silky,shiny, soft touchable spirals! I guess my hair likes silicones...we'll see how it goes after longer use.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Curly in AZ-2c-3a/Cherub/fine-med. texture/high porosity/normal elasticity/highlighted
    Wash-Desert essence frizz be gone/ Shea Moosture curl & shine/Biolage keratin dose
    Cond-Desert essence frizz be gone/Shea Moosture curl & Shine/ Biolage ultra hydrasource
    Leave In- Conditioner large pea size
    Stylers- Condition 3-in-1 mousse, Biologe mousse, Shea Moosture silicone free miracle styler leave in treatment, Shaper hairspray for extra hold.:coffee2::coffee:

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file