Let's talk about Hulk Hogan (more importantly, reactionary censorship and over reach)
Fifi.G
Registered Users Posts: 15,490 Curl Neophyte
Are you offended that Hulk Hogan used the N Word in a private conversation about who his daughter was sleeping with, that was recorded in his own home, without his knowledge or consent, 8 years ago? Considering that a handful here have been horribly offended over Paula D and Donald S, I am assuming a few are offended by Hulk Hogan but I thought I would ask anyway because I have seen mixed responses in threads here about thoughts & feelings on interracial relationships. I have heard more than a few black women on this forum saying they do not believe in them, period, and I am sure some will have stronger emotions when it comes to their kids. Don't they always? I've watched a few reaction videos and I know some of you watch him so in case you have seen it, Tommy Sotomayors video titled "N****z Are Outraged Because Hulk Hogan Called N****z, N****z... lol." The video addresses this, the racist bone we all have in our bodies, wrestling culture of the 70s & early 80s (which would make these kids cry today) and is absolutely hysterical to boot. Now to rant... I'm a little fed up with the careful media attacks that leak some type of secret footage that deals with private, years old, conversations turning into a moral outrage. I'm more fed up by the reactionary (and then forgotten) public Outrage! Outrage! Now, it's television shows from the late 70s, and early 80s. Things my generation watched that went under attacked by the PC Puritans when we were kids and teens, and here we go again. I have 2 brothers (7 & 9 years older) so wrestling was on my TV every weekend. It was a show full of dramatics, commom street language, over the top fake plots and every stereotype the elite created and still hold on to no matter what they act offended by. The conversation flowed with insults from both people in the ring. Everyone dished it out (like the Jeffersons and All in the Family). That is what made it so loved by so many people. The language in 70s and early 80s wrestling is completely different than what more than half of Gen Y & all of Z hear today, because it was hit by the first PC Push. Now it is being hit by a second puritanical quest because people are so used to over reacting online. I'm not some Hulk Hogan fan (as I am of the General Lee). That is the superficial. What I am is disturbed by people who find it right and noble to attack and erase the past because someone said something in private, 8 years ago. Or because a woman used the N-Word after being robbed and having a gun held to their head 30 years ago. At this point I can't understand why some are not more upset/livid over the strict, self imposed, one sided censorship campaigns that go so far as to invade private conversations in someone's bedroom or a upset reaction after you were threatened with a gun. They won't remain one sided for long, trust me. The 80s & 90s taught us that. It would help if people had not been filled with the notion that black people can not be "racist". It's no where near a definition everyone has grown up with, and not believed by all. It might also help if people quit holding court online for something that is not even a crime. It's an opinion. I don't agree with it. Don't have to.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??
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I think there are some logical fallacies in your presentation of this issue:
1) Being offended by someone's use of the N word is not "an attempt to erase the past."
2) Censorship has nothing to do w/ objecting to racism. No one is saying ppl don't have the right to be racist...but ppl can also disapprove.
3) Verbal insults being hurled by fictional tv characters or sports figures at one another is not the same thing as "institutional racism," which is what most of us object to.
4) Ppl can consider race/ethnicity/religion in dating and relationship decisions w/o dehumanizing and oppressing groups of ppl.
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So you have gone for thought control/thought policing now? How does a private conversation, that no one would have ever heard had it not been for a woman wrongfully recording it, oppressing anyone but the person who can no longer have pillow talk in peace? You can not control how people talk in their own home.
I say erase because their words... They were scrubbing him from history and the hall of fame. It's what is expected now, after the flag and monument hysteria.
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As I typed above, "no one is saying ppl don't have the right to be racist." Ppl can say whatever they want. But other ppl can also object to the content of what they say (without trying to deny them the right to say it).
The private, recorded conversation is not the oppression. But it gives the listener insight as to the speaker's larger views, which suggest the speaker finds the group about whom he is speaking to 1) be separate from himself and also 2) inferior in some way. And when you have ppl w/ high levels of privilege in a given society holding views like that, they manifest in the form of oppression (so the privileged group doesn't risk losing that privilege).
Oh, IDK anything about that. (But oh well, bye. lol)
If white people refrain from ever using this word, they can't get "caught" later in situations that cause embarrassment and ruin their livelihoods. It's just a better idea to never let that word cross your lips, in my opinion.
The good news is that this means is that people are becoming more aware, more respectful or at the very least more cautious of how they appear in public
See,' this is the thing. Only a tiny minority (talking population) of the public has been educated in these "privileges"/critical theories, which is a privilege in itself. A tiny portion. The overwhelming majority has not, and does not care for it. That turns it into more of a class war. On top of that, not everyone (education or not) believes in it. Many believe these critical theories cause too many problems. This I agree with. I don't find them to be completely correct or in touch with reality. I don't find the altered versions of racism to be accurate or helpful (along with many other people of many other races). It's the traditional progressive way of rejecting reality and making themselves feel better. I find them to be dishonest. The humor has been sucked out of everything, the back and forth flow has been sucked out of everything and you end up with... White people do everything wrong, while not addressing anyone or anything else. That is the current standpoint of the media. Do note, I am talking about the media. If you don't want to buy Hulk Hogans stuff, that's fine, but the faux outrage has reached an extreme that is unhealthy and will reach all of us eventually. I find it funny that there is more outrage over someone saying a word 8 years ago, who's talking about his daughter, than BLM issuing lists of demands to our politicians to demolish all prisons and acting like Mike Browns step dad while yelling, "BURN IT DOWN!!!!" in reference to communities that a majority of black citizens live in. I'm more concerned about that than buying a H.H shirt I, along with most of Black America, has never owned to begin with. That's one thing I liked about Tommy's video. Show me a bleep in a Hulk Hogan head band!! Show me a bleep in a Hulk Hogan t-shirt!!
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Agreed!
To answer the original question, yes. I have an issue with what he said. and your reasoning in your original post only makes me even clearer in my stance.
I watched wrestling every Saturday and even went to go see it a couple of months ago. That doesn't give Hulk Hogan a pass
And as far as the censorship being one sided, well the other side has already decided to say what the heck they wanted
Scrills, I am not talking about giving him a pass. Don't buy his stuff. I don't care if you do or do not buy it. I've never owned any wrestling merchandise and I will not start buying it now. I am talking about the issue of media outrage of things people said in the privacy of their own home 8 years ago. It's Orwellian. Let's not sit here and act like people don't relax and say nasty things, whatever the topic may be, in their own home. He was not running around in public saying it now. He was not offering a list of demands to our government for people to say it. If you choose to not buy his stuff, that is your choice. I just don't know why things like this are even being pushed.
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Who recorded it?
PS... That's what I am saying!! We need to be more upset that it's okay to record people saying crap at home and that the media thinks it's okay to keep putting it out there to get tensions up. *It was a former girlfriend with a vendetta.
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That's the same as "I found out my husband was cheating on me...bc I went thru his phone." They are two separate issues. The phone snooping doesn't negate the cheating. And the cheating doesn't make phone snooping OK. Two separate issues. But ultimately now you know your husband is cheating. And the judge isn't going to deny the divorce petition on the grounds on the snooping.
What's the saying? Ignorance of the law is no defense. And also, if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound? I don't understand the Law of Biogenesis...but guess what? It still exists.
The majority of ppl in the world don't have a flushing toilet but I'm not going to start ****ting in the bushes! LOL
"Critical theories" cause too many problems? For whom? Racists? What about the problems racism causes?
Black, white, yellow, purple, green. Just because someone else is ignorant and saying ignorant things doesn't mean it's ok. Boith are off task. And Im not really sure why blacks were called out specifically in this post.
If the person's reason is racism rather than concerns about possible cultural differences or hostility from the general public, then I'm not too impressed.
No, it was NOT me who cried 'wee wee wee wee wee' all the way home.
Again, why does the media feel the need to reach into people's bedrooms? I'm more concerned with what people are directly saying to politicians or media while pushing an agenda as opposed to what people said in bed, in their own home. Again, doesn't mean I agree with it BUT WHY are they are even bringing stuff like this to light? We know it's a girlfriend with a vendetta who already released a sex tape and was in a lawsuit for it, but I have a different take on the sex tapes. Those are all too common. She obviously has a grudge though.
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To illustrate a point that people say all kinds of crazy stuff in their own homes. (Watch Tommys video. It was pretty funny and discusses his views as a father of a little girl). I'm not comfortable with a world where anyone, regardless of race, feels pressured to never vent or say anything out of line in their own home or any work you have done in the past may be erased from public view. And as I have said, I have seen black women here talk about not being a fan of race mixing, so I am coming from that perspective too. I have seen them be jumped on for it, but at the end of the day it is their opinion.
I personally do not agree with H.H's views or his language BUT I have a much larger problem with media outlets who think it is okay to bring up something a woman said right after having a gun pointed at her head, and call for her to be brought down, 30 years ago and a society who is so caught up in making people pay for private conversations they had years ago. It's become a restricting and hate filled place and it was not that great before.
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The media push to do this and a willingness to follow.
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No, not for racists. For the general public. Since people have recently been taking this in college there have been mass attacks on social media that the media then follows, to the point of releasing pillow talk to have someone wiped off the face of the earth. People restricted from social media because they do not agree with critical theories. They have never had it, nor would they want to after all the drama they have seen.
Just look at the attack mentality you have toward me. Every thread, no matter what I say, no matter how much sense it makes, no matter how many facts come out to back it up. 'Critical Theorists' do nothing but swarm and attack the majority of people on line.
"Die you white male piece of isht, scum!! You can't say you are a Christian! It offends me.... Shut up!!! White prrrriiiiiivvvvvvlage!!!"'
That is dealing most of society has had with critical theorist.
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A few things:
1. The rationale for white people wanting their kids to marry and procreate with other white people is usually not the same as the rationale for people of colour wanting their kids to marry and procreate with their own group.
A person of colour is concerned about continuing the culture/traditions/sometimes religion, about their child not being self-hating or dominated by someone from the dominant group, or the survival of a minority group. A white person has none of these concerns and is motivated by racism.
Note, if a person who is white but is also a member of a distinct group such as Judaism, and they want their child to marry within their own group, this is a totally different situation and the criteria may be much the same as the person of colour's and not necessarily racist. But when the only criteria is that they must be with someone "white", "white" is not a culture or an identity.
2. Lots of groups prefer their kids to marry within their group. Why are you singling out Black people? Black people have high rates of marriage and child-bearing outside the race and are usually accepting of the children and partners, and much more so than other groups.
3. There is nothing wrong in preferring your kid to marry within your group in and of itself. But when you are using racial slurs towards an oppressed minority while expressing those views, this is a problem.
4. Average Joes can and do say this stuff all the time, but public figures are held to a higher standard. They are, or should be, aware that even their private moments in this age of technology could be recorded.
5. Any white person using the N-word should be aware that what they are doing is dangerous and could have severe consequences for them.
6. No one is censoring the Hulk, but people can be disgusted and disappointed in what he said. They can decide they no longer want to put money in his pocket. Companies who want peoples' support can decide association with him is more trouble than it is worth and drop him. This is not censorship. If he wants to be an average Joe with no entertainment contracts he can make racist remarks all he wants.
If a segment of society is becoming more aware of racism, or any other issue, this is great. And if they're using social media to educate others, also great. I don't see a downside.
Racism is not a "critical theory." It is actually experienced, in the real world, when people are gunned down in church by white supremacists or killed by cops over minor offences.
I don't see anyone "attacking" you. People just do not agree with your reactionary, narrow-minded defences of the status quo and sometimes flippant attitude towards issues that cause people much pain. Do you expect everyone to agree with you?
I haven't seen you present that many facts, either - mostly rants or tangents about irrelevancies.
1. I agree with your last statement. If you don't want to buy his stuff, don't buy his stuff but the over reactions are making it hard for people to make this decision in a country where offensive speech is protected. Companies are pulling all merchandise and YouTube channels and ... Furthermore, I am not "singling out black people". I was speaking in reference to my favorite reaction video which I provided the title for, that is by a black man who happens to be my age, grew up watching the WWF at the same time I did, (while my brothers watched) when Hulk and Booker T Washington used to go at it. They had a back and forth with each other that was full of slurs and stereotypes. Hillbilly Jim and the Bush Wackers. The Ugandan Headhunter. On and on. That's what the WWE still does, but not to the extent they used to. It's a fake dialogue, over the top, and play on stereotypes & back & forth. SO a majority of the population is not going to be horribly shocked by hearing specific words coming out of Hulks mouth. They are just not.
2. Not everyone would agree that your point on white people coming from a place of racism is set in stone. The majority of white people do not sit around going... We are the majority and have the most privilege therefore we can not want to keep our race pure because privilege. That is not how the majority of people I know think... In the slightest. I seriously don't think the majority of people sit around thinking about their social status and position when it comes to who they do not want their child to be with... A boyfriend they can not stand. That is not a typical human reaction. It's a gut reaction or a reaction based on things they have witnessed. Yes, some may be driven by racism but others may be driven by things this person has done to their daughter or they know they have done to other girls. Behavior, etc. therefore I can not say the majority of whites or whites in general come at it from racism. They come out of the protective/concerned parent stand point for various reasons. Even if it is the simple fact that they would rather see their child with a person of the same color to preserve their race... Who cares!!!???
3. I think it is absolutely ridiculous to expect all "white" people in the public eye to never say something in private they may offend someone. Again, it's Orwellian. It's a "thought crime" based on the viewers opinion, and all are different. No one wants the type of atmosphere you have in Canada here.
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All PEOPLE in the public eye should be careful about their speech, not just white ones. Prominent people of colour have been caught this way too. Not necessarily for racism, but for other kinds of foolery.
Canada has an Orwellian atmosphere of thought police? Ummmm, OK, that's news to me.
Based on things I have heard from people who moved from Canada... Yes. And you seem pretty Orwellian, Imo.
Again, I'm not saying what he said was fine and dandy but I have no idea why the media is even releasing pillow talk, Period. Especially when it comes to the likes of Hulk Hogan. He's not running around saying stuff to people's faces. He's not on tv saying this, though I seriously would donate to a go fund me to get him to do a commercial where he did (as suggested in the video. it's fine in movie scripts). This is not a good practice, though. It is seriously not a good practice and it opens the door to more and more crap like this for everyone. The media and the publics reaction to this, Paula, Donald, Frat Houses, Confederate Monuments,'etc...'has gotten a new buzz term from people on the web. "Historical Racism Porn". It's something people are climaxing over and the media is a large part of the problem.
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What is the media pushing to do? To arrest him??
Whaaaaaaaaat? LOL.