Do I need a harder hold gel or just more of what I am using??

curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
I like how my hair looks after it dries but as the day progresses the waves become straighter and less defined. It's not frizzy as much as shapeless.

I have a new short haircut and I like it, but having trouble getting consistent results that last. I am using Kinky Curly Leave-in, Curls in a Bottle, mixed with a little Ouidad Climate Control gel and I smooth KCCC on individual strands which makes them shine more. Do I have to buy a harder hold gel?

I will try using more KCCC but wanted your input. How do you make the curls (I don't actually have curls - just waves 2c) last?
2/c Coarse hair med. density.
Highly porous. Color over grey.
I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
Every day is a gift :flower:
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Comments

  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Hold varies from person to person; some need more than others. I use gelatin gel, but that would be too much protein for you. Lots of wavies seem to need more hold, and many use BRHG. There's ecostyler, LA looks, and some others. If you like more naturally based products Max Green Alchemy sculpting gel for extreme hold may work for you. Just noticed you're using a Curl Junkie Product. SOme on here have been liking their Curl Queen gel.
    Your routine, personally, wouldn't have enough hold for me. I tried using Ouidad CC in the past, but I put my gelatin gel over it. Being a fine haired wavy I need lots of hold.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Naturecat, thank you very much for your thoughtful response! I actually x-posted in the general thread because I thought nobody would answer my question because it seems so obvious, but I really wasn't sure what to do. I'm definitely going to buy either BRHG or the Max Green which you suggested.

    I really appreciate that you answered me. I've been on the website for a long time, but I still haven't nailed down my routine - thanks again.
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I'm a work in progress too. I'm so curious as to what BRHG would do for me but the ingredients aren't good for me. Some people have mentioned that two medium hold products, layered can act like hard hold gel. MGA can weigh down my hair if I use it on soaking wet hair because my hair needs protein with everything. Most who use it don't have this problem. I do like using it on 2nd day hair, when my hair is dry and doesn't get weighed down. I take rogue pieces, put a little water and the MGA on it, twirl it and put it in a clip for a few minutes. I get fabulous curl and hold that way. Very few other gels can do that for me.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Interesting! It's amazing how differently all these products behave. I may have to give in to my product junkie and buy both BRHG and MGA. Oh boy, I'm in trouble. :nike:
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Haha, I know. I've recently turned into the biggest PJ on this site. I could make it even worse for you. ;) I really like AO MM on 2nd day hair--smooths the frizz away. Though to be honest, if great hold is your biggest issue, BRHG is the way to go. I'm told it's like cement… you just need a tiny drop.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • corinniePopcorinniePop Posts: 138Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I feel like an idiot, but what does BRHG stand for?

    Sent from my SCH-I435 using CurlTalk App
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    No worries - all these acronyms can be so confusing!!!

    BRHG stands for Biosilk Rock Hard Gelee.

    In the general section there is a big thread in the beginning called Acronyms/Abbreviations/Definitions which lists all these alphabetically and people keep adding to it, so that's where I went to see what BRHG stands for.

    I think I'll get some :walk: - thanks to all who answered :love7:
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,350Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    naturecat wrote: »
    Haha, I know. I've recently turned into the biggest PJ on this site. I could make it even worse for you. ;) I really like AO MM on 2nd day hair--smooths the frizz away. Though to be honest, if great hold is your biggest issue, BRHG is the way to go. I'm told it's like cement… you just need a tiny drop.

    i can vouch for the 'like cement' statement. years ago after reading about it on here i tried BRHG -- holy cow, was totally like cement. i did try it 2 more times with very little, lots of leave in, etc.... but it was too much for my hair. i just tossed it.
    so beware and start out with a tiny amount!

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I might first try LA Looks Sport which has been sitting in my stash forever. I tried it a long time ago but didn't like it, but I'll give it another go. I hate spending money right now on products that don't work.

    Thanks for your helpful input!
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    curlypearl wrote: »
    I like how my hair looks after it dries but as the day progresses the waves become straighter and less defined. It's not frizzy as much as shapeless.

    I have a new short haircut and I like it, but having trouble getting consistent results that last. I am using Kinky Curly Leave-in, Curls in a Bottle, mixed with a little Ouidad Climate Control gel and I smooth KCCC on individual strands which makes them shine more. Do I have to buy a harder hold gel?

    I will try using more KCCC but wanted your input. How do you make the curls (I don't actually have curls - just waves 2c) last?

    to me none of that is very "hold"y. I would need a much harder hold gel over the top. Also to me, CIAB and OCC are kind of the same product. I would choose one or the other of those and then do a bit of KCCC and an HHG. (Hard hold Gel) To experiment you could just pick up some LA Looks Sports Extreme or if you have an Ulta try Biosilk Rock Hard gel. You have 60 days to try it and return it if you don't like it. You can use that and dilute a bit with water, and scrunch it through over the top. A little goes a long way.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Hey Chupie, thanks a lot for responding! Reading your posts with your pictures is what helped me realize I'm a 2, not a 3. I'm a little bit curlier than you so I think I'm a 2c - I have one solitary spiral some of the time in the front.

    I didn't realize that CIAB and OCC were similar! I thought OCC was much stronger - but I actually don't have much reason to think that other than I always use CIAB because it seems to give me more shine than anything else.

    I will definitely try putting a much stronger gel on top and see if that solves the issue.

    RBB - I subscribed to this thread - my first! Thanks to all. :love7:
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    My hair really doesn't need a lot of hold--once I got the protein/moisture balance right. It didn't care for BRHG. I suppose it was all of the chemicals.

    Here's a thread that might be of interest http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/readers-product-reviews/146740-knotty-boy-gel-summer-hg-me.html?highlight=Knotty+Boy If were having a really high dewpoint day, I may add a bit to my jelly product.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Thanks Kathy Mack! I'm not really sure about trying BRHG. I'm going to start with LA Sports since I already have that. It's good to have options.

    You have such pretty hair. I'm having hair envy - ha ha! I always envy the tighter types.
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    CIAB does have nice shine. One day I actually sandwiched it. CIAB HHG CIAB. That came out nice and shiny.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Chupie, what is HHG? I couldn't find it in the list of acronyms.

    Edit: Did you just mean a hard hold gel?
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • CaylynnCaylynn Posts: 117Registered Users
    curlypearl wrote: »
    Chupie, what is HHG? I couldn't find it in the list of acronyms.

    I believe it stands for "hard hold gel" - not a specific gel, but any of the gels that can be considered to have a hard hold.
    Canadian - 2A/2B - chin length, med/avg porosity, medium texture, thick density (but thinning)
    Group fitness instructor & marathon runner - need to wash daily
    Low-poo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Treat
    Co-wash: Tresemmé Naturals
    RO: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Treat, Tresemmé Perfectly Undone, Sukin Protein
    LI: Tresemmé Perfectly Undone, Sukin Protein
    Stylers: Tresemmé Perfectly Undone Sea Foam, Andalou Naturals Sunflower & Citrus Gel, Giovanni Naturals Mousse
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Thanks Caylynn. It took me a while to get that. :nike:
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Sorry! Yes hard hold gel.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • ginabean98ginabean98 Posts: 197Registered Users
    Yah, I would say try a harder hold gel. I like LA Looks sport gel; it could be a cheap one to experiment with. My hair is wavy-curly, and without enough hold it just gets limp throughout the day and shapeless and ewe, as you've said.
    2c/3a, botticelli/s'wavy, thick hair :queen:
    Devacuts 3.5.14, 7.16.15
    CG 9.11.14, on & off for years before
    :sunny:
    GOD really loves you. ∞
    HGs: SM Shampoo, SM conditioners (RO), LA Looks Sport gel
    *I love scalp scrubs, bangs, clipping roots, and diffusing!*
    I wash my hair 1-2 times a week, usually 1
    :cat:
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Ginabean, that's just how I would describe my hair: wavy curly. My hair used to be thick but it has thinned out a little. :hello2:
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • alex.esareyalex.esarey Posts: 34Registered Users
    My 2cents, I use LA Looks Sports gel, but it isn't enough of a hold for me. Mind you, I spend a LOT of time outside as a Waldorf kindergarten teacher, but nonetheless; yesterday, for instance, my hair was droopy within four hours (and I am on summer vacation), but I had walked to/from the library and that minimal time outside done-me-in.

    I just ordered some Biosilk Hard this morning from Ulta to give it a try.
    -2b/2c fine hair, easily weighed down

    Currently using:
    Wash: Deva NoPoo
    RO: Deva One Condition
    Style: Deva Foam & LA Looks Sports Gel

    Dry using a Curlformers Softhood

    Experimenting with Organix Coconut Shampoo and Kinky Curly Custard
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Interesting, Alex. I am just trying LA Looks today - my hair is still wet. My hair is coarse so I don't know how that will work into the equation.

    Thanks for your 2cents!
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Well, I tried LA Sports and immediately got caught in a downpour so I can't state yet whether it works to keep my hair from turning into a giant cotton puffball in humidity.

    Experimenting will continue....
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    The weather is not cooperating. I really want to post back after seeing if using a hard hold gel makes a difference in high dews so naturally, we had a low dew day! :toothy10:

    I need to experiment and the weather isn't cooperating. :banghead:
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,350Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    cp -- i don't know which LAL gel you are using, but i know the sports gel has glycerin high on the list. it dried my hair out in low dews. don't know how it will be in high dews.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • Curls80Curls80 Posts: 526Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I'd try BRHG. Overall, it's such a great hard hold gel. I do find using a leave in underneath does change it slightly, making it not quite as hard. It's pretty reliable.
    3a/3b high porosity, mainly coarse, medium density
    Live in Canada- hot summers, freezing winters- dry dry dry
    As I am cleansing pudding, soultanicals deep condish, curlsmith cowash, lhdc condish 
    KCCC, curlsmith soufflé, ufdcm, mga sculpting gel 
    Scrunch with hair repear towel, then diffuse or air
    Protein- Cnpf
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    rbb, I don't really like the LA sports gel so that is just another reason not to use it. I may chuck it. It seems really thick and sticky. Thanks for letting me know about the glycerin!

    Curls80, the BRHG will be my next purchase, unless what I tried today works. I am trying some gel that I unearthed from my stash by Curlisto - the search continues! Thanks for your input.

    :love3: to all - I appreciate hearing what your experiences have been.
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    I've found using too many humectants make me lose my curls - a huge reason I stopped using KCCC. My hair would flop halfway through the day. Are you using the old or new formula of the Ouidad Climate Control? If it's the old formula, I would use that by itself. If it's the new formula.. well, that formula is a fail, sadly. I started using CJ Curl Queen and absolutely love it - it gives me 4th day hair when I couldn't even get 2nd without re-wetting.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 12,181Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Thank you Sixe. I am using the old formula. I really have to read up on humectants and glycerin!!!

    Today was a BREAKTHROUGH I used Christo (Curlisto) Structura gel mixed with CIAB and then the hard hold gel that Christo makes. I was just trying this because it is all cg and I didn't want to buy anything new if this worked.

    I used the ice queen method after using No Poo and the above stylers. When it was dry I went out for an hour in very high dew (over 70). Amazing! It lasted - did not turn into a puff ball. Breakthrough!!!:hello1::hello1::hello1:

    Thanks so much everyone for the great suggestions and help. I still want to read up on humectants and glycerin but at least the battle is won for now, in the high dews.
    2/c Coarse hair med. density.
    Highly porous. Color over grey.
    I love all the Curl Junkie products. Still experimenting with gels and curl creams. Still hoping for 2nd day hair....
    Every day is a gift :flower:
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Yay, I'm so glad you found something that works. A great hair day so makes your day. And you used the ice queen method. :) I'm still working on not ending up with smushed hair in back that goes forward, but I looove the increased volume and curl with this method--it's amazing, isn't it?

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
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