confused about humectants...

cubancurlscubancurls Posts: 101Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
I was searching on curltalk for SUPERWET HAIR STYLING GEL and there was a post on it where the users stated that it had good frizz control and they used it year round because it had no glycerine. BUT in the ingredients it does have proplene glycol. Isn't that a HUMECTANT????


Why is it only glycerine gets a 'bad rap' and should be avoided during humid days? Is propylene glycol okay?


Even in the FRIZZ FORECAST here on NC, on high humidity/frizz days it only states to avoid glycerine.


Here are the ingredients:
Water, Triethanolamine, Carbomer, Pure Acrylic Polymer, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Fragrance, Propylene Glycol, EDTA, D&C Red 33 And FD&C Yellow 5

Comments

  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    This explains some of the issues, I agree that glycerine seems to get more focus than other humectants.
    Science-y Hair Blog: Glycerin and Humidity
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    Yes, there are many humectants that people seem to ignore. I will note that propylene glycol is toward the bottom of the ingredient list, which means lesser of it in the product than the ones listed before it. Some people can get away with it at the end of the list. I can only use glycerin in low or high dews if it's toward the bottom of the list, otherwise forget it. Also note that not everybody's hair reacts the same to humectants - or maybe it's just the perception of their hair that they have.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • BotticelliBritBotticelliBrit Posts: 2,075Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It's so weird whenever I read about all this because I've never paid attention to that sort of stuff. I basically just focus on sulfates, silicones, and any random nasties. I've never really bothered with checking the humectants and stuff. Hmmm.
    3B. Med porosity. Med thickness. Med density.

    LP: Shea Moisture (currently JBCO)
    Conditioner/CW: Jason Aloe Vera

    LI: Aunt Jackie's Curls & Coils Quench
    Refreshing: TRESemmé Naturals Aloe Vera & Avocado
    Gel: DevaCurl Ultra Defining Gel
    DC:
    Aunt Jackie's Soft & Sassy Super Duper Softening Conditioner
    Treatments: Coconut oil/Coconut milk

    UK curly. CG since Oct 2013.
    Growing my hair to WL when dry :thumright:
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    It's a very trial and error thing about how much humectant (or which kind) your hair will tolerate, and under what conditions. Some humectants are just more effective of drawing water to themselves than others, and formulation percentages matter,

    My porous-ish hair loves products with propylene glycol, but I have to be wary of when I use them. I went CG in the winter, and wasn't up on humectants at the time, and was using a product with propylene glycol. After a while it really dried my hair out; our dewpoints in winter routinely are below 20*F (and sometimes in the negative range for extended periods). I learned a lot about humectants ;-)

    So, I stick to normal ranges for humectant use, for my individual conditions. YMMV.
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I have a feeling this matters most if your hair's high porosity, or if you live in extremely high or low dews. Just a guess. I only pay attention in winter when our dews are super low, and even then I'm fine as long as I use a leave in with with some anti-humectant ingredients higher on the list. If my hair's porosity was higher it's possible I might have more trouble.
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • cubancurlscubancurls Posts: 101Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I have high porosity hair due to years of highlighting with bleach. I live in miami fl where it's super high dew points now. I tried the product and my hair is a frizz ball. I'm too sensitive to humectants. I'll have to go back to my non-humectant giovanni LA natural gel. I've been looking for something with stronger hold.....my search continues.
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    I've been testing Garnier's Super Stiff gel this week - it certainly has a good hold to it. I love me a super strong hold gel.

    It has a PEG-modified castor oil (antihumectant) in it and it is a strange gel to work with, but I don't hate it yet and it doesn't dry crunchy. I could see this holding up in humidity and it might become my go-to travel product.

    Right now I don't think, with my fine hair, I can cowash exclusively with it (but I don't do that anyway). And, I don't get a ton of volume with it (which is something I look for, but I can probably find a way around this issue sometime....). But my wavy wurls look pretty good with it and it plays nicely with FSG.

    I'll keep playing with it, but for $3 at Walmart it was a reasonable pickup.

    Aussie Instant Freeze is a med-strong hold and is also antihumectant. I like it best over a bunch of FSG.

    Good luck - a strong hold antihumectant gel is a holy grail to be sure!
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • Curly_CakesCurly_Cakes Posts: 59Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I've been recently using the LCO method to seal my hair(liquid, cream, and then oil) before using any gel because everything that worked before stopped working once the humidity started to rise(due to I think the humectants in them). I use water as my liquid, leave in for my cream and then SM smoothie or mizani supreme oil blend as my oil. Now my hair doesn't go all poofy as soon as I step outside.
    2c/3a with maybe a bit of 3b around my temples
    Cowash-As I Am
    PT-GVP Reconstructing Conditioner
    DT-As I Am Hydration Elation
    RO-? GVP Conditioning Balm
    LI- As I Am or KCKT
    Styling products-KCCC or As I am Curling Jelly
    Sealers- SM Smoothie or Mizani Supreme oil
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    I happen to have very dry, high porosity, low density, 3b curls, that are of a mix of both fine and medium textures. I have been able to use products with glycerin in them all year round, no matter the dew points, temps, humidity levels, etc. Now, does every product that has glycerin in it work for my hair? No. Which is why, I simply choose to go with whatever products my hair happens to like and I stick with them.

    I do understand that some ingredients are heavily focused on, moreso than others and that glycerin is definitely one of them. However, everyone's hair needs and properties are different, which is why when it comes to hair care products, specific ingredients, or even certain hair styling techniques/methods, what may work for some individuals' hair, may definitely not agree with others. I honestly found out what works best for my hair through trial and error, and through getting to better understand my hair (and all that naturally comes with it) overall.
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!
  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Yes, exactly. As much as we'd love some hard and fast rules, there are just way too many variables involved. I look at all the info on products and techniques as guidelines or theories, but I don't worry too much if my hair doesn't fit into one of the neat little categories. That being said, I'm always trying to make sense of why my hair likes what it likes and does what it does, in some small hope that I can save money that way. It doesn't always work out unfortunately. :)
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • Swirlycurly ChemistSwirlycurly Chemist Posts: 335Registered Users
    In that product, the propylene glycol falls below the 1% line, so it is going ot have very little effect on your hair as a humectant.
    3A canopy with 3B underneath
    Low poo, not afraid of amine-based silicones or polyquats, silk proteins are good as well.
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I have a question ...what if I use cowash and condish products with humectants, but anti humectant or non humectant gels and stylers? Does it defeat the purpose of non humectant gels or stylers if I cowash and condish with products with humctants in them?

    In my hair analysis, goose told me I need film forming humectants (aloe vera, marshmallow root) but I think those two ingredients are great for slip, aren't they?

    Also, to make myself more confused, I have noticed that Natually Curly's best anti humectant products have glycerine and propylene glycol and aloe vera in the ingredients, sometimes closer to the top of the list than the bottom. So, yeah, Im really confused.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    A "good" antihumectant product is an occlusive - one that seals the hair (either to keep moisture in, or to keep humidity out). Oils are great for this, as are silicones. Those that use the LCO or LOC methods can sometimes use humectant products in non-optimal conditions if they are sealing their hair.

    With NC's list of "best" antihumectant products, it pays to know what else is in the product, and relatively how much of each ingredient is present. Products are specifically formulated in the chosen ratios to behave a certain way. "Best" is also a relative and highly subjective term - what works for one doesn't work for all.

    Some humectants are more potent than others. The jury is out on aloe vera - some think it acts like a humectant and others not so much. I suspect how a film forming humectant like aloe vera behaves has a lot to do with an individual person's unique hair properties, weather conditions, and other products they may be using.

    Personally, I have no issues with the film forming humectant flax seed gel, even though I am sensitive to other humectants (glycerin, propylene glycol, honey, whatever) is weather conditions that are not optimal for their use. But that's not how everyone's hair reacts.

    In the end you have to figure out through trial and error what works for you. It's one of the reasons I advocate working slowly and cheaply to see what ingredients your hair does or doesn't do well with - and from there you can experiment more going forward. There are some general guidelines, but never any hard and fast rules.


    ETA: if you haven't already read this article on film forming humectants it is worth the time to discover the differences between them and traditional (small molecule) humectants. Another fabulous read about glycerin and humidity levels is this one.
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    So many variables! I'll keep experimenting!
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    Variables is the perfect way to think about it - as scientists we establish the "control" baseline and then vary one thing at a time. That way you know what's working or not.

    If you're trying a lot of things keep a journal, and don't forget the dew points, etc. in your data taking ;-)
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    So, does the dewpoint outside really matter all that much if I am spending 90% or more of my time awake in a sealed building or house?
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    Probably not, but it's a trial and error thing to see how your hair reacts to very high dew points (I would guess this would be the most troublesome case). Most dew points inside are low-moderate to start with. Most of my products are fairly weather independent, at least that's how I like it.

    Around here I plan more for wind than anything else :laughing4:
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Might that be because dew points in Britain don't generally have the wild swings they have in the US? I always had bouncy, happy curls when we lived in Scotland when I was little, neither droopy nor frizzy. When I look at dew points in the UK, they're almost never as extreme as I often see them here.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I use the same styling products in low, medium, and high dew points, I just change the ratios.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    That fits with what I've noticed, which is that things which are sweet are most likely to cause me problems.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008

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