Still fighting frizz! And other stuff

ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
I am still getting alot of crown frizz and fluffy non-clumps. It feels like all the damaged hair in the front should be gone by now but in reality it's only been about 6 months since I started the cowashing method, and I might have only gained 1-2 inches length. I've used an entire bottle of tresemme naturals and GVP conditioning balm, on to my 2nd of both of those.
Im still struggling with lifeless frizzy scraggly hair in the front and weirdly shaped and unpatterned curly curls in the back. It's still all sitting on my shoulders crowding up on my neck and under my chin getting all frazzled out by my shoulders. I'm two seconds away from chopping into a stacked bob and going back straight.
I guess the kinky curly stuff is not able to do enough in the front, and the product that can make the front curl, jelly soft curls, has hydrolyzed protein, which makes my hair feel stiff and dry.
My hair in general feels ok out of the shower and clumps somewhat until about noon when it frizzes out of its semi-clumps. I have about 15 mins tops in the morning to dry it as much as possible which is never 100% and I almost always get overdried in the front and sides and still damp in the back. By mid day it is feeling dry and scraggly and I figure it looks terrible so I almost always put it into a loose ponytail as a result. I don't know I'm frustrated I guess. I don't know what products to try and I don't want to spend hundreds trying a bunch to find the right one. Today I used a bunch more kckt thinking maybe I'm not using enough, and tried a moderate helping of devacurl light defining gel again since it's been months since I used it, as an experiment but so far, it's the same results.
I could handle the fluffiness if it were all the same wave pattern but it's not. I could handle clumpy curls if they were all the same pattern but they're not. I'm going crazy with this scraggly mess! I just want it to stay off my neck, behind my shoulders and out of my face!
CG since 11/2014
Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
Low density, very coarse, high porosity
Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
Protein: Hask Keratin
Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel

Comments

  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    So maybe you need to look and make sure everything you are using is protein free? A trim on the ends of they are as worn as you say could be useful. As for varied pattern that's just natural. Things may improve but there are up to 4 different patterns on many people. What exactly, in order, is your routine and HOW you apply it now?
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    I'm one with multiple patterns and they will never be the same. Ever! Such is life with natural hair LOL

    Have you tried a really basic protein free, humectant free gel that is harder hold, such as Aussie Instant Freeze or Herbal Essence Set Me Up (basically the same thing, I'm told).

    chupie makes a good point - sometimes application is everything and what works for one gal might not work for another.
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Have you ever tried the super soaker technique to apply your products? It might help your hair hang down instead of out which sounds like what you're looking for. Maybe you could try using a bit of one of your rinse outs as a leave in instead of the kckt, since they're more conditioning and perhaps your hair needs that?
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    chupie wrote: »
    So maybe you need to look and make sure everything you are using is protein free? A trim on the ends of they are as worn as you say could be useful. As for varied pattern that's just natural. Things may improve but there are up to 4 different patterns on many people. What exactly, in order, is your routine and HOW you apply it now?

    Chupie - Well, you make two good points. I do need to get a trim probably. I generally get a trim every other time my husband gets a cut, the stylist who cuts my hair also trims him and does a good job.

    And about the protein content...I am getting even more careful about selecting protein free products. I think I was allowing a good time period to pass using products with a protein to see in my hair liked it over the long haul...Im thinking it doesn't. Plus I was a little worried I would over-condition but geez my hair is SO stinkin dry, it cant be anywhere near over-conditioned.

    Right now I am confused about hydrolyzed wheat...is that a protein? That is the last ingredient in my Jelly Soft Curls, which I only have used a few times. The Deva Curl Light Defining Gel has all kinds of protein I think, theres oat and soy and wheat and stuff in the ingredients.

    So, needless to say, I am still struggling to find a good styling product and to be honest, I am still just overwhelmed with all of the variety of products out there to choose from.

    My routine is to co-wash about every other day. I co-wash with newly purchased Tresemme Perfectly Undone and rinse (before that it was Tresemme Natls Moisture Cond), then follow that with GVP Conditioning Balm, it stays in about 3 mins or so. That is rinsed, then I flip my head over and lately I have been squishing in Kinky Curly Knot Today. Then after that is where it falls apart. I started out trying Deva Light Def Gel, didn't work, tried Pillow Soft Curls, didn't work, tried Jelly Soft Curls, didn't work, tried Kinky Curly Curling Custard for a while, but couldn't get the definition I needed in the front at least. So I tried the Deva and Jelly Soft again, but still didn't work. Putting a curl product in wet hair seems to pull the wave out and destroys clumps in the front. But if it's too dry, it definitely pulls the curl out in the front and causes more frizz. I occasionally use a coconut prewash or just put coconut in to see SOME kind of difference in dryness or improvement. Maybe its just never going to curl in the front, or maybe I need a moderate chop right there. I even experimented spraying a diy coconut and water spritz to help in the front, but didn't get any real result.
    I dye every three weeks and use coconut before and after.
    I dilute Suave Natls as a clarifying shampoo once every few weeks, usually to wash out my dye. I hardly ever get buildup, I can feel anyway.

    One thing that I just realized that I haven't been doing...really ever... is deep conditioning, I just completely forget somehow. Maybe that is biggest problem. So today I put coconut oil in for 30 mins, cowashed and left GVP in for 30 mins. I made myself a note in the bathroom to deep condition weekly or more.

    I did purchase Yes to Coconuts Conditioner and Yes to Coconuts Curl Smoothing Crème or whatever it is called. Havent used them yet, but am going to experiment next week. Anybody used them?

    But in general, I think my cowash, rinse out, and leave in are ok choices....my roadblocks right now are getting adequate moisture, softness, curl definition, and antifrizz, even with the good products. Im so confused because my products have the trifecta: emollients for moisture, oils and film forming humectants for sealing, and cationic conditioners for slip (accd to my hair analysis, those are what my hair needs). It is mind boggling to try to shop for styling products. I don't know if I need gel, jelly, butter, crème, milk, mousse, custard, soufflé, or whatever else is out there! Each one is $20 a pop or more! Arrgh! I have an ULTA gift card that is burning a hole in my wallet. Id love to get a product from there, but they don't seem to carry much that Curlmart has (which I feel like are always CG products), or anything on the CG lists, so what the heck is up with that!? LOL.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    SpiralHam wrote: »
    I'm one with multiple patterns and they will never be the same. Ever! Such is life with natural hair LOL

    Have you tried a really basic protein free, humectant free gel that is harder hold, such as Aussie Instant Freeze or Herbal Essence Set Me Up (basically the same thing, I'm told).

    chupie makes a good point - sometimes application is everything and what works for one gal might not work for another.



    Spiral Ham - No, I have not tried humectant free products, I have felt like I need humectants. But I really am not positive what I need to be honest. I have been thinking I need a hard hold product, but I run into the problem of not recognizing which ones are hard hold. So, thank you for suggesting those two products. Whats funny, is when I started this several months ago, I was scrambling to find a product with all the things my hair needed (accd to Goosefootprints, I need film forming humectants, emollients, and cationic conditioners for moisture, protection, and slip) and so I spent days comparing products trying to find single products that had all of those three types of ingredients so I could get most bang for my buck. Well, what I found is that almost all the best products have some type of all those three properties I needed, and now I am thinking if I want anti-humectant, it will be hard to find one without it!
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Have you ever tried the super soaker technique to apply your products? It might help your hair hang down instead of out which sounds like what you're looking for. Maybe you could try using a bit of one of your rinse outs as a leave in instead of the kckt, since they're more conditioning and perhaps your hair needs that?

    Serene Curls - Hmm I am ashamed to admit I haven't researched many of the techniques for application. Ill definitely keep digging in the forums and see about the super soaker method. Also, maybe the GVP would be a good leave in, it is definitely more conditioning. I am also ashamed to admit that I have not been deep conditioning...like at all. So that might make a difference once I begin that regularly too.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    If KCCC almost works but not quite, two products to try are , Camille Rose CurlMaker and Mop Top Custard.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • sunshine1319sunshine1319 Posts: 62Registered Users
    suave serum gel ingredients:Water (Aqua), Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Polyquaternium-10, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, VP/VA Copolymer, Fragrance (Parfum), Polyquaternium-11, DMDM Hydantoin, Cetrimonium Chloride, Butylene Glycol, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Yellow 5 (CI 19140), Red 33 (CI 17200).

    this product is cg approved right?
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Yes.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • sunshine1319sunshine1319 Posts: 62Registered Users
    thanks lately my hair has been having more curls with lighter products
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    ttoosday wrote: »


    Spiral Ham - No, I have not tried humectant free products, I have felt like I need humectants. But I really am not positive what I need to be honest. I have been thinking I need a hard hold product, but I run into the problem of not recognizing which ones are hard hold. So, thank you for suggesting those two products. Whats funny, is when I started this several months ago, I was scrambling to find a product with all the things my hair needed (accd to Goosefootprints, I need film forming humectants, emollients, and cationic conditioners for moisture, protection, and slip) and so I spent days comparing products trying to find single products that had all of those three types of ingredients so I could get most bang for my buck. Well, what I found is that almost all the best products have some type of all those three properties I needed, and now I am thinking if I want anti-humectant, it will be hard to find one without it!

    You might want to give it a whirl - see how it goes for you. I like humectants - in normal dew points, or in my conditioning products. I rarely use them in a product I leave in my hair. You could try a humectant leave in if you feel you need humectants. In my styling products I tend to avoid them (but I have higher porosity hair).

    Try doing just the basic thing (hard hold, humectant free) to see if you can get more of the definition that you want. A harder hold gel may help you keep the definition there. If you like the results, you can always try using the harder hold gel over another humectant containing product - but I would try it alone to see if you can get more of the results you're looking for first.

    Humectant free is a challenge, but it is possible to do :)
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    I second being careful of humectants.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Yes I am getting really confused about humectants. I have read enough to understand the difference between humectants and film forming humectants.. I guess I just don't know what my hair needs. Sounds like I need to buy yet another set products, with no humectants at all just to experiment. Or I need to find a hard hold product that will power through the weather no matter what.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 509Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Oh man I got perfect curls for once in my life yesterday afternoon and evening.

    I cowashed as usual yesterday morning, rinsed out my RO, squished in my Knot Today. But I used some HE Totally Twisted mousse, just to try something different. My curls during the day at work were better defined than usual, but still just OK - normal, not stellar or anything.

    When I left work at 5, storms rolled in and it rained a good amount on the drive home. At home, I ran out under an umbrella to check the mail, and an hr or so later, husband and I ran to the store. I never got my hair actually wet. But by the time I went to bed OMG I had tthe most perfectly perfect curled and defined and soft curls I have had so far - all over, not just the back.

    I wish I could know which product did the trick and I wish it could be 100% humidity every day I guess!
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Collarbone length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Typical LEG routine could be any combination of:
    Lo poo: Shea Moisture brand shampoo, Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB, Aussie Mega Moist, Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Leave In: As I Am LI, KCKT, or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Enhancer: Camille Rose Curl Maker
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, Ouidad Climate Control gel, LA Looks gel
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    It sounds like moisture did the trick. All that ambient moisture smoothed it.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • AmberWaves7AmberWaves7 Posts: 9Registered Users
    Your hair sounds really similar to mine in terms of curl pattern, dryness, texture, and density. I'm also avoiding proteins at this point and may also be avoiding coconut (my hair had an alarming amount of fallout after a coconut oil treatment, so I'm testing the waters). I'm following to see your updates as I'm new to CG and I'm still trying various products with different (not great) results. Happy product journey! 8-)
    2a-2c, mostly coarse, low porosity roots/normal shaft/high ends (heat damage), normal dry/low wet elasticity, low to normal density (GoosefootPrints)

    LP: Yes to Cucumbers
    NP: Suave naturals coconut, TJ TTT condish (new)
    RO: Devacurl one, GVP conditioning balm, Yes to Coconuts (occasionally as squish to condish)
    LI: Giovanni Direct, KCKT (new)
    Stylers: KCCC (new), HE totally twisted, LAL mega mega, Deva Ultra Defining (new)
    Hair dislikes: protein and high doses of coconut oil

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