Seeking definition and control

acarricoacarrico Registered Users Posts: 60
A thread by BomerAng and response by rbb helped me think about what I want.

DEFINITION and CONTROL. I am a 3C. Not sure on porosity and those other options. I tend to get overwhelmed by all the information here quickly.

I hate frizz. Any and all kinds - including "halo". I have been on the CG method for about 3 years - my hair is now totally natural after getting the last of chemical cut out about 6 months ago. I use almost all devacurl products: no poo, one conditioner, heaven in hair (as a leave in almost every day), and the ultra defining gel. I recently found It's a 10 Miracle Styling Potion and I love, love how soft it makes my hair feel, however it does not define my curl.

I am attaching examples of the control I would like. I have used CHS Curl Keeper before and it doesn't produce this on me - but it works. Just can't get it locally. Deva I can. The other photos are me today.

Do you have other product recommendations? Application methods? I don't care for the "wet" look so I usually break the cast on any gels I use.

I am afraid I am being unreasonable in my zero tolerance of frizz. Maybe it just isn't possible. (And I am not willing to spend 2 hours on my hair doing tiny finger curls). If so, any advice on how to start accepting frizz? I have felt so down for about 2 weeks now because I just can't seem to accept my hair.

Comments

  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,358 Curl Connoisseur
    i know it is overwhelming to work thru all the info, but you need to know your hair's texture (fine, medium, coarse) and its porosity (high, normal, low) to best determine the ingredients it needs and those to avoid.

    there are many sites that break it down easily. i'll start with the one i remember, there are others:

    curljunkieblogspot.com and the specific one is--
    friday, february 19, 2010
    My 2 cents on Protein/Texture/Porosity/Moisture Balance! :-)


    there are others and i am sure

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • acarricoacarrico Registered Users Posts: 60
    Ok, so here is some additional info.

    I would say my hair is fine - around a 4 or so according to the article. But there is A LOT of it - very dense. I did the "porosity" test and my hair mostly floated. So I am guessing it is low or normal. Other tidbits from the article referenced: I condition nearly every day. I wake up with bed head and start all over each morning. That means I diffuse nearly every day - on warm and generally low. Tho sometimes I try to cheat which pretty much results in frizz. I "poo" every 4 to 5 days. I have never seen my hair "oily" like straight haired people describe. LOL. I shower in HOT water. I hear a cool water rinse can help but I have never stuck with them...I guess because I am lazy. My curls are mostly "coily" and with some "zig zaggy". They are too tight to be called "spiral", I think.

    I thought about trying to just rewet my hair in the mornings rather than going through the whole condition, leave-in condition, miracle potion, gel routine EVERY morning. It certainly would help with product. And I work out each day at lunch - which means I wet it down and put MORE gel on it to calm it down (ecostyle, I think). I am doing/redoing it 2 to 3 times per day.
  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,358 Curl Connoisseur
    that porosity test doesn't really work.
    one way to tell is the amount of time it takes your hair to dry -- low porosity takes about 6 hours, high porosity about 2, and medium about 3-4 hrs.
    you can also get an analysis done by goose footprints (you can google it) that would be extremely helpful.
    maybe it would help direct you to better products for your hair so you don't have to wash/wet it so often.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • acarricoacarrico Registered Users Posts: 60
    Well I checked out the goosefootprints on etsy. So maybe that can be a future option. That feels like something that is just complicated enough that I will screw up if I try. Lol! In another post (when I was trying to find goosefootprints), I noticed that you mentioned you liked curl junkie products more than deva. I didn't see a retail store close to my area on their website - but I swear I have seen it somewhere locally. Are the products carried in a chain store (that you are aware of)??? They started carrying Kinky Curly at Target so maybe I should try going back to that. I had just started using that before I went to a stylist who specializes in curly hair who showed me the CG method. I started using Deva because it was easy to get.
  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,358 Curl Connoisseur
    there are a few stores that carry curl junkie, ricky's is the only chain i think and i believe they are only in ny.
    i buy my curl junkie products on aveyou.com because there is always a discount and shipping is amazingly reasonable, and they are quick.
    FIVE = 15% off any amount
    AYWINTER25 = $25 off $100 or more
    shipping --$5 on orders $49 and less, $1 on $50 or more.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • hookilauhookilau Registered Users Posts: 269
    Just this past weekend, I saw KCCC at Walgreen's :occasion7:
    Following CG
    fine, medium-low density :confused5:
    protein loving, porous, elasticity ?

    Co-wash: Tresemme Perfectly Undone
    LI/RO: GVP Conditioning Balm, Jane Carter Solutions Nutrient Replenishing Conditioner
    Stylers: KCCC, AG recoil, CurlKeeper, As I am curling pudding
    Protein treatments: Aphogee's Keratin 2 minute reconstructor, and Colorful neutral protein filler

    Loves: aloe, glycerin & polyquats even in neg dews
    :happy3:
  • acarricoacarrico Registered Users Posts: 60
    Well, went to Target last night and got some KCCC and Knot Today. Wow! What a difference in my hair. I can't believe what using a different product did. Maybe three years of the same old, same old day in and day out just got old. I definitely have more definition but my hair is still wet. I will have to report back on what happens for the rest of the day. I think I was a bit heavy handed because I have been using so much Deva but we shall see. :)

    Will have to check out Walgreens too! And thanks for the lead on Curl Junkie. I will check out the website.
  • sixelamysixelamy Registered Users Posts: 4,157 Curl Novice
    I second Curl Junkie products! KCCC has been an HG for me for a long time, giving consistent results. Product really does matter.

    I highly recommend GoosefootPrints. It's not too confusing to follow her recommendations. It really helped me a lot when I was struggling. She has you ask specific questions that you want answered, so her report is really tailored to your specific hair and what you want and need from it.

    ETA: If you already have a good gel in your hair, rewetting your hair should give you a hard hold again while it dries - you really don't need to put more in. If you're not getting that hold by re-wetting, I'd recommend getting a better quality gel. I find Jessicurl Rockin' Ringlets to be fantastic with this. KCCC not so much.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • hookilauhookilau Registered Users Posts: 269
    acarrico wrote: »
    Well, went to Target last night and got some KCCC and Knot Today. Wow! What a difference in my hair. I can't believe what using a different product did. Maybe three years of the same old, same old day in and day out just got old. I definitely have more definition but my hair is still wet. I will have to report back on what happens for the rest of the day. I think I was a bit heavy handed because I have been using so much Deva but we shall see. :)

    Will have to check out Walgreens too! And thanks for the lead on Curl Junkie. I will check out the website.

    For me, it's alll about the products. Without them, I got me a straight-ish frizzy mess. It's an interesting look :toothy3: but not one I relish sporting!

    KCCC is one of my HG products that I cannot do without. Jane Carter Solutions works in a similar fashion in my hair, along with Curl Keeper and AG recoil.

    KCCC acts as a styler for me, by itself, it doesn't have enough hold to last more than half the day. However, layered in with the above named products and it's a whole different ballgame sistah :love7:

    Glad to see you're enjoying some success though =D
    Trial & error can be a bear.
    Following CG
    fine, medium-low density :confused5:
    protein loving, porous, elasticity ?

    Co-wash: Tresemme Perfectly Undone
    LI/RO: GVP Conditioning Balm, Jane Carter Solutions Nutrient Replenishing Conditioner
    Stylers: KCCC, AG recoil, CurlKeeper, As I am curling pudding
    Protein treatments: Aphogee's Keratin 2 minute reconstructor, and Colorful neutral protein filler

    Loves: aloe, glycerin & polyquats even in neg dews
    :happy3:
  • kathymackkathymack Registered Users Posts: 9,999 Curl Neophyte
    Your hair is fabulous!

    Many of us started out with Deva, thought we liked it and then moved on to other things we like a lot more. I've always rotated products, even back in my shampoo/conditioner only days. I wet, use a rinse out and style every day. Seldom use any one product more then once a week.

    According to my stylist, the biggest complaint for curlies is frizz. I think we all expect to have some. If you can get frizz free curls without the wet look, you're doing something that's right, LOL!

    I never used products until I started lurking on nc.com 8 years ago. I became a real product junkie (probably a product strumpet!) There was a certain thrill when I choose my products every morning--and to see the final result. Really enjoyed learning about my hair. I tried new products systematically by purpose (leave in, curl enhancer, gel, etc.)

    I discovered that my hair preferred the more natural, online (originally), boutique type products. I stay away from chemicals, especially polyquats 4, 7 and 10, and my hair never met a protein it didn't like.

    Here's another link for you Curly Hair Basics | Live Curly Live Free It has a good explanation of properties and the ingredients they like. Her e-book is really good and has a lot of information.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • acarricoacarrico Registered Users Posts: 60
    Wow thanks all. So my next question. What are these polyquats I keep hearing about? I took a break from NC.com and now am hearing abt these. Lol. Still having some success with KC. So glad I grabbed a new product. Not perfect but better. Attached pics from today.
  • kathymackkathymack Registered Users Posts: 9,999 Curl Neophyte
    acarrico wrote: »
    Wow thanks all. So my next question. What are these polyquats I keep hearing about? I took a break from NC.com and now am hearing abt these. Lol. Still having some success with KC. So glad I grabbed a new product. Not perfect but better. Attached pics from today.

    Polyquaternium. They're not new. It just took some of us a while to realize they can be a problem. Different numbers do different things. For me, they "coat" my hair and cause build up. My issue was frizz when wet. Some people don't have issues with them, I do. They are also difficult for me to remove. Take a few washes with a stronger surfactant to remove.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rbbrbb Registered Users Posts: 4,358 Curl Connoisseur
    here are two great articles on polyquats by tonya that are informative:

    LOW-SHAMPOO OR CO-WASH ROUTINES AND POLYQUATS
    8.9.10 by Tonya McKay
    INCI number not a good indicator of shampoo free suitability. Read more »
    Polyquats as Conditioning Agents

    POLYQUATS AS CONDITIONING AGENTS
    4.1.09 by Tonya McKay

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine

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