Pop psychology

spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Registered Users Posts: 17,898 Curl Virtuoso
:dontknow:Maybe I'm the only one bothered by this but why does it seem so many pop psych concepts/problems/theories/conditions have no consensus of meaning. Like "energy vampire," "co-dependent," "narcissist,"etc. You look them up and the definitions are so unduly broad it's like half of everyone you know could be included or has shown tendencies. Even "addiction" is a bit too fuzzy for me. It's all starting to sound like astrological sign personality traits...

Have any of you observed anything along these lines?

Is the field of psychology doing anything worthwhile today?

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  • sixelamysixelamy Registered Users Posts: 4,157 Curl Novice
    I hate the psychology industry.
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  • DedachanDedachan Registered Users Posts: 1,644 Curl Neophyte
    I know very little about psychology. I have the impression, though, that there are many pseudo-pshycologists out there doing bad science and probably tarnishing the names of the more reputable ones that actually know what they are doing.
  • PerriPPerriP Registered Users Posts: 6,613 Curl Neophyte
    I find the issue to be more an overuse of terms that actually have diagnostic criteria by people who aren't qualified to use the label. Example:someone has mood swings and people label it bipolar.

    Also the confusing of terms I.e. narcissistic personality disorder being used interchangeably with narcissism. Not the same thing (although someone with NPD would be a narcissist, not everyone with narcissistic tendencies have NPD)
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Registered Users Posts: 15,490 Curl Neophyte
    Shortly after Prozac came out over half the U.S could meet the needed criteria for depression. Several psychologists/psychiatrists take issue with current definitions & criteria.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • mustangbunnymustangbunny Registered Users Posts: 1,033
    I second PerriP. It's a pet peeve of mine when people describe someone as bipolar or OCD when they are not truly that. And then they use the words as if it is an insult and not a genuine medical diagnosis. It can be very hurtful and ignorant, and undermines the serious nature of mental health issues.


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  • juanabjuanab Registered Users Posts: 4,037 Curl Neophyte
    In response to the SL's question, yes it has. At least for me it has.

    Pop psychologists, same as armchair quarterbacks. PerriP and MustangBunny are correct.

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  • sixelamysixelamy Registered Users Posts: 4,157 Curl Novice
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    Shortly after Prozac came out over half the U.S could meet the needed criteria for depression. Several psychologists/psychiatrists take issue with current definitions & criteria.

    The majority. They tried to diagnose me with depression from a survey I took on paper. I think that's bad science right there. I wasn't depressed at the time, and I'm still not! Who needs a degree anymore when you have paper tests?
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Registered Users Posts: 15,490 Curl Neophyte
    sixelamy wrote: »
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    Shortly after Prozac came out over half the U.S could meet the needed criteria for depression. Several psychologists/psychiatrists take issue with current definitions & criteria.

    The majority. They tried to diagnose me with depression from a survey I took on paper. I think that's bad science right there. I wasn't depressed at the time, and I'm still not! Who needs a degree anymore when you have paper tests?

    Exactly!! It's like you can't have any type of emotion for longer than a week without needing an evaluation and Rx. You must work it out on their clock (14 days) not in your own time/way. They had better criteria before everyone started putting their kids on meds for being typical teenagers experiencing changes and trying to navigate thru it. I in no way think they should extended it to months on end but try to keep it out of the standard challenges and changes in life realm. The current check lists help no one.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • djonae18djonae18 Registered Users Posts: 43
    There are so many different views and theories and almost all psychologists have different views in some way. They'll have the same terms but a different interpretation for the term. Even if a psychologist supports a certain theory or view, they'll still think differently of something else in that theory.

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  • LeeLee182LeeLee182 Registered Users Posts: 784
    This might help you... http://www.autism.com/news_dsmV


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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Registered Users Posts: 17,898 Curl Virtuoso
    juanab wrote: »
    In response to the SL's question, yes it has. At least for me it has.

    Pop psychologists, same as armchair quarterbacks. PerriP and MustangBunny are correct.

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    The question of mine you're answering is whether the psych field has done anything worthwhile? You're talking about one-on-one counseling w/ a therapist? Do you really feel it was something above and beyond what simply talking to a smart and supportive friend or relative could do? Or did you mean something else?

  • juanabjuanab Registered Users Posts: 4,037 Curl Neophyte
    Counseling. It is not something a supportive friend or relative would be able to help with
    juanab wrote: »
    In response to the SL's question, yes it has. At least for me it has.

    Pop psychologists, same as armchair quarterbacks. PerriP and MustangBunny are correct.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using CurlTalk App

    The question of mine you're answering is whether the psych field has done anything worthwhile? You're talking about one-on-one counseling w/ a therapist? Do you really feel it was something above and beyond what simply talking to a smart and supportive friend or relative could do? Or did you mean something else?



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  • PerriPPerriP Registered Users Posts: 6,613 Curl Neophyte
    juanab wrote: »
    Counseling. It is not something a supportive friend or relative would be able to help with

    Agree. It's a completely different relationship, and it should be
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  • eveumeveum Registered Users Posts: 744 Curl Neophyte
    Comparing a friend/relative to a psychiatric professional is ignorant. Both my parents are employed in the psychiatric field, each with 25 years of NHS experience.

    You can't compare these no matter how 'smart' the friend in question is. Not to mention the fact that this could become very emotionally draining on the friend/relative and the fact that for the majority of people would prefer to talk about their problems to someone they don't know, depending on the severity of their situation.

    For me, the most annoying thing that people can do in regards to mental health is self diagnose either themselves or someone else, you see this more commonly with OCD, Depression, and bipolar. Really gets on my nerves.

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  • SpecklaSpeckla Registered Users Posts: 187 Curl Connoisseur
    .
  • StarmieStarmie Registered Users Posts: 7,169 Curl Virtuoso
    I work in psychiatry and think I'm far too involved to make an objective observation on the use of the terminology you mentioned, but as to the psychology question - yes, they do do worthwhile stuff, our psychiatrists regularly refer patients to psychologists to deal with specific issues like ocd, ptsd and csa, as they're not things the psychiatrists have the time (or knowledge, methinks) to work through.
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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Registered Users Posts: 17,898 Curl Virtuoso
    eveum wrote: »
    Comparing a friend/relative to a psychiatric professional is ignorant. Both my parents are employed in the psychiatric field, each with 25 years of NHS experience.

    You can't compare these no matter how 'smart' the friend in question is. Not to mention the fact that this could become very emotionally draining on the friend/relative and the fact that for the majority of people would prefer to talk about their problems to someone they don't know, depending on the severity of their situation.

    For me, the most annoying thing that people can do in regards to mental health is self diagnose either themselves or someone else, you see this more commonly with OCD, Depression, and bipolar. Really gets on my nerves.

    You're entitled to your opinion but I think it's even more ignorant for ppl w/ everyday life problems to conscribe themselves to mentally ill status unnecessarily and trust some quack to make them all better (which almost never happens).

    Some ppl have real, actual, mental health diagnoses...and I'm not referring to these ppl. Often those ppl need the help of psychiatrists, not psychologists or MSWlevel counselors. Some might might benefit from pychologists too...but it seems like good ones are so few and far btwn. A lot of quacks IMO.

  • djonae18djonae18 Registered Users Posts: 43
    Psychology states that every person exhibits a sign of a mental disorder at least once a year. Some psychologists can think loosely & determine something very slight as a mental disorder when it can actually just be normal.

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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Registered Users Posts: 17,898 Curl Virtuoso
    djonae18 wrote: »
    Psychology states that every person exhibits a sign of a mental disorder at least once a year. Some psychologists can think loosely & determine something very slight as a mental disorder when it can actually just be normal.

    Sent from my LG-D959 using CurlTalk App

    Right...and then they drag out the "treatment" for years or decades and turn the client, who was basically a normal person w/ normal problems, into an emotional infant.

    I think the handful of good ones who exist should publish more self-help manuals so fewer ppl get strung along by the flim flam artists.

  • Fifi.GFifi.G Registered Users Posts: 15,490 Curl Neophyte
    eveum wrote: »
    Comparing a friend/relative to a psychiatric professional is ignorant. Both my parents are employed in the psychiatric field, each with 25 years of NHS experience.

    You can't compare these no matter how 'smart' the friend in question is. Not to mention the fact that this could become very emotionally draining on the friend/relative and the fact that for the majority of people would prefer to talk about their problems to someone they don't know, depending on the severity of their situation.

    For me, the most annoying thing that people can do in regards to mental health is self diagnose either themselves or someone else, you see this more commonly with OCD, Depression, and bipolar. Really gets on my nerves.

    You're entitled to your opinion but I think it's even more ignorant for ppl w/ everyday life problems to conscribe themselves to mentally ill status unnecessarily and trust some quack to make them all better (which almost never happens).

    Some ppl have real, actual, mental health diagnoses...and I'm not referring to these ppl. Often those ppl need the help of psychiatrists, not psychologists or MSWlevel counselors. Some might might benefit from pychologists too...but it seems like good ones are so few and far btwn. A lot of quacks IMO.

    While I agree with you about a lot of quacks being out there, and absolutely about people going thru something that are diagnosed and put on meds when they should not be..: I also agree with eveum on many points. Take my BFF. He has had issues with depression for a long time and he would rather talk to me about things than a professional. Especially when something new or unusual happens. I will lend my shoulder and my ear while urging him to speak with a professional. He is a hypochondriac and spends most of his time on line trying to diagnose himself. He also has a bad habbit of googling almoat every depression med, reading all the side effects, searching stories about those on forums, and refuses to try it himself based on interweb horror stories. He will trust Joe Blow on a site about pills before a psychiatrist. Meanwhile, he has gotten so paranoid that he has to cover all the mirrorw in his room before he can sleep. This has to do with hallucinations from time to time and is a newer issue.

    Let me find a link on Tumblr and I'll show you what else drives me, and I am sure eveum, crazy... Be right back.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Registered Users Posts: 15,490 Curl Neophyte
    Well, I could not find the link I wanted and some of the other good ones have words in the link that will prohibit them from being posted here. This one is kind of interesting.

    PTSD Confessions

    Did you know kids can now catch PTSD from the TV? Give me a prohibited word break!!! This is why it is dangerous but sadly is a huge thing on Tumblr. All the kids got to SD.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Registered Users Posts: 17,898 Curl Virtuoso
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    eveum wrote: »
    Comparing a friend/relative to a psychiatric professional is ignorant. Both my parents are employed in the psychiatric field, each with 25 years of NHS experience.

    You can't compare these no matter how 'smart' the friend in question is. Not to mention the fact that this could become very emotionally draining on the friend/relative and the fact that for the majority of people would prefer to talk about their problems to someone they don't know, depending on the severity of their situation.

    For me, the most annoying thing that people can do in regards to mental health is self diagnose either themselves or someone else, you see this more commonly with OCD, Depression, and bipolar. Really gets on my nerves.

    You're entitled to your opinion but I think it's even more ignorant for ppl w/ everyday life problems to conscribe themselves to mentally ill status unnecessarily and trust some quack to make them all better (which almost never happens).

    Some ppl have real, actual, mental health diagnoses...and I'm not referring to these ppl. Often those ppl need the help of psychiatrists, not psychologists or MSWlevel counselors. Some might might benefit from pychologists too...but it seems like good ones are so few and far btwn. A lot of quacks IMO.

    While I agree with you about a lot of quacks being out there, and absolutely about people going thru something that are diagnosed and put on meds when they should not be..: I also agree with eveum on many points. Take my BFF. He has had issues with depression for a long time and he would rather talk to me about things than a professional. Especially when something new or unusual happens. I will lend my shoulder and my ear while urging him to speak with a professional. He is a hypochondriac and spends most of his time on line trying to diagnose himself. He also has a bad habbit of googling almoat every depression med, reading all the side effects, searching stories about those on forums, and refuses to try it himself based on interweb horror stories. He will trust Joe Blow on a site about pills before a psychiatrist. Meanwhile, he has gotten so paranoid that he has to cover all the mirrorw in his room before he can sleep. This has to do with hallucinations from time to time and is a newer issue.

    Let me find a link on Tumblr and I'll show you what else drives me, and I am sure eveum, crazy... Be right back.

    But haven't you described this friend as more of a drama queen who just keeps making bad life decisions (jobs and relationships, etc.)?

    IM(lay)O, it seems like a lot of ppl's "depression" results from that kind of thing. (Altho, there are definitely some ppl who are legitimately chemically/electrically depressed and are in need of professional help. Brain scans can sometimes actually show the abnormal electrical activity.)

    Ppl like your friend are what keep the unscrupulous quacks out there in business...lots of drama keep him coming back but no one is really helping him.

  • EilonwyEilonwy Registered Users Posts: 12,391 Curl Connoisseur
    Basically, psychologists are necessary because pills can't do everything. I also wrote a lot of stuff about differences between pop psychology and serious psychology. The way I wrote it may be a little weird, but I'm really sleep deprived!

    If you only look at the criteria under each diagnosis in the DSM, they seem like really vague traits that could fit way more people than they should. But those traits aren't diagnosable unless they're actually disrupting the person's life (or the lives of those around them), and affecting their ability to function. I'm not a psychologist, so I may be not be stating this right -- but very basically, it's not a disorder unless it's a problem.

    Having the education/training to distinguish between annoying personality traits and true disorders is part of what separates real psychologists from pop psychologists. I mean, by definition pop psychology is dumb BS. It's like saying physics is invalid because of the Time Cube guy. Pop psychology will always be outdated, way over-simplified, and grossly inaccurate. And unlike serious psychology, it won't get better.

    Serious psychology has had, and continues to have, its own share of BS -- which can be devastating. But, as a practice and field of study, it's still new. People are still figuring out the best ways to do it. And, unfortunately, that takes time. In the meantime though, just talking about your problems with a (relatively) impartial person is beneficial in itself. And if your perceptions are messed up due to mental illness, or even just from being mired in your problems, it's also really helpful to hear feedback from someone who's looking at things more realistically. And there are a lot of great psychologists out there. The quality varies from one psychologist to another, but that's kind of just how it goes. It's the same with teachers, doctors, etc.
  • EilonwyEilonwy Registered Users Posts: 12,391 Curl Connoisseur
    Often those ppl need the help of psychiatrists, not psychologists or MSWlevel counselors.
    If your psychiatrist doesn't recommend finding a psychologist, run away. I'm serious. There's no pill that magically fixes people. Psych meds aren't antibiotics. They can be a tremendous help, but they can't do everything for you. Not to mention, it can take decades to find the right medication(s) -- supposing the right meds even exist!

    I am extremely fortunate to have found an antidepressant (which I still take) that 100% took away my depression. But before finding that, I desperately needed non-pharmaceutical help. So I saw a psychologist. And once the antidepressant kicked in, I still didn't know how to cope with anything except by avoidance. I still thought like a depressed person, because it was the only way I knew how to think. So I kept seeing a psychologist. And I still see one.

    A psychologist is also the proper person to see if you're going through a rough time and feel overwhelmed, but don't need a psychiatrist (or aren't sure if you need one, or don't realize that you do). I don't think many people go to a psychiatrist without having seen a psychologist first. I think that mainly happens with people who have to go straight to the hospital because they're a danger to themselves or others (or are suspected to be).
  • curlisue1curlisue1 Registered Users Posts: 494 Curl Novice
    All I know is that I worked in the mental health field for three years and I have never worked with such a group of immoral and ridiculous people in my life. Working with these mental health providers are the reason I decided to get out of healthcare. I do believe that good ones are very few and far between.
  • PerriPPerriP Registered Users Posts: 6,613 Curl Neophyte
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Often those ppl need the help of psychiatrists, not psychologists or MSWlevel counselors.
    If your psychiatrist doesn't recommend finding a psychologist, run away. I'm serious. There's no pill that magically fixes people. Psych meds aren't antibiotics. They can be a tremendous help, but they can't do everything for you. Not to mention, it can take decades to find the right medication(s) -- supposing the right meds even exist!

    I am extremely fortunate to have found an antidepressant (which I still take) that 100% took away my depression. But before finding that, I desperately needed non-pharmaceutical help. So I saw a psychologist. And once the antidepressant kicked in, I still didn't know how to cope with anything except by avoidance. I still thought like a depressed person, because it was the only way I knew how to think. So I kept seeing a psychologist. And I still see one.

    A psychologist is also the proper person to see if you're going through a rough time and feel overwhelmed, but don't need a psychiatrist (or aren't sure if you need one, or don't realize that you do). I don't think many people go to a psychiatrist without having seen a psychologist first. I think that mainly happens with people who have to go straight to the hospital because they're a danger to themselves or others (or are suspected to be).

    ^this.
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  • EilonwyEilonwy Registered Users Posts: 12,391 Curl Connoisseur
    Hey, it's a third reply to (I think?) the same post!
    IM(lay)O, it seems like a lot of ppl's "depression" results from that kind of thing. (Altho, there are definitely some ppl who are legitimately chemically/electrically depressed and are in need of professional help. Brain scans can sometimes actually show the abnormal electrical activity.)
    Mental health diagnoses are based on symptoms, not cause. Neurochemically, there's likely all different reasons a person could have the set of symptoms that's labeled "depression." There's a lot of research going on to figure out the etiologies of mental illnesses. It's hoped that the findings will improve both treatment and diagnosis.

    Depressed people often think their depression isn't legitimate. They believe that they're terrible people for being depressed "for no good reason."

    e: To clarify, I didn't feel guilty for being depressed. But it seems pretty common.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Registered Users Posts: 17,898 Curl Virtuoso
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Hey, it's a third reply to (I think?) the same post!
    IM(lay)O, it seems like a lot of ppl's "depression" results from that kind of thing. (Altho, there are definitely some ppl who are legitimately chemically/electrically depressed and are in need of professional help. Brain scans can sometimes actually show the abnormal electrical activity.)
    Mental health diagnoses are based on symptoms, not cause. Neurochemically, there's likely all different reasons a person could have the set of symptoms that's labeled "depression." There's a lot of research going on to figure out the etiologies of mental illnesses. It's hoped that the findings will improve both treatment and diagnosis.

    Depressed people often think their depression isn't legitimate. They believe that they're terrible people for being depressed "for no good reason."

    I'm not trying to ascribe morality or immorality to it. My concern is effective treatment and why there seems so little of it nowadays among so many of these shrinks.

    And I def think the treatment should be tailored to the cause rather than just he symptoms. A person can have symptoms of depression bc a loved one died, bc of an electrical brain abnormality, bc they are taking chemotherapy, bc of chronic stress, etc. Absolutely the cause should factor into the treatment! What kind of idiot would disregard the cause?:banghead:

  • juanabjuanab Registered Users Posts: 4,037 Curl Neophyte
    Btw, psychiatrists can prescribe meds, psychologists cannot. Just like any profession, there are good ones and bad ones. If you are seeing a bad one, find another, just as you would with a medical doctor.

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  • scrillsscrills Registered Users Posts: 6,700
    Wow. I can't believe some of the comments in this thread.

    No, it's not the same as talking to a good friend. Here and there, perhaps. Long term, no. The goal should be to get you to the point where you want to get better more than anyone else wants you to get better. The idea is to give you tools to cope with what's happening. I've been going to see someone on and off for years and meds were far from the first thing brought up.

    Your friends wants you not to be hurt/be happy. A professional wants to teach you how to deal with those issues. Your friend may be too close or biased. The professional should be objective. Your friend may be part of the issue (by either adding to it or not forcing you to take accountibility). The professional should do neither of these things.

    I think one of the reasons the terms are so broad because we fail to realize how many people in our own lives are emotional vampires, etc. We sometimes need an unbiased, outside perspective. For example, I was 30 years old and in a session when they helped me to realize that my mother had been a high functioning alcoholic. My mom was so amazing to everyone else, to everyone else we were the Huxtables, no one would have dared to say that about my mom. I needed to hear it so that I could deal with my own issues. In turn, did I pass this info on to others that needed it? Yes, but that should have been a start for them and not the finish.

    I don't just blame the professionals out there for the issues with the field. I think society is in part to blame,

    FYI, I see a psychologists (no meds) and only a psychiatrist (meds) when I am suffering the same issues and can't seem to break out of it.

    I think mental illness is an issue too often dismissed (esp. in the black community) and the result is a lot of other crap and high suicide rates.

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