Styling products that won't dry hair? ADDED PIC

cm03cm03 Posts: 24Registered Users Curl Neophyte
I "lurk" here off and on and have been CG or modified CG for about 2 years. My hair is long (past shoulders but not quite BSL), fine, rather thin, porous with mostly 2b/c waves and a swavy underlayer.

I've had pretty much the same routine since I started experimenting with CG and rarely had any issues (except for a disastrous 2-week run in with suave coconut when my usual V05 was out, and once when I was over moisture/under-protein) but now my hair is seeming really dried out. I don't think it is too much protein- I've done a few tests on the strands and the results are mixed so I am going to back off protein a bit but I do think it is mainly just dry. My waves are wimpy and weak without product so I rarely go without but I noticed recently that my hair seemed much drier when I use gel so I'm thinking maybe I need a new one for winter? (It's always dry here but winter is brutally so). I don't really understand the humectant/dewpoint thing but reading another post here mentioned that issue with my main styling product and made me think that might be the issue. I use DC ultra defining gel and sometimes a light scrunch of Giovanni LA natural on top.

What would be a better curl aid/styling gel for winter to prevent dryness? I probably also need to try some deeper conditioners for a while, too? My waves are so thick and lush in humidity and can also get to tighter spirals but in winter they've been sad and limp.

Product routine:

co-wash V05 kiwi lime condish (changing to another without protein, maybe the mint vanilla tea if I can find it, and only co-wash 2-3/week)
low poo (when needed, maybe 2/month) Giovanni TTTT

rinse out (with a little left in for winter) GVP condish balm
Occasional deep treat with one of the ion sally reconstructer packets that has protein but can't recall which?

post shower leave in- Giovanni DLI
Stylers- Deva curl ultra gel, Giovanni LA natural

Plop 15 min, then root clip and lightly diffuse to heat set the curl pattern, but trying to air dry more.

SOTC with a bit of argan oil

Hopefully I covered all the pertinent info. Any product suggestions greatly appreciated! Wish I could just move to San Diego- my hair loves it there! lol

Comments

  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    With the products you list, you 'shouldn't' have dry hair. This leads me to believe that maybe you have a buildup issue you need to address. Do you have soft or hard water?
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    A couple of thoughts; I also have fine porous hair in a dry winter climate...

    GVP balm is high on propylene glycol - also a humectant. The first winter I went CG I used products with this in it, and my hair always seemed dry. So, if you are leaving some of this in, it could contribute a bit to dry hair. Love it in the summer when I have normal dew points, though.

    Every time I have used an oil, either in conjunction with a product for for SOTC, it makes my hair limp. Oils weigh my fine hair down. Winter usually brings a looser wave anyway and I don't need anything else that exacerbates it.

    The two things that have saved my bacon in winter (for me anyway): the spritz and condish method once every week or so (basically a conditioner pre-poo) and use of a water soluble silicone in my gel (it acts as a moisture barrier like an oil does, but doesn't weigh my hair down or bug my picky skin).
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • cm03cm03 Posts: 24Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Thanks for the reply. I know - I have loved the GVP up till now. Maybe I need to rinse it completely and get a different leave in? Glycerin and humectants still boggle me. I have read dozens of things and it just doesn't compute in my brain re how to determine when to use them.

    For water, it is hard but I have a shower filter installed. Maybe it's time for a new filter - will try that. I forgot to add in my routine that I do have a $$$ chelating shampoo that my devacut lady sold me once and said to use monthly. Kevin Murphy, I think? She also said she thought I had build up but I've not found the poo to make much if any difference. Hmm. Not sure what else to try there?

    I still think I need to try different gels. SOmeone (maybe even you?) mentioned elsewhere that deva gel has a lot of glycerin so maybe that is combining with the GVP to dry me out? It is less dry looking and feelin when I don't use a gel, but I can't not use a gel if I want to look decent. :D Anything specific you find that works well for you in dry weather?
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    You need to get your hands on an ION Crystal Clarifying Treatment packet from Sally's. They keep it behind the counter at mine. It's the only thing I've used for chelating that has actually worked. You don't need shampoo on the day you use the treatment.

    Shower filters usually just filter out chlorine, unless you have an expensive one that specifically says it filters out minerals.

    I had a hard time cowashing when I had hard water. I could only go 2 washes until I needed a low poo.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    My rule of thumb about using humectants:
    in dew points between 40-60, fire away - this is the optimal range for use of humectants.
    in dew points outside of this range - I limit the use of humectants

    For me this means that I rinse out any conditioner with humectants completely. When using a leave in or product, I try to find one where the humectant is very low on the list (preferably one that is absent altogether).

    Dew point is different than relative humidity. I find the nc.com Frizz Forecast to be somewhat inaccurate. Instead I use forecast.weather.gov, usually by googling "dewpoint forecast insert your city here" - and then I can plan my product usage accordingly.

    By moisturizing my hair in other ways than leaving conditioner in, I can minimize or even eliminate the use of a leave in (I don't use much anyway as most leave in conditioners contribute to weighing my fine hair down).

    Hope this helps!
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • cm03cm03 Posts: 24Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    SpiralHam wrote: »
    My rule of thumb about using humectants:
    in dew points between 40-60, fire away - this is the optimal range for use of humectants.
    in dew points outside of this range - I limit the use of humectants

    For me this means that I rinse out any conditioner with humectants completely. When using a leave in or product, I try to find one where the humectant is very low on the list (preferably one that is absent altogether).

    Dew point is different than relative humidity. I find the nc.com Frizz Forecast to be somewhat inaccurate. Instead I use forecast.weather.gov, usually by googling "dewpoint forecast insert your city here" - and then I can plan my product usage accordingly.

    By moisturizing my hair in other ways than leaving conditioner in, I can minimize or even eliminate the use of a leave in (I don't use much anyway as most leave in conditioners contribute to weighing my fine hair down).

    Hope this helps!

    Well, today the dew is 15 and humidity is 22% so this may be a big part of my issue right now. I actually looked up a chart with the daily dews for the whole year last year and there were only maybe 8-10 weeks where they were in that range here! Oops!

    Re the oil, it doesn't usually cause me issues (shea and coconut do) BUT since my waves are pretty wimpy right now I'll try something else.

    I accidentally grabbed the wrong packet from my stash in the drawer this AM and ended up with a protein and moisture Sally's rather than the moisture only I had intended. My hair felt like straw and was so tangled when I do out of the shower I ended up having to detangle AGAIN when I did my leave in, so I think that answered my question on whether I might be getting too much protein. :/

    I had my daughter take a pic after it dried this AM. The wave pattern is even weaker than before because of having to detangle before gel/plopping but hopefully you can see what I mean. I usually have loose spirals and 3D to my pattern but it's pretty stringy and blah. It also just looks dull (not sure why it looks red, it is not!) and has a lot of halo frizz.
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    Sorry to hear about your tangles - my hair eats protein for breakfast, lunch, dinner and a midnight snack, so I'm not so helpful there. You might try looking into the protein sensitive forum to see what folks are liking in winter time over there.

    I'm in either low or high dews for much of the year, so I don't use too many products that are heavy in humectants to start with. If you've never made your own flax seed gel (super cheap and easy), you might give it a try. I go back and forth on using it - it doesn't have enough hold for me by itself, and lately I've been too lazy to layers my products and have gone only with my store bought gel. But, it seems to work for almost all hair types.
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • cm03cm03 Posts: 24Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Still working on tweaking. I changed up my cleanse/condition products with a different V05 (green team month vanilla) and stopped leaving any of the GVP in, instead putting a bit more VO5 or just more of the giovanni. Still using the Deva gel because I don't have anything else yet without glycerin. Going to order some samples from KathyMack to try out a bunch of stuff. My waves are starting to bounce back up and the dry crispy feel is gone so it is getting better for sure. I have a lot of canopy frizz now, but hopefully with some continued tweaks, and maybe getting in for another devacut, it will get back to where it was - just in time for the weather to change again! lol
    Thanks again.

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