Frizz when scrunching?

CinderellyCinderelly Posts: 16Registered Users
Ok, so I'm still pretty new to this, only a little over a week in. However, the one thing I've noticed is how weird my hair is when it comes to frizz. Here's the low-down:

-Very little frizz when wet. Yay, no buildup, I guess.
-About as much frizz when dry. I don't get many fly-aways, so apparently my moisture has been good.
-TONS OF FRIZZ MAGICALLY APPEARS when I scrunch with my tshirt straight out of the shower. Like, poof, all my barely-there clumps are destroyed in a mess of wet stringy frizz. This sort of calms down when it dries, as my curls aren't happy enough yet to clump much when dry (the frizz disappears into fluff). I obviously still scrunch, just to get curl in there, but is this just because of needing more moisture? Will it get better as my hair continues to adjust?

{On a side note, today was the worst hair day since starting CG-mod...it looks like I have straight hair that I brushed out. (Neither of which is true.)

This started when, day before yesterday, I tried the Icequeen method with a bad conditioner I knew had cones in it (and I knew my hair gets over-moisturized easily! What was I thinking?!). My hair was, of course, limp and stringy all day, so the next day, I finished off a batch of IAgirl's PT I had made. When I did the PT before, it was a smashing success, so I thought it would help with the over-moisturizing. (This was after a low-sulfate-poo to get the cones out.) I used VO5 Kiwis (never tried before) as a RO, so as not to over-moisturize again, and scrunched in HETT mousse (also brand new), and my hair is now calm, fluffy, and straight.

I can't figure out what went wrong, besides throwing too many new products/techniques/treatments at my hair too quickly...also, I've had more dry frizz today than in a very long time. So I'm thinking a cowash with the Kiwis might be good...any tips?}
2a/b, fine, low density, normal porosity(??). Getting back into CG-mod after a few years away. :laughing8:

Shampoo: Herbal Essences Naked Moisturizing
Condish: VO5 Kiwis, a little Garnier Fructis Pure Clean
Styler: HETT mousse, Garnier Fructis Pure Clean gel

Apparently hair loves protein and easily gets over-moisturized. Trying to wrangle out a routine that works. :P

Comments

  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    I personally find V05 conditioners to leave a weird film on the hair. I know many here love them. I would recommend using a leave in conditioner, that will help with the fluff. Also, maybe a gel would be better for you than a mousse - it sounds like you need some hold. Also, what low poo did you use after the conditioner with the cone?
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • CinderellyCinderelly Posts: 16Registered Users
    Yeah, I don't have a good LI...I've been sort of leery b/c my hair has been so easily over-moisturized in the past, so I thought a LI would be the quick route to greasy, limp hair. :P My mom has a big bottle of Infusium 23, and the ingredients seem decent, with low/no cones and lots of hydrolyzed protein. I guess I could try that, since it's so light.

    I do have the Garnier Fructis Pure Clean gel, which it seems a lot of people here use. I just water my gels down a little in my hand, as I hate having that glue-y feeling in the ends of my hair.

    My shampoo is the Herbal Essences Naked Moisturizing. It's actually not low sulfate...lots of SLS. I just tried to use as little as I could. I'm sort of balking at spending so much money on products, and don't want to go through so much experimenting (i.e. money)...:P

    In case you're wondering, the cone conditioner was an old Tresemme I had...I think it was called something natural (not the new naturals line), with c & e. And lots of cones. Its label was pink, whatever it was.
    2a/b, fine, low density, normal porosity(??). Getting back into CG-mod after a few years away. :laughing8:

    Shampoo: Herbal Essences Naked Moisturizing
    Condish: VO5 Kiwis, a little Garnier Fructis Pure Clean
    Styler: HETT mousse, Garnier Fructis Pure Clean gel

    Apparently hair loves protein and easily gets over-moisturized. Trying to wrangle out a routine that works. :P
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Though there are other issues going on with your hair right now, I personally find that t shirts frizz my hair out pretty badly, and I actually do better with a microfiber towel (but only squeezing a certain amount with that, as anything beyond causes frizz). It takes experimenting to find out what works.

    While your hair needed clarifying, detergents probably dried it out and you may need more moisture right now. PTs work well in the summer; in the winter people's hair generally need more moisture and not as much protein as in the summer. Also btw in case you didn't know, the detergent needs to be either coco betaine or sulfates to get rid of 'cones.

    I agree with sixelamy; you need something, perhaps a leave in, to get your hair to clump. You need moisture. In the winter if my hair is dry and I just try to apply product it will dry a stringy mess. I either need to make my own leave in or have residue from my rinse out conditioner on my hair. Flax seed gel works well to promote clumping, but I do like to mix it with something with stronger hold so it doesn't weigh down/pull out my curls.

    Edit: We posted at the same time. I see you're like me, easily weighed down by leave in. I'll share my leave in with you:
    Boiling water mixed with a sprig of rosemary, a bag of chamomile tea, and then, in a cheesecloth, I place irish moss powder and marshmallow root powder. I leave it overnight. The irish moss in particular gets my hair to clump well. It's just a water infusion, so like tea, but it moisturizes the hair without weighing it down. You can get irish moss pieces or powder for a few dollars and it lasts a long time. It clumps my hair nicely.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • CinderellyCinderelly Posts: 16Registered Users
    Naturecat--splendidness!! I was thinking to ask you for your homemade LI recipe (yay less money!) and then saw you added it. Thank you so much! :) Just curious...where do you get your irish moss? I've never heard of it, what is it used for besides hair?

    I didn't realize that about winter/summer protein and moisture differences. I live in a high desert climate, with low humidity and lower dew points, and then add winter to that, and slightly hard water. I guess I've been underestimating my moisture needs!
    2a/b, fine, low density, normal porosity(??). Getting back into CG-mod after a few years away. :laughing8:

    Shampoo: Herbal Essences Naked Moisturizing
    Condish: VO5 Kiwis, a little Garnier Fructis Pure Clean
    Styler: HETT mousse, Garnier Fructis Pure Clean gel

    Apparently hair loves protein and easily gets over-moisturized. Trying to wrangle out a routine that works. :P
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Ohh, hard water may mean you need to chelate (get the minerals out) of your hair. There are chelating shampoos for this purpose, and apple cider vinegar can work depending on what is in your water (it works for calcium carbonate which is what is in my water).

    I believe I got my irish moss from Mountain Rose Herbs. Next time I may get whole form as opposed to the powder. If you youtube it for hair, you'll see that people use it to deep condition their hair. People also use it in smoothies and the like. It is the whole food form of Carrageenan, and unlike carrageenan (which is chemically processed), the whole food form is generally thought to be healthy (though I've not tried eating it myself). Some products use it in their formulations (I believe it's in the SS CEJ).

    The only thing with this leave in is if you have high porosity hair you still need to seal it afterwards; otherwise your hair would dry out later on. If you have low porosity hair you needn't worry.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    For chelating I highly recommend ION Crystal Clarifying treatment from Sally's. Chelating shampoos have done nothing for me in the past, but this treatment is fantastic, and no shampoo needed along with it. I would suggest getting a true low poo for washing out cones when you use them. Cones are not the enemy, sulfates and surfactants that can't get them out are what dries the hair out.

    Fluff is dry hair. I don't think you need to worry about over conditioning. If you've truly over conditioned your hair, your hair will feel mushy when it's wet - like you're squeezing seaweed through your fingers. You need some good conditioning. Some cheaper conditioners that I've personally found great for leave in (and rinse out) are: Yes to Cucumbers (this is really light), Yes to Blueberries, and Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture.

    I've tried that Pure Clean Gel - that stuff was awful for me, I really wanted to like it. Maybe a jelly would be good for you since you don't like the glue-y feeling. Kinky Curly makes a great jelly product called Kinky Curly Curling Custard - you can find it at Walgreens and Target (assuming you are in the US, not sure where you live). Shea Moisture also has one, but most people like the Kinky Curly one better. You can also make your own flax seed jelly - which I find to be the ultimate jelly. A lot of people here love the stuff. You can look on YouTube for a video on how to do it - super easy! Just make sure you store it in the fridge if you aren't using a preservative. Also, don't leave it on your hair for 4 days without washing it out - ask me how I know lol.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • CinderellyCinderelly Posts: 16Registered Users
    Ok, interesting! Yeah, our water here is at the least untreated, as lots of ppl have septic tanks and they can't have stuff in the water that would harm the bacteria in said tanks. I did ACV rinses for a while...guess I'll have to try it again!

    Carageenan, you say? Hmm, I wonder if another seaweed thing would work. My mom has Spirulina powder for health purposes, and tho I wouldn't use something that expensive, would a similar healthy seaweed/algae powder work?

    As for porosity, I really don't know. I heard someone on here say that outside of a hair analysis, the most reliable test is dry time. For me, air drying (no plopping) is about a couple hours, and I have fine, thin hair. Does that sound like normal porosity? I really don't know what treatments are for what porosity...

    Thanks again for your time! This is so helpful. :) Oh, and thanks for explaining chelating! I've been wondering forever what that meant. :P

    Edit: Sixelamy--sorry, we posted at the same time. I'll look those products up! I may need to stick to some home made products for a little while though, until my budget is more product-friendly. I do hate buying something and not using it...I wonder if baking soda and conditioner could make a good occasional low-poo!

    So far, I've rather liked the Pure Clean gel. I use a very little bit, and mix it with water in my hand before scrunching in, which is all my very lightweight hair needs. I liked how easily the gel rinsed off my hands--none of that nasty residue that won't come off, so it seems like my hair would benefit as well!
    2a/b, fine, low density, normal porosity(??). Getting back into CG-mod after a few years away. :laughing8:

    Shampoo: Herbal Essences Naked Moisturizing
    Condish: VO5 Kiwis, a little Garnier Fructis Pure Clean
    Styler: HETT mousse, Garnier Fructis Pure Clean gel

    Apparently hair loves protein and easily gets over-moisturized. Trying to wrangle out a routine that works. :P
  • CinderellyCinderelly Posts: 16Registered Users
    Update: I showered last night, and my hair felt weirdly slippery when wet...not normal! I realized I probably hadn't used enough shampoo previously to get all the cones off from that other conditioner. I used quite a bit of my HE SLS stuff, and got all that slipperiness off. I user my Kiwis as a RO/ semi-LI, and scrunched in some watered-down Pure Clean. I am happy to announce that my waves are back, and will be getting proper moisture from now on!! Apparently the cones were the problem.

    Also, as far as scrunching went, I did more grab-and-squeeze rather than all the light up-and-down action. This resulted in way less frizz--I guess it's all in the technique!
    2a/b, fine, low density, normal porosity(??). Getting back into CG-mod after a few years away. :laughing8:

    Shampoo: Herbal Essences Naked Moisturizing
    Condish: VO5 Kiwis, a little Garnier Fructis Pure Clean
    Styler: HETT mousse, Garnier Fructis Pure Clean gel

    Apparently hair loves protein and easily gets over-moisturized. Trying to wrangle out a routine that works. :P
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I imagine there could be other seaweeds that work though I'm not experienced with any of them. I know that people use other seaweeds as thickeners for hold in their hair (agar agar or kudzu), but not necessarily moisture.
    Several hours' drying time doesn't sound like high porosity to me (although if you put product on that could also make it take longer to dry depending on what you use). Usually high porosity is done drying in about an hour or so I think. Maybe your hair is normal porosity.
    Glad to hear your hair is back to normal and healthy.
    Oh also, I found BS to be very drying to my hair. I had better luck with borax. Though when my hair became higher porosity I started using aloe vera mixed with glycerin.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT

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