Feelings on protests that affect other people.

cailin

So this is happening near me today

Protesters with arms in concrete barrels shut down Expressway | Local News - WCVB Home

First of all, I don't know how they got on the highway without getting killed. It's super icy this morning and I think they were all lucky.

Secondly, I absolutely agree with their position. There needs to be a light on police violence. Absolutely.

However, do you think by disrupting the lives of random people trying to get to work takes away from their message? Yes, you're causing work for the police. Yes, you're getting media coverage. But is it going to be positive attention or negative? Does it matter?

Fifi.G

To me it does matter and I know it will matter to several other people. #1. You have to understand that the general public gets upset when a car accident keeps them from getting where they need to go. A bunch of people trying to shut down a road will hardly be well received. #2. It's dangerous, especially on a icy road. Is possibly causing an accident, getting yourself hurt, getting someone else hurt or possibly holding up emergency services from getting to calls where someone else is hurt/not breathing/being attacked/ what have you the way to bring attention to police violence? #3. We're all aware at this point.

ETA: Honestly, I think the protests are on a lot of peoples last nerve now. Does that mean protests are not needed or it is not important to bring things to light? Not hardly! I just fail to see the point of trying to shut down traffic, malls, WWII Vets medal services, lunches, public transportation.... What have you and for several months. Life goes on and life will continue to go on. It goes on for the parents whose child was hit by car, for the family of someone who was killed in gang violence, for the family of someone shot by the police, for the family of the woman murdered by her ex husband, for the family of the officers shot by a man in vengeance. It goes on. Halting holiday shoppers, screaming at kids trying to sing carols, standing over people while they eat and shutting down a subway won't stop this. It won't make anyone care more or less. I think it does run the risk of losing support.

Fifi.G

Where was it recently that a bodycam, which protesters have seemed to be in complete support of, showed that an officer was justified in shooting a man who was attacking him with a shovel and people still protested police brutality in the case??? Utah or somewhere like that. During the recent shooting at a gas station people showed up with in minutes and started a fight with police and were throwing homemade explosives on gas pumps. That gets the Darwin Award for 2014. No one even knew what happened at that point but people were running with a made up story, and just happened to have explosives laying around. Idk. Not much seems helpful or realistic at this point.

scrills

This has been a topic of discussion here because Tamir Rice protesters just down the freeway. My respone " No on had an issue when that same freeway was shut down for weeks to film a movie, why are you so upset about it being shut down for an hour"

spiderlashes5000

It's a guaranteed constitutional right, as long as it's done "peaceably." Is it peaceable? Maybe there's a legal definition or case law precedent available to clarify?

Fifi.G

spiderlashes5000 wrote: »

It's a guaranteed constitutional right, as long as it's done "peaceably." Is it peaceable? Maybe there's a legal definition or case law precedent available to clarify?

I think they have ran into problems with it being done in areas/on grounds wjere protest is not allowed per the owner. Also, it depends on notice being given to the proper people. 2 different areas have pressed criminal charges on arrested protesters. If you have road construction or a movie being filmed that shuts down a road, people are told in advance including emergency services so they can send ambulances on a different route if they get a call somewhere near the area. I promise people complained about the movie, no one noticed. People call 911 to b**ch about a helicopter being landed in the road when someone has horribly been injured in an accident. No joke. It's sad.

Regardless, you have advance notice, people set up with flags or flashing lights to warn travelers of a road closure and safety measures in place. That's not been the case with every protest. *I need to read a little more about some fines put in place too. With the way people sue... Mmmm. I don't see that going well if something bad happens. Say people lose their job because they are caught on a shut down high way or form of public transportation. Emotional distress!! God forbid someone actually die because help was delayed getting to them (or an accident was caused). It won't be pretty and at that point it's not peaceful, no matter how well intended.

scrills

Yes, I realized ppl prob complained. Yes, I realize that notice was given. but my point is.... When it benefits them people are fine with closures/inconvience/whatever.... the person who I said this to wasn't even effected by the close. They live on the opposite side of town and head in the opposite way to go home. But yet, they were still complaining.

Taking the 911 calls out of this (and permits and timing and whatever else), I'm ok wiht it. If the KKK has a rally, i would have to shrug and keep it moving. It's their right

Fifi.G

^ Gotcha! And the KKK usually gets their permit pulled, or at least they did the last time they came from Michigan and tried to rally in Charlotte. JC! Stay in your own town.


I simply don't get the locations of a lot of the protests. What is holding up traffic for an hour or two going to do? Are people really going to stop amd reflect? Not likely. I also don't want to see anyone putting themselves or others at risk when there is no need to. The protests are over loss of life. That's counter productive. On the other hand I have seen pictures of some rather small and thought provoking protests/performance pieces. Really neat.

cailin

Scrills, I totally get what you're saying, I do. However to go on Fifi's point, there was no way to plan detours or emergency routes. A trauma patient had to be diverted to a smaller hospital because the couldn't get to Boston Medical.

But regardless of the traffic and such; if you're trying to enact change, if you want to be heard or to shine a spotlight on an important issue....is this the way to go about it?

scrills

hmm, let's see. Hold a protest in front of some random building or on some random town square, or a place with a ton of traffic and that will get attention

scrills

cailin wrote: »

Scrills, I totally get what you're saying, I do. However to go on Fifi's point, there was no way to plan detours or emergency routes. A trauma patient had to be diverted to a smaller hospital because the couldn't get to Boston Medical.

But regardless of the traffic and such; if you're trying to enact change, if you want to be heard or to shine a spotlight on an important issue....is this the way to go about it?

This could also happen with a downed power lined, flooding, an accident, a fallen tree, bad weather, car fire, a blown out tire, etc. A number of things can block a highway. I was once stopped on a highway because a gang of stray dogs were on the freeway and people had parked (on the highway) to try to get them off. I called 911 and was told I wasn't the first caller. So the question would be did the 911 operator alert (or have a system to alert) other emergency units

It sounds like emergency units need to a better means to relay this information to each other.

eveum

Don't care what they're protesting about. The second they put other peoples lives at risk I will give zero ****s about their protest. End of.

Political protests should be demonstrated somewhere meaningful where you'll get a lot of foot traffic and people who can actually see what you're trying to say. If you're stuck behind a big line of cars you're not going to know what the **** is going on, never mind the message these idiots tried to convey. Holding up a motorway will get nothing but annoyance from almost everyone involved.

spiderlashes5000

cailin wrote: »

Scrills, I totally get what you're saying, I do. However to go on Fifi's point, there was no way to plan detours or emergency routes. A trauma patient had to be diverted to a smaller hospital because the couldn't get to Boston Medical.

But regardless of the traffic and such; if you're trying to enact change, if you want to be heard or to shine a spotlight on an important issue....is this the way to go about it?

That's really messed up. I didn't realize they were blocking the freeway completely. I thought you meant they were alongside the freeway. That is very reckless. Not what I, in my lay opinion, would consider a peaceable assembly.

CurlyCanadian

spiderlashes5000 wrote: »

cailin wrote: »

Scrills, I totally get what you're saying, I do. However to go on Fifi's point, there was no way to plan detours or emergency routes. A trauma patient had to be diverted to a smaller hospital because the couldn't get to Boston Medical.

But regardless of the traffic and such; if you're trying to enact change, if you want to be heard or to shine a spotlight on an important issue....is this the way to go about it?

That's really messed up. I didn't realize they were blocking the freeway completely. I thought you meant they were alongside the freeway. That is very reckless. Not what I, in my lay opinion, would consider a peaceable assembly.

That's how I understood it as well.

Blocking the road those is idiotic. You just need one person to think they'll drive through the people to prove their point!

cailin

scrills wrote: »

cailin wrote: »

Scrills, I totally get what you're saying, I do. However to go on Fifi's point, there was no way to plan detours or emergency routes. A trauma patient had to be diverted to a smaller hospital because the couldn't get to Boston Medical.

But regardless of the traffic and such; if you're trying to enact change, if you want to be heard or to shine a spotlight on an important issue....is this the way to go about it?

This could also happen with a downed power lined, flooding, an accident, a fallen tree, bad weather, car fire, a blown out tire, etc. A number of things can block a highway. I was once stopped on a highway because a gang of stray dogs were on the freeway and people had parked (on the highway) to try to get them off. I called 911 and was told I wasn't the first caller. So the question would be did the 911 operator alert (or have a system to alert) other emergency units

It sounds like emergency units need to a better means to relay this information to each other.

We could debate this forever, but traffic issue aside, is this an effective way to deliver a message.


If I'm trying to make change in the world is this the best way to do it? Because all the news is focusing on is the traffic jam, not the message of the group.

cailin

spiderlashes5000 wrote: »

That's really messed up. I didn't realize they were blocking the freeway completely. I thought you meant they were alongside the freeway. That is very reckless. Not what I, in my lay opinion, would consider a peaceable assembly.

In two places, north of Boston they were stretched across the highway linked together by, I don't know they looked like finger traps to me, and south of the city they were sitting on the ground with one arm shoulder deep in concrete in a 55 gal drum.


That one took longer to clear out. They had to get EMT's and Fire fighters to cut them out of the concrete before moving them.


Personally I'd rather people talk about the cause I'm supporting and start a dialogue than just get commuters mad. What has mad ever solved?

CurlyCanadian

They cemented themselves in barrels?? That's insane!

Lotsawaves

There are things that happen that are unintentional. It is irritating and affects our lives. We deal with it. Intentional pisses me off. Especially, if I don't care to participate.

spiderlashes5000

Ppl need to storm their statehouse and the White House and City Hall, etc. They should be outside the mayor and governor's private residences the police headquarters, the governor's office, the county seat, etc. humiliating them and forecasting the commotion with press releases and media advisories to ever news outlet on record. Just plz be considerate of your neighbors......

eta -- Didn't the Supreme Court rule "you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater"? Blocking the freeway is really tantamount to that IMO. Somebody couldn't get to the ER???? I'd charge every last one of the criminally and sue each of them civilly it had been my child.

curlyarca

I think protests that slow traffic are generally fine; blocking traffic completely for a short period of time is fine; but blocking traffic completely for an extended period of time is another issue. I'm going to guess they did not have a permit. That said, where would we, i.e., the USA, be without protests (especially the inconvenient ones)?
Selma to Montgomery March (1965)

Thank goodness the things happening in the 60s happened as soon as they did, otherwise I'm sure people countrywide would be quite bothered by all the fuss, especially if it messed up their commutes.

Issues like this are usually of the "Ish get's real when it's happening to [you]" variety. When the right people become the targets of bad behavior, change will happen. The trick is figuring out how to get those right people involved in a way that actually shines a light on the problem without making the organizers look like "outside agitators" or manipulators.

spiderlashes5000

curlyarca wrote: »

I think protests that slow traffic are generally fine; blocking traffic completely for a short period of time is fine; but blocking traffic completely for an extended period of time is another issue. I'm going to guess they did not have a permit. That said, where would we, i.e., the USA, be without protests (especially the inconvenient ones)?
Selma to Montgomery March (1965)

Thank goodness the things happening in the 60s happened as soon as they did, otherwise I'm sure people countrywide would be quite bothered by all the fuss, especially if it messed up their commutes.

Issues like this are usually of the "Ish get's real when it's happening to [you]" variety. When the right people become the targets of bad behavior, change will happen. The trick is figuring out how to get those right people involved in a way that actually shines a light on the problem without making the organizers look like "outside agitators" or manipulators.

The Semla, AL marchers complied w/ judge-imposed safety precautions, tho.

scrills

I was listening to NPR yesterday and this guy made a comment that we remember that the protests in the 60s were peaceful, but we forget that they were disruptive. They disrupted both traffic and business. Reminded me of this thread.

ultracurlz

Protesters do things like this because no one will pay attention if they don't. If they picketed in a little grassy area they would probably not be mentioned except as maybe as a side note.

They don't want their cause to be a side note. Unlike all those people complaining that they are in the way, the protesters can't or refuse to just ignore the bad thing that happened. They want to CHANGE things. Saying "that is so sad" or "that shouldn't have happened" doesn't make the dead come back to life or keep others from being killed. It also doesn't punish those who killed them.

It doesn't change the way people view black people. But if they inconvenience everyone? Point out in a very loud and annoying way that, HEY WE ARE STILL DYING OVER HERE, then yeah, maybe things will change. Maybe people who have more push haven't heard of the new developments (or non developments) will be reminded and go "Wait, something isn't right," and help them push towards change.

If they don't keep making this very public then it will fade away.

In case you haven't noticed MLK did the same thing. (I'm saying that seriously not to be snarky, sorry if it sounded that way) He was all about peaceful, in the way, protesting. To make things better you need to get peoples attention, and KEEP it.

So basically, yes, it is annoying. But things need to change and this is one way they know how to do it.