Limp, stringy, sad hair...Should I just go back to sulfates/straightening?

horsejumper

Hi guys! I've been a long-time lurker, but my hair is really struggling right now and I need help desperately!

I'm working with 2a hair at the moment, and my goal is to go back to at least 2b, where I have been. (It was a 2c-ish before I went on birth control a few years ago )

I cannot give my hair life...It just hangs there, though it's notably worse by the end of the day. This really only started happening in the past few months. I've tried everything--a water filter in my shower and using Malibu Hard Water Treatment (wasn't sure if the water was to blame...I lived somewhere else for the summer before returning back home), trying different shampoos/conditioners/products (including the ones I've been using perfectly for the past year or so), I did a protein treatment w/ Knox gelatin. NOTHING IS WORKING!

It's pretty healthy: not many split ends, soft, frizzy only around crown (worse than it has been, though). Before I started a no sulfate/cone/heat regiment, it was coarse, more split ends, and more frizz. It doesn't seem dry, and my scalp isn't oily.

The shampoo/conditioner I've been using:
Old favorites:
Nature's Gate Tea Tree Shampoo and Herbal Daily Conditioner (did
OK with this for about a year)
New "rotations":
DevaCurl Low Poo and One conditioner, SheaMoisture Coconut and
Hibiscus (took that right back), John Freida Volumizing, AG Recoil

Products (I've been going quite light with them in order to avoid adding weight):
John Frieda Curl Perfecting Spray, Aussie Sprunch Hair Spray,
DevaCurl Light Defining Gel, JessieCurl Confident Coils and Rockin'
Ringlets, Pantene No Crunch Curls Whip

I straighten my hair once or twice a month, diffuse once-ish a week, and let it air dry the rest of the time. I find that diffusing it with CatWalk Curlesque Curl Amplifier (or even J. Frieda Curl spray) provides much more volume and curl, but it still slowly starts to sag throughout the day. I had a Devacurl stylist cut it recently, so it shouldn't be in need of a trim or anything.

I'm about at the point where I almost want to go back to sulfates and/or predominately straightening it. I hate what it's doing. It seems to me to be a choice between "damaged but more volume and curl" vs. "healthy but stupid and limp". I'm not sure if I'm just having a patience issue, because typically I give a product one or two tries and if I don't see a difference, I take it back--do I need to be using product for longer before making a decision? I just need help. :sad1:

One other issue I have: I part my hair on the left side, and the hair that goes over to the right side (the hair on top) WON'T CURL. The underpart does, but not the top. Tricks to fix this? The second to last and last pics in the album shows what I'm talking about.

My goal is low-maintenance (and preferably budget-friendly!) care that allows me to air-dry with some oomph (curls and volume would both be appreciated).

Let me know if you need clarification (which is likely, 'cuz this is a lot!).

EDIT!
If it helps, here's some pictures. Completely natural (Nature's Gate poo and conditioner) vs. DevaCurl conditioner and gel. Picture 5 is the worst.
https://imgur.com/a/BQqv6#5

NvmbrCurlss

The weather change could be weighing you down... Lighter conditioners generally work better for my hair when dew points drop and the temp dries out come winter/fall. Not sure about weather in your area...but maybe start with lightening up on the oils or she aim the shower...?

NvmbrCurlss

Or shea...in the shower.

kathymack

You said, "Before I started a no sulfate/cone/heat regiment." I'm unfamiliar with a lot of the products you use, but most of those brands a full of 'cones. Are you still doing the no sulfate/cone/heat regime?? If so, that could be a big part of your problem.

I use curl towels to pull a lot of water from my hair and then diffuse on high for a few minutes with a professional dryer (upside down for part of the time.) It makes a HUGE difference in obtaining volume. I had two major surgeries in the Spring. Lost a lot of hair from what was already low density. I stopped the diffusing for about a month because I really wanted to treat my hair with TLC. It looked awful--flat with no volume. Went back to the diffusing and it made a world of difference.

horsejumper

I don't use any oils

horsejumper

kathymack wrote: »

You said, "Before I started a no sulfate/cone/heat regiment." I'm unfamiliar with a lot of the products you use, but most of those brands a full of 'cones. Are you still doing the no sulfate/cone/heat regime?? If so, that could be a big part of your problem.

I use curl towels to pull a lot of water from my hair and then diffuse on high for a few minutes with a professional dryer (upside down for part of the time.) It makes a HUGE difference in obtaining volume. I had two major surgeries in the Spring. Lost a lot of hair from what was already low density. I stopped the diffusing for about a month because I really wanted to treat my hair with TLC. It looked awful--flat with no volume. Went back to the diffusing and it made a world of difference.

The Nature's Gate is free of cones, sulfates, and pretty much everything that's bad for hair. That's what I've been using for the past year and a half. When this problem starting developing in August, I started trying to add others into the mix--of all the shampoos I've tried, none contain sulfates except the John Freida, which I've only used once, just this past week. Of all the conditioners, Recoil and Frieda have cones, but I've only used them a handful of times combined, and well after the problems already started.

horsejumper

NvmbrCurlss wrote: »

The weather change could be weighing you down... Lighter conditioners generally work better for my hair when dew points drop and the temp dries out come winter/fall. Not sure about weather in your area...but maybe start with lightening up on the oils or she aim the shower...?

Also, this problem began in August, so I don't think the weather change is related.

noodly

.

hallamaa

Have you tried twists, buns or braids? They can work for wavy hair too

For me it's the only way to get some volume with air drying. Try washing your hair in the evening, apply some light styling products (for example mousse), wait for it to be something like 95% dry and then roll your hair into a desired bun/braid/twist. Obviously different types of buns/braids/twists will give completely different results.

My personal favourite is really simple, I just roll all the hair into a twisty bun on top of my head. I takes something lik 30 seconds to do and then I head to bed. Since I have to use shampoo and do clarifying washes anyways, I often spray some hair spray to set the style (I have used Giovanni L.A. Hold Hair Spritz or Aubrey Natural Missst Herbal Hair Spray in Medium Hold). Yes, I know pretty much all hair sprays contain alcohol and other ingredients that might not be so good, but I'm willing to take the some damage if it makes me hate my hair less.

Maybe you shouldn't be too afraid of diffusing? If you have a blowdryer that has settings so you can put it on low heat or cold and low blast with a diffuser attachment the damage caused is minimal. Sometimes I have felt that my hair takes more damage if I let it air dry because it takes soooo looong. Having the hair stay in vulnerable wet stage for 5 hours after each wash might do equal or even more damage than low heat/no heat gentle diffusing (I'm no scientist on this, this is just a hunch and personal experience).

chupie

DEFinitely try a clarify. So often when this happens you need a reboot.

horsejumper

I'll definitely give it a try! I have two questions though! 1) How is a clarifying shampoo different than a normal shampoo? (For example, I usually use this) 2) What would my hair need to be "clarified" of, since I haven't been using many cones, etc.?

Also, thoughts on Elucence Volume Clarifying? It got really good reviews here in the product section. Or would you recommend something else?

chupie

horsejumper wrote: »

I'll definitely give it a try! I have two questions though! 1) How is a clarifying shampoo different than a normal shampoo? (For example, I usually use this) 2) What would my hair need to be "clarified" of, since I haven't been using many cones, etc.?

Also, thoughts on Elucence Volume Clarifying? It got really good reviews here in the product section. Or would you recommend something else?

Oils and other things can build up even if they aren't cones. I use a diluted sulfate shampoo. Just some Suave or whatever.

horsejumper

I clarified last week, to no avail.

horsejumper

Actually, I just found out the John Frieda shampoo I used once last week is clarifying, and that didn't help.

SpiralHam

I would have done the clarifying too - that usually helps me when me hair gets gross like that. Like chupie I use a Suave poo, whatever my hubby is using at the time. Check your Freida shampoo for cones or anything that might be hanging around.

August for me was when the dew points started shifting, on and off. I live in the upper midwest. So, if your hair might be sensitive to humectants in your styling products (mine is), that could be something to consider. I tend not to use leave in conditioners, maybe just a teensy weensy bit in super low dews. And I do mean teensy.

Like kathymack, I do take a fair amount of water out of my hair after the shower. I've found that for my fine hair, water weight just drags it down. I'll use a spray bottle if I find the ends need a little more moisture. Usually the top of my hair retains plenty of moisture, but the ends need a little help.

Likewise, air drying for me tends to drag everything down - it's just gravity. I pixie diffuse to set the gel and then let it air dry the rest of the way. I've never gotten good at plopping, it is a total disaster for me.

A hard hold gel is a must for me. I was resistant to using them when I started taking better care of my hair, but I have to use them. It has made the world of difference for me. I use a really gloopy, grabby gel like Volumax Mega as it tends to stick my clumps together like superglue and I don't get the stringy thing going on. Certain products contribute to stringiness for me, others don't. Right now a mousse/gel combo is a real winner for me.

Good luck - troubleshooting lends itself to only so much patience.


ETA: there are parts of my hair that don't curl like other parts of my hair as well (I have 4 distinctly different curl patterns). That's just the way my hair grows and there's nothing I can do to change it, so finding a way to cut it or style it that helps it all blend together it my only saving grace. Fortunately I have a stylist that loves to work with my hair just the way it is.

chupie

John Frieda usually has cones in it.

kathymack

Check the shampoo for polyquats. I noticed that a lot of shampoos have 7. I also have issues with 4 and 10. They adhere to my hair (Curl Chemist says they don't build up) and are VERY difficult to remove. I had to do a sulfate shampoo several times to remove them.

rbb

in her article on polyquats, tonya does not say they do not build up. here is what she reports:

The data indicates that PQ-4, PQ-10, and PQ-44 do not create problems with buildup if one uses a mild shampoo, and each can provide good benefits either in conditioning or styling. There are others that cause more problems with build-up, such as PQ-11 and guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride. One recent question was about PQ-37, and while I cannot find specific data on its removability at this time, it looks potentially problematic to me based upon its structure.

As always, choose your products carefully, get samples when you can, and see what works for your hair.

i think it depends on your hair and your cleansing routine.

joybox

I have the same issue. My hair looked better, more volumous and defined curls but damaged. Now it's healthy, but looks limp and stupid.

I have no idea where to go from here.

kathymack

rbb wrote: »

in her article on polyquats, tonya does not say they do not build up. here is what she reports:

The data indicates that PQ-4, PQ-10, and PQ-44 do not create problems with buildup if one uses a mild shampoo, and each can provide good benefits either in conditioning or styling. There are others that cause more problems with build-up, such as PQ-11 and guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride. One recent question was about PQ-37, and while I cannot find specific data on its removability at this time, it looks potentially problematic to me based upon its structure.

As always, choose your products carefully, get samples when you can, and see what works for your hair.

i think it depends on your hair and your cleansing routine.

Her comment was a response to a post I made on CurlTalk about polyquats causing buildup on my hair, not in an article.

If you're using shampoo, mild or not, that contains a polyquat, I would think that it wouldn't leave your hair polyquat free.

rbb

horsejumper -- even when hair properties are identical, our hair is extremely individual, different. plus we all use very different products and have very different routines. it's an educated guess and trial and error with our hair.

here is one article the curl chemist wrote about this:
Low-Shampoo or Co-Wash Routines and Polyquats

there are other articles on polyquats. the bottom line is to pay attention to polyquats and see how your hair behaves.
just a note -- i think i would not use a shampoo, low poo, cowash with polyquats, not sure how the cleansing works in those cases.

Mei

What works for me is to clarify with something that has sulfates but not a whole lot else in it. The Body Shop's Ginger shampoo works best for me to clarify. Some people can get away with cheap sulfate shampoos but I can't.

If your hair really is stringy... You're using a product that has something (oil?) in it that your hair doesn't like. As a med-high (I think?) porosity gal, lots of conditioners give me stringy hair because they contain too much oil... Or too much of something.

I would try a clarify again, making sure to really lather it up from scalp to ends, rinse well, add a super light conditioner (I don't know if you can get Calia brand there, but it's awesome), making sure to put conditioner on only from ear length to ends, then rinse really well. What I do to add moisture to my hair is scrunch in a small amount of the same conditioner while gently squeezing out excess water. Then I plop for about an hour. My hair is still damp when I take it out of the t-shirt. Then I add a light spray-in conditioner, very light mist to the crown so to not weigh it down or cause product buildup on my scalp, and currently I'm using Got2b's Kinky Curl Cream... But the mousse works for me too. Gels are too heavy so I stay away from them. Then... I diffuse. If I don't diffuse, I don't get my 2C curls... Only 2A canopy and 2B underlay with air drying. I would really try to diffuse with a curling cream or light mousse in if I were you. I would diffuse with warm air it until it's dry and then diffuse with cold air to set it.