What would you do with this mess? Pics

ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
Im new to the no poo method and using products specifically for curly hair. I am in the first month and have no idea if im doing anything right.
I think I have 2A, low poro, medium texture, low density and medium length hair that is neither all wavy or all straight. For the past 5 years I have kept it in a bob wedged towards the front cuz it just is easier to keep it straight. I have been tryin the deva curl line of no poo conditioner cleanser, one conditioner, with the light gel curl definer. I also bought some suave clarifying shampoo and shea moisture conditioner to use when my deva curl runs out. I just absolutely hate my hair and want to cry when I see pictures of myself. I think I might start wearing wigs. What would you do with this?
CG since 11/2014
Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
Low density, very coarse, high porosity
Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
RO: GVP CB
Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
Protein: Hask Keratin
Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
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Comments

  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,276Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    You have a LOT of wave on there. I suspect a lot of that straightest stuff is big time heat damage. Have you tried coconut oil pre-poo treatments? Also you might try protein treatments. A nice entry level product is Ion Effective care at Sallys. Lots of this is just going to take patience on your part. I use diluted Suave Clarifying shampoo probably once a week. I dilute about 2 tsp in 4 oz of water. Plenty of cleansing power without stripping. Do you use a leave in conditioner at all? I highly suspect you need to grow out you damage and is also bet money if you did you'd have 2 b/c spirals. But if you straighten you will just keep damaging it. You see all that spiraling in back? I bet you don't apply as much heat as long as you do in front. AND if I were you I'd try to find a curly hair specialist to cut my hair. What state do you live in? But for sure I'd try coconut oil (put it through the length golf you hair - enough to look like you've had the flu for a week) and leave it over night. Use a dilute mix of the clarifying on your hair that day. And I would definitely try a protein treatment. Even just some beer as a rinse between your wash and your conditioner would help. I wound try a deep condition once a week. Just take your richest conditioner and work it through the Ends, wrap up in a flour sack towel and if you have a good dryer sit under it or use your blow dryer on hot and keep that towel warm. Try to do that for 15 min. Then let it stay on another 45 and then rinse well. You might even need to poo a little after it but use a light hand. ALSO get a satin pillow case. I can't tell you how much discovered the cotton ones suck moonstone out of your hair. My hair gets this look when I go back to using cotton cases. HUGE difference. None of this will change over night but it will get better. And if you need to pull it all back for a while so it but don't use a straightener on your hair. I'd swear sideways that at least three inches of that hair is bad heat damage. You can get it looking better but the real wave won't come back until you trim it out. You, my dear, are going to have fabulous hair if you can use some patience. Also technique is huge. In my if nature is a link to several technique videos I've made. Take a look and see if you can use some of that. I just see gigantic potential in your hair!!!!
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Thank you for the quick reply! Yes I agree, it is probably completely ruined from heat. To answer the questions in your post, no I have not used a pre-poo routine at all. I don't know how to do it or what to buy. I don't use leave in products because they usually make my hair feel icky and pull out the waves. If I was flat ironing, I would use a teensy bit of straightening serum or heat protectant spray. It feels super rough and dry and its SO THIN! And it falls out so much I cant get it to grow very long. I haven't tried protein because I am just so new and confused. Ive read protein dries hair out. I feel like it needs moisture but I am so confused over what products to use.


    So do a prepoo coconut oil from Sallys? Before EVERY wash, which is like every other day or three days or so?


    And a deep conditioning treatment weekly? Like VO5 hot oil? Does it matter what ingredients are in it?


    And a protein treatment like a beer rinse...at every wash?


    And a deep conditioner once a week? Im not sure I understand what a deep conditioner is. Again, do ingredients matter?


    I will look for a satin pillow case for sure. Man that is looking to be a lot of maintenance. I can try to get as much done in the half hour before heading to work as I can, I leave the house at 630 in the mornings. Also I should mention that I am going to try Natural Instincts semi permanent hair color for gray roots that appear every three weeks or so, instead of permanent color like I have been doing for years.


    Thank you for the encouragement. Im at my wits end and I don't even want to leave the house with this mess. Im in Oklahoma City and I could look for a salon that does dry cuts. I am starting to resent my current stylist. I think I will stop going to her.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,276Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    ttoosday wrote: »
    Thank you for the quick reply! Yes I agree, it is probably completely ruined from heat. To answer the questions in your post, no I have not used a pre-poo routine at all. I don't know how to do it or what to buy. I don't use leave in products because they usually make my hair feel icky and pull out the waves. If I was flat ironing, I would use a teensy bit of straightening serum or heat protectant spray. It feels super rough and dry and its SO THIN! And it falls out so much I cant get it to grow very long. I haven't tried protein because I am just so new and confused. Ive read protein dries hair out. I feel like it needs moisture but I am so confused over what products to use.


    So do a prepoo coconut oil from Sallys? Before EVERY wash, which is like every other day or three days or so?

    You can get coconut oil at any grocery store. You can get Ion Effective Care, a high protein conditioner at Sally's. I'd start with one treatment and see how your hair likes it. Coconut is an oil that will soak into your hair and help strengthen it. It helps retain your protein so the hair stays stronger. I'd sure try that first. Here is a video on how to do coconut oil treatments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbomOVvpb1s&list=PLFYjbZ17MrgJ1JbnmtZSVXyX5yTXmsdJ7 Honestly, most people can do it once a week. Some do it before every wash for at least a few minutes. You have to see how your hair responds.


    And a deep conditioning treatment weekly? Like VO5 hot oil? Does it matter what ingredients are in it?
    No, like I said you can just use your Deva One Condition. But work it through, wrap it in a towel and use either a hard hat dryer if you have one or your blow dryer to keep the towel warm for at least 15 minutes. You could rinse then or try leaving it in another 40 minutes or so without the heat. Let it soak in and soften your hair. I'd do it at least weekly.
    And a protein treatment like a beer rinse...at every wash?
    No, maybe every two weeks. Kind of depends on how your hair responds. Some people can do it weekly others once a month. OR you can get some Ion Effective Care at Sally's. If you do that, you don't need the beer. Beer would be a fast and dirty way to get some protein in. I can use it once a week even.
    And a deep conditioner once a week? Im not sure I understand what a deep conditioner is. Again, do ingredients matter?

    There are lots of deep conditioners you can buy but honestly you can start with just the Deva since you have it. Eventually you'll figure out what conditioners your hair likes and maybe even just take a favorite conditioner and add a few things. OR you'll find one you like and stick to that but for now, I see no problem with starting with just doing as described above with your Deva OC.
    I will look for a satin pillow case for sure. Man that is looking to be a lot of maintenance. I can try to get as much done in the half hour before heading to work as I can, I leave the house at 630 in the mornings. Also I should mention that I am going to try Natural Instincts semi permanent hair color for gray roots that appear every three weeks or so, instead of permanent color like I have been doing for years.
    Well, once you do it for a while, it's not as maintenance heavy but you have a lot of damage so right now it's a lot of maintenance if you want to get it healthy. It also helps your hair to put coconut oil in it before you color. It'll protect it and help you from losing protein.

    You won't have to do all of this every day. But yeah, for a while I'd do it once a week. The coconut deal is over night, so just put it in the night before you intend to wash in the morning. No big deal. Deep conditioning or protein treatments are a little bigger deal. Save it for a day off. Sleeping on a satin pillow case, no extra time.
    Thank you for the encouragement. Im at my wits end and I don't even want to leave the house with this mess. Im in Oklahoma City and I could look for a salon that does dry cuts. I am starting to resent my current stylist. I think I will stop going to her.

    Look up some nice updos you can do for now. I stroooooongly strongly encourage you to NOT iron AT ALL. Or you will just kill it further. But it isn't going to get fabulous over night but I really do think you will see an improvement. Check the salon finder on this site, the Deva stylist finder on the Deva site or look for a Curly Hair artist on this list Curly Hair Artistry – Global Stylist Listing | Scott Musgrave Hair and see if here is someone near you to help you with this. a GOOD cut, with a curly artist (especially from Curly Hair Artistry - they will help you learn about your hair) could be a real boon to you. If there isn't anyone from these near you, find someone who has heard of the Curly Girl method at least or who had curly hair themselves and wears it curly.

    Speaking of, have you heard of the Curly Girl Method? Here is a starting place How to Follow the Curly Girl Method The only caveat is wavies often can only co-wash part of the time or not at all. It depends. But again, just really dilute regular shampoo then if it causes an issue. You need barely any shampoo really mixed in water to clean your hair.

    And take a look at my videos (and others) to see different techniques. Technique is 60% of the battle IMO. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Awesome! Thank you so much!
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • GypsycurlGypsycurl Posts: 15Registered Users
    You also might want to try something other than the Deva gel. Deva is amazing for my hair but, I find if I don't use it sparingly (less than four times a week) my hair starts looking fried.

    Also, I find it builds up (even though they say it doesn't). So, the no poo might not be washing it out of your hair.

    Honestly, I know it can be really hard when it is your head (oh, how I know) but I see really pretty hair under all that. Stick with this site and I predict great hair in your future.
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    So far I think the devacurl no poo does a good job of cleansing, tho I have nothing to compare it to yet. It feels pretty clean for three or more days afterwards. I don't know if the one conditioner does a good job or not. I mean, the hair feels dry and rough and and sure doesn't look good. Maybe because I'm entirely off about my porosity or maybe it is just going yo take a long time to feel different. I don't know.
    I hate to give up too early on any products, so how will I know if they are or are not working if it is going to take months before the hair improves?
    Let me get this off my chest, please.
    I also think my biggest war (a losing battle, no less) is going to be with density. I have a third of the hair as most people. How is that fair!? It took a decade to learn that my thin hair was never going to be long thick and beautiful. It just is not in the cards for me. So I spent the next decade straightening or adding curls with an iron probably 85% of the time, mainly as a reaction to my hair looking ugly otherwise.
    I don't even know what my motivation for doing cg is.... except maybe by some miracle my hair will transform into Julia Roberts waves or something if I'm nice to it for a change. I guess having a cute stacked bob cut made me realize something -ok maybe my hair is normal and capable of a cute style (a cute short, straight style.) So I'm worried I will put years worth of effort into cg only to realize my hair is still as awful as it always has been.
    Ok vent over. Back to the point, I hope I can find good products. Oh and I got my satin pillowcases so that part's a go.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • eveumeveum Posts: 744Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    First of all I think that in order to get the most of your hair you should lessen up on the damage as it looks quite dry, heat damage. Be gentle. I would aim to get moisture back in check.

    I don't think your hair looks naturally thin, but I think the ends look scraggly or a bit thinned out. If I was in your position I would get a good cut, maybe back into the bob shape? Because right now to me it looks sort of in-between that and shoulder length. Hair always looks and feels thicker after a cut.

    Don't fret, you have some good wave in there and a lot of potential. It will take a lot of learning and trial and error to get your hair to be healthy and the best it can be but it's worth it. Good luck and keep us updated! :)

    Low Shampoo: Aveda Be Curly Shampoo
    Conditioner: Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture/ Perfectly Undone
    Treatments: SM Black Castor Oil Masque/ Packet Gelatine
    Leave in: Redken Diamond Oil Conditioner
    Styling: AG Recoil Curl Activator/V05 Mega Hold/Cornstarch
    Refresh: Redken Fresh Curls Curl Boost


    Between Waist and Hip Length (stretched), 2C with 2B roots
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,276Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    What Eveum said. No matter what you hair is you want it to be healthy so you know it's full potential. And frankly the more you dance it and break it off the more it will look thin whether or not it is. You are stuck in a cycle and it will take a while to get it healthier.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I think your hair has lots of potential. Esp with the photo of the back of your head, very nice waves/curls. You just need to get moisture back in your hair, and start to grow out the heat damage. For inspiration there's this thread of before and after starting the CG method:
    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/47609-post-your-before-after-cg-pics.html
    Just remember that there is usually a 5 or 6 month learning curve with this. I *just* discovered what technique and products are working for me (still a work in progress) and it's been about 6 months. It's worth it at the end.
    My hair looked very thin and almost straight when I first started because I had no idea what I was doing. I've shed a lot of hair due to health issues but with the right products and techniques my hair now looks so much fuller and curlier and healthy! Your hair looks much nicer than mine did to start with IMO.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I, too, would suggest a good cut to shape your hair and get rid of the tips. A good cut is the foundation for everything else. When one has low density hair, longer just makes it look stringier. Once it's shaped, with appropriate layers, you can start working on ingredients/products and learning techniques that your hair likes.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jakrussel3jakrussel3 Posts: 423Registered Users
    Yeah, a lot of that is heat damage. A good cut and a lot of deep treatment moisturizing will help, but it won't look it's best until all that damage is gone. It could take awhile. For me, it took about a year before my hair was looking really, really good. My hair was damaged from hair dye and a blow dryer. The Deva Care One Condition helped me a ton that first year. I used the low poo to scrub my scalp (avoiding the length of my hair) and then the One Condition on the length. Your hair has a ton of potential. When the damaged bits grow out and are eventually are cut off, you're going to have a beautiful head of hair. Please don't give up!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Hair Properties: 2A/2B, Medium-fine, Normal porosity, Normal elasticity, Medium density
    Low Poo: DevaCare, Yes to Cuc's
    Rinse Out: DevaCare One Condition, Yes to Cuc's
    Cowash: Suave Naturals Lavender, Yes to Carrots Scalp Conditioner
    Curl Cream: AG ReCoil, Organix Moroccan Oil Curl Cream
    Gel/Mousse: Sweet Curls Elixirs FSG w/ Mag Sulfate added, Sweet Curls Elixirs hard hold gel, DevaCurl Frizz Free Foam, Aquage Uplifting Foam
    Protein: Spiral Solutions Protein Spray for daily use
  • jakrussel3jakrussel3 Posts: 423Registered Users
    You can see some of my progression photos in my signature, but here are larger pics of my very first day going CG in Jan 2012 and my hair now nearly 3 years later. The one where I'm wearing brown and in a public restroom is the Day 1 photo. The other 2 were taken last month. In one, my hair is looser. In the other, I had just clarified my hair (we've got hard water, so it builds up) and done my normal styling and diffused. I use a hard hold flax seed gel for my styling product these days.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Hair Properties: 2A/2B, Medium-fine, Normal porosity, Normal elasticity, Medium density
    Low Poo: DevaCare, Yes to Cuc's
    Rinse Out: DevaCare One Condition, Yes to Cuc's
    Cowash: Suave Naturals Lavender, Yes to Carrots Scalp Conditioner
    Curl Cream: AG ReCoil, Organix Moroccan Oil Curl Cream
    Gel/Mousse: Sweet Curls Elixirs FSG w/ Mag Sulfate added, Sweet Curls Elixirs hard hold gel, DevaCurl Frizz Free Foam, Aquage Uplifting Foam
    Protein: Spiral Solutions Protein Spray for daily use
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    jakrussel3 wrote: »
    You can see some of my progression photos in my signature, but here are larger pics of my very first day going CG in Jan 2012 and my hair now nearly 3 years later. The one where I'm wearing brown and in a public restroom is the Day 1 photo. The other 2 were taken last month. In one, my hair is looser. In the other, I had just clarified my hair (we've got hard water, so it builds up) and done my normal styling and diffused. I use a hard hold flax seed gel for my styling product these days.
    Wow! Such beautiful curls! Im so jealous! I can see the progression from beginning to now. I would love to see my hair do the same thing. I hope it has the potential to turn into lovely consistent waves. It is just so dang inconsistent.

    One thing I have been thinking about this week is whether or not I should try to get it to clump anymore. As much as I would love for it to be nice even clumps, I think I have way too low density, and even normal-sized-for-other-people clumps may draw hairs away from other places, giving it that terrible look, does that make sense? Which is why I think it looked OK in the straight short bob style, because it wasn't so obvious that the hairs were pulling double duty taking up space depending on which way I swung my head.
    Currently, I am thinking one huge factor is going to be length, if I can just get it to stop falling out and maybe grow some length (here's me wishing upon a star again like I did when I was twelve), the low density would be harder to see because..i dunno just maybe it would be less obvious. And the thin, stringy ends would at least not be beside my face where everyone looks. I dunno, we shall see.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    kathymack wrote: »
    I, too, would suggest a good cut to shape your hair and get rid of the tips. A good cut is the foundation for everything else. When one has low density hair, longer just makes it look stringier. Once it's shaped, with appropriate layers, you can start working on ingredients/products and learning techniques that your hair likes.
    I do need a cut, that's for sure. I keep telling my stylist to cut it in such a way that wearing natural curls will look good, and she keeps layering the back and wedging it to the front. Which was my straight cut for the last 5 years. Im scared to lose any length, tho, I will freely admit that.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ttoosday wrote: »

    Currently, I am thinking one huge factor is going to be length, if I can just get it to stop falling out and maybe grow some length (here's me wishing upon a star again like I did when I was twelve), the low density would be harder to see because..i dunno just maybe it would be less obvious. And the thin, stringy ends would at least not be beside my face where everyone looks. I dunno, we shall see.

    Actually, low density hair is more apparent with length. IMHO, the stringy ends just look worse and stringier, if that's a word.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I'd say that's a word, for sure! I can see what you mean :)
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Doing my *first* ever coconut oil treatment. I planned to leave it in overnight. Quick question, I read that a person literally cannot overdo it with coconut oil. Is that true? If my hair dries a little right after application, should I keep applying it until bedtime? It seems to be sucking this oil right up. Is that what is supposed to happen?
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Hm, not sure about whether to keep applying it or not. My hair maxes out after just a few drops and it won't wash out. Some people definitely can overdo it. But it's good that your hair is absorbing it. You're probably not one of the people who will have problems washing it out. And also, that's a sign your hair will be better moisturized than before. Good luck with the treatment!

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • eveumeveum Posts: 744Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    If coconut oil doesn't work try Olive oil!

    Low Shampoo: Aveda Be Curly Shampoo
    Conditioner: Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture/ Perfectly Undone
    Treatments: SM Black Castor Oil Masque/ Packet Gelatine
    Leave in: Redken Diamond Oil Conditioner
    Styling: AG Recoil Curl Activator/V05 Mega Hold/Cornstarch
    Refresh: Redken Fresh Curls Curl Boost


    Between Waist and Hip Length (stretched), 2C with 2B roots
  • KaZenner1990KaZenner1990 Posts: 859Registered Users
    For me I don't apply more unless I will leave it even longer. For overnight I use 2 tbsp for my density and length but lately my healthier hair does get weighted down lately with coconut oil. Like eveum said I had substituted it for olive oil but not left more than 2 hours.

    [Properties for mobile users]
    Boticelli 2c/3A,M+C/ii, high porosity, medium elasticity, growing out color and heat damage. APL wet.
    2C/3A Botticelli/Corkicelli.Growing out color/heat damage
    M/C, Low/Medium/High Por, Normal Elast. Medium Density
    LP: INSIGHT DAMAGED HAIR Restructurizing Shampoo
    CO: Generic protein conditioner, Hair Academy Deep Cleansing CO
    DET/RO/LI: GNC Avocado And Shea Butter Conditioner +/mask,
    Styler: Schwarzkopf Taft Fixing GelWellaflex Instant Volume Boost Mousse
    DT: EVOO, C.O
    HG
    Goal: WL when curly
    CG since Feb 2014
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Hmm I think I used alot more than 2 tbsps!
    Today I think maybe it feels a little softer but not by much. I also decided to skip a defining product to see if that would produce a better look closer to what I'd like to have every day. Big fat pppphthththth on that. It looks terrible with or without.
    I think I'm going to have to add some curl to the front sides with an iron still, just quickly and maybe not on as high a heat as I've used before. I still have to work Mon-Fri and I have to be presentable. Another short puff low ponytail today.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • frcklsfrckls Posts: 528Registered Users
    Many can't use coconut oil alone, claiming that it makes their hair stiff and feels brittle. Try blending it with other penetrating oils like olive and sunflower is a good idea. Science-y Hair Blog has an amazing oil blend recipe that I used to use. I switched to adding coconut oil to Holland & Barret Wonder Oil just because I don't need to buy the all the oils separately and jojoba oil can get pretty pricey in here. H&B WO, I believe, also has a smaller portion of olive oil which means I don't need separate oil for my face, too. :)
    2B/C canopy & 2A/B underlayer
    coarse | low-normal porosity | normal elasticity | low-med density
    (by GoosefootPrints)

    Clarify: Suave Daily Clarifying Shampoo, Citric acid rinse
    RO/LI: Jason Moisturizing 84% Aloe Vera / Paul Mitchell The Conditioner
    Styler: DIY Okra Jelly / Paul Mitchell Thicken Up / Shu Uemura Cotton Uzu Flexible Defining Cream
    Treatment: H&B Wonder Oil + VCO, Honey-Cardamom-EVOO-Chamomile
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Soooo, I think I don't like the Shea moisture restorative conditioner as a cowash or as a conditionr. I read low star reviews on curlmart about it leaving hair feeling dry and tangly, and that is exactly what my experience was today. I don't know if it is partially that the last of the coconut oil treatment was rinsed away or if this product is just not good. But I guess I'll be trying to find something new this weekend.

    Does the fact that it is no-protein mean anything? Is that a reaction to no-protein?
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Have you tried products with protein in them or just a plain protein treatment? That's really one of the only ways to tell whether your hair needs protein. I notice you're medium hair width. That type of hair tends to need protein sometimes but can overload on protein as well. Fine hair tends to crave it and coarse hair tends not to like it (but there are exceptions). Trial and error is the only way to know. Your hair having a bad reaction to a product has to do with what's in it, not so much what's not in it. I notice it has emulsifying wax in it; perhaps it was that. Or coconut oil not being washed away before.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I haven't done a protein treatment yet, but I bought ion repair in a pouch to try out, will likely do that this weekend. Can I do coconut and protein treatments close together, like in the same weekend? I also am getting obviously gray so I neeed to do a dye this weekend too. The only products I've used so far are devacurl which didn't perform miracles, but also didn't seem to be hurting either.

    I think you're right, I need to experiment with protein and see what happens.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    If a protein treatment intimidates you you can also try products with protein in them first (like a conditioner, etc). Yup, you can do oil and protein in the same weekend. Some say applying oil at the same time as something else inhibits hairs' ability to absorb the other things but I've had no problems putting some coconut oil in my PTs or henna mixes. Also, with protein make sure you follow up with or include moisture. From what I remember your hair needs more moisture and protein can leave it feeling dry (for some people, for me it was the opposite). If hair is rough and brittle afterward a PT then your hair is over proteined and needs more moisture. If your hair is soft afterwards it means you needed to protein (and also if you notice your hair curling more afterwards, then you also needed the protein). For me, my hair needed both after heat damage.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Oh man. Ya it's a little intimidating. If I end up over proteining, what's a good deep moisturizing product? I mean, every single product description claims to restore and retain moisture.
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    I think a good bet would be to pick up a bottle of GVP Conditioning Balm from Sally Beauty if you've got one nearby. It's very rich compared to the average drugstore conditioner, protein-free (so it can be added to protein routines OR still works if you find you need to avoid protein) and isn't mega-pricey (about $6 a bottle).

    I use it as one of my rotating rinse outs when I cowash, and as a moisture bump in case of feeling over-proteined after a treatment.

    edit: fwiw, my hair hated/stringified under the shea moisture restorative conditioner, too!
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel
  • ttoosdayttoosday Posts: 485Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Excellent. I do have a sallys so I'll swing by there
    CG since 11/2014
    Mostly 2B, but ranges A-C front to back and root to tip
    Low density, very coarse, high porosity
    Armpit length, gray dyed brown, dry and rough
    Lo poo: Ion Hard Water Shampoo
    Cowash: As I Am Coc Cowash
    RO: GVP CB
    Leave In: As I Am LI or Not Your Mothers Gardenia
    Deep condition: SM Deep Treat Mask
    Protein: Hask Keratin
    Styler: Curl Keeper Original, LA Looks gel
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Posts: 477Registered Users
    Here's my $0.02, take it for what it's worth... I think you need to slow down a little and approach this scientifically.

    Here's what I mean: if you want to really know how your hair reacts to protein, or oils, or whatever, you first need a baseline (how your hair feels, on a consistent basis, without any protein, or anything else for that matter, in your routine).

    Here's what I'd do if I were in your shoes:

    1. Get a good conditioner without protein. The GVP Conditioning Balm from Sally's metioned by geekrockgirl is a solid choice.

    2. Use this as a pre-poo for your hair, or just use it.

    3. If you're using a lo-poo, try to find one without protein or heavy oils in it. I'd actually stay away from oils too at this stage, just to get a baseline for your hair.

    4. If you're going to use a gel or mousse, make it a really basic one, go easy on the humectants if you live in a low dewpoint climate.

    5. Do this for at least 2-3 weeks to give your hair time to get used to what you're doing.

    After this, then start adding in other ingredients to your routine - one by one. It will help you identify what your hair likes or doesn't like.

    Good luck. It takes patience. :blah5:
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
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