Woman Harrassed on Street w/ Hidden Camera

koolkurlkoolkurl Posts: 252Registered Users Curl Neophyte
Hidden camera captures catcalls women face on New York City streets - CBS News

What do you all think of this story? I saw on some sites men becoming defensive in their comments and actually curl bashing the woman! (I like her curls btw)

Some men defended the woman and shamed the men for their behavior.

There were women criticizing the woman.

I think harassing women on the street is a form of sexism that some women still must endure. Perhaps some do like the attention unless it is threatening. I personally don't get attention by men anymore and find it a relief but in some ways also oddly a judgement as now that I am over 50 I am often treated like I am invisible. It ain't easy being a woman!
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Comments

  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,849Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    koolkurl wrote: »
    Hidden camera captures catcalls women face on New York City streets - CBS News

    What do you all think of this story? I saw on some sites men becoming defensive in their comments and actually curl bashing the woman! (I like her curls btw)

    Some men defended the woman and shamed the men for their behavior.

    There were women criticizing the woman.

    I think harassing women on the street is a form of sexism that some women still must endure. Perhaps some do like the attention unless it is threatening. I personally don't get attention by men anymore and find it a relief but in some ways also oddly a judgement as now that I am over 50 I am often treated like I am invisible. It ain't easy being a woman!

    Yeah, I saw this the other day and it pissed me off. I can relate. But it feels even worse when I see it happening to someone else actually. It's nauseating. I hate when men do this. And I cannot understand when (a handful of) women say they enjoy it. :thumbdown:

  • mustangbunnymustangbunny Posts: 1,033Registered Users
    I heard about this, and I heard as a result she was getting death threats.

    I go to great lengths to avoid walking on streets alone. I feel like it's affected my daily life, I've become self conscious just walking down the street. I avoid eye contact with strange men and never smile at any men, not even to be polite. Catcalling/harassing is never ever enjoyable for me, it makes me feel cheap and dirty. I could never live in a big city. 😞


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  • Jorjor23Jorjor23 Posts: 4Registered Users
    And that guy who walked next to her for five minutes, yikes! I'd be beyond creeped out.
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I have even heard women defending the men. Gayle King seemed incensed and that you just should say hi back and take the compliments. What people don't seem to get is that, yeah, maybe just MAYBE some are just pleasantries, but it's really hard to distinguish and if you respond *in anyway* to some of these guys, it is taken as consent and often escalates quickly to Not a Good Thing and who is the bad guy then? The woman. Because you said hi back or thank you or whatever. So the safest thing to do is never make eye contact or vocal contact. Yeah, it looks all innocent on the top (and maybe it is, but most often it is not) but whoa be the woman who responds. Which makes you the bad guy responding or not responding. I couldn't believe it when I heard the censure in her voice.
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  • DedachanDedachan Posts: 1,644Registered Users
    Two of my male friends insist the men are just being polite. That really angers me. I get greeted by people on the street who are just being polite and that's very different from being greeted by someone who is staring me up and down like I'm a piece of meat, and the tone in their voice... it's completely disrespectful. To me that is the opposite of having good manners.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    This is what I like about my small town. Someone would knock the hell out of you for doing that, especially when I was younger. *Normally Grandma with her purse* You might have someone wolf whistle occasionally and chances are when someone yells something, you know them well, and they are just playing. You are more likely to run into people nodding and saying hello or how are you doing? *Actually asking in passing and no more.

    We cruised town (ours or another) because there was nothing else to do and you had more chit chat with guys passing by you in the car but that was the whole point. You generally pulled over and had normal conversations with people.

    ETA: It was a shock for me when I went to NY. Every block was something different. I was more offended by the guys yelling "Lets kill the b*tches" than say... the 80 year old men telling us we looked like beauty pageant contestants, in our sunday best, after we left a church service (we were there to sing at St Patricks). But there was a lot of yelling in general.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 175Registered Users
    It's so sickening. I live in New York and men definitely make comments like that. I can't tell you how many times I've had people tell me to smile or look me up and down. Excuse me, it's my face and if I don't want to smile at you then I'm not going to. I also have RBF(resting b-word face) and I often look angry when I'm not, so I feel like that increases the volume of comments I get about smiling.
    Men don't understand that whether their intentions were sexual or just being polite, most women don't want them. Especially when we're just out running errands. It's extremely difficult to tell who is dangerous and who isn't. The threat of violence and sexual assault against women is disgustingly high. God forbid I walk to the drugstore and give the wrong person a smile.

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I watched this video on my tv and watched a few more related ones by NYU students. This guy was following the girl around, talking to her, and telling her it was her fault. That's why he was doing it. Everything is her fault, but it's okay because he feels charitable and will forgive her.

    Makes you want to throw an apple at someones head. Who is being clever now?
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I would like to see more data on a stat quoted in one video I watched. It said 99% of women have been harassed on the street. I don't exactly think that is accurate. Perhaps 99% of women in particular areas. That I can see!

    So, I looked it up :) Out of the 811 women who participated, 99% experienced "non contact harassment" at some public place, at a point in their life. The majority were in college and from cities but they also talked to women in Istanbul, Poland, and Croatia. That I can see. The University videos I watched kept addressing street harassment itself as a huge societal problem. It is with out a doubt a problem, but not every street is the same.

    This is why I no longer get mad at men who open doors or assume they are treating me like I am helpless. I had a brief moment of frustration in high school and got over it. It's much better than the harassment alternative that can, in some cases, honestly does leave a person feeling that way.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • juanabjuanab Posts: 4,037Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Woman is killed after refusing to give her phone number to her harrasser

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    juanab wrote: »
    Woman is killed after refusing to give her phone number to her harrasser

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using CurlTalk App

    That is horrible, and insane. I hate her family had to witness it, too.


    You never know. I have mentioned the man who pulled a gun on me at a party. He was in his 50's, fondling a married a married woman I know (also in her 50's at that time), who was passed out on our friends couch. I told him to stop, he went outside, came back in and pointed a 38 Special at my head. He also took his teeth out, which were all apparently fake top to bottom, showed me his horribly scared gums and told me I knew nothing about pain. Luckily one of my other friends (the home owner) stepped in between us and talked him down. Then the woman I was trying to defend left with him. Wth? He was from Detroit, too.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    That is also why it is important to watch who you invite places. I have met several guys at gatherings/bars, hung out with them and had no problems. It's not everyone, but this guy was a total nut. My friend, the one who saved my butt that night, is from Flint and struck up a conversation with this guy. It all went down hill from there. He ended up going behind bars too. We called our bar tender friend who was close to becoming a US Marshal. He had friends run his name and this guy had a ton of outstanding warrants. He was a member of a rather racist militia in another county. Really messed up. He ended up getting his door kicked in. Surprise!
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    This is why I no longer get mad at men who open doors or assume they are treating me like I am helpless.
    What sucks is when the guy holding the door open clearly thinks you're gonna drop to your knees and blow him in gratitude.

    e: Sounds like a made-up scenario, but I lived in a building with a lot of desperate manchildren.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    This is why I no longer get mad at men who open doors or assume they are treating me like I am helpless.
    What sucks is when the guy holding the door open clearly thinks you're gonna drop to your knees and blow him in gratitude.

    e: Sounds like a made-up scenario, but I lived in a building with a lot of desperate manchildren.

    Haha. You must! It's always a quick nod and brief "thank you" here.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    Haha. You must! It's always a quick nod and brief "thank you" here.
    I'm happy to say it's been years since I lived there. But yeah, it had a huge number of those guys who get angry about not getting laid, but it never occurs to them to have conversations with women instead of mindlessly reciting PUA routines. Some of them were really good looking and could have easily picked up women by acting like normal people.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    Haha. You must! It's always a quick nod and brief "thank you" here.
    I'm happy to say it's been years since I lived there. But yeah, it had a huge number of those guys who get angry about not getting laid, but it never occurs to them to have conversations with women instead of mindlessly reciting PUA routines. Some of them were really good looking and could have easily picked up women by acting like normal people.

    That is a little much. Hello, it's not like you bought her a drink or anything. Ppppffffftttt!! Crazy expectations.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • eveumeveum Posts: 744Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Ughhhh guys like this.....Who feel like they are entitled to women just by existing. Who white knight girls in the hope that they get laid in return. Who never have the courage to have a conversation with a woman and then blame women for never "giving them a chance". Who talk about being "friend zoned" by females and their female friends, as it's a woman's fault if she doesn't return his romantic feelings.

    Make no mistake, this type of thinking and behaviour often turns into misogyny. I would not engage in conversation with anyone like this, no matter how nice they may seem at first.

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  • CatitudeBooCatitudeBoo Posts: 578Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Ugh, that video was super annoying. They should have shown her walking around on Wall St. or Park Ave in the middle of the day and see the response. I'd be curious to see that. A vast majority of those men are of a higher socioeconomic class & are WORKING during mid-day, not just standing around on street corners with nothing to do. Cat-calling seems to be more apparent in lower-income areas.

    EDIT: That used to happen to me when I didn't have a car and had to take public transit. Now I drive everywhere and people can't harass me on the street. In higher-income situations, I think the harassment has the potential to be more insidious - like harassment in the workplace where your supervisor is making sexual advances towards you & thus, putting your job in jeopardy. Unlike some unemployed, drunk-at-11am idiot on the street yelling, "Aye mami!" You're most likely never going to see that person again.
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  • BotticelliBritBotticelliBrit Posts: 2,075Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    @CatitudeBoo I kind of agree and disagree. I get some form of that behaviour wherever I go, no matter whether it's somewhere more 'working class' or somewhere more 'upperclass'.

    The type of street harassment I experience is a little different, like in lower-income neighbourhoods it's more 'hey baby, you so sexy' or whatever. More verbal I suppose and, in a way, more physical. Guys in vans will yell stuff out, slow down, or often times stop all together to say something. F*cking creepers.

    In higher-income it's more whistling, winking or really awful oggling. Like, insanely creepy oggling, and continued staring, which makes me just as uncomfortable as the more verbal advances.

    Anyway, on the video itself: a woman should be able to walk down any street in any neighbourhood without self-entitled little pr*cks thinking it's complimentary to yell sh*t out to them.

    It's not a compliment. It's not something we should be thankful for. It's often quite intimating and it's just not necessary.

    I don't know why they think a woman is going to turn around and be like 'oh, why thank you. Let's go out, here's my number' because they're not.

    It makes me hate walking down the street by myself, because I know no matter WHAT I'm wearing or how I look, some arseh*le will be sexually aggressive toward me.

    The whole thing just pisses me off. Like that woman said; how would those guys like it if someone did that to their daughter / little sister / mother? I bet they wouldn't be impressed. It's disrepectful.
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  • multicultcurlymulticultcurly Posts: 5,136Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I haven't read all of the comments but I did see the video. I agree with Gayle. Someone saying "hi Beautiful" is a compliment, even if not asked for. Yes it can be annoying the fifth time you hear it or "smile". The problem and scariness comes from the aggressive guys who follow you, get mad because you don't acknowledge them, think you owe them something or those that call you curse words because they are angry at the world and want to take it out on you.

    That aggressive behavior needs to be addressed. Women don't owe men anything and a man who demands a woman to pay attention to him has issues and is dangerous. Women should feel safe enough to walk home alone or in certain neighborhoods alone.

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  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I haven't read all of the comments but I did see the video. I agree with Gayle. Someone saying "hi Beautiful" is a compliment, even if not asked for. Yes it can be annoying the fifth time you hear it or "smile". The problem and scariness comes from the aggressive guys who follow you, get mad because you don't acknowledge them, think you owe them something or those that call you curse words because they are angry at the world and want to take it out on you.
    Since it's impossible to work out who will turn into an aggressive creep any compliments are out of order.

    Workmen in England working on building sites were made to stop catcalling and shouting out to women a few years ago because of this. Now the only time they will do it is if is they are in anonymous vehicles.

    Oh and I use to run on the street in daytime and the sh*t I got from some men was sometimes frightening. Some would say something out of a car which could be taken as a compliment then I would find them slowing down to follow me. Luckily some of the roads had traffic signals, dead ends or traffic jams.

    I now live in a different area and have changed my running times to avoid getting hassle. Though this doesn't work if I'm cycling.....
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 175Registered Users
    Blueblood wrote: »
    I haven't read all of the comments but I did see the video. I agree with Gayle. Someone saying "hi Beautiful" is a compliment, even if not asked for. Yes it can be annoying the fifth time you hear it or "smile". The problem and scariness comes from the aggressive guys who follow you, get mad because you don't acknowledge them, think you owe them something or those that call you curse words because they are angry at the world and want to take it out on you.
    Since it's impossible to work out who will turn into an aggressive creep any compliments are out of order.

    Workmen in England working on building sites were made to stop catcalling and shouting out to women a few years ago because of this. Now the only time they will do it is if is they are in anonymous vehicles.

    Oh and I use to run on the street in daytime and the sh*t I got from some men was sometimes frightening. Some would say something out of a car which could be taken as a compliment then I would find them slowing down to follow me. Luckily some of the roads had traffic signals, dead ends or traffic jams.

    I now live in a different area and have changed my running times to avoid getting hassle. Though this doesn't work if I'm cycling.....

    I also hear things from men when I go for a run. I haven't changed my route because the one I take now is just the most convenient for me. Now I put my music up a little louder so I don't hear their stupid comments.

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  • CatitudeBooCatitudeBoo Posts: 578Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    "any compliments are out of order"?

    who gets to dictate which compliments are OK and which ones are not? "Hi beautiful" may be considered harassment to one woman but simple flattery to another. And good luck trying to bar men from saying any compliment whatsoever to women for fear he may be labeled a sexual harasser. Implementing extremes rarely works.
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  • multicultcurlymulticultcurly Posts: 5,136Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    "any compliments are out of order"?

    who gets to dictate which compliments are OK and which ones are not? "Hi beautiful" may be considered harassment to one woman but simple flattery to another. And good luck trying to bar men from saying any compliment whatsoever to women for fear he may be labeled a sexual harasser. Implementing extremes rarely works.

    I completely agree.

    @Blueblood I guess we'll agree to disagree


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  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,340Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I generally avoid eye contact with people and ignore them. I'm not surprised at all. To me it's just **** you gotta deal with being a woman. Some places are worse than others obviously.
  • TrickTrick Posts: 140Registered Users
    Apparently I'm in the 1%. I've never had anything like this happen to me. I work in Chicago and walk 8 blocks to my office, so it's not like I live in the middle of nowhere.

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I don't think high or low income really matters. It's simply teaching someone to be respectful. Most the locals in my town are on the lower/middle (is there a middle anymore) side. There are a few wealthy but people are still very polite on the street.


    That doesn't mean all were well behaved in other places. They were simply taught not to do it.


    I agree with MCC about the compliments. I think several women might get lost there. Yes, it gets incredibly annoying to hear the same thing over and over. I hear "Hey Sweetie!" "Hey honey!" You have a good day sweetheart".... But it's mainly from women/waitresses. Annoying, but not an insult.

    You doin okay, hun? (25 times in a hour. Get those tips!)
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I don't know exactly what is expected from some when it comes to street harassment. That is where you are going to run into problems. If you call the police and say, "someone just said, 'how are you?'", you are not going to get very far. Same with smile, hello, or anything else of a non threatening nature.

    From the Hollaback site

    "According to the CDC “non-contact unwanted sexual experiences,” including street harassment, are the most prevalent form of sexual violence for both men and women in the United States. Internationally, studies show that between 70-99% of women experience street harassment at some point during their lives."

    The CDC *study* had this more specific definition of non contact sexual violence, which several other sites do not include...

    Non-contact unwanted sexual experiences are those unwanted experiences that do not involve any touching or penetration, including someone exposing their sexual body parts, flashing, or masturbating in front of the victim, someone making a victim show his or her body parts, someone making a victim look at or participate in sexual photos or movies, or someone harassing the victim in a public place in a way that made the victim feel unsafe.

    Hollaback then has things like someone looking at you or ... all listed in front of instances where someone exposed themselves. It will be be long lists of leering, this, that (oh and wanking off in front of you.)

    You have to go by legal definitions like

    Verbal abuse is the use of words to cause harm to the person being spoken to. It is difficult to define and may take many forms. Similarly, the harm caused is often difficult to measure. The most commonly understood form is name-calling. Verbal abuse may consist of shouting, insulting, intimidating, threatening, shaming, demeaning, or derogatory language, among other forms of communication.

    Which you might find differs from Wikipedia:

    Verbal abuse (also known as reviling) is described as a negative defining statement told to the victim or about the victim, or by withholding any response, thereby defining the target as non-existent. If the abuser does not immediately apologize and retract the defining statement, the relationship may be a verbally abusive one.

    ^ Very different! Many definitions are after the feminist storming. I hate to sound stereotypical but they may as well have put- Added by Bitter. Ignoring me when I ask you a question is verbal abuse!

    ETA: You also have problems with it being hear say, unless there are witnesses or you have it on tape. On that topic, i came across a news article from another country that had horribly strict public harassment laws that people often abused and just required a witness. A woman was tailgated, forced to pull over, the man then rushed past her in his car, called the police, told them she flipped him off, he had a witness, and she spent 6 months in jail. The witness was never interviewed. They made assumptions about her knowing he was an officer in the military (somehow, from her car), and all kinds of crazy.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CatitudeBooCatitudeBoo Posts: 578Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Well we can agree to disagree. Men who are of a higher socioeconomic class often have different tactics when it comes to harassment or oppression of women. I'm not referring to the "Hi beautiful" or "good morning" blurbs either. I'm referring to crude, disrespectful remarks. Oftentimes, people who reside in or spend a lot of time in richer neighborhoods, even the skeeviest of people, know how to "keep up appearances" and are not going to openly harass women in public. Acting that way in public would reflect poorly on their status.
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  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    When was in my 20s the worst offenders were white Middle Aged and older business men who came in to the restaurant where I worked. Well off to rich men who owned local businesses.
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