CurlTalk

Over-Conditioned Hair

I recently over-condtioned my hair and I was wondering how long does it usually take to recover from it? I did two gelatin protein treatment, but if I use any conditioner, my hair becomes over-condtioned. I have a lot of conditioner which I would like to be able to use, but is it possible to end up being able to use conditioner again, just as before?

Current Products:

  • Pacifica Island Vanilla Body Wash (as shampoo)
  • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
  • AG Recoil Curl Activator
  • AG Plastique or Flaxseed & Gelatin hair gel
  • Gelatin as protein treatment

Techniques: Super Soaker + Plopping Overnight


Comments

  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users
    I recently over-condtioned my hair and I was wondering how long does it usually take to recover from it? I did two gelatin protein treatment, but if I use any conditioner, my hair becomes over-condtioned. I have a lot of conditioner which I would like to be able to use, but is it possible to end up being able to use conditioner again, just as before?

    Boy is this topic near to my heart. It took me a bunch of protein treatments, but after a few I usually recover. And I can use conditioner. Just not too much! I think for now you may have to treat your hair like you just did a deep treatment, so right now it's probably conditioned enough not to need more conditioner.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • EverydayCurlsEverydayCurls Posts: 292Registered Users
    naturecat wrote: »
    Boy is this topic near to my heart. It took me a bunch of protein treatments, but after a few I usually recover. And I can use conditioner. Just not too much! I think for now you may have to treat your hair like you just did a deep treatment, so right now it's probably conditioned enough not to need more conditioner.

    I will do another protein treatment either today or next week, so hopefully my hair will be ok after that. If I let my hair dry without any gelatin gel, it feels too soft and won't clump well. About a week ago, since I had a bit of frizz, I decided to use some leave-in conditioner, and my hair ended up looking more like 3a with 2c instead of mostly 3b.

    Current Products:

    • Pacifica Island Vanilla Body Wash (as shampoo)
    • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
    • AG Recoil Curl Activator
    • AG Plastique or Flaxseed & Gelatin hair gel
    • Gelatin as protein treatment

    Techniques: Super Soaker + Plopping Overnight


  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,156Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Are you sure you aren't getting buildup and mistaking it for being over-conditioned? What does your hair feel like? If using lots of protein, this can cause buildup in itself. Usually if I get over-conditioned, it's fixed with another shampoo and different conditioner in the same day. Hair gets very mushy when wet if over-conditioned. It's easy to mistake the two.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • EverydayCurlsEverydayCurls Posts: 292Registered Users
    sixelamy wrote: »
    Are you sure you aren't getting buildup and mistaking it for being over-conditioned? What does your hair feel like? If using lots of protein, this can cause buildup in itself. Usually if I get over-conditioned, it's fixed with another shampoo and different conditioner in the same day. Hair gets very mushy when wet if over-conditioned. It's easy to mistake the two.

    I doubt it's build up because I even washed my hair with sulfate shampoo in order to really clean. I only did a protein treatment twice, after which my hair looked better, so I also think that it's probably not too much protein. When I rinse out the protein, my hair feels normal (not stiff like most people say). When I use the gelatin gel, my hair seems normal, but if I let it dry without any products in my hair, it feels too soft and light, and won't clump. My hair normally still curls fine without products, but used to be very frizzy. When wet, my hair isn't mushy (not sure what mushy hair feels like though), but it still feels a bit softer than normal.

    Current Products:

    • Pacifica Island Vanilla Body Wash (as shampoo)
    • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
    • AG Recoil Curl Activator
    • AG Plastique or Flaxseed & Gelatin hair gel
    • Gelatin as protein treatment

    Techniques: Super Soaker + Plopping Overnight


  • KatekKatek Posts: 13Registered Users
    Excuse the ignorance (pretty new here!) but what are the 'signs' of overconditioning?
  • KaZenner1990KaZenner1990 Posts: 859Registered Users
    Katek wrote: »
    Excuse the ignorance (pretty new here!) but what are the 'signs' of overconditioning?

    Do not worry. Learning is good. Over-conditioned hair is a lot of things.
    From mussy feeling hair when wet, something like spaghetti like, to overly soft and frizzy when dry. Greasy looking, limp curls, loss.of definition. Or cotton candy when dry. I have that problem. I am sure I used way too much yesterday when I dyed my hair but I think it needs protein to come back to its shape.

    [Properties for mobile users]
    M+C/ii, high porosity, medium elasticity, growing color and heat damage.
    2C/3A Botticelli/Corkicelli.Growing out color/heat damage
    M/C, Low/Medium/High Por, Normal Elast. Medium Density
    LP: INSIGHT DAMAGED HAIR Restructurizing Shampoo
    CO: Generic protein conditioner, Hair Academy Deep Cleansing CO
    DET/RO/LI: GNC Avocado And Shea Butter Conditioner +/mask,
    Styler: Schwarzkopf Taft Fixing GelWellaflex Instant Volume Boost Mousse
    DT: EVOO, C.O
    HG
    Goal: WL when curly
    CG since Feb 2014
  • KaZenner1990KaZenner1990 Posts: 859Registered Users
    @Everyday Curls

    If your hair doesn't feel rough or stiff after protein treatments I wouldn't use a conditioner.
    I would stay away from it. Lately I stopped pre-poo because my hair wasn't needing it but after my dye I have a feeling that my hair needs some protein.

    [Properties for mobile users]
    M+C/ii, high porosity, medium elasticity, growing color and heat damage.
    2C/3A Botticelli/Corkicelli.Growing out color/heat damage
    M/C, Low/Medium/High Por, Normal Elast. Medium Density
    LP: INSIGHT DAMAGED HAIR Restructurizing Shampoo
    CO: Generic protein conditioner, Hair Academy Deep Cleansing CO
    DET/RO/LI: GNC Avocado And Shea Butter Conditioner +/mask,
    Styler: Schwarzkopf Taft Fixing GelWellaflex Instant Volume Boost Mousse
    DT: EVOO, C.O
    HG
    Goal: WL when curly
    CG since Feb 2014
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,156Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Think of it like squishing seawood through your fingers.. that's kinda like what over-conditioned hair feels like when it's wet.

    EverydayCurls - what conditioner are you using to leave in? Or are you using different ones?
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • EverydayCurlsEverydayCurls Posts: 292Registered Users
    sixelamy wrote: »
    Think of it like squishing seawood through your fingers.. that's kinda like what over-conditioned hair feels like when it's wet.

    EverydayCurls - what conditioner are you using to leave in? Or are you using different ones?

    My hair is soft when wet, but I don't think it's like seaweed. As a leave-in conditioner, I used to use Mercola Conditioner mixed with water, but last time I tried a tiny bit of my friend's Gud (burts bees) conditioner as leave-in. It loosened my curls once dry and made it poofier. I also recently bought the Nature Gate pomegranate sunflower conditioner, which has some protein, and tried it as a RO, but my hair still felt overconditoned.
    @Everyday Curls

    If your hair doesn't feel rough or stiff after protein treatments I wouldn't use a conditioner.
    I would stay away from it. Lately I stopped pre-poo because my hair wasn't needing it but after my dye I have a feeling that my hair needs some protein.

    [Properties for mobile users]
    M+C/ii, high porosity, medium elasticity, growing color and heat damage.

    That's what I've been trying for now. I'll probably try another PT in a bit. I just wanted to know if it's possible to go back to 'before' when I used conditioner.

    Current Products:

    • Pacifica Island Vanilla Body Wash (as shampoo)
    • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
    • AG Recoil Curl Activator
    • AG Plastique or Flaxseed & Gelatin hair gel
    • Gelatin as protein treatment

    Techniques: Super Soaker + Plopping Overnight


  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users
    That's what I've been trying for now. I'll probably try another PT in a bit. I just wanted to know if it's possible to go back to 'before' when I used conditioner.

    Definitely. My whole first year of being CG (in that I used BS/ACV to wash) I had straight-ish hair, with an elongated wave pattern or waves only at the bottom. My hair was always greasy and over conditioned. After a whole year of that, I did my first PT, tried some gel and was like, what, I still have curl in my hair?! In fact after my first time of trying that, I posted the pic that is now my avatar pic. Clearly not straight hair. :) I've OC'd several times since then, including yesterday. The curl is just waiting to spring back. Within a week I'd say. Also, perhaps it's possible that your hair, being in better condition, needs less conditioner overall… that's one thing I've found on my CG journey…. less is more. I use water to distribute conditioner in my hair rather than trying to put some everywhere.

    Edited to add: I notice you're using shampoo bars. I find those helpful in getting out any "excess" conditioner in my hair, or at least the clarifying ones (with soap nuts). So I think just keep doing what you're doing!

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • KaZenner1990KaZenner1990 Posts: 859Registered Users
    naturecat wrote: »
    That's what I've been trying for now. I'll probably try another PT in a bit. I just wanted to know if it's possible to go back to 'before' when I used conditioner.

    Definitely. My whole first year of being CG (in that I used BS/ACV to wash) I had straight-ish hair, with an elongated wave pattern or waves only at the bottom. My hair was always greasy and over conditioned. After a whole year of that, I did my first PT, tried some gel and was like, what, I still have curl in my hair?! In fact after my first time of trying that, I posted the pic that is now my avatar pic. Clearly not straight hair. :) I've OC'd several times since then, including yesterday. The curl is just waiting to spring back. Within a week I'd say. Also, perhaps it's possible that your hair, being in better condition, needs less conditioner overall… that's one thing I've found on my CG journey…. less is more. I use water to distribute conditioner in my hair rather than trying to put some everywhere.

    Edited to add: I notice you're using shampoo bars. I find those helpful in getting out any "excess" conditioner in my hair, or at least the clarifying ones (with soap nuts). So I think just keep doing what you're doing!

    Oh I was thinking of you and wanted to suggest her gelatin gel as styler!!!

    I find that my hair after dying needs protein boost. I will wait the 48 hours to pass and do a DC with protein.
    2C/3A Botticelli/Corkicelli.Growing out color/heat damage
    M/C, Low/Medium/High Por, Normal Elast. Medium Density
    LP: INSIGHT DAMAGED HAIR Restructurizing Shampoo
    CO: Generic protein conditioner, Hair Academy Deep Cleansing CO
    DET/RO/LI: GNC Avocado And Shea Butter Conditioner +/mask,
    Styler: Schwarzkopf Taft Fixing GelWellaflex Instant Volume Boost Mousse
    DT: EVOO, C.O
    HG
    Goal: WL when curly
    CG since Feb 2014
  • EverydayCurlsEverydayCurls Posts: 292Registered Users
    naturecat wrote: »
    Definitely. My whole first year of being CG (in that I used BS/ACV to wash) I had straight-ish hair, with an elongated wave pattern or waves only at the bottom. My hair was always greasy and over conditioned. After a whole year of that, I did my first PT, tried some gel and was like, what, I still have curl in my hair?! In fact after my first time of trying that, I posted the pic that is now my avatar pic. Clearly not straight hair. :) I've OC'd several times since then, including yesterday. The curl is just waiting to spring back. Within a week I'd say. Also, perhaps it's possible that your hair, being in better condition, needs less conditioner overall… that's one thing I've found on my CG journey…. less is more. I use water to distribute conditioner in my hair rather than trying to put some everywhere.

    Edited to add: I notice you're using shampoo bars. I find those helpful in getting out any "excess" conditioner in my hair, or at least the clarifying ones (with soap nuts). So I think just keep doing what you're doing!

    After using a lot of gelatin gel(I had to apply more after my hair dried), my hair looks mostly normal, except that since I stopped using conditioner, the top half of my hair has a bit of frizz. I find the shampoo bars slightly moisturizing and I can detangle with them, so maybe I just don't need that much conditioner. I used to only use shampoo + gel, although I had a layer of frizz covering curls.
    Oh I was thinking of you and wanted to suggest her gelatin gel as styler!!!

    I find that my hair after dying needs protein boost. I will wait the 48 hours to pass and do a DC with protein.

    I've dyed my hair 4 or 5 times in my life (the last time being about 5 or 6 months ago), and only straightened my hair 3 times in my life, and also never blow dry, so my hair isn't really damaged. I probably will just have to find a balance of how much protein/moisture my hair needs.

    Current Products:

    • Pacifica Island Vanilla Body Wash (as shampoo)
    • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
    • AG Recoil Curl Activator
    • AG Plastique or Flaxseed & Gelatin hair gel
    • Gelatin as protein treatment

    Techniques: Super Soaker + Plopping Overnight


  • EverydayCurlsEverydayCurls Posts: 292Registered Users
    Naturecat, you said that you think your hair will be back to normal in a week. How often do/will you do a PT?

    Current Products:

    • Pacifica Island Vanilla Body Wash (as shampoo)
    • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
    • AG Recoil Curl Activator
    • AG Plastique or Flaxseed & Gelatin hair gel
    • Gelatin as protein treatment

    Techniques: Super Soaker + Plopping Overnight


  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users
    Naturecat, you said that you think your hair will be back to normal in a week. How often do/will you do a PT?

    Good question! Up until recently I was doing one every time I washed, which is every other day. In the past when over conditioned I only did one once or twice a week, which was clearly not enough (and probably why it took a week to recover). I over conditioned last time I washed my hair but just didn't have time for a PT. So my feeling is doing a PT so frequently (plus now doing a stronger gel) I will bounce back even faster. I'm glad you're back to normal. I think my hair is abnormally protein starved, so I can't say I'm surprised you recovered more quickly. As for frizz, sometimes that is the nature of the beast when you have to clarify after overconditioning. Perhaps try aloe vera gel. I've found it to be easier and less heavy than conditioner to wash out of hair. It also sinks into my hair quite easily. And I've found it helps 2nd day hair frizz when I apply it. Well, I'll let you know if I bounce back after a PT tomorrow. But I was considering dying my hair with h. peroxide tomorrow so that may throw off my timetable a bit. We'll see. :)

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    sixelamy wrote: »
    Think of it like squishing seawood through your fingers.. that's kinda like what over-conditioned hair feels like when it's wet.

    EverydayCurls - what conditioner are you using to leave in? Or are you using different ones?

    If the hair feels like seaweed when the conditioner's on it, that's a good thing, but if it happens when just wet and ready for a co-wash then it's time to back off.

    I'm sure a lot of people mistake over-conditioning to just their hair NOT agreeing with certain humectant ingredients in their products. Most of my life my hair has had a serious issue against most so-called "moisturizing" COs as they will cause my hair to be exactly like almost everyone here describes over-conditioned hair even after one single use. I never kept track of what ingredients such COs had in common but one that I think is in "everything" is panthenol so I try to avoid it if I can.

    Anyway, whenever I've felt my hair is still like "seaweed" when I first wet it and if I can run my fingers through it easily I know it's been conditioned enough so I just do a water-wash with a good scalp massage, and once out of the shower I may just use a gel or a light LI; after a time or two I can go back to co-washing like before.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    My hair went through a long period of being soft but refusing to clump or look defrined no matter how much conditioner and styler I used. That was not overconditioning but rather polyquat deposits, possibly on hair somewhat damaged by magnesium sulphate/ epsom salts (I also dye). Polyquats can be the debil to clarify out.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    Glad you're mentioning polyquats again, I often forget that they can be a pain for some people. In a way, when you think about it, their buildup is a form of "over-conditioning" since by definition they're in hair products to soften and "condition" the hair. Of course, I do see how the solution could be different.

    I would bet "anything" that borax can remove polyquats. Whenever I use it to wash or clarify it turns the residue that's on my hair into a milky white liquid and my hair feels completely clean, no more "plastic-y" feeling.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • KauaiMareCurlKauaiMareCurl Posts: 317Registered Users
    Glad you're mentioning polyquats again, I often forget that they can be a pain for some people. In a way, when you think about it, their buildup is a form of "over-conditioning" since by definition they're in hair products to soften and "condition" the hair. Of course, I do see how the solution could be different.

    I would bet "anything" that borax can remove polyquats. Whenever I use it to wash or clarify it turns the residue that's on my hair into a milky white liquid and my hair feels completely clean, no more "plastic-y" feeling.

    Can you elaborate on how you use the Borax to clarify? Quantity, etc? TIA
  • EverydayCurlsEverydayCurls Posts: 292Registered Users
    naturecat wrote: »
    Good question! Up until recently I was doing one every time I washed, which is every other day. In the past when over conditioned I only did one once or twice a week, which was clearly not enough (and probably why it took a week to recover). I over conditioned last time I washed my hair but just didn't have time for a PT. So my feeling is doing a PT so frequently (plus now doing a stronger gel) I will bounce back even faster. I'm glad you're back to normal. I think my hair is abnormally protein starved, so I can't say I'm surprised you recovered more quickly. As for frizz, sometimes that is the nature of the beast when you have to clarify after overconditioning. Perhaps try aloe vera gel. I've found it to be easier and less heavy than conditioner to wash out of hair. It also sinks into my hair quite easily. And I've found it helps 2nd day hair frizz when I apply it. Well, I'll let you know if I bounce back after a PT tomorrow. But I was considering dying my hair with h. peroxide tomorrow so that may throw off my timetable a bit. We'll see. :)

    I think that next wash I'll do a PT, then wash as usual and not use any products. It's hard for me to tell if my hair is overconditioned if I'm using gelatin gel. I've tried aloe gel/juice once (I have two plants so I thought I might as well use them), but it left white residue even after low-pooing. There is some in my conditioner though. Do you apply it in any specific manner?

    If the hair feels like seaweed when the conditioner's on it, that's a good thing, but if it happens when just wet and ready for a co-wash then it's time to back off.

    I'm sure a lot of people mistake over-conditioning to just their hair NOT agreeing with certain humectant ingredients in their products. Most of my life my hair has had a serious issue against most so-called "moisturizing" COs as they will cause my hair to be exactly like almost everyone here describes over-conditioned hair even after one single use. I never kept track of what ingredients such COs had in common but one that I think is in "everything" is panthenol so I try to avoid it if I can.

    Anyway, whenever I've felt my hair is still like "seaweed" when I first wet it and if I can run my fingers through it easily I know it's been conditioned enough so I just do a water-wash with a good scalp massage, and once out of the shower I may just use a gel or a light LI; after a time or two I can go back to co-washing like before.

    I use shampoo bars, which have glycerin in them. I rinse it out (obviously), but could that be the problem? There is panthenol in my new conditioner, but I only tried it once, so that's not what caused the problem. Hopefully it wont cause any either.
    My hair went through a long period of being soft but refusing to clump or look defrined no matter how much conditioner and styler I used. That was not overconditioning but rather polyquat deposits, possibly on hair somewhat damaged by magnesium sulphate/ epsom salts (I also dye). Polyquats can be the debil to clarify out.

    I don't use any polyquats, so thankfully that's not a problem.

    Current Products:

    • Pacifica Island Vanilla Body Wash (as shampoo)
    • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
    • AG Recoil Curl Activator
    • AG Plastique or Flaxseed & Gelatin hair gel
    • Gelatin as protein treatment

    Techniques: Super Soaker + Plopping Overnight


  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    Glad you're mentioning polyquats again, I often forget that they can be a pain for some people. In a way, when you think about it, their buildup is a form of "over-conditioning" since by definition they're in hair products to soften and "condition" the hair. Of course, I do see how the solution could be different.

    I would bet "anything" that borax can remove polyquats. Whenever I use it to wash or clarify it turns the residue that's on my hair into a milky white liquid and my hair feels completely clean, no more "plastic-y" feeling.

    Can you elaborate on how you use the Borax to clarify? Quantity, etc? TIA

    Sure, I only use 1 rounded tsp. of borax dissolved in a cup of water heated to boiling, then I let it cool down to lukewarm and put it in a plastic applicator bottle and start scrubbing my scalp first and use the rest on the hair making sure all hair is saturated by gently working it in well. I usually let it sit on my hair until I finish washing my body, then I will rinse well with warm water. If your hair is long or you think you may have a lot of "gunk" on your hair you can fix 1 1/2 times the above.

    I will say that some people get all uptight when they read that anyone's using borax to wash their hair (even if it's occasionally...), because of the cautions in the box, etc., but I approach this like taking aspirin for a headache. You just use what's enough to do the job and if you're "normal" that won't cause any harm. In a thread in the LHC a girl was using 3 tsp. but she didn't completely dissolve them, however, she used what remained undissolved as a paste to scrub "stubborn patches" on her scalp and she had evidently not had any ill effects from doing so, to the contrary, she said it had healed her scalp from open sores she got after stopping the use of SLS shampoos. Borax has cured dandruff on me a couple of times, I guess because I have candida overgrowth I tend to get it back every few years.

    For myself, I've found that 1 tsp. completely dissolved does a pretty good job for me, however, I have to make the caveat that I have soft water, someone with hard water might probably need to use a little more but IMO that's still perfectly safe.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • KauaiMareCurlKauaiMareCurl Posts: 317Registered Users
    Glad you're mentioning polyquats again, I often forget that they can be a pain for some people. In a way, when you think about it, their buildup is a form of "over-conditioning" since by definition they're in hair products to soften and "condition" the hair. Of course, I do see how the solution could be different.

    I would bet "anything" that borax can remove polyquats. Whenever I use it to wash or clarify it turns the residue that's on my hair into a milky white liquid and my hair feels completely clean, no more "plastic-y" feeling.

    Can you elaborate on how you use the Borax to clarify? Quantity, etc? TIA

    Sure, I only use 1 rounded tsp. of borax dissolved in a cup of water heated to boiling, then I let it cool down to lukewarm and put it in a plastic applicator bottle and start scrubbing my scalp first and use the rest on the hair making sure all hair is saturated by gently working it in well. I usually let it sit on my hair until I finish washing my body, then I will rinse well with warm water. If your hair is long or you think you may have a lot of "gunk" on your hair you can fix 1 1/2 times the above.

    I will say that some people get all uptight when they read that anyone's using borax to wash their hair (even if it's occasionally...), because of the cautions in the box, etc., but I approach this like taking aspirin for a headache. You just use what's enough to do the job and if you're "normal" that won't cause any harm. In a thread in the LHC a girl was using 3 tsp. but she didn't completely dissolve them, however, she used what remained undissolved as a paste to scrub "stubborn patches" on her scalp and she had evidently not had any ill effects from doing so, to the contrary, she said it had healed her scalp from open sores she got after stopping the use of SLS shampoos. Borax has cured dandruff on me a couple of times, I guess because I have candida overgrowth I tend to get it back every few years.

    For myself, I've found that 1 tsp. completely dissolved does a pretty good job for me, however, I have to make the caveat that I have soft water, someone with hard water might probably need to use a little more but IMO that's still perfectly safe.

    Thanks! I will try it next wash day :-)
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    YW! Last week I did a borax wash before a protein DT to make sure I'd removed all coating from my hair for optimal penetration. :smile:
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • EverydayCurlsEverydayCurls Posts: 292Registered Users
    Thanks for the advice everyone. My hair is now almost normal. I can use conditioner every other wash, for now at least.

    Current Products:

    • Pacifica Island Vanilla Body Wash (as shampoo)
    • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
    • AG Recoil Curl Activator
    • AG Plastique or Flaxseed & Gelatin hair gel
    • Gelatin as protein treatment

    Techniques: Super Soaker + Plopping Overnight


  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    Great to "hear" that! Be sure to clarify maybe once a month if you see your curls losing definition or getting a little frizz. You can try the "Lemon-aid", all you do is mix a portion of CO with the juice of a lemon (for my fine hair 1/2 was always enough). You can also use lime or even grapefruit juice, and it doesn't even have to be fresh, some people have used reconstituted and it worked fine. Note: don't over-rinse, I think the CG book instructs not to rinse it out at all but I always did.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • EverydayCurlsEverydayCurls Posts: 292Registered Users
    Great to "hear" that! Be sure to clarify maybe once a month if you see your curls losing definition or getting a little frizz. You can try the "Lemon-aid", all you do is mix a portion of CO with the juice of a lemon (for my fine hair 1/2 was always enough). You can also use lime or even grapefruit juice, and it doesn't even have to be fresh, some people have used reconstituted and it worked fine. Note: don't over-rinse, I think the CG book instructs not to rinse it out at all but I always did.

    I might try that next time. Ever since taking better care of my hair I don't have a lot of frizz (a bit, but I don't mind), except for some reason my hair is always frizzy when wet. Most of it goes away once dry, but I'm not sure why it happens in the first place. It happened even when my hair was perfectly moisturized and when I do protein treatments so I don't think the moisture/protein balance is the cause.

    Current Products:

    • Pacifica Island Vanilla Body Wash (as shampoo)
    • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
    • AG Recoil Curl Activator
    • AG Plastique or Flaxseed & Gelatin hair gel
    • Gelatin as protein treatment

    Techniques: Super Soaker + Plopping Overnight


  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    Acids (eg. lemon) are chelating rather than clarifying.

    I would recommend anyone trying baking soda or borax check the pH of their solution, very alkaline solutions can strip the hair of its water resistant/ protective fatty f-layer (18-MEA). Baking soda is pH 8 or 9 depending which source you trust, not a million miles from standard permanent hair dyes (pH 9 or 10).

    Wendy (Sciencey Hairblog and Goosefootprints) notes that
    "In my experience with hair analyses, it is unpredictable whose hair will swell and thus become more porous in acids and bases (alkaline solutions). Some people's hair is very sensitive to vinegar solution, but not citric acid or vice versa. Some people's hair does not swell in baking soda solution, but does in the lather of a strongly alkaline soap bar. You cannot easily predict how your hair will respond."
    Science-y Hair Blog: Moisturizing Low Porosity Hair

    Other useful links
    Science-y Hair Blog: pH of Common Homemade Rinses
    THE NATURAL HAVEN: Can you wash your hair with Baking Soda or Apple Cider Vinegar? : A scientific experiment!
    THE NATURAL HAVEN: Investigation: Does pH affect your hair cuticle?
    THE NATURAL HAVEN: Can baking soda or castile soap relax your hair?
    Your 18-MEA Cuticle Layer: Once It's Gone, There's No Turning Back

    An Indepth Look at Porosity and Naturally Curly Hair | Curly Nikki | Natural Hair Styles and Natural Hair Care

    Hair structure, damage and interaction with dyes - Clinical Services Journal
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    Lemon/lime juice, more so than vinegar rinses IMO, have worked for removing product buildup for well over a decade for countless curlies following CG... Part of the reason buildup happens is due to the interaction of minerals in the water with the products, therefore, for the intended purposes without getting all "technical" they do clarify.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil