Breakage

shocurlshocurl Posts: 11Registered Users
I started cg about 3 months ago with deva products but these seriously did not agree with my hair and it started breaking off. As a result of scrunching I’ve also got a ton of angel knots along the length of my hair which also contributes to breakage. As each curl is made up of a mish mash of lengths, they never clump together properly and the flyaway stands inevitably dry as frizz. Short of shaving my head, is there anything I can do to make the stands clump and reduce the frizz? I’ve got 3b/c hair (i think), just past my shoulders.



I’m currently using a combo of:



Tresemme naturals conditioner

shea moisture smoothie and soufflé

Argan oil

Ecostyler pink gel



Not all at the same time though!

Comments

  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Several thoughts occur. Did you do a clarifying wash, just a simple sulfate shampoo, after stopping the Diva products? Are your individual strands fine or coarse, and has your hair had any damage from heat styling or chemical treatments? Your issue sounds either like buildup, which clarifying would deal with, or either too much or too little protein, depending on your hair's protein preferences. You could go for a cut for sure, just to even things up so the strands can clump together. Is their a stylist specializing in curly cuts in your area?
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • shocurlshocurl Posts: 11Registered Users
    Yes, I used a baby shampoo before switching products. I have course/almost wirey(sp?) strands at the top of my head, and the sides and back are fine and silky. No chemical treatments or colour and I haven't used heat in 2 years so I know it's not that.

    How do I know whether my hair needs protein or doesn't have enough? I'll have to research curly stylists...my mum was a hairdresser so i've always had her trim my hair
  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    The only way to really know how your hair reacts to protein is to see how it behaves after using products that contain protein. To further complicate the situation, some hair likes some types of protein but doesn't like others as well. With my medium coarse hair, I usually assume it wants more moisture before I assume it wants protein, especially since mine isn't heat or chemical damaged either. What's your styling routine currently, as in, how are you applying your products and drying your hair?
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • shocurlshocurl Posts: 11Registered Users
    Is protein just labelled as “protein” or is there another name for it? I co wash once or twice a week. If my hair needs clarifying i use Palmers Olive Oil Formula Smoothing Shampoo every 2 or three weeks. After detangling with a wide tooth comb andrinsing the CO completely I blitz with cold and water use shea moisture smoothie, then a little bit of the shea moisture soufflé on top. Then a bit of argan oil on the ends. I leaveit to air dry after that.



    One the second day I spritz with water and use ecostyler to smooth down any frizzies.
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    shocurl wrote: »
    Is protein just labelled as “protein” or is there another name for it?

    Proteins are commonly labelled as silk protein, wheat protein, soya protein, keratin and collagen. They can have the word "hydrolysed" before them.

    Depending on your hair (and any allergies) you may find that one protein works for you and others don't. For example silk proteins may work and give you softer hair, but collagen may lead you to have rough hair.
  • shocurlshocurl Posts: 11Registered Users
    Thank you both for taking time out to reply, it's appreciated :toothy4:
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    Blueblood wrote: »
    shocurl wrote: »
    Is protein just labelled as “protein” or is there another name for it?

    Proteins are commonly labelled as silk protein, wheat protein, soya protein, keratin and collagen. They can have the word "hydrolysed" before them.

    Depending on your hair (and any allergies) you may find that one protein works for you and others don't. For example silk proteins may work and give you softer hair, but collagen may lead you to have rough hair.

    Just one small "addendum": protein can also be listed as "amino acids", sometimes just one or two will be listed individually (like cysteine).

    And please allow me to disagree with what you said about collagen. The page I'm giving shocurl says that it increases elasticity and that has been my own experience. It's the protein in VO5 KLS which has been my main co-wash for more years than I can remember, and more recently also my curl-enhancing LI. Perhaps you were really thinking of keratin...? That's the one more people tend to end up with rough hair when overdoing it.

    Shocurl:

    Here's a page with very useful info: All About Different Types of Proteins in Hair Products

    I doubt that there's much you can do to get your hair to clump right now, sounds like you're really in need of a cut, my hair starts to get stringly when it needs a trim so I know this by personal experience, but it only makes sense that if there's hair of different lengths they just cannot stay together to form clumps.

    I'm inclined to believe that despite not having chemically or heat processed hair it must've been weak for some reason before starting the Deva products, that I know of there's nothing in them that can cause breakage, however, our own hair can accumulate metals and other substances that might react negatively with good things.

    I do not know what you mean by "angel knots" but scrunching should not cause any type of knotting on healthy hair, knotting is a sign of damage or at the very least serious lack of moisture. Perhaps your hair is low-porosity and moisture and other goodies have a hard time penetrating the shaft and sit on it creating buildup...
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • shocurlshocurl Posts: 11Registered Users
    Thank you!

    I meant fairy knots, sorry. Its when individual strands loop on themselves and knot up. I've got lots of them :(

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4dn0BOJCS6-D2-wTFY6vdDgfX-z6evvIiGUXv02zbbbtE4244VA
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    Ah, lol! I did a search and what I found was the fairy knots. Well, that page where the pic came from mentioned DTs 2x/mo., but when I started CG with damaged hair I did them 1x/week. I just gave someone else some tips that you may want to look at too, they're in this thread: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/173307-horrendous-knots-my-hair-why-does-keep-happening.html#post2284141

    If when you co-wash you are not reapplying the CO and then just rinsing lightly then you should try that too, it really helps.

    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • CurlyShorty3405CurlyShorty3405 Posts: 196Registered Users
    shocurl wrote: »
    I started cg about 3 months ago with deva products but these seriously did not agree with my hair and it started breaking off. As a result of scrunching I’ve also got a ton of angel knots along the length of my hair which also contributes to breakage. As each curl is made up of a mish mash of lengths, they never clump together properly and the flyaway stands inevitably dry as frizz. Short of shaving my head, is there anything I can do to make the stands clump and reduce the frizz? I’ve got 3b/c hair (i think), just past my shoulders.



    I’m currently using a combo of:



    Tresemme naturals conditioner

    shea moisture smoothie and soufflé

    Argan oil

    Ecostyler pink gel



    Not all at the same time though!

    Deva made my hair break too. I used it for two weeks and had to stop due the amount of breakage. And I wasn't even scrunching either, my hair would just break.
    2B-2C Density-Medium/High Width-medium Length-Medium

    LoPoo: Onesta Hydrating Shampoo
    CoWash: LP Curl Conditioning Wash
    ROs: Onesta Hydrating Conditioner, LP Curl Detangling Rinse
    Weekly DC: LP Restore Mask Treatment
    Leave in: LP Restore Targeted Repair Cream
    Stylers: (in application order): LP Prime Style Extender Cream, LI, LP Curl Defining Style Cream, LP No Frizz Weightless Styling Spray, LP PHD Night Cap
    Sealer: Body Shop Olive Oil/Body Shop Argan Oil/Josie Maran Argan Oil
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    shocurl wrote: »
    I started cg about 3 months ago with deva products but these seriously did not agree with my hair and it started breaking off. As a result of scrunching I’ve also got a ton of angel knots along the length of my hair which also contributes to breakage. As each curl is made up of a mish mash of lengths, they never clump together properly and the flyaway stands inevitably dry as frizz. Short of shaving my head, is there anything I can do to make the stands clump and reduce the frizz? I’ve got 3b/c hair (i think), just past my shoulders.



    I’m currently using a combo of:



    Tresemme naturals conditioner

    shea moisture smoothie and soufflé

    Argan oil

    Ecostyler pink gel



    Not all at the same time though!

    Deva made my hair break too. I used it for two weeks and had to stop due the amount of breakage. And I wasn't even scrunching either, my hair would just break.

    Wow, maybe it's the a-cone... I'm going to look up the list of ingredients again to check what else might look suspicious. But that's really the way it goes, there's people whose hair has gotten damaged with baking soda or a little vinegar rinse that actually benefits others. Others can use a caustic relaxer or bleach for years and still have decent hair.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • themhappycurlzthemhappycurlz Posts: 18Registered Users
    I had the same problems when I first started out with CG. My hair is fine mostly 3b. To reduce the fairy knots I never wash my hair upside down, I don´t scrunch my hair when drying (I know eveyone else does it but it does nothing for me) and I don´t plop. Also I have to use a defining method (fingercoils or curls, twistouts...) to keep my ends smooth so they won´t be doing crazy things when I´m not looking :confused5:.
    As for products I try to reduce products with protein. I also use the LOC method. So I cowash, rinse cold, leave a little conditioner in and start with the leave-in (As I Am). Then I rake in an oil (love arganoil). Last I use the SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie. It has protein in it and without the As I Am my hair hates it, but in the combination it´s great. As I said, without defining my hair gets poofy, dry and I have a lot more breakage (I posted an undefined and a defined pic in the type 3 thread).
    Hope this helps.
    3b - fine - low porosity - low/medium density curls
    Pre-poo: Olive and Arganoil with Aloe Vera and Condi

    Cleansing: CV BBC/ ACV
    Condish: Drug store brands
    Leave-In: As I Am, SM Thickening Growth Milk
    Oils: Olive, Argan, Avocado, Grape Seed
    Styler: SM CES, Eco Styler Gel

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