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So if I am not "natural" what I can I call my hair routine?

chupiechupie Posts: 5,275Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
Huge blow up on Curly Nikki because she interviewed Waterlily716. Twitter i worse than the comments on the article. So, OK, I do get what is being said to a degree, and I guess I can understand some of the territoriality but that said, what do you call it when you embrace your natural hair instead of cutting it off (like I did for 15 or so years) or perming it (like I did before the short hair phase) if you are white? What is "ok" to say and not offend someone? This kind of reminds me of when the gal here told me I have to work too hard on my hair. But the thing is, I have to do *something*. I have to either do the wavy/curly thing or do the flat iron or chop thing. The fact is *I* have called my hair natural but I get that I do not have the *same* issues.

"There’s something very freeing about accepting your natural hair"- Sarah Naturally Glam | Curly Nikki | Natural Hair Styles and Natural Hair Care
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Comments

  • KauaiMareCurlKauaiMareCurl Posts: 317Registered Users
    When people ask me about my waves/curls, I say, "my hair is naturally curly/wavy" or sometime I say, "it grows out of my head this way." My hair is natural, down to the streaks of white that are slowly overtaking the black.

    I do a fair amount of manipulation to enhance curl and minimize frizz, but it shouldn't matter to anyone else what I do or how long it takes. I'm slowly trying to free the perfect size four body I have lovingly covered with a layer of fat (I wanted to keep it from getting messed up lol) and the time I devote to uncovering that perfect body takes WAY longer than the time it takes me to do my hair. :-)
  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users
    I may be wrong, but it occurs to me that a basic phrase has taken on cultural significance. There are misunderstandings now because it has at least two meanings, and each meaning is considered valid by the person saying it. I'll have to think of some comparative examples, but other words or phrases have been claimed by communities who become frustrated when the traditional understanding of the term is used. As far as I'm concerned, a fixed notion of whose hair is natural and whose isn't is not particularly helpful, what with hair type, properties, and environmental and cultural conditions being so fluid. I think I'll have a look in the academic databases to see if or how this has been addressed.
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • KauaiMareCurlKauaiMareCurl Posts: 317Registered Users
    And for the record, I am neither black or white, but a lovely yellow/brown mix. My paternal grandmother had Troy Polamalu type hair and as MY brown blood line thinned out with the yellow influence, so did the curly/kinky hair.

    It is what it is and as a child I accepted the fact that I would never naturally have the stick straight, jet black hair that so many of my full blooded Asian friends had.
  • KauaiMareCurlKauaiMareCurl Posts: 317Registered Users
    I may be wrong, but it occurs to me that a basic phrase has taken on cultural significance. There are misunderstandings now because it has at least two meanings, and each meaning is considered valid by the person saying it. I'll have to think of some comparative examples, but other words or phrases have been claimed by communities who become frustrated when the traditional understanding of the term is used. As far as I'm concerned, a fixed notion of whose hair is natural and whose isn't is not particularly helpful, what with hair type, properties, and environmental and cultural conditions being so fluid. I think I'll have a look in the academic databases to see if or how this has been addressed.

    Am off topic but example from my brown heritage: The Big Kahuna which has come to mean The Big Boss or The Main Person. Guess what? Kahuna = Priest or medicine man/woman. In Hawaiian, Luna = Boss
  • BotticelliBritBotticelliBrit Posts: 2,075Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I think the reactions are ridiculous. Why is it wrong to call yourself natural when you are, in fact, natural? So I can't say I'm embracing my natural hair unless my hair is a certain texture? What a load of crap.

    On twitter some of the comments about this seem to have a "oh look, another poor little white curl 'embracing' her perfect hair", which I feel is so unfair and WRONG.

    I don't get all these bad attitudes and all this backlash. Racism works both ways and I feel like a lot of the comments toward Sarah's feature are laden with it
    3B. Med porosity. Med thickness. Med density.

    LP: Shea Moisture (currently JBCO)
    Conditioner/CW: Jason Aloe Vera

    LI: Aunt Jackie's Curls & Coils Quench
    Refreshing: TRESemmé Naturals Aloe Vera & Avocado
    Gel: DevaCurl Ultra Defining Gel
    DC:
    Aunt Jackie's Soft & Sassy Super Duper Softening Conditioner
    Treatments: Coconut oil/Coconut milk

    UK curly. CG since Oct 2013.
    Growing my hair to WL when dry :thumright:
  • KrullenbolKrullenbol Posts: 114Registered Users
    I see natural as you wearing your hair the way it comes out of your scalp (if that makes sense) I'm sorry but I think the reactions to that article are so ignorant. There are so many white people with coarse, kinky hair, and black people with fine curly/wavy hair. I don't think hair texture has a lot to do with the color of your skin. In addition, I think if you keep bringing people down because they have a looser curl pattern instead of yours, you still have not really accepted your own hair.


    I understand that she must have been upset about the comments below the article, nevertheless, I think she should have given it more thought how she was gonna tweet about it. Her tweet probably made it worse.
  • claudine191claudine191 Posts: 8,221Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I think the reactions are ridiculous. Why is it wrong to call yourself natural when you are, in fact, natural? So I can't say I'm embracing my natural hair unless my hair is a certain texture? What a load of crap.

    On twitter some of the comments about this seem to have a "oh look, another poor little white curl 'embracing' her perfect hair", which I feel is so unfair and WRONG.

    I don't get all these bad attitudes and all this backlash. Racism works both ways and I feel like a lot of the comments toward Sarah's feature are laden with it

    I see your point, but as a longtime member (2 0 0 8 ), I wish I'd followed others' advice and stayed away from the subject entirely.
  • EverydayCurlsEverydayCurls Posts: 301Registered Users Curl Novice
    I understand that people with a tighter curl pattern may have different challenges, but I think that everyone with curly hair has some similarities in their struggles, and instead of creating even more distinctions between hair types, why not all support each other? My hair looks a lot like Waterlilly716's, and I still have had a lot of negative comments even though it is a looser curl pattern and am just now starting to leave my hair down more often.To me, "natural hair" is hair which has the curl pattern (or straight hair) as it naturally grew out of your head. Whether you're hair pattern is 1a or 4c, if you leave it that way, it's natural hair. Also, white people can sometimes have very tight curls as well. My aunt has pale skin and is blonde, yet has 3c/4a curls.

    Current Products:

    • Homemade Shampoo
    • Nature's Gate Biotin Conditioner
    • AG Recoil Curl Activator
    • AG Plastique
      + Plopping Overnight


    www.joyfulmeadow.com

    www.facebook.com/joyfulmeadow

    www.instagram.com/joyful.meadow

  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users
    I may be wrong, but it occurs to me that a basic phrase has taken on cultural significance. There are misunderstandings now because it has at least two meanings, and each meaning is considered valid by the person saying it. I'll have to think of some comparative examples, but other words or phrases have been claimed by communities who become frustrated when the traditional understanding of the term is used. As far as I'm concerned, a fixed notion of whose hair is natural and whose isn't is not particularly helpful, what with hair type, properties, and environmental and cultural conditions being so fluid. I think I'll have a look in the academic databases to see if or how this has been addressed.

    Am off topic but example from my brown heritage: The Big Kahuna which has come to mean The Big Boss or The Main Person. Guess what? Kahuna = Priest or medicine man/woman. In Hawaiian, Luna = Boss

    Yes, English in general has borrowed a lot from other languages, with evolving definitions. What is frustrating is when one group seeks to dismiss the experiences of another by claiming ownership of a term.
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users
    @BotticelliBrit Part of the issue is that some people think that CurlyNikki is only for people with African American heritage.

    So they have an issue if you aren't Black first and aren't American second. This was really apparent in their old forum where they tolerated posts which would get you banned here.
  • BotticelliBritBotticelliBrit Posts: 2,075Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Blueblood wrote: »
    @BotticelliBrit Part of the issue is that some people think that CurlyNikki is only for people with African American heritage.

    So they have an issue if you aren't Black first and aren't American second. This was really apparent in their old forum where they tolerated posts which would get you banned here.

    That's so ridiculous and hurtful, really. I don't understand attitudes like that because they're so exclusive. Why can't everybody be a part of something? Why does it have to be segregated?

    Another thing that really agitated me about this whole thing was the amount of women outright saying 'why is it every time WE have something, white women have to jump on it and make it theirs?'. I mean that is just so freaking offensive to me. I can't enjoy something, or embrace my natural hair, because that would mean I'm trying to steal something from black women? It's just plain silly.

    Then again, a lot of the arguments were silly. A few people who were accused of being racist responded with 'black people can't be racist', which I LOLd at (though I don't think it was meant to be a joke :P)

    (I know what you mean about the forums. I only visited over there a couple of times, and haven't felt the desire to log back on.)
    3B. Med porosity. Med thickness. Med density.

    LP: Shea Moisture (currently JBCO)
    Conditioner/CW: Jason Aloe Vera

    LI: Aunt Jackie's Curls & Coils Quench
    Refreshing: TRESemmé Naturals Aloe Vera & Avocado
    Gel: DevaCurl Ultra Defining Gel
    DC:
    Aunt Jackie's Soft & Sassy Super Duper Softening Conditioner
    Treatments: Coconut oil/Coconut milk

    UK curly. CG since Oct 2013.
    Growing my hair to WL when dry :thumright:
  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users
    chupie wrote: »
    Huge blow up on Curly Nikki because she interviewed Waterlily716. Twitter i worse than the comments on the article. So, OK, I do get what is being said to a degree, and I guess I can understand some of the territoriality but that said, what do you call it when you embrace your natural hair instead of cutting it off (like I did for 15 or so years) or perming it (like I did before the short hair phase) if you are white? What is "ok" to say and not offend someone? This kind of reminds me of when the gal here told me I have to work too hard on my hair. But the thing is, I have to do *something*. I have to either do the wavy/curly thing or do the flat iron or chop thing. The fact is *I* have called my hair natural but I get that I do not have the *same* issues.

    "There’s something very freeing about accepting your natural hair"- Sarah Naturally Glam | Curly Nikki | Natural Hair Styles and Natural Hair Care

    You know what? I was thinking about this, and who cares if you put effort into getting more curl? Some people with a tighter curl pattern put a ton of effort into loosening their curl, what with braidouts and twistouts and that sort of thing. Locs, braids, all these are styling options that take time. Do these somehow not count as well? I guess what I'm saying is that you should never feel excluded because you style your hair after washing it. It's healthy and looks awesome, and that's what matters.
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • BotticelliBritBotticelliBrit Posts: 2,075Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I'm wondering if there would've been less backlash if Sarah had transitioned at some point. A lot of the comments seem to also be attacking the fact that all she did to embrace her hair was 'take it out of a bun'.

    It's almost as though you can't say you're natural now if you haven't transitioned from chemical treatments in order to be natural. I'd be really curious to see the reaction differed if there was a post about a white person who did actually transition.

    Do you guys think it'd be met with less negativity? Or the same?
    3B. Med porosity. Med thickness. Med density.

    LP: Shea Moisture (currently JBCO)
    Conditioner/CW: Jason Aloe Vera

    LI: Aunt Jackie's Curls & Coils Quench
    Refreshing: TRESemmé Naturals Aloe Vera & Avocado
    Gel: DevaCurl Ultra Defining Gel
    DC:
    Aunt Jackie's Soft & Sassy Super Duper Softening Conditioner
    Treatments: Coconut oil/Coconut milk

    UK curly. CG since Oct 2013.
    Growing my hair to WL when dry :thumright:
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users
    @BotticelliBrit there is a view in academic circles that people who aren't White can't be racist as race is used as a power construct with White people on the top and Black people on the bottom. This view ignores the cr*p that happens between the same and different ethnic groups of colour.
  • BotticelliBritBotticelliBrit Posts: 2,075Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Blueblood wrote: »
    @BotticelliBrit there is a view in academic circles that people who aren't White can't be racist as race is used as a power construct with White people on the top and Black people on the bottom. This view ignores the cr*p that happens between the same and different ethnic groups of colour.

    How odd! Isn't that basically re-defining the term 'racism'? Because I've always seen it described as simply being discriminatory against someone of a different race / applying certain characteristics to all people of a race / believing people of a different race should be treated differently / believing certain races are superior etc.

    I think it's pretty ridiculous to believe only white people can be racist because they 'hold the power' or whatever :/ That basically belittles any victims of racism / racist acts, where the perpetrators weren't white
    3B. Med porosity. Med thickness. Med density.

    LP: Shea Moisture (currently JBCO)
    Conditioner/CW: Jason Aloe Vera

    LI: Aunt Jackie's Curls & Coils Quench
    Refreshing: TRESemmé Naturals Aloe Vera & Avocado
    Gel: DevaCurl Ultra Defining Gel
    DC:
    Aunt Jackie's Soft & Sassy Super Duper Softening Conditioner
    Treatments: Coconut oil/Coconut milk

    UK curly. CG since Oct 2013.
    Growing my hair to WL when dry :thumright:
  • Corrina777Corrina777 Posts: 3,193Registered Users
    Racism, sexism, etc are based on the distribution of power. However, this does not preclude any individual, regardless of race, from being prejudiced against another race. The difference is that individual prejudice doesn't negate the unfair balance of power. For example, I can decide that I hate men and in my role as a manager I can do everything in my power to avoid hiring a man in my department. But my individual feelings do not negate the power structure that still has women making only an average of 80 cents for every dollar a man makes, or where there is only a small number of female CEOs in Fortune 500 companies.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    3a/f/iii
    Modified CG since 11/5/11
    CLEANSE: CJ Daily Fix, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
    RO: SS Caitlin's Conditioner, CJ Beauticurls Strengthening
    LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
    STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier,Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,156Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I think the comments are 100% completely ridiculous. Anything negative to be said reflects on the negativity one holds in their heart. It angers me when someone gets attacked for absolutely no reason. You can call it whatever you want, doesn't change the fact that in the end it doesn't matter what ethnicity any of us are... we are all people. And in this instance, with curly hair.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,275Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I'm wondering if there would've been less backlash if Sarah had transitioned at some point. A lot of the comments seem to also be attacking the fact that all she did to embrace her hair was 'take it out of a bun'.

    It's almost as though you can't say you're natural now if you haven't transitioned from chemical treatments in order to be natural. I'd be really curious to see the reaction differed if there was a post about a white person who did actually transition.

    Do you guys think it'd be met with less negativity? Or the same?

    Highly doubt it would have made a difference in this backlash. The main beef seems to be that she was featured on Nikki's site at all. But instead of being mad at Nikki they are mad at Sarah.
  • kolochitakolochita Posts: 118Registered Users
    I find this ridiculously annoying...I am tired of hearing African American women complain (like the commenters on the article) about white women taking over whatever. It's very unfair to claim the whole movement is about them when it obviously includes women worldwide from different backgrounds. Like someone else said here there are white women with kinky hair and there are black women with looser curls. I had friends in high school who mistreated their kinks for years (not black, all Latin Americans). I myself didn't accept my Latin 3a hair, I didn't feel beautiful while watching the lucky girls with straight hair. The natural hair movement is for anyone who ever felt dissatisfied with their hair and wanted a change foe the better. And that includes us, whatever ethnicity we belong to.
    Sorry for the long rant...I feel very passionate about this, I can totally relate to Sarah's story.

    Sent from my GT-S6310N using CurlTalk App
    Latina

    Type: 3a
    Dense, fine/medium texture, low porosity

    Low-poo: Devacurl No-Poo/ Yes to Carrots Nourishing Shampoo/ Elacel Aloe Vera Shampoo
    Conditioner: Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition Conditioner
    Leave-in: Devacurl Set It Free/Lush R& B
    Styling: Herbal Essences Set Me Up Spray-Gel/ L'Oreal Silk & Gloss Curl Power Mousse
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users

    How odd! Isn't that basically re-defining the term 'racism'?
    Nope.

    Academics often have more comprehensive definitions from the person on the street which differ in their meaning. Both these can be the same or differ from the legal meaning.

    Corrina777 explained it well. In her example her refusal to hire men as a female manager would be prejudice in academic circles, sexist according to the person on the street, and direct sexual discriminationunder English law.
  • WildfoxWildfox Posts: 148Registered Users
    In my opinion a lot of the criticism was warranted because I understand that there are few public outlets that celebrate black women's hair while anyone can flip open any magazine or turn on the tv and see countless white women in the spotlight. From the comments I did read that seemed to be one of the main issues with the article. However the site owners make the decision of who is featured and what content they include, mocking the girl for being chosen and sharing her experience wasn't right and personally attacking someone tends to make them less receptive to the messages you would like them to understand.
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users
    kolochita wrote: »
    I find this ridiculously annoying...I am tired of hearing African American women complain (like the commenters on the article) about white women taking over whatever. It's very unfair to claim the whole movement is about them when it obviously includes women worldwide from different backgrounds.
    But to them it's their movement so it is about them.

    Nikki probably would have got away with it if the person interviewed had straightened their hair and was of Latin, Asian or a Jewish background.

    Interestingly I was reading this article earlier
  • EpictasticEpictastic Posts: 9Registered Users
    Blueblood wrote: »
    kolochita wrote: »
    I find this ridiculously annoying...I am tired of hearing African American women complain (like the commenters on the article) about white women taking over whatever. It's very unfair to claim the whole movement is about them when it obviously includes women worldwide from different backgrounds.
    But to them it's their movement so it is about them.

    Nikki probably would have got away with it if the person interviewed had straightened their hair and was of Latin, Asian or a Jewish background.

    Interestingly I was reading this article earlier


    I could understand getting angry and upset at that article. I couldn't really understand getting upset over someone wearing their hair natural, or saying that someone who isn't black can't say their hair is natural.
  • kolochitakolochita Posts: 118Registered Users
    You know, after thinking some more about this, I realize this is purely a US issue, whatever racism may exist in other countries that may translate to preferences of one hair type over another. I do think there is a natural hair movement worldwide, separate and with different meanings than the African American one. It does suck to witness this kind of stuff though.

    Sent from my GT-S6310N using CurlTalk App
    Latina

    Type: 3a
    Dense, fine/medium texture, low porosity

    Low-poo: Devacurl No-Poo/ Yes to Carrots Nourishing Shampoo/ Elacel Aloe Vera Shampoo
    Conditioner: Garnier Fructis Triple Nutrition Conditioner
    Leave-in: Devacurl Set It Free/Lush R& B
    Styling: Herbal Essences Set Me Up Spray-Gel/ L'Oreal Silk & Gloss Curl Power Mousse
  • XhexaniaXhexania Posts: 65Registered Users
    The comments made about Sarah and her hair were unnecessary and just wrong. Her hair is certainly natural, and I don't doubt that she has had her own struggles along her journey. If I have to comment on whether or not her natural hair and my natural hair are viewed in the same light, however, I simply can't say that they are, which is probably the root of that incessant squabbling that went on in the comments below Sarah's feature.
    Fine Strands, High Density, (Seemingly) Normal Porosity
  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,059 Administrator
    A comment which IMO sums up how many AA women feel:

    "I'm really not pressed over the word. They can use "natural" because i'm sure it's difficult for them to create anything of their own -- just stay w/in their own natural community. I don't care if it's 'being exclusive'. I guess it doesn't matter that we as Black women are erased from a large sector of beauty. Why do WE always have to consider everyone else? Who considers all the young AA girls growing up w/o proper representation? Whites are CONSTANTLY assured that they are beautiful and they are the "standard". God forbid, Black women come together for something positive and celebrate their hair's beauty.

    Our hair textures are nothing alike. Black women need their own space to talk about, accept and love one another's hair after centuries of doing/receiving the opposite. They don't realize that as children, most AA girls got their hair chemically relaxed. Your mother/caretaker is silently telling you that your hair is hard to manage, shameful, unruly, not fit to be worn in public, etc. Many AA women didn't even SEE their natural texture until they were old enough to make the decision to grow it out, and with that decision comes a lot of unsettling questions. The natural hair community for AA's is more than just 'removing a scrunchie.' "

    As a Black woman with the more "accepted" (though not always) hair type of 3b....even *I* completely get what she's saying.

    Also, a lot of the AA natural community are unhappy with several major creators of hair care products for kinky-textured naturals who have sold their companies to white owners for big bucks.....and as SOON as that happened, said products not only changed ingredients but began to be marketed as either promising looser curls, or seeming to target looser-textured naturals, or both...(yet again) shutting out women with 4-type textures.

    Couple this with the fact that AA's are effectively COMPLETELY locked out of the Black beauty supply industry by Asians (there's a VERY good documentary on this)....and I TOTALLY see why there is controversy.
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users
    kolochita wrote: »
    You know, after thinking some more about this, I realize this is purely a US issue, whatever racism may exist in other countries that may translate to preferences of one hair type over another. I do think there is a natural hair movement worldwide, separate and with different meanings than the African American one. It does suck to witness this kind of stuff though.

    Sent from my GT-S6310N using CurlTalk App
    There is but depending on country there are still issues with racism due to European colonisation.

    It's also not as simple as saying if you are Black with natural hair you will be discriminated against. In some places if you are a particular ethnic group with natural hair you will be discriminated against but people from different ethnic groups who have the same or similar hair to you are not.
  • waterlily716waterlily716 Posts: 781Registered Users
    chupie wrote: »
    I'm wondering if there would've been less backlash if Sarah had transitioned at some point. A lot of the comments seem to also be attacking the fact that all she did to embrace her hair was 'take it out of a bun'.

    It's almost as though you can't say you're natural now if you haven't transitioned from chemical treatments in order to be natural. I'd be really curious to see the reaction differed if there was a post about a white person who did actually transition.

    Do you guys think it'd be met with less negativity? Or the same?

    Highly doubt it would have made a difference in this backlash. The main beef seems to be that she was featured on Nikki's site at all. But instead of being mad at Nikki they are mad at Sarah.

    Yeah I definitely fanned the flame on twitter... But I was getting hundreds of mentions on there. I had to say something. However, I kept it pretty respectful so I'm not sure what would have been a better response. (Besides nothing at all.)

    Thanks for the support! I had no idea this feature would cause such a huge backlash. -_-
    [sigpic][/sigpic]
    3a/b low to normal porosity curls
    CG method since 2006 @:-)
    CO wash: suave naturals coconut
    rinse out CO: GVP conditioning balm
    stylers: KCNT, CK, jessicurl spiralicious
    @waterlily716 on YouTube, FB, & Twitter
    Blog: Curls and Blossoms

  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users
    @sinistral55 did curlynikki specifically say her site was for African American women?

    I noticed over the past few months her glam features has had individuals who are Black but are not African American as they don't live in the US or state clearly they are immigrants from elsewhere.

    This is a mistake a lot of the commenters are making they thought it was for African Americans when it wasn't.

    Website owners can see in what countries their site is being read and some target their site accordingly.

    Anyway there is another Black natural hair site which in it's title has the word "Black" which makes it clear who the target audience is. It also has articles and contributors from around the world making it clear again it's target audience is Black women worldwide.
  • BotticelliBritBotticelliBrit Posts: 2,075Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    A comment which IMO sums up how many AA women feel:

    "I'm really not pressed over the word. They can use "natural" because i'm sure it's difficult for them to create anything of their own -- just stay w/in their own natural community. I don't care if it's 'being exclusive'. I guess it doesn't matter that we as Black women are erased from a large sector of beauty. Why do WE always have to consider everyone else? Who considers all the young AA girls growing up w/o proper representation? Whites are CONSTANTLY assured that they are beautiful and they are the "standard". God forbid, Black women come together for something positive and celebrate their hair's beauty. Our hair textures are nothing alike. Black women need their own space to talk about, accept and love one another's hair after centuries of doing/receiving the opposite. They don't realize that as children, most AA girls got their hair chemically relaxed. Your mother/caretaker is silently telling you that your hair is hard to manage, shameful, unruly, not fit to be worn in public, etc. Many AA women didn't even SEE their natural texture until they were old enough to make the decision to grow it out, and with that decision comes a lot of unsettling questions. The natural hair community for AA's is more than just 'removing a scrunchie.'

    Just to pick up on some stuff you said here . . .

    Everyone should always be considerate of other people. If things have been hard for someone, that doesn't mean they get to make other people feel bad. Just because they may have suffered more, that doesn't mean they can villainise someone who may not have struggled to the degree they have. Non-AA curlies are also trying to accept themselves.

    'Whites' aren't constantly assured they're beautiful. I'm actually really sick of this misguided image that white people are never discriminated against and are always told they're perfect. It's the biggest load of crap ever and such an easy way to try and excuse hurtful comments and behaviour toward people who aren't black.

    I have never been told I'm the 'standard'. That quote mentioned most AA girls getting their hair chemically relaxed as children and many not seeing their natural texture until they were old enough to make the decision to grow it out. My mum actually did get my hair relaxed a couple of times when I was a kid too, then it grew out and when I was about 14 I started getting chemical straightening treatments done.

    I had it in my head that my hair was ugly and something to be ashamed of. Kids would bully me at school about it all the time. So I flat ironed my hair every day and got chemical straightening treatments done every year for about eight years or so, until I finally made the decision to embrace my hair and go natural.

    So why does my journey and my struggle not seem important, because I'm white?

    The natural hair movement belongs to all women who are finally embracing their natural beauty. We, as women (and as human beings) should support each other and celebrate each and every person who chooses to accept who they are and not conform to ridiculous societal expectations of what we should or shouldn't look like.

    Excluding people from this celebration and sense of community because they are different to you is the complete OPPOSITE of what this is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be people coming together and accepting / celebrating . . . but all people are doing is saying 'nope, your hair isn't different enough'. How is that any better than the people who criticise natural hair?
    3B. Med porosity. Med thickness. Med density.

    LP: Shea Moisture (currently JBCO)
    Conditioner/CW: Jason Aloe Vera

    LI: Aunt Jackie's Curls & Coils Quench
    Refreshing: TRESemmé Naturals Aloe Vera & Avocado
    Gel: DevaCurl Ultra Defining Gel
    DC:
    Aunt Jackie's Soft & Sassy Super Duper Softening Conditioner
    Treatments: Coconut oil/Coconut milk

    UK curly. CG since Oct 2013.
    Growing my hair to WL when dry :thumright:
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