Year long Lurker and still lost.

GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
Hello everyone!

I've been lurking around Naturally Curly and Curl Talk for at least a year (maybe two or three), but I've never posted till now.

Even though I've been lurking the site for a long time I'm still lost as to how to care for my hair. I have so many issues with my hair it's not funny, but I can't seem to figure out which issue to tackle first. Do I tackle technique for trying to solve my flat roots, frizz, wonky curl pattern? Or do I tackle my hair properties?

There is so many components to take into consideration, and so much information on here that it is all overwhelming. :/
3a-3b with some 3c in the back
Medium-Coarse
Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

Testing products:
Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil

Comments

  • GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
    My hair properties should now be in my signature (if all went well).
    3a-3b with some 3c in the back
    Medium-Coarse
    Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
    Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
    Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

    Testing products:
    Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
    RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
    Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Galilea wrote: »
    My hair properties should now be in my signature (if all went well).
    welcome!

    Lots of us post on phones so can't see signatures.
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    Welcome! I am very happy that you decided to come here for help with your hair. :icon_smile:

    Thanks for listing the current products you use in your hair. I will need for you to share a bit more information on what your main concerns specifically are with your hair. First, are you not content with your current product regimen at all? Or are there some products that you do like, while there are others you would be interested to possibly switching over to something else instead? As, we can definitely help in providing you with product alternatives for you to try instead, to see if they work better for you.

    Or, do you need help with us providing you with both product recommendations as well as proper usage of the products that are recommended to you as well, so that you can get the type of well formed curls you desire.

    Please feel free to share as much as you can.
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!
  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I just wanted to welcome you as well. :) I found figuring out my hair's properties first to be helpful, as I could then start out with some products that were likely to give me success. Beyond that point there are tons of techniques you can experiment with to see which are best for styling your curls.
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
    Thank you for the Welcomes!

    Reservechick: There are a lot of concerns with my hair. I have low elasticity when my hair is wet, so any manipulation when wet makes my hair frizz which means no scrunching for clumps, no using a towel of any kind to blot excess water, even putting product in creates frizz. My hair is also frizzy when I get out of the shower (even when I haven't touched it), so before I'm able to do anything I start with frizz. Maybe that means my products aren't doing what I need them to do? I'm open to suggestions.
    Root Curl is nonexistent for me. My roots are pretty much flat to my head.
    I also get crazy shrinkage. My hair pulled out is blow bra strap length, but is shrinks right above the shoulders. At this point though, that's the least of my problems.

    I'm not sure how to properly apply products; there seems to be a million ways to do so, and my hair frizzes (even more than it already is) the moment I touch it. I'm also not sure in what order products should be applied and that also varies widely from one curly to another.

    I feel my problem is not know what techniques and products to use (or how to use them) to coax my hair to do what I want.

    I was happiest with my hair right around the time I decided to stop straightening my hair (something I had done for years). My hair was well defined and clumped, and I had good root curl. I had some heat damage going on, and I hadn't been kind to my hair, but it looked the best then. Go figure!

    Right now, I do not wear my hair down under any circumstances. It is ALWAYS in a ponytail braid, or in a braided bun because I can't stand to see the frizzy mess.

    I was going to include pictures, but I need to post more.
    3a-3b with some 3c in the back
    Medium-Coarse
    Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
    Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
    Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

    Testing products:
    Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
    RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
    Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    Galilea wrote: »
    Thank you for the Welcomes!

    Reservechick: There are a lot of concerns with my hair. I have low elasticity when my hair is wet, so any manipulation when wet makes my hair frizz which means no scrunching for clumps, no using a towel of any kind to blot excess water, even putting product in creates frizz. My hair is also frizzy when I get out of the shower (even when I haven't touched it), so before I'm able to do anything I start with frizz. Maybe that means my products aren't doing what I need them to do? I'm open to suggestions.
    Root Curl is nonexistent for me. My roots are pretty much flat to my head.
    I also get crazy shrinkage. My hair pulled out is blow bra strap length, but is shrinks right above the shoulders. At this point though, that's the least of my problems.

    I'm not sure how to properly apply products; there seems to be a million ways to do so, and my hair frizzes (even more than it already is) the moment I touch it. I'm also not sure in what order products should be applied and that also varies widely from one curly to another.

    I feel my problem is not know what techniques and products to use (or how to use them) to coax my hair to do what I want.

    I was happiest with my hair right around the time I decided to stop straightening my hair (something I had done for years). My hair was well defined and clumped, and I had good root curl. I had some heat damage going on, and I hadn't been kind to my hair, but it looked the best then. Go figure!

    Right now, I do not wear my hair down under any circumstances. It is ALWAYS in a ponytail braid, or in a braided bun because I can't stand to see the frizzy mess.

    I was going to include pictures, but I need to post more.

    I would recommend making an appointment with a stylist that is knowledgeable in the cutting and styling of curly hair. As, your hair may be out of shape and may be in need of a haircut, in order to bring it back into shape. You can speak to the stylist about your concerns, and he or she can work to come up with a curly style that you like. This is the first thing I feel that you need to resolve first.

    As far as the problem your experiencing with frizz that can be tamed through the right products. But first, I would recommend starting off with trial sizes, and if the products work, then moving up to buying the larger sizes. I would recommend getting the DevaCurl Trial+Travel Kit Plus. It includes 4-3oz. bottles of the following:

    DevaCurl NoPoo
    DevaCurl One Condition
    DevaCurl Light Defining Gel
    DevaCurl Set It Free Moisture Lock Spray
    Also Included: A Free Copy of Curly Girl: The Handbook

    Hope this helps!
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!
  • GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
    I have been going to a curly hair salon (Serendipity in Ann Arbor), but I'm not sure if I'm communicating my concerns to them properly.

    My hair is always really frizzy when I leave there (I go home, re-wash, and throw it up in a braid or bun right after). I've talked to them about cutting my hair into a layered bob, but I'm hesitant to get it cut while it's so frizzy and gross. I feel like the cut wont look good, or that when I finally do get my curls looking defined and clumped, the cut won't look the same as it should.

    All the suggestions they give (for root curl and clumping) just promote more frizz since my hair is so sensitive when wet. :/

    I tried the Deva line when I stopped straightening my hair 4 or 5 years ago, but I don't think it left an impression on me since I can't remember if I liked it or not. Maybe I'll try it again.
    3a-3b with some 3c in the back
    Medium-Coarse
    Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
    Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
    Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

    Testing products:
    Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
    RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
    Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    Galilea wrote: »
    I have been going to a curly hair salon (Serendipity in Ann Arbor), but I'm not sure if I'm communicating my concerns to them properly.

    My hair is always really frizzy when I leave there (I go home, re-wash, and throw it up in a braid or bun right after). I've talked to them about cutting my hair into a layered bob, but I'm hesitant to get it cut while it's so frizzy and gross. I feel like the cut wont look good, or that when I finally do get my curls looking defined and clumped, the cut won't look the same as it should.

    All the suggestions they give (for root curl and clumping) just promote more frizz since my hair is so sensitive when wet. :/

    I tried the Deva line when I stopped straightening my hair 4 or 5 years ago, but I don't think it left an impression on me since I can't remember if I liked it or not. Maybe I'll try it again.

    I would make an appointment with them soon. I want you let them know exactly what you are looking for, when it comes to your curls. I want for both you and the stylist to be on the same accord when it comes to what would be the best cut for your curls shape wise. Even if it means your having to look at pictures online or in magazines and bringing any that you like with you to the salon. As the right cut and shape to your curls, will allow for you to be able to wear your hair down with ease. It is the stylist's job to make sure that his or her client always leaves the salon happy. And, if there's ever a problem, you always have the right to speak up about it, so that the stylist can make things right.

    However, if things don't work out this next time, then I would recommend trying out another salon. As you may possibly get better results elsewhere, okay.
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,280Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Can you describe what you are doing in detail? Your technique? How much of what do you use?
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • LanoralovespinkLanoralovespink Posts: 13Registered Users
    Welcome lovely, I'm glad you finally posted. I'm new to this whole thing as well. I do think focusing on just the health of your hair is most important. Is there bad tangling, does it feel dry, is your scalp sensitive?
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I would start (as I did) by ordering a copy of Curly Girl, now Curly Girl: The Handbook (also available here), read it all the way through, and watch the videos when it arrives. If you're still confused about techniques, etc. that indicates you haven't done this yet, and it should clear up your confusion. If the text doesn't, the illustrations and videos should.

    Frizz when wet indicates buildup, though I don't see where it's coming from, or why it's still there. It's possible the hairdresser is the source, some people who (mistakenly) think they know CG use or recommend non-CG products. I'd do a silicone-free, sulfate cleanse just to make sure it gets gone.

    A real Deva cut should help your hair respond well. IME, every cut I had made a noticeable, positive difference when I was growing out my pre-CG hair. Once the last of my pre-CG hair was cut off, there was a huge change, but they all made a difference, all improved my hair, and definitely made the grow-out much easier. That said, not all Deva stylists are created equally. They all come to Deva styling with their own experiences and baggage, and some are much more open to the method than others. Reading the book will help sort them out, though it can be challenging if they've learned to talk the talk, but, well you know where this is going.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
    Reservechick: Okay, I'll make an appointment in the near future (I work two jobs and go to school, so finding time that works for me and the hair dresser is difficult).

    Chupie: Right now I kind of rake everything in. I've tried the 'prayer' method, but my hair is still frizzy and I feel like I'm not getting an even application (especially in the back where my hair is so thick).

    Lanoralovespink: Welcome! That's the funny thing. I don't have tangles, my hair doesn't feel dry; it's soft, and I don't think my scalp is sensitive. That's why this is hard; except for the frizz my hair feels nice, so it's hard to decide what it needs.

    Morgan_Adcock: I do think I'm going to get the Curly Girl Handbook the next time I'm near a bookstore. I have done a silicone free sulfate cleanse, so I'm also don't think I should have any buildup; the cleanser I have is for hard water as well.
    3a-3b with some 3c in the back
    Medium-Coarse
    Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
    Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
    Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

    Testing products:
    Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
    RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
    Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    Galilea wrote: »
    Reservechick: Okay, I'll make an appointment in the near future (I work two jobs and go to school, so finding time that works for me and the hair dresser is difficult). Whenever you are able to fit it in that's okay.

    Chupie: Right now I kind of rake everything in. I've tried the 'prayer' method, but my hair is still frizzy and I feel like I'm not getting an even application (especially in the back where my hair is so thick).



    Lanoralovespink: Welcome! That's the funny thing. I don't have tangles, my hair doesn't feel dry; it's soft, and I don't think my scalp is sensitive. That's why this is hard; except for the frizz my hair feels nice, so it's hard to decide what it needs.

    Morgan_Adcock: I do think I'm going to get the Curly Girl Handbook the next time I'm near a bookstore. I have done a silicone free sulfate cleanse, so I'm also don't think I should have any buildup; the cleanser I have is for hard water as well.



    The ladies here are trying there best to help you with solving your problem with dealing with your hair. Curlmart sells the Curly Girl Handbook at a very reasonable price. So, if you are interested in possibly buying it and having it for you to read and always be able to reflect upon for future use, I would invest in buying it whenever it is most feasible for you. Plus, Curlmart is always giving out discounts, so you have nothing to lose, but a whole lot to gain by getting this book.

    Personally, it seems like the products you have been using or have tried aren't providing sufficient results. And, your problems with frizz seems to continue no matter what, you have tried thus far. Myself along with the other ladies, that have provided posts are trying to do our best in finding a solution to your existing hair issues. I know that dealing with your hair at this time may be a bit frustrating for you. But, don't worry! As eventually a solution will be found. You just have to keep a positive attitude towards such, okay.
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!
  • GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
    I definitely appreciate all the replies, suggestions, and ideas.

    I went out and got the Diva trial pack, so we'll see how that goes. I'll also get the Curly Girl book as soon as I can.

    I'm going to be moving an hour away from where I live in about two months. Do you think I should go see my hairstylist before then? Or look on naturallycurly for a curly hairstylist in the new town I'm moving to?
    3a-3b with some 3c in the back
    Medium-Coarse
    Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
    Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
    Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

    Testing products:
    Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
    RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
    Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    Galilea wrote: »
    I definitely appreciate all the replies, suggestions, and ideas.

    I went out and got the Diva trial pack, so we'll see how that goes. I'll also get the Curly Girl book as soon as I can.

    I'm going to be moving an hour away from where I live in about two months. Do you think I should go see my hairstylist before then? Or look on naturallycurly for a curly hairstylist in the new town I'm moving to?

    If your schedule permits you to be able to see your hairstylist soon, then by all means I recommending going to see him/her. If your schedule is too busy for you to make an appointment before you move, then, you can always book an appointment with a salon in or near the new town, you'll be living in after you move.

    Also, if you ordered the DevaCurl Trial +Travel Kit Plus, then the Curly Girl Handbook comes free with it. That is what you ordered correct? If so, then you should be all set. Good luck!:smile:
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    Have you tried clarifying your hair? To me, it sounds like good ol' buildup, but I'm not sure what products you use. Certain deva products built up on me something awful. I did like the One Condition a lot though.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
    sixelamy wrote: »
    Have you tried clarifying your hair? To me, it sounds like good ol' buildup, but I'm not sure what products you use. Certain deva products built up on me something awful. I did like the One Condition a lot though.

    I thought it might be buildup too, so I have clarified. I don't think the products I was using would cause buildup, and I just started using the Deva products. I think I might not be getting enough moisture in my hair, but I tired the Shea Moisture Deep Conditioning Masque (with a heat cap), and didn't notice a difference. Not sure what to think. Maybe my hair doesn't like shea butter?
    3a-3b with some 3c in the back
    Medium-Coarse
    Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
    Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
    Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

    Testing products:
    Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
    RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
    Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    Galilea wrote: »
    sixelamy wrote: »
    Have you tried clarifying your hair? To me, it sounds like good ol' buildup, but I'm not sure what products you use. Certain deva products built up on me something awful. I did like the One Condition a lot though.

    I thought it might be buildup too, so I have clarified. I don't think the products I was using would cause buildup, and I just started using the Deva products. I think I might not be getting enough moisture in my hair, but I tired the Shea Moisture Deep Conditioning Masque (with a heat cap), and didn't notice a difference. Not sure what to think. Maybe my hair doesn't like shea butter?

    The Shea Moisture Deep Treatment Masque is one of those products, that work well for some. However, there are others that didn't end up liking it, because they felt it wasn't really moisturizing to their hair at all. It does say that you can add olive oil to this product for greater moisture. However, it is up to you whether you'd like to try it again with olive oil added to it. As you totally don't have to use the product again, if it is not up to your liking.

    You mentioned that you just started using the DevaCurl products. How is that going thus far?

    Unless your hair always responds bad, whenever you use a product that has Shea butter in it, then I would say that Shea butter may not agree with your hair and that you should avoid using products with that ingredient in it. However, I don't know your history with using products that have Shea butter in them. Which us why, I cannot say "yes" or "no" in regards to whether your hair likes Shea butter or not.

    Before washing your hair, you can always do a pre poo treatment using coconut oil, and then let it sit in your hair for 30 minutes to 1 hour or possibly longer based on your schedule. You would clip your hair up, and then you apply a plastic conditioning cap over your head and then and apply your heating cap over your head. Or, you can skip the heating cap, and just let your natural body heat warm up the oil in your hair instead. The choice us up to you as to which method you choose to use. As, you cannot go wrong with either.
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!
  • curlicious13curlicious13 Posts: 1,632Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Be cafe I using coconut oil. If you are sensitive, coconut oil can give you headaches and migraines. Olive oil works well as a pre poo too.
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    Be cafe I using coconut oil. If you are sensitive, coconut oil can give you headaches and migraines. Olive oil works well as a pre poo too.

    Great that you decided to mention that! Nice showing of care:toothy4:
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    Galilea wrote: »
    sixelamy wrote: »
    Have you tried clarifying your hair? To me, it sounds like good ol' buildup, but I'm not sure what products you use. Certain deva products built up on me something awful. I did like the One Condition a lot though.

    I thought it might be buildup too, so I have clarified. I don't think the products I was using would cause buildup, and I just started using the Deva products. I think I might not be getting enough moisture in my hair, but I tired the Shea Moisture Deep Conditioning Masque (with a heat cap), and didn't notice a difference. Not sure what to think. Maybe my hair doesn't like shea butter?

    Shea Moisture products can definitely build up. My hair turned into a frizzy mess when I was using their shampoo and conditioner. I clarified and switched out products and my hair has been great since! You just have to figure out what ingredients cause problems for you. Just make sure there's fatty alcohols in whatever conditioner you choose... I'm not sure the masque has those... I could be wrong though. Also keep in mind a lot of curlies on here have problems with polyquats which Deva products are loaded with. You may not have any issues, and I hope you don't. They are good products, just have to have the right head of hair for them.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
    I'm not sure how I feel about the Deva products. I got them on Sunday and washed with the No-poo, used the conditioner, then the gel, and the spray.

    My hair still looked the same (clumped but frizzy), but I don't expect anything to make an instantaneous change (right?). I have noticed that my hair does feel... squeeky(?) after using the products for a few days. My hair felt normal when I rinsed it with water and reapplied some conditioner (as a LI), gel, and spray on Tuesday. But I've noticed today that when I rinsed it with water my hair feels squeaky and not soft like it normally does. Maybe that's build up? Perhaps the polyquats?

    There are lots of ingredients in most products we use, how do you guys narrow down which ones might be a problem for your hair?
    3a-3b with some 3c in the back
    Medium-Coarse
    Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
    Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
    Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

    Testing products:
    Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
    RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
    Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil
  • GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
    There pictures are of a few times when I was happiest with my hair.

    The first one is right when I decided to stop straightening my hair. It's funny, because at that time I had a lot of heat damage to my hair (hence the straightened bangs; they wouldn't curl), yet my hair was clumped, defined, and relatively frizz free. I don't remember what products I was using at that time. :/

    The second two pictures are a while --maybe a year or two-- after I stopped straightening my hair (sorry the pictures don't show my hair very well). My hair was less frizzy then and the roots were curlier, but I was finger curling my hair as well to smooth the frizz which is something I can't do now as my hair is much longer, and that would be way too labor intensive.

    I was using Original Moxie at that time. I was using the Intense Quench deep conditioner (as a RO), and the shape Shifter Curl Creme. I do remember that my hair did not frizz with these products. Those two pictures were taken in the Bahamas; it was hot and rained pretty heavily, and there was no frizz (I was really impressed). That was two years ago, so I'm not sure if the ingredients are the same as they were back then.

    I stopped using the Moxie products because they're pricy. :/
    3a-3b with some 3c in the back
    Medium-Coarse
    Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
    Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
    Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

    Testing products:
    Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
    RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
    Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    Galilea wrote: »
    There pictures are of a few times when I was happiest with my hair.

    The first one is right when I decided to stop straightening my hair. It's funny, because at that time I had a lot of heat damage to my hair (hence the straightened bangs; they wouldn't curl), yet my hair was clumped, defined, and relatively frizz free. I don't remember what products I was using at that time. :/

    The second two pictures are a while --maybe a year or two-- after I stopped straightening my hair (sorry the pictures don't show my hair very well). My hair was less frizzy then and the roots were curlier, but I was finger curling my hair as well to smooth the frizz which is something I can't do now as my hair is much longer, and that would be way too labor intensive.

    I was using Original Moxie at that time. I was using the Intense Quench deep conditioner (as a RO), and the shape Shifter Curl Creme. I do remember that my hair did not frizz with these products. Those two pictures were taken in the Bahamas; it was hot and rained pretty heavily, and there was no frizz (I was really impressed). That was two years ago, so I'm not sure if the ingredients are the same as they were back then.

    I stopped using the Moxie products because they're pricy. :/

    Thanks for providing pictures of your hair. As i appreciate it. You hair actually looks very nice in all pictures provided.You said that you had great resuults using the Original Moxie products mentioned. But, because they are pricey, that is why you stopped using them, which I can totally understand.

    From the feedback provided in regards to the Deva products you tried, it appears that this line may not be the best for your curls. When you mentioned about you hair feeling squeaky after using the products for a few days, your hair is letting you know that it is not getting enough moisture and is becoming dried out. Deva products work for some, whike for others they can really dry one's hair out. So, the best thing woukd be to switch over to sonething else. I do not use plain water from my sink or shower to re-wet my hair throughout the week at all. I live in a place that has very bad water. So it only touches my hair when it is time to be cleansed, and that is only once a week. I am not sure about your water quality, you may very well have bad water too. Do you actually know if you have bad water or not?

    However, even with bad water, if a product does not work for my hair, my hair will definitely let me know sure enough. And, if a product works for my hair, my hair will quickly let me know. Which is why, i always recommend that one pay close attention to how their hair reacts to the products that are being used on it. Also, it is your hair that will let you know what ingredients it likes best and which ones it likes the worst. Which is why, one of the best things that one can do is to keep a hair journal, keeping track of which products, methods, or anything else hair related that you try and how well or not they work for your hair.

    As one alternative, I would recommend trying the Edens Body Works Coconut Shea line. They have a great array of products within the line, incuding a cleansing conditioner, leave in, two curl creams (curly pudding and curl defining creme, and alot more.The curl defining creme provides medium hold and offers more curl defining, and frizz control than the pudding, so i would recomend your trying that. The line can easily be found at Walmart, Sally's, etc. Please let me know if you have tried this line or not?


    Or, you can simply seek to just start using the Original Moxie Shape Shifter Creme again which you can get from Curlmart, the Original Moxie website, or from retailers that carry the line. And, just use cheaper products for the rest of your regimen. In addition to Edens Body Works, there are other economical lines that you can pick to use products to cowash or shampoo (sulfate free ones of course) and condition your hair with. Such other lines are Curls (their shampoo and conditioner are CG friendly), As I Am (you are already familiar with their co wash,plus they do offer a deep conditioner within their line) and Cantu (they now offer a sulfate free shampoo and conditioner for naturals). Also, you do have the option of using the Giovanni Deeper Moisture Conditioner as a conditioner on your curls again(if you would like), since you are already familiar with it. And, if you need a leave in to go with the shape shifter creme, you can try the one from the Edens Body Works Coconut Shea line, or the As I Am Leave In, or even possibly Kinky-Curly Knot Today.
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!
  • GalileaGalilea Posts: 48Registered Users
    Hm.. I'm not sure if I have bad water. Our water is city water so it's drinkable. It is hard water, so I'm not sure if that would be considered good or bad. What do you use to re-wet your hair?

    I'm going to wash my hair tonight and I can definitely tell my hair has a very product feel, so I agree that the Deva products don't work for me. I'll start keeping a journal of what works and what doesn't.

    I have tried the Eden BodyWorks Coconut Shea leave in conditioner, and I don't think it was moisturizing enough. It didn't really give me much slip, and I don't think my hair felt hydrated when I used it. Maybe the Jojoba Manoi one could be better? So far the leave-in is all I've tried from that line; I haven't tried anything else since the leave-in didn't seem to do much.

    I think I did use the Curls line when I first decided to go natural, but I don't remember if I liked it or not. I do have Kinky Curly's Knot Today, but I don't feel it's moisturizing enough since it's just a detangler (I know some people love it as a leave in, but I don't think it's enough for my coarse hair).

    I think I will get Original Moxie's Shape Shifter again and see if it is still as good as I remember. I bought the Tresemme Naturals conditioner everyone seems to like so much, so we'll see how that works. I don't really have a sulfate free shampoo, but I'm guessing I'll need to do a sulfate cleanse anyway to get the Deva buildup out of my hair.

    I'm attaching a picture of what my hair looked like a few months ago when I sent in my hair analysis. I have had my hair evened out since then (I didn't like how it was short in the front and long in the back). I'll also include a picture of what it looks like tonight after it's been washed.

    I have an appointment at the hair salon for Tuesday morning. I'm still not really sure what I should tell them to get a good shape, but I'll suggest some of the things that was mentioned in the 'What to tell my Stylist' thread.
    3a-3b with some 3c in the back
    Medium-Coarse
    Normal elasticity when dry. Low elasticity when wet.
    Low porosity at roots, normal at mid-shaft, porous at roots.
    Acid sensitive and swells rapidly in basic solutions.

    Testing products:
    Shampoo: Carol's Daughter Black Vanilla Sulfate Free Shampoo.
    RO/leave in conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
    Deep Conditioner: TGIN Honey Hair Masque
    Gel: Flaxseed gel with a few drops of Vitamin E oil
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    @Galilea if you don't have soft water use distilled water to rewet your hair.

    Also city water like country water can be hard or soft it depends on where the water originates and what minerals have a chance to dissolve in the water before it's piped to you.
  • ReservechicReservechic Posts: 798Registered Users
    Galilea wrote: »
    Hm.. I'm not sure if I have bad water. Our water is city water so it's drinkable. It is hard water, so I'm not sure if that would be considered good or bad. What do you use to re-wet your hair?

    I'm going to wash my hair tonight and I can definitely tell my hair has a very product feel, so I agree that the Deva products don't work for me. I'll start keeping a journal of what works and what doesn't.

    I have tried the Eden BodyWorks Coconut Shea leave in conditioner, and I don't think it was moisturizing enough. It didn't really give me much slip, and I don't think my hair felt hydrated when I used it. Maybe the Jojoba Manoi one could be better? So far the leave-in is all I've tried from that line; I haven't tried anything else since the leave-in didn't seem to do much.

    I think I did use the Curls line when I first decided to go natural, but I don't remember if I liked it or not. I do have Kinky Curly's Knot Today, but I don't feel it's moisturizing enough since it's just a detangler (I know some people love it as a leave in, but I don't think it's enough for my coarse hair).

    I think I will get Original Moxie's Shape Shifter again and see if it is still as good as I remember. I bought the Tresemme Naturals conditioner everyone seems to like so much, so we'll see how that works. I don't really have a sulfate free shampoo, but I'm guessing I'll need to do a sulfate cleanse anyway to get the Deva buildup out of my hair.

    I'm attaching a picture of what my hair looked like a few months ago when I sent in my hair analysis. I have had my hair evened out since then (I didn't like how it was short in the front and long in the back). I'll also include a picture of what it looks like tonight after it's been washed.

    I have an appointment at the hair salon for Tuesday morning. I'm still not really sure what I should tell them to get a good shape, but I'll suggest some of the things that was mentioned in the 'What to tell my Stylist' thread.

    I definitely think thst going back to the Shape Shifter Creme would be best for your curls. As, you have gone through alot of products, and they really haven't been successful for you. Many people have used Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture Conditioner over the years as a cowash, with some using it as a leave in too (which many have been using to co wash with, as well as some also using it as a leave in too). I sincerely hope that this conditioner works out well for you. Oh, and i have tried and actually do continue to use the Edens Body Works Jojoba Monoi Conditioner. It works very well for my curls. You are welcome to try it, and see how it works for your hair.

    Since the DevaCurl products are all made to be CG friendly products, you don't need to wash your hair with a sulfate free shampoo to remove them from your hair,:-) The sulfate cleanse is whst should have come before you started the Curly Girl Method. Thereafter, you just simply continue on with using products that are CG friendly. These products will be easily to wash out and even if you do experience any level of buildup with any of the products, your next cleansing should remove all of such. Upon your next hair cleansing at home, you can simply choose to either co wash your hair, using a cleansing conditioner or light conditioner to do so, and you can chose to follow this up with a thicker, richer conditioner to do a separate conditioning of your hair as well. Or, you can simply opt to use a sulfate free shampoo to cleanse and then follow that up with conditioner. The choice is up to you. You cannot go wrong with either you choose.

    I am not sure if you have hard water or not. So, i am not going to go to far with that. As, you can always go to a hardware store and look for a home testing kit that you can use to check the ph level of the water within your home. Every place i have lived, there has been hard water. But, i never really experienced anything serious from it, so i just lived with it. The only water that is filtered is the drinking water within my home only. My main emphasis is put on whether a product works for my hair or not. And, my hair lets me know that practically right away. I only wash my hair once a week, due to it being naturally very dry, and my hair cannot take being washed anymore than that. The only way that i may happen to wash my hair a second time throughout the week, is if i am going to a special event/occasion. I do not need to re-wet my hair, as i just re-apply a bit more styling product to my hair and that is all. I mainly pick styling products that can be used on both wet and dry hair, which eliminates the need for me to re-wet my curls daily. Plus, i also will sometimes use my Q-Redew for refreshing my curls with after having slept on them (before applying styling product to my curls), and i do own curl refresher sprays that i sometimes use as well.



    I certainly do hope that all goes well with your visit to the hair salon on Tuesday. Please be sure to share details about how things go, okay. And, be sure to ask the stylists about the products that she uses in your hair. And, for her /him to explain the styling technique that he/she uses on your curls as well. As, such info would be very important for you to know from your stylist.
    Diagnosed with Scalp Eczema 6/2015
    (Don't hair type/loose curl pattern/fine texture/low density/high porosity

    Current Regimen (Ayurvedic Based):
    Cleansers- Bobeam Shampoo Bars
    Stylers-Rotate between Camille Rose Naturals Almond Jai Twisting Butter and Camille Rose Naturals Aloe Whipped Butter Gel

    I only wear my hair in wash n gos or buns. Also,
    I do not use conditioner on my hair on a weekly basis. And, my hair is A ok with that!

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