My Waves and Curls Disappeared!

russianprncssrussianprncss Posts: 450Registered Users Curl Neophyte
I've been washing my hair quite a bit with sulfate shampoos (I know, bad deal for a CG) and last time I washed it, it dried practically straight!

It was that soft, too, when I've straightened it in the past. No slip or grip. I did a deep conditioner and used some curl enhancing smoothie but literally, so straight.

What did I do wrong? Will sulfate shampoos do that? Is it possible to over clean your hair or over condition it or something? I miss my curls and also am just curious as to how this could've happened!
2C/3A; very, very thick fine to medium hair; low porosity.

Current Products:
Co-Wash: As I Am Cleansing Co-Wash
Conditioner: Shea Moisture Tahitian Masque, Aubrey Organics GPB, Shea Moisture
Leave-In: Coffee Coco Curl Creme, Coffee Coco Curl Creme Lite
Stylers: Mop Top Curl Custard, Shea Moisture Curl Custard[/FONT]

"Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair." -Khalil Gibran

Comments

  • BelleBohemienneBelleBohemienne Posts: 375Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It is possible to have over conditioned hair. Sometimes, the ingredients can accumulate in your hair and weigh it down. Try this: cleanse your hair with water and baking soda then use ACV as a rinse out. Use an old tee shirt or MF towel to get the water out then air dry. If you do this before bed, braid your hair to keep it protected during the night. If possible, try to go a couple of days without washing and on wash day try friction and water to wash the scalp and applying a CG friendly conditioner to the loose hair. Maybe this will help bring your waves back.
    ~Belle Bohemienne

    "If you are depressed you are living in the past. If you are anxious you are living in the future. If you are at peace you are living in the present." -Lao Tzu
  • rbbrbb Posts: 4,355Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    sulfates are very drying. curls need moisture.
    maybe get away from sulfates, low poo or cowash, and use a moisturizing daily conditioner. if it was dehydrated, it should recover in a week or so and keep getting better.

    3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity :-(
    washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
    leave in:curl junkie conditioners and treatments as leave in
    styling: curl junkie 
    sealants - jane carter nourish & shine
  • lolo918lolo918 Posts: 729Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Ok, I'm glad that I had to ask a question to google, lols and came to my desktop. I see in your properties that you are fine haired and low porosity- I have the same properties with a tighter curl type. I know that it might not always be the same for all people with similar properties, but you may want to consider a different styler. When I used the smoothie in the past I got more frizz and less curl- it was just too heavy and I needed to shampoo more often just to keep my hair un-gunked feeling.

    So when I read your post on my phone my first questions were how long have you been using the smoothie, and did you start to use the sulfate poo's after you had started using the smoothie? They do contain esters which are waxes- they can build up and coat the hair. So can shea butter which I believe is the second ingredient in the smoothie. If I use straight shea butter to slick my wet hair back for instance, it will lay down flat for a long while like I used gel to smooth it I just found out. After that, it just leaves shiny, slightly wavy but very smooth to the touch- my headband slid right on off my hair like it did when I relaxed my hair straight. Not cool.

    Also with fine hair have you ventured into protein applications, or has that been disastrous? The smoothie does have some proteins, though again I think they are way down in the ingredients after all the oils. If I remember correctly it's got shea butter, coconut oil, and mango butter as the first ingredients after water. Protein would also help if you are over conditioned to help move the moisture/protein balance back to normal.

    RBB is right in that if it's a dryness issue that using a moisture rich conditioner in will fix it. The conditioners you could look for should have good amounts of humectants (like glycerin, sugars, or panthenol) and emollients possibly other than oils (like fatty alcohols, even silicones, or even proteins). This was a great article that I found when I was wondering about the difference or how to tell: Hair Moisturizer vs. Emollients


    Good luck, and I hope you can find out what is going wrong!
    3C/4A, fine texture, low-medium density, and low porosity
    CG since November 2013.

    Pre-Poo: infrequent now, Coconut Oil overnight
    Shampoo: Curls unleashed/for occasional sulfate wash when needed, everlasting sunshine.
    Conditioner: Suave Naturals Everlasting Sunshine and GVP's conditioning balm.
    Styler: iagirl's flaxseed curl cream or gelatin gel/conditioner mix. <3
    PT: iagirl's gelatin treatment 3-4 times a month, with conditioner/honey/avj
  • CurliniCurlini Posts: 258Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I agree with rbb and Lolo. You need to find a way to balance moisture and protein.
    Are you using gel? Scrunching gel into your damp hair and diffusing or letting it air dry might help too.
    Have you figured out your hair's properties? Texture, porosity, elasticity. Once you figure these out it's easier to choose products.
    Don't despair! You'll find all the answers here!
    Medium Texture/Normal Porosity
    Conditioners: Curl Junkie conditioners, Elucence moisture balancing, Darcy's pumpkin seed, Mop Top Daily
    Gels: CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ Curl Queen, UFDCM, Mop Top Curly Custard, KCCC (wish it didn't take so long to dry!), CJ Aloe Fix Lite
    Weekly PT (CJ Repair Me) & DT
    Icequeen method
    CG since Aug. 08, still a lot to learn

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • russianprncssrussianprncss Posts: 450Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    You ladies are the best! I'm pretty sure it's the sulfate shampoos (any good recommendations for sulfate free shampoos when I have to cleanse)?

    I used a moisturizing conditioner in the shower this morning and then scrunched gel in. Poof! They've returned.

    However, I got some Aubrey Organics GPB to try as a rinse out protein treatment as well as Shea Moisture's new light protein treatment, their smoothing masque as a deep conditioner, so we'll see how that goes!
    2C/3A; very, very thick fine to medium hair; low porosity.

    Current Products:
    Co-Wash: As I Am Cleansing Co-Wash
    Conditioner: Shea Moisture Tahitian Masque, Aubrey Organics GPB, Shea Moisture
    Leave-In: Coffee Coco Curl Creme, Coffee Coco Curl Creme Lite
    Stylers: Mop Top Curl Custard, Shea Moisture Curl Custard[/FONT]

    "Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair." -Khalil Gibran
  • SassifrassSassifrass Posts: 49Registered Users
    Just wanted to pop in and say that my 3a curls will look decidedly 2a if I go too long between protein treatments. I'm assuming that means eventually my hair may would appear straight. I suppose maybe with how long it is that if it doesn't have protein it just doesn't have the strength to not be pulled straighter? Who knows.

    I agree with whoever suggested the protein treatment. And yes, ditch the sulfates!

    Back when I started CH I honestly didn't think I'd ever be able to cleanse my hair without sulfates without being a grease ball. Now low-pooing or cowashing I can usually get 4 solid days between cleansing before my hair starts looking a little greasy on day 5.
    3a, fine, low/medium density, high porosity. Protein loving.

    Lo poo: Desert Essence Coconut Shampoo.
    RO: DevaCurl One Condition
    LI: DevaCurl One Condition
    Styler: DevaCurl Ultra Defining Gel
    PT: IAgirl's Gelatin PT
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Glad the matter didn't "straighten out" for you! ;) I seem to have a similar hair type to you… thin, low porosity (I think), easily loosing curl and getting stretched out/dry with sulfates. Did you get around to trying the protein treatment yet? Gelatin PT and also, a more diluted gelatin recipe for hair gel after made all the difference in my curls. If it worked for me maybe it will work for you too.

    Edit: per your request for sulfate free shampoo…. I just used borax today with pretty good results (like BS, must be followed with citric acid rinse or ACV). It's only about $5 for a box that will last me years. If you want to be free of surfactants completely (I find them all to be drying to my hair) there aren't many store bought options. Some shampoos (*not* surfactant free) that people here have mentioned include Jessicurl (though some ppl found mag sulfate drying over time, others had no problem) and deva lo or no poo (varying degrees of success reported with those, everyone's different). Before ditching surfactants for good I used miessence shampoo. I thought it was decent for a surfactant shampoo, not as drying as sulfates or cocobetaine. Lauryl glucoside and Decyl polyglucose (or something like that) seem to be some of the more gentle surfactants. You can also check out Aubrey Organics shampoos or John Masters. All of these use surfactants that are on the milder side I believe.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • russianprncssrussianprncss Posts: 450Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I actually went out and bought Aubrey Organics GPB and used it this morning in the shower. I followed up with a replenishing conditioner from the same brand and then a detangler (that was recommended by some curlies due to the moisture loss from protein treatments). My curls were popping!

    Some of my ringlets came back and I threw some KCCC on and got a ton of compliments at work about how good my hair looked!

    I guess what I'm wondering is how often should I do a protein treatment? Also is GPB better done as 1-2 minute RO or as a DT? I got Shea Moisture's Smoothing Masque that has some light protein in it too that I was going to do once a week... Just don't know how often to do them.

    My hair seemed to be less frizzy out of the shower after the protein treatment, as well. Interesting because for the longest time I avoided protein like the plague because my hair reacted badly to something w/ wheat protein (though now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure it was a sulfate shampoo).

    Thanks for all the tips!
    2C/3A; very, very thick fine to medium hair; low porosity.

    Current Products:
    Co-Wash: As I Am Cleansing Co-Wash
    Conditioner: Shea Moisture Tahitian Masque, Aubrey Organics GPB, Shea Moisture
    Leave-In: Coffee Coco Curl Creme, Coffee Coco Curl Creme Lite
    Stylers: Mop Top Curl Custard, Shea Moisture Curl Custard[/FONT]

    "Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair." -Khalil Gibran
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Nice. Glad you had good results. I've heard good things about GPB but my local health store doesn't sell it. As for whether to do a DT or RO, not sure. It's designed for RO. I don't think it would cause you any harm to try DT. I looked at the ingredients and I know if I did that it would grease up my hair and I'd need a heavy duty shampoo afterwards. But if you're using their shampoo (which has a surfactant) it shouldn't be an issue for you. I did a DT with mineral fusion conditioner, which is designed as a RO (more for the protein effects). I didn't notice the difference like I do with gelatin. I'm curious to try AO sea algae, which is designed for DT. Seaweeds seem to do well in hair and I've seen a lot of good reviews for it.

    As for how often for PT, it's individual. If your hair's as baby fine as mine, you could probably do a PT every day. You'll know you reached a limit if you see no additional improvement/get brittle hair. Likewise, if your curls get limp, probably time for another one.

    Edit: and now you have me curious to try SM smoothing mask.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • russianprncssrussianprncss Posts: 450Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    That's good to know! I'm gonna shoot for once a week with the GPB and see how that goes. I always dive in too deep and then get kinda messed up. I am DT'ing with the Smoothing masque this weekend so will let you know how that turns out!
    2C/3A; very, very thick fine to medium hair; low porosity.

    Current Products:
    Co-Wash: As I Am Cleansing Co-Wash
    Conditioner: Shea Moisture Tahitian Masque, Aubrey Organics GPB, Shea Moisture
    Leave-In: Coffee Coco Curl Creme, Coffee Coco Curl Creme Lite
    Stylers: Mop Top Curl Custard, Shea Moisture Curl Custard[/FONT]

    "Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair." -Khalil Gibran
  • naomilenanaomilena Posts: 47Registered Users
    When I went CG, I saw the biggest difference from doing overnight coconut oil pre-poo. It really helped my waves recover from all the abuse!

    However, not everybody does well with coconut oil. If you're low on protein, the coconut oil should also help you retain more protein.
  • russianprncssrussianprncss Posts: 450Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    @naturecat The Smoothing Masque was SO nice! Just the right mix of protein and moisture. Not too heavy. And it smells like Hawaii. My hair LOVED it. I literally had no frizz all day!
    2C/3A; very, very thick fine to medium hair; low porosity.

    Current Products:
    Co-Wash: As I Am Cleansing Co-Wash
    Conditioner: Shea Moisture Tahitian Masque, Aubrey Organics GPB, Shea Moisture
    Leave-In: Coffee Coco Curl Creme, Coffee Coco Curl Creme Lite
    Stylers: Mop Top Curl Custard, Shea Moisture Curl Custard[/FONT]

    "Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair." -Khalil Gibran
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Posts: 19Registered Users
    Did you leave in your conditioner?

    If I do leave-in, my hair turns straight.
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    naomilena wrote: »
    When I went CG, I saw the biggest difference from doing overnight coconut oil pre-poo. It really helped my waves recover from all the abuse!

    However, not everybody does well with coconut oil. If you're low on protein, the coconut oil should also help you retain more protein.

    Oh my goodness, I did an coconut oil pre poo tonight (just one hour). Even with my low porosity hair, it gave me improved elasticity, strength, and curl. I'm going to do this whenever I have the time! Overnight would be too messy/greasy and I'd worry about staining my pillowcase, methinks. But I definitely want to try a longer pre poo this weekend. My hair was craving protein and having difficulty holding onto it; it's clear that coconut oil is the key! Plus it smoothed my frizzies down. Thanks so much for the rec!

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    @naturecat The Smoothing Masque was SO nice! Just the right mix of protein and moisture. Not too heavy. And it smells like Hawaii. My hair LOVED it. I literally had no frizz all day!

    If you don't mind my asking, what store did you find the SM mask in? I've tried a few that carried SM, but none had that product. Thanks for your review. Frizz is huge for me, so looking forward to trying this!

    Edit: I might try their anti breakage masque. The protein is higher up in the ingredients list. And also their thickening moisture mist, if only I could find it. I wonder if Sally's or Ulta might have it.

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • russianprncssrussianprncss Posts: 450Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I got mine at Target for $12.99. If you try the Anti-Breakage masque let me know how that goes. I was thinking about trying the RO for the Smoothing Line as well.
    2C/3A; very, very thick fine to medium hair; low porosity.

    Current Products:
    Co-Wash: As I Am Cleansing Co-Wash
    Conditioner: Shea Moisture Tahitian Masque, Aubrey Organics GPB, Shea Moisture
    Leave-In: Coffee Coco Curl Creme, Coffee Coco Curl Creme Lite
    Stylers: Mop Top Curl Custard, Shea Moisture Curl Custard[/FONT]

    "Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair." -Khalil Gibran
  • naturecatnaturecat Posts: 1,986Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Thanks. I think it must be luck of the draw. The Target I went to didn't carry it. I'll try another Target or pharmacy soon, and I'll let you know what I think if I'm lucky enough to find it!

    3A/f/i
    Super baby fine hair, low porosity
    Shampoos: SM Fruit Fusion (mostly), Avalon lemon (to clarify). Occasional aloe vera and glycerin to wash.
    Stylers: Intelligent Nutrients Perfect Hold Hairspray
    Treatments: Catnip tea, IA girl's PT, Fermented Rice Water, Catnip Tea, Amla tea, Irish Moss, SS PT
  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    In my local Target they lump Shea Moisture in with the "ethnic hair care" rather than the the normal shampoo and conditioner. And of course in the CVS it's the opposite.

    However I noticed that finding CG friendly things in general was a lot more difficult in Pennsylvania than where I am now, possibly because most of the stores up north don't *have* an ethnic section. >.<
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel

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