restarting cowash..

geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
I have 2c/3a thin, fine, colored, low porosity hair.

Been doing a loose, low-maintenance interpretation of CG for a few years now, (using Suave Naturals, Wen, the Sally "hairone" version, As I Am cleansing conditioner, etc. every other day or so) but about once a week, I get bogged down in oiliness and scalp gunk and do a cheat day with regular megadetergent shampoo.

After some further reading, it looks like I could use extra protein. probably going to pick up some v05 kiwi lime for a cheap experiment. any other suggestions for cowashing an oily mop?
2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel

Comments

  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    Did you read the "CG" book, or at least the introduction to it posted here? I'm telling you this because in the book she recommends "washing" only once a week to 10 days, so my first thought is that 1) you're co-washing too often and 2) thus over-stimulating your scalp AND over-conditioning your hair...

    My own scalp has never been dry, especially during the summer when my oil production steps up, but in the beginning I never co-washed more than once a week. Because I started using a satin bonnet to sleep at night I was able to do 2nd and even 3rd day hair, only needing to refresh my curls the next day (and I didn't even use gel back in those days). In between co-washing I'd just give my hair a very thorough water rinse (with scalp massage) and reapply CO (a RO that I used as a LI).

    These days I monitor how much CO I need by how easily (or not) my hair detangles once I'm under the shower. If it detangles very easily with just my fingers I will do a "water wash" and then use my RO as my LI, some days not all over my head, just on the canopy (top layer) and ends. So try pulling back from co-washing so often, sometimes "less is more"...
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    hm. I did read the intro in the sticky, but my hair always seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

    I have been washing so often *because* of extreme oil buildup. I had tried limiting it to water washes, and it brings my curl "back to life" after sleeping on it, but the roots tend to stay pretty unpleasant. (i should also add that this is without the use of any product.. I have been staying as wash-and-go as humanly possible; i am not sure whether that adds to or contraindicates the problem!)

    It's been a while since i've properly experimented, though, so spacing out wash days some more is definitely on the table. thanks for the insight!
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    It can take a few weeks for the scalp to normalize after not using shampoo... but since you've also been using it periodically idk... It may very well be that you'll have to stay on "modified CG", using shampoo to wash and CO in between, there's really nothing wrong with that if it gives you the desired results. But do take into account that for wavies who need to use shampoo it's advised to cover the hair with CO - unless your hair is oily too. And I advise that you dilute your shampoo, it's not only a more effective use to use it but a little less irritating to both scalp and hair.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    this morning in the bathtub I realized that the time I was spending on my hair (or lack thereof really) had been making a lot of difference... stepping out of the bathroom with tendrils rather than a rat's nest this morning is already looking like a step in the right direction!

    I used suave naturals coconut as the CO, and some As I Am as an RO, because it was feeling a little crispy.. the experiments continue. :)
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    When you water wash, you should do at least as thorough a scalp massage as when you co-wash, which should be much more thorough than most people are used to doing with shampoo.

    Also, I'd recommend trying VO5 Kiwi-Lime Conditioner for your co-wash. It seems to be the most cleansing conditioner out there, even though it isn't marketed as such, and you can probably find it in a dollar store for less than $1.

    I had extremely high scalp oil production when I started CG. As a nurse, I always wanted to wash my hair after work in order to remove germs and goodness only knows what else. Then, after I'd slept on it, it would be doing wonky curly hair tricks, and refuse to reactivate with dampening, thanks to all the cones, so I'd wash it again most mornings (and wish I had on the mornings that I hadn't). Fortunately reading Curly Girl made me realize what was going on, and each time that I low-pooed, after rinsing, I would follow that with a co-wash (as the repeat stage in shampoo's usual instructions to lather, rinse, and repeat). I was shocked how quickly the oiliness settled down, and was able to just co-wash more and more frequently. Since switching to VO5 Kiwi-Lime, I rarely have a clue how long it's been since my last low-poo because it's such an infrequent occurrence.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    found some kiwi lime squeeze at the dollar tree! waiting to try it for the next few days is gonna drive me crazy, but I'm going to try to be good. :)
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel
  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    so I cowashed today with the V05. My hair seemed to drink it up... lol. Tempted to try Cure Care, because if I'm going to use it in such volume, it's slightly cheaper. Followed it up with AIA as RO again. The improvement in curl is amazing to me already. Tried putting some AIA curling jelee on it while wet... I don't know if i did it right... been afraid to SOTC because the last time I tried, it ended up looking relaxed, dirty, and a right mess. I took a day 1 picture for ongoing comparison.

    140602-195034_zps39a379c0.jpg

    Anyway, on to the point of the post: I'm concerned that I'm not feeling the "slip" that I read folks describing in some of their other posts while washing... it's definitely improved, but still a bit tumbleweed-y, for lack of a better comparison. Is that something I have to be patient for, until my hair adjusts? Or does it mean I should be switching up part of my routine? Maybe get a deep treatment? Thanks in advance for any advice, and in retrospect for all given so far!
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    If your hair "drank it up" it can't be low porosity... and because it has collagen in it it may have helped with curling, that could also mean that your hair had some damage in it. Someone else who also just tried it for the first time had the same experience and I told her what I do is, believe it or not, dilute it in water in an applicator bottle and that way I don't have to use as much. Very often you can get it at CVS and other stores for under $1 so, really, it shouldn't be a big deal to need a little more, the As I Am costs at least 6x more...

    Was your hair chemically processed in any way before starting CG or were you straightening with heat regularly? Swimming in a pool, etc.? That could explain why for you it doesn't have all the "slip" you expected, but I can tell you that my hair is color-treated but it finger detangles very very easily with the KLS. Of course, I know how to care for it so I don't ever let it dry out or anything, maybe you just need to do some DC, try a creamy one that also contains some protein.

    Your pic is a little dark so I couldn't see your curls too well but you sound happier with the results so keep trying, not everyone "takes off" smoothly with this routine, some have to give it time. Keep reading posts here, even older ones and you'll learn a lot that will help you in your hair journey.

    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    You're right about the porosity; I was guessing based on how fine it is and the "feel a strand backwards" and water float methods.. which I have since read are no substitute for a microscopic check.

    Damage is definitely a part of my hair's life... last year at this time I was bleach-blonde and putting shades of manic panic over it. Then I realized I was going gray. >.> I dye less frequently than the 8 weeks I know some people commit to, but also had been flat ironing at least once a week.

    I'm actually finishing up the AIA and don't plan to buy more... it was a gift from my well-meaning mom, because a clerk at Sally's assured her it worked magic on curls. It smells nice but seems a bit heavy for my hair. I was just shocked at the amount it looks like I used out of the KLS bottle on a single wash! I forget that I'll only be using it once or twice a week, and I did get it for a dollar, so no biggie. Just VERY different from what I'm used to!

    I'll look for a deep conditioner. Thanks for the advice and encouragement!
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I was going to comment on the low porosity, too. Because you said your hair wasn't a "rat's nest," that one time, I was doubting the low porosity. I know that my low porosity hair never tangles. I think it's because the cuticle is so tight. The second indicator was talking about slip. That's another thing that's of little concern to most folks with low porosity hair.

    Other comment is on the Wen "clone." Read your ingredients. Pretty sure it has Amodimethicone. That can be an issue for a lot of people. If you're only cowashing, it could be causing build up (and more scalp issues.) The good news is that you should only need coco b to remove it. The KMF Whenever Conditioner has coco b. You can buy a 32 oz bottle for $11 online. It may be something you want to put in your rotation (if you're going to use the a-cone.)
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    yep, I noticed the amodimethicone a couple months ago, stopped using, did a final sulfapoo and mass product giveaway to my friends shortly after.

    I guess my problems with both buildup and manageability have to do with how I've been misreading the signals my hair has been giving me and misunderstanding things I read. :confused1: I'm such a goof.

    Glad to have a group of folks to help set me straight, though. :)
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel
  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    made more sense to bump this than start a new thread, I think.

    my first day results are always great. Loving the switch to CG for that. However, afterwards, it gets dicier. I washed Tuesday evening, and this is what it looks like Thursday afternoon. Lots of relaxing in the curl pattern, lots of tangles and poof and frizz in the "underbits", and I don't know what to do with it. 20140717_124101_zpsogptxrq_edit_1405615581179_zpsgdvmh0ag.jpg

    I sleep on a silk pillowcase but my hair doesn't pineapple well (I get a choice between tight ponytails or none at all.. my hair tends to escape over the course of the night when loosely wrapped by a scrunchie or band).

    My reaction to hair days like this thus far has been to do a full soak, RO, and restyle. However, it doesn't seem to be helping the situation and I wonder if there's a better way to tackle the problem.

    My immediate assumption is that I'm over-rinsing and/or need more moisture. Given my amount of dye damage, that makes sense..A better deep treatment is probably in order too; I've wondered if there is any downside to using flavored gelatin rather than the Knox in IAGirl's recipe, since I have that lying around the house already. (if it's the color staining, I actually wouldn't mind that at all in my hair... but the skin and scalp, maybe a different story.)

    The water here comes from a well and tends to be fairly acidic. I do get protein from a few of my products, but I also have a small bottle of the liquid filler that I have no idea what to do with (bought while preparing for the worst in a different coloring fiasco). What else should I be doing to make my hair healthier/less bushy?
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel
  • KaZenner1990KaZenner1990 Posts: 859Registered Users
    I love my hair when on first day without a gel on. But oh boy on second day I have a curly lion mane(before cg it was lion mane only). I also don't like my 2nd day hair with crunch but it has usually lost it during the night. What lately works for me really good is refreshing with distilled water instead of tap water even though I don't have hard water. I just dyed my hair yesterday and although it felt dry when it was wet after my massive amount of conditioner wash now it's rather silky and too soft. I think it needs a course of DCs with a protein conditioner along with coconut oil.

    [Properties for mobile users]
    M+C/ii, high porosity, medium elasticity, growing color and heat damage.
    2C/3A Botticelli/Corkicelli.Growing out color/heat damage
    M/C, Low/Medium/High Por, Normal Elast. Medium Density
    LP: INSIGHT DAMAGED HAIR Restructurizing Shampoo
    CO: Generic protein conditioner, Hair Academy Deep Cleansing CO
    DET/RO/LI: GNC Avocado And Shea Butter Conditioner +/mask,
    Styler: Schwarzkopf Taft Fixing GelWellaflex Instant Volume Boost Mousse
    DT: EVOO, C.O
    HG
    Goal: WL when curly
    CG since Feb 2014
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    made more sense to bump this than start a new thread, I think.

    my first day results are always great. Loving the switch to CG for that. However, afterwards, it gets dicier. I washed Tuesday evening, and this is what it looks like Thursday afternoon. Lots of relaxing in the curl pattern, lots of tangles and poof and frizz in the "underbits", and I don't know what to do with it. 20140717_124101_zpsogptxrq_edit_1405615581179_zpsgdvmh0ag.jpg

    I sleep on a silk pillowcase but my hair doesn't pineapple well (I get a choice between tight ponytails or none at all.. my hair tends to escape over the course of the night when loosely wrapped by a scrunchie or band).

    My reaction to hair days like this thus far has been to do a full soak, RO, and restyle. However, it doesn't seem to be helping the situation and I wonder if there's a better way to tackle the problem.

    My immediate assumption is that I'm over-rinsing and/or need more moisture. Given my amount of dye damage, that makes sense..A better deep treatment is probably in order too; I've wondered if there is any downside to using flavored gelatin rather than the Knox in IAGirl's recipe, since I have that lying around the house already. (if it's the color staining, I actually wouldn't mind that at all in my hair... but the skin and scalp, maybe a different story.)

    The water here comes from a well and tends to be fairly acidic. I do get protein from a few of my products, but I also have a small bottle of the liquid filler that I have no idea what to do with (bought while preparing for the worst in a different coloring fiasco). What else should I be doing to make my hair healthier/less bushy?

    Hmm, I would've thought that the collagen in the KLS should've helped you with the curling, perhaps you'd like to try some as LI, when I started doing that I had great definition and curling even to the roots.

    In that pic I don't see definition/clumping, it's more a "bed head" look, so maybe you need to try a new styling technique or a stronger gel. I don't do the pineapple too loosely myself and I put a couple of large bobby pins at back, above the nape to keep the shorter hairs from coming loose. And when I really want to make sure the curls stay intact I put a satin bonnet over it.

    Another way I "do" my hair before sleeping is by making a low ponytail with a covered rubberband and now that my hair's longer I pin the ends up with 2
    overlapping large bobby pins and then the satin bonnet over it.

    I also mist my hair with distilled water before tying it up to refresh the bond of the gel or LI and although I toss and turn a lot I always make 2nd day hair and when I'm using gel, especially the LALWL, I can go even to 4th day.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • MissCamilleMissCamille Posts: 47Registered Users
    I don't have a suggestion to help with second day hair, but I do use Salon Care conditioner from Sally's to co-wash. I didn't like the cure care as much, but they both contain keratin and I use less than with Vo5.

    Good luck.
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Few weak wavies/ 2s can get multiple day hair without the structure of a styling product, even if that is only flaxseed gel with a little xanthan gum for hold.

    I also find colour treated or heat damaged hair tends not to want to maintain clumps and definition so needs more help than virgin hair.

    Also many 2s struggle with co-washing, needing to use a gentle shampoo at least occasionally. Again my colour treated/ porous hair seems to be an exception, co-washing calms the pouf/ fluff. BUT my hair can get overly soft if I don't use hydrolysed protein for 'grab', curl boosting, patch repairing.

    Do check out Chupie's channel on YouTube or join us on the Facebook Wavy Hair Community.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • geekrockgirl85geekrockgirl85 Posts: 170Registered Users
    *nod* I'm suspecting my curl pattern and current gel are both just too weak to stretch days between restyle too much... I am used to my "old" curls... I just need to come to terms with the fact that I won't see 3a curls again until I can cut all the damage out and even then, my body chemistry might be different than it used to be.

    The KLS definitely *does* help with first day hair curl. I've started using that or the Cure Care as a leave in. but my curl seems to relax throughout the day and/or night. Stronger product may be the ticket, but I hate the smell of most of them. (I bought a bottle of LAL Sport and used it exactly once. >.> Maybe it's time to change that.)

    I'm doing alright with cowash once or twice a week and leaving out the shampoo as far as clean hair without buildup now that I have a better idea what I'm doing. :) rewetting hair before pulling it up might help, too; I hadn't thought of it.

    Thanks for the replies and suggestions!
    2c. present color& past heat damage, fine, low-density, high porosity, happy with some protein. re-CG as of 5/2014. Wash:V05 PFS or KLS, RO: (trying to use up my stash; so it's always different!), LI: Cure Care, DT: SM Smooth & Repair Hair Masque, Style: Ecostyler Olive Oil / La Bella Lots of Curls gel
  • KaZenner1990KaZenner1990 Posts: 859Registered Users
    I thought I should give my own experience. Recently what I did was soaked hair without washing the scalp. And I used my cowash to condition length. In order to refresh I use distilled/dionized water and add a small bit of Desert Essence Curl coconut cream.
    And then put it up on a pineapple.

    [Properties for mobile users]
    M+C/ii, high porosity, medium elasticity, growing out color and heat damage.
    2C/3A Botticelli/Corkicelli.Growing out color/heat damage
    M/C, Low/Medium/High Por, Normal Elast. Medium Density
    LP: INSIGHT DAMAGED HAIR Restructurizing Shampoo
    CO: Generic protein conditioner, Hair Academy Deep Cleansing CO
    DET/RO/LI: GNC Avocado And Shea Butter Conditioner +/mask,
    Styler: Schwarzkopf Taft Fixing GelWellaflex Instant Volume Boost Mousse
    DT: EVOO, C.O
    HG
    Goal: WL when curly
    CG since Feb 2014

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