#YesAllWomen

tengoRizostengoRizos Posts: 195Registered Users
I don't know if any of you curlies are on twitter, but the above hashtag was a response to "not all men rape women"

And it was part inspired by Elliot Rodgers' (the Isla Vista shooter) youtube video. If you haven't seen it, it is gut-wrenching. This guy plans out his "retribution" because women rejected him.

If you haven't seen these tweets, check them out and let's hear what you think. If you have, post your favorites or ones that made you think.

Here are some to start:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/rob-fee/2014/05/14-yesallwomen-tweets-that-everyone-needs-to-see/
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Comments

  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I don't do twitter but I have read several of these through out the last 2 days. The subject matter is terrible but the idea is truly great. *I do say idea for a reason. I do not personally care for a lot of the on going, public and publicized squabbling while parents are grieving nor do I agree with either of the groups heavily involved* I am equally interested in several of the other aspects of this crime, but one can not (and should not try) deny he had numerous issues with women, or that this subject needed to be vented about.

    I do hate seeing so many say that they constantly live in fear. I can relate to the damage done by a man feeling entitled after being rejected very well, but I will not make up excuses or live in fear.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • CatitudeBooCatitudeBoo Posts: 590Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I've heard about this shooting but not the details pertaining to it. Mentally unstable, narcissistic ******* targets sorority house that houses the "hottest girls" because he feels entitled to have sex with beautiful, blonde women who have all rejected him (hmmmm wonder why?!?!).

    He's better off dead, because if he wasn't, imagine the messages that'd be flooding his inbox from foolish women buttering up his ego, thinking they could "fix" him like he was some poor, misunderstood creature by offering him sex and affection.
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  • tengoRizostengoRizos Posts: 195Registered Users
    I think people are finally starting to realize that these happenings are a multi-facted issue and focusing on just one issue (gun violence, mental health, etc) at a time wont solve anything.

    And I respect your right to not live in fear, and I aspire to do the same. However, I don't believe it is fair that sometimes I do feel afraid walking home alone.
    And I don't think we should condone a society that teaches women that if they dont do everything correctly, something bad will happen. People arent perfect, but imperfection does not justify being sexually assaulted.

    But my pet peeve with guys is when they say they are "nice guys" but girls don't go for that. I'm sorry, but since when is being a decent human being all you have to do in order to "deserve" a girlfriend or have women throw themselves at you. What's wrong with me for wanting someone who is nice, but also smart, has a positive attitude, and makes me think, and all the other qualities I look for. And generally I've found that these so-called-nice guys really arent that nice after all.
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  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    tengoRizos wrote: »

    But my pet peeve with guys is when they say they are "nice guys" but girls don't go for that. I'm sorry, but since when is being a decent human being all you have to do in order to "deserve" a girlfriend or have women throw themselves at you. What's wrong with me for wanting someone who is nice, but also smart, has a positive attitude, and makes me think, and all the other qualities I look for. And generally I've found that these so-called-nice guys really arent that nice after all.

    Yes, we actually had a separate thread a while back on 'nice guys'.
  • rouquinnerouquinne Posts: 13,734Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Jeopardy! champion Arthur Chu has a GREAT piece on The Daily Beast about that "entitlement culture" (and it relates to something i posted earlier this week on the say it thread):

    Your Princess Is in Another Castle: Misogyny, Entitlement, and Nerds - The Daily Beast
    My blog:

    http://labellatestarossa.blogspot.ca/

    Little Mother of all the Roaches, President-for-Life of the MAC Harlots!
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    tengoRizos wrote: »
    I think people are finally starting to realize that these happenings are a multi-facted issue and focusing on just one issue (gun violence, mental health, etc) at a time wont solve anything.

    And I respect your right to not live in fear, and I aspire to do the same. However, I don't believe it is fair that sometimes I do feel afraid walking home alone.
    And I don't think we should condone a society that teaches women that if they dont do everything correctly, something bad will happen. People arent perfect, but imperfection does not justify being sexually assaulted.

    But my pet peeve with guys is when they say they are "nice guys" but girls don't go for that. I'm sorry, but since when is being a decent human being all you have to do in order to "deserve" a girlfriend or have women throw themselves at you. What's wrong with me for wanting someone who is nice, but also smart, has a positive attitude, and makes me think, and all the other qualities I look for. And generally I've found that these so-called-nice guys really arent that nice after all.


    It is not fair that you feel that way. It is not fair that anyone has to feel that way. When I said I hated reading all of those tweets I mean I hate that so many women were feeling that way. Not that they should not have written it. Unfortunately this is not the lone reason for fear in our society.


    I do not 100% agree with everything this person says but this basically describes part of my reservations. Again, I think it's a great idea, but I really do not like a lot of things going on behind the scenes. *I came across so many hate pieces and plays on war between specific special interest groups when I first started reading news on the murders.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/how-yesallwomen-became-trivial-a-noble-hashtag-loses-its-bearings.html
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tengoRizostengoRizos Posts: 195Registered Users
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    tengoRizos wrote: »
    I think people are finally starting to realize that these happenings are a multi-facted issue and focusing on just one issue (gun violence, mental health, etc) at a time wont solve anything.

    And I respect your right to not live in fear, and I aspire to do the same. However, I don't believe it is fair that sometimes I do feel afraid walking home alone.
    And I don't think we should condone a society that teaches women that if they dont do everything correctly, something bad will happen. People arent perfect, but imperfection does not justify being sexually assaulted.

    But my pet peeve with guys is when they say they are "nice guys" but girls don't go for that. I'm sorry, but since when is being a decent human being all you have to do in order to "deserve" a girlfriend or have women throw themselves at you. What's wrong with me for wanting someone who is nice, but also smart, has a positive attitude, and makes me think, and all the other qualities I look for. And generally I've found that these so-called-nice guys really arent that nice after all.


    It is not fair that you feel that way. It is not fair that anyone has to feel that way. When I said I hated reading all of those tweets I mean I hate that so many women were feeling that way. Not that they should not have written it. Unfortunately this is not the lone reason for fear in our society.


    I do not 100% agree with everything this person says but this basically describes part of my reservations. Again, I think it's a great idea, but I really do not like a lot of things going on behind the scenes. *I came across so many hate pieces and plays on war between specific special interest groups when I first started reading news on the murders.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/how-yesallwomen-became-trivial-a-noble-hashtag-loses-its-bearings.html

    Oh ok. I think I misunderstood your first reply. Now that you clarified, I agree with you.

    I hadn't seen that article but I like it. I think a problem with the hashtag was it did become a way for women and girls to vent about things that personally annoy them, and no longer about All Women. And they seem to worry about minor inconveniences of being a woman, more so than the real struggles that we can face.

    And unfortunately, whenever something like this happens, special interest groups get louder. And they seem to make events like these appear like clear cut issues when everything is much more complicated.
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    tengoRizos wrote: »
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    tengoRizos wrote: »
    I think people are finally starting to realize that these happenings are a multi-facted issue and focusing on just one issue (gun violence, mental health, etc) at a time wont solve anything.

    And I respect your right to not live in fear, and I aspire to do the same. However, I don't believe it is fair that sometimes I do feel afraid walking home alone.
    And I don't think we should condone a society that teaches women that if they dont do everything correctly, something bad will happen. People arent perfect, but imperfection does not justify being sexually assaulted.

    But my pet peeve with guys is when they say they are "nice guys" but girls don't go for that. I'm sorry, but since when is being a decent human being all you have to do in order to "deserve" a girlfriend or have women throw themselves at you. What's wrong with me for wanting someone who is nice, but also smart, has a positive attitude, and makes me think, and all the other qualities I look for. And generally I've found that these so-called-nice guys really arent that nice after all.


    It is not fair that you feel that way. It is not fair that anyone has to feel that way. When I said I hated reading all of those tweets I mean I hate that so many women were feeling that way. Not that they should not have written it. Unfortunately this is not the lone reason for fear in our society.


    I do not 100% agree with everything this person says but this basically describes part of my reservations. Again, I think it's a great idea, but I really do not like a lot of things going on behind the scenes. *I came across so many hate pieces and plays on war between specific special interest groups when I first started reading news on the murders.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/how-yesallwomen-became-trivial-a-noble-hashtag-loses-its-bearings.html

    Oh ok. I think I misunderstood your first reply. Now that you clarified, I agree with you.

    I hadn't seen that article but I like it. I think a problem with the hashtag was it did become a way for women and girls to vent about things that personally annoy them, and no longer about All Women. And they seem to worry about minor inconveniences of being a woman, more so than the real struggles that we can face.

    And unfortunately, whenever something like this happens, special interest groups get louder. And they seem to make events like these appear like clear cut issues when everything is much more complicated.

    Exactly. I think the sentiment behind it is wonderful. I do worry that some women take minor annoyances and inflate the to extreme, and live in fear because of it. And some just focus on the trivial because thankfully, nothing worse has happened to them. I hope it stays that way.

    I also got very frustrated reading some pieces asking people to join the campaign while in the same breath spewing similar strange entitlements, expectations and hate. It is not that different from Elliot Rodgers. The twitter-verse is sure to spiral anyway ;) but that guarantees it.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    rouquinne wrote: »
    Jeopardy! champion Arthur Chu has a GREAT piece on The Daily Beast about that "entitlement culture" (and it relates to something i posted earlier this week on the say it thread):

    Your Princess Is in Another Castle: Misogyny, Entitlement, and Nerds - The Daily Beast

    I came across another talking about The Big Bang Theory being responsible, and this talking about a woman blaming Seth Rogen and Judd Apatow. More specifically she blamed it on their white male escapist fantasies that involve sexual wish fulfillment.

    http://rogersmovienation.com/2014/05/27/anne-hornaday-blames-seth-rogen-for-the-elliot-rodger-massacre-rogen-isnt-having-it/
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rouquinnerouquinne Posts: 13,734Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    it's not just a few movies or TV shows - as Arthur Chu points out, it goes WAY back!
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    rouquinne wrote: »
    it's not just a few movies or TV shows - as Arthur Chu points out, it goes WAY back!

    He did make some good points but I can't strictly blame nerd culture. I would like to hear some one blame the killer. *I keep trying to put myself in the shoes of one of the numerous people he ran over with car and think of how I would feel about all this. The Big Bang Theory hit me with a car? Seth Rogen? All of NC? The game I have played most of my life?

    To me it is kind of like women currently saying that commercials showing mothers in the kitchen is a ploy to get us back in it. It enters our brain and makes us think being domestic is okay, and makes men entitled enough to say make me a sandwich. Look, some women were miserable at home. Others were not. The same still stands today.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rouquinnerouquinne Posts: 13,734Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    the entertainment world is just a reflection of the culture we live in. the great majority of it is produced by straight men FOR straight men and reflects their fantasy lives.

    Chuck Wendig outlines that in his article:

    Not All Men, But Still Too Many Men « terribleminds: chuck wendig
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    You'll have to forgive me, Rou. You know I love you, and again I will say that person had some points, but I hate all of this. I hate all of the generalizations and blame this and blame that. I wish I knew why the generation below me is hell bent on killing in this way. Why did it really kick in, in the late 90s/early 2000s? I know numerous people enthralled in NC who would never hurt and fly and are some of the most thoughtful people one could meet.

    Most of all, if it's coming from special interest groups I can not trust it. I do not trust them. I have no faith in them. *You can go back and find blogs from feminists blaming this on the mens rights not long after the story broke. Label them a hate group! Tell the government to stop them now! They are responsible for this! Never mind the fact that there is proof he had these views long before he started following the sites. The guy stood in corners and cried for hours at 9 years old because he had to share people. That is not good. I have read about the Mens Rights and Feminist group fights. "Not all" but some. They can both be scum of the earth and often set each other up. They both have views and spew things I find insane. Really, starting a hash tag to get the goat of mens rights groups in the wake of a tragedy is not coming from the best place. Women coming together, fine. That method is going to start a tiff and it's known.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tengoRizostengoRizos Posts: 195Registered Users
    I understand that. And I do blame the killer. He had twisted ideals and violent tendencies.

    What was scary to me is that his words match things I have heard my guy friends say regularly.

    Am I afraid my friends will go on a shooting rampage, no. But it is still not a good view to have towards women and it is something that needs to be changed.
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ^ Things like what? (As in "not all men" or something more specific about women rejecting them and them being mad?)
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tengoRizostengoRizos Posts: 195Registered Users
    The lines about being a gentleman and therefore being deserving of sex. Or being offended that a girl dared to turn him down when he made an advance on her, as though it was through a lapse in her judgement.
    Just overall viewing sex as a prize or something to earn, I guess.
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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I'm glad this campaign is gaining momentum. Once or twice every generation there is some kind of minirevolution waged against sexism in our society and it chips away a little bit at the male privilege we've all but internalized. (Thinking of Anita Hill and the conviction of Robert Chambers for the murder of Jennifer Levin.) Tweet on, sisters! ;)

  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    tengoRizos wrote: »
    The lines about being a gentleman and therefore being deserving of sex. Or being offended that a girl dared to turn him down when he made an advance on her, as though it was through a lapse in her judgement.
    Just overall viewing sex as a prize or something to earn, I guess.

    They absolutely do need to work on that. I don't automatically think that makes someone bad or means they actually do see women as a prize. Like you said, you don't think they will go out and harm anyone. I have heard women say a guy would not sleep with her because he is gay, because he like sluts, etc. Something is damned and wrong about him. Then you have women and men who blame and are way too hard on themselves. I have seen women halfway attempt suicide after a man left her because she wanted him to feel bad and come running back. Men have done the same. There is often a great deal of poor wording and actions on both parts and sometimes some pretty messed up reactions to rejection. Most are fine now and in healthy relationships. It's often worse when one is younger BUT it never hurts to talk to them about it.


    I went out a few dates with a guy who ended up driving me somewhere against my will, told me if he could not have me no one could, and drove down a mountain at 90mph. I hardly knew him. Had only kissed him a couple times. He was bipolar and had a manic/violent episode on our date. Just one of those things that could not be controlled. He had not even been diagnosed at that point. That is not the worst thing that has happened, but it was not pleasant.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Do note I don't say one of those things to brush it off. It was years ago and basically boils down to...??? Well that happened :-/

    *It would also be why I don't like to see people automatically dismiss mental health issues. I have seen that going around like crazy. It happens.

    And pardon all my edits. I have to keep hopping on and off.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DedachanDedachan Posts: 1,644Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It's hard to say how much of what happened was due to rape culture or just one man's insanity, but I believe the #yesallwomen tag was a response to the #notallmen tag, and I completely agree with article:

    Not all men: How discussing women’s issues gets derailed.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Dedachan wrote: »
    It's hard to say how much of what happened was due to rape culture or just one man's insanity, but I believe the #yesallwomen tag was a response to the #notallmen tag, and I completely agree with article:

    Not all men: How discussing women’s issues gets derailed.

    Yes, it was. It has been used in disputes between the 2 groups for sometime. Memes have been created, the hash tag was created years ago, and #YAW was created in response to mens rights groups, after 6 people were murdered and 13 were injured.

    Honestly, it's a bit of baiting with a guaranteed rough response after several blogs blaming mens rights groups for the murders. That does not make the response correct, but it is not surprising.


    I am still curious about the mens rights thing. The language changed from yes he was a part to "supposedly" a part. Several feminist traced Elliot Rodgers online foot prints. They first made the claims. He had visited mens rights groups but he seemed, in a way, to be trolling the whatever pick up artists. Idk. He hated jocks. These were body builders and fairly jockey guys. I saw a few people say the same on some blogs and receive quite a backlash for it. That is not saying these men are great people. Just stating that it seemed off and he was called out by several guys on that forum.

    *The parts of his videos I have seen were so strange, too. *I refuse to go to YT and watch. I've read and seen clips on the news. Quite frankly, he was like a bad actor. Like he had a teleprompter rolling in front of him and this deep disconnect from the words coming out of his mouth. That is not any type of speculation. Just an observation. Creepy.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It's amazing what you can learn about all this in few minutes.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I don't understand why anyone would want to do the not all men... and say some really horrible stuff. I don't understand a great deal of hate I see on both sides. I will say that I do understand some men and women saying it again as a source of comfort or to say hey! you really are going off the tracks yourself. It does not automatically mean derailment. I want to say it myself, and I know most women know but I am also not sure about some, for good reason. I came across a tweet saying

    "Both RAINN and the White House Task Force on Sexual Assault both state "but most men aren't rapists". Patriarchy upheld everywhere!"


    RAINN and the White House task force are not trying to derail you. They are making a statement to someone who may be reading information and scared or startled. Quit pointing and reacting.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tengoRizostengoRizos Posts: 195Registered Users
    I understand part of the "not all men" thing. There are truly wonderful guys in the world. And I understand that they want to distance themselves from these bad men.

    However, to me the best way to do that would be not to minimize the struggles women face at the hand of men.

    Prove you are one of the good guys through actions, not words.
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    tengoRizos wrote: »
    I understand part of the "not all men" thing. There are truly wonderful guys in the world. And I understand that they want to distance themselves from these bad men.

    However, to me the best way to do that would be not to minimize the struggles women face at the hand of men.

    Prove you are one of the good guys through actions, not words.

    See I kind of go back and forth on that. I am not one who minds if a man joins the discussion, and I am not going to get upset about three words unless something horrible comes after. I also don't see the harm in reassuring or checking someone from time to time. More people should have checked Elliot Rodgers when he was ranting about women. I personally could not ask someone to NOT do the same. This is part of the reason why I do not do well in these environments.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ^ That is mainly about things I have read in other places. Not necessarily this campaign. *I am also not one who throws around privilege so it's a simple check. That would be the most unnatural phrase coming out of my mouth. I simply read or watch some things and wonder how younger guys and girls feel while watching or reading it. I am sure many do. I am not one who freaks out about broad brush strokes at times but when some pretty hateful stuff is attached it just strikes me as odd. Especially considering that I see some of the same people freak out and lecture you if you do it in a much milder way.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Out of all this it is a good thing that rape culture is being discussed.

    But I'm really annoyed about all the coverage and excuses this guy is getting, blaming it on mental illnesses. If he wasn't white, he would be labeled a thug or terrorist and basically a monster instead of a poor rich white kid.
  • butter52butter52 Posts: 292Registered Users
    Hmm I don't agree at all with that "entitlement to women culture" as how those articles are picturing it.

    Big ban theory is just a Cinderella. Ive personally heard retarded coments like "thats because you girls dont pay attention to those socially ackward nerds that they are so disfunctional and instead go with idiots" but I also hear all the time "why are man such idiots that instead of wanting me they want those sluts/bimbos/whatever".

    I think unfortunatly we are in a society that acounts success in number of sex encounters for men, while also slut shames and objectifies women. With those parameters you just need a frustrated psicho to have a tragedy.

    And I don't think blaming the mental illness is an excuse, he was mentally ill, and probably the insane sex culture we all live in triggered it. So one thing doesnt excuse the other.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I don't see mentally ill as an excuse either. A strong possibility. I'm more likely to think there could be many factors and it could have been a combination of all. I am still curious about medication. Was he on some, was he mixing? It's not that I think people are using mental illness as an excuse to completely deny the misogyny, or to thwart other issues. I don't believe saying it brings a negative connotation to all those with mental illness. It's a wide term. Several are no where near violent, some are.

    That reminds me of an article I came across so many months ago. A woman had compiled stats on violence in bipolar mania. She was telling people that she knew it was hard to say. You didn't want to contribute to a stigma, but you also could not ignore facts that it does happen. That helps no one who has experienced it, and helps no one be vigilant about their treatment. Too many are attacked for saying the words. She was bipolar herself. Very well written, and I appreciated that after my experience.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I am just as uneasy about labeling white men as having a social disease as a result of a rape culture as someone else is about saying all mentally ill people are violent. The thing is, I have not came across anyone saying all people with mental illness are violent. I have came across some rather nuanced discussions on the topic.

    *We are talking about more than one generation making up a public where you have friends & family who fall under the large/catch all umbrella of "mentally ill."

    As far as the other goes, I keep getting frustrated. White blonde headed sluts, white disease, black men who date white sluts, asian men who date white sluts, European and Asian is far better, white male fantasies, back to the rejecting white sluts. Obsessed much? I'm not saying I do not get where people are coming from but dang.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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