? About Using LESS Leave-In in Humidity

testimony777testimony777 Posts: 237Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
Hello Curlies,

I have noticed a lot of you all talking about using less (or even no) leave-in and more gel to combat humidity. I get the need for (more) gel but I am confused about the leave-in. It sees like using more leave-in would help prevent the hair from needing additional moisture and absorbing that moisture from the air.

This is definitely the case with my hair. I don't really have a problem with my hair loosing moisture in the winter time but I do have a problem with it expanding because of humidity in the spring and summer. As a result I use less leave-in and humectant rich stylers in the winter time and more leave-in and anti humectant gels in the spring/summer.

Does how one's hair behave in warmer vs. cooler months (as it relates to needing a leave-in) have to do with porosity? If so, could someone explain this relationship? Thanks :)
Hair Stats (CG since 3/31/12)
Type: 3c/b; Density: M; Texture: F-M; Porosity: L-N

Products
Cleanser: DevaCurl Decadence No Poo
Conditioner: DevaCurl Original One Condition
Leave-in: DevaCurl B'Leave-in
Stylers: DevaCurl Volumizing Frizz Free Foam, DevaCurl Beautiful Mess, DevaCurl Flexible Hold Hairspray
Refresher: DevaCurl No Comb Detangling Spray
Finisher: DevaCurl Shine Spray

Comments

  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I'd also like a good explanation. :)
    3a, dense, fairly coarse, normal porosity and elasticity, just below shoulder
    Low poo: Giovanni 50 50
    Co-wash: aia, suave coconut, salon care
    R O: Tresume Naturals, gvpcb
    L I: KCKT, gvpcb
    Stylers: cjpp, re : coil, kccc, brhg
    Oils: coconut, argan
    Experimenting with: curls rock amplifier, pantene mousse
  • HaileyRHaileyR Posts: 98Registered Users
    Being fairly new to the curly world, I don't have an explanation as to why but I +1 the claim that less is better in humidity. After battling a long 7 month freezing winter, I've gone through bottles and bottles of leave ins and moisturizers. Without them even one day my hair was insane. Lately I have noticed that my hair is super frizzy despite not changing my routine up. The only change has been the severe heat and muggy weather. For about a week I have used much less leave in, cut out my moisturizer all together and my curls have come back to life! So I don't know why but yes it seems that less is more in these sticky summer months.
    High Porosity
    Fine
    Dense
    2c-3b
  • Geek_ChicGeek_Chic Posts: 1,275Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I use leave-in year round, with a very few exceptions, and if I eliminate a conditioning step, it's generally my RO. Normally the RO step is where you'd detangle, but my hair isn't very tangle-prone in the first place. I can usually do my detangling (if any) as I rinse out my co-wash or when I apply my LI. Without any LI, my ends tend to frizz and separate, even with gel, probably because they're more porous than the rest of my hair. In the warmer months I do use a lighter, more protein rich LI than in cooler months, where I use more of a moisturizing LI.

    In warmer months, when there's a lot of moisture in the air, higher porosity hair will generally allow more humidity into the hair shaft, which means it can be more prone to frizz and poof. In cooler months when there's less moisture available in the air, higher porosity hair will generally release more moisture into the air, which means it can be more prone to dryness and frizz than lower porosity hair. This is why higher porosity hair typically benefits from sealing during both humid weather and dry winter weather.

    As far as using less LI during warm weather, consider that humidity = moisture. More moisture in the air and available to hair should mean you don't need as much of your moisturizing products. However, if your hair tends to be dry, skipping a LI entirely can leave the hair reaching out for needed moisture from the air (think frizz and poof). You'll want to find a balance between enough LI to prevent the poof /frizz, but not so much you end up overmoisturized.
    CG since 11/2011
    2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

    Go To Products /Routine:
    Clarifying: Suave Essentials Strawberry
    Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
    CO: Suave Essentials Strawberry, V05 Kiwi Lime
    RO /LI: Tresemme Perfectly (un)Done, Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze, Suave Essentials Strawberry, Renpure Brazilian Keratin (old formula)
    Stylers: LALSG, AIF, HETT, Suave Professionals Firm Control
    PT: IAGirl's as needed
  • sheilacurlsheilacurl Posts: 1,240Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I just wanted to stop by and say thank you to Gee_chic, for taking the time to always give us all very good advice. When you post on a thread I make sure that I read whatever you have to say. I, among others (I am sure) really do appreciate your wisdom here.

    In your opinion, which oil would you recommend for sealing?

    Thank you!
    Upper Michigan Dews
    3a ~ Fine ~ High Porosity ~ Normal Density

    NoPoo: JC Cleansing Cream
    Rinse Outs: SS:PRT, CJ Repair Me, CJ Argan
    Detangler: KCKT
    Leave-in: CJ Repair me
    Stylers: UFDCM, BRHG
    Refreshers: Batiste (dry shampoo) on the roots & UFDCM everywhere else

    iHerb Discount Code: SAF007

  • SamanthascurlzSamanthascurlz Posts: 1,082Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Geek_Chic wrote: »
    I use leave-in year round, with a very few exceptions, and if I eliminate a conditioning step, it's generally my RO. Normally the RO step is where you'd detangle, but my hair isn't very tangle-prone in the first place. I can usually do my detangling (if any) as I rinse out my co-wash or when I apply my LI. Without any LI, my ends tend to frizz and separate, even with gel, probably because they're more porous than the rest of my hair. In the warmer months I do use a lighter, more protein rich LI than in cooler months, where I use more of a moisturizing LI.

    In warmer months, when there's a lot of moisture in the air, higher porosity hair will generally allow more humidity into the hair shaft, which means it can be more prone to frizz and poof. In cooler months when there's less moisture available in the air, higher porosity hair will generally release more moisture into the air, which means it can be more prone to dryness and frizz than lower porosity hair. This is why higher porosity hair typically benefits from sealing during both humid weather and dry winter weather.

    As far as using less LI during warm weather, consider that humidity = moisture. More moisture in the air and available to hair should mean you don't need as much of your moisturizing products. However, if your hair tends to be dry, skipping a LI entirely can leave the hair reaching out for needed moisture from the air (think frizz and poof). You'll want to find a balance between enough LI to prevent the poof /frizz, but not so much you end up overmoisturized.

    Ha me having high porosity, this is how my hair reacts precisely!
    CG, High Porosity, Fine, Low Density, Medium Elasticity
    Suave, V05, GF Go clean gel, ACV rinses, CO, and Gelatine PT.
    [URL="[url=http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/members/samanthascurlz-albums-evolvement-my-hair.html]Curls[/url]"][/url]Curls
  • Geek_ChicGeek_Chic Posts: 1,275Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    sheilacurl wrote: »
    I just wanted to stop by and say thank you to Gee_chic, for taking the time to always give us all very good advice. When you post on a thread I make sure that I read whatever you have to say. I, among others (I am sure) really do appreciate your wisdom here.

    In your opinion, which oil would you recommend for sealing?

    Thank you!

    :) Thank you, Sheilacurl. Hair has sorta become my hobby since I started CG back in 2011, and I enjoy delving into the science side. I know not everyone wants to read study results or get in depth, so if I can simplify it into more bite-size chunks for someone, I feel like that's a win-win. Back when I first joined, there were several ladies whose posts were super informative, Rymorg2, Kathymack, IAGirl, RedCelticCurls, and Struttswife to name a few. It's worth it to me to pay it forward, so to speak.

    Although I'll occasionally add some coconut oil to 2nd day hair, I don't really do sealing, since only my ends act porous. I have used and liked using conditioners with a good amount of oil in them as both middle of winter (argan) and summer (coconut) LI's. I feel like they acted as a bit of a sealant, without doing a separate "seal with oil" step. At least, by the time it got humid enough to frizz through my LI in summer, it was too hot to have my hair down anyway. In the winter, the moisturized hair lasted till my next wash day (every other day, generally, so 48 hours, give or take). Might be something to consider if you can't get straight oils to work in your hair.

    Ymmv on these, since I don't seal myself, but as far as oils to try, you might check out jojoba, which is fairly close to human sebum in composition, even though it's technically a liquid wax. Grapeseed and sweet almond are two others that are on the lighter side, so might be less likely to weigh down fine hair. Also, a member here used to swear by a few drops of mineral oil. If I recall, her hair was mid-back lenth and porous, but fine. Worked great for her and didn't build up. According to Natural Haven, mineral oil is superior to natural oils at keeping water from evaporating out of hair.

    Another thing I found interesting was another Natural Haven page that states that although coconut oil does penetrate the hair shaft, some is still left on the outside coating the cuticle. So even though they do penetrate, and thus perhaps aren't as good at "sealing" as a non-penetrating oil, it might be worth trying penetrating oils to seal as well.

    Here's a Science-y Hair Blog page about which oils penetrate and which do not, if you'd like a reference.
    CG since 11/2011
    2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

    Go To Products /Routine:
    Clarifying: Suave Essentials Strawberry
    Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
    CO: Suave Essentials Strawberry, V05 Kiwi Lime
    RO /LI: Tresemme Perfectly (un)Done, Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze, Suave Essentials Strawberry, Renpure Brazilian Keratin (old formula)
    Stylers: LALSG, AIF, HETT, Suave Professionals Firm Control
    PT: IAGirl's as needed
  • testimony777testimony777 Posts: 237Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Geek_Chic wrote: »
    I use leave-in year round, with a very few exceptions, and if I eliminate a conditioning step, it's generally my RO. Normally the RO step is where you'd detangle, but my hair isn't very tangle-prone in the first place. I can usually do my detangling (if any) as I rinse out my co-wash or when I apply my LI. Without any LI, my ends tend to frizz and separate, even with gel, probably because they're more porous than the rest of my hair. In the warmer months I do use a lighter, more protein rich LI than in cooler months, where I use more of a moisturizing LI.

    In warmer months, when there's a lot of moisture in the air, higher porosity hair will generally allow more humidity into the hair shaft, which means it can be more prone to frizz and poof. In cooler months when there's less moisture available in the air, higher porosity hair will generally release more moisture into the air, which means it can be more prone to dryness and frizz than lower porosity hair. This is why higher porosity hair typically benefits from sealing during both humid weather and dry winter weather.

    As far as using less LI during warm weather, consider that humidity = moisture. More moisture in the air and available to hair should mean you don't need as much of your moisturizing products. However, if your hair tends to be dry, skipping a LI entirely can leave the hair reaching out for needed moisture from the air (think frizz and poof). You'll want to find a balance between enough LI to prevent the poof /frizz, but not so much you end up overmoisturized.

    Thanks for this reply! I guess I am perplexed because my hair seems to do the opposite of this. In the winter I use less leave in and lighter products in general to avoid weighing my hair down and I never seal. Dryness is not really a problem for me during the fall/winter (or spring/summer for that matter). This spring I have found that I am needing to leave in more conditioner than I did during the fall/winter and I need a heavier/hard hold gel just to get second day hair. The change in the the amount of conditioner I leave in is probably not significant but there is a positive change and I can't imagine going without it.

    Could it be that I am needing more leave in to counter the drying effect of the hard hold gel? I wonder if I should try using less leave-in in conjunction with a moisturizing gel/styler.
    Hair Stats (CG since 3/31/12)
    Type: 3c/b; Density: M; Texture: F-M; Porosity: L-N

    Products
    Cleanser: DevaCurl Decadence No Poo
    Conditioner: DevaCurl Original One Condition
    Leave-in: DevaCurl B'Leave-in
    Stylers: DevaCurl Volumizing Frizz Free Foam, DevaCurl Beautiful Mess, DevaCurl Flexible Hold Hairspray
    Refresher: DevaCurl No Comb Detangling Spray
    Finisher: DevaCurl Shine Spray
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I do something similar to Geek_Chic. Depend on my products to seal.

    One of the things I do when the dewpoint climbs is use fewer layers with my styling products. When the dewpoint is low, I use a leave in, curl enhancer and a jelly product. When the dewpoint is high, I use a leave in OR curl enhancer and a jelly product. Straight oil/butter seem to just sit on my hair (I know this is the point of sealing, but on my low porosity hair--it's not a pretty site.) However, if I use a minute amount of a "richer," well formulated product, it works out really well. For the most part, I'll use a Marie Dean leave in or curl creme for this purpose.

    I wet, use a rinse out and style every day. So, I don't know how this would work for second day + hair.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • DaniGirl88DaniGirl88 Posts: 1,583Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I use less LI, but actually leave some of my rinse out conditioner in during the summer months. So, really I'm using the same amount I guess. Lately, I've been leaving the TN in instead of rinsing it all the way out, and then putting some AIA LI on top, and then finishing with a very minimal amount of SMCES. Then, when I SOTC, my hair is soft and not frizzy. I've found that this combats St. Louis humidity pretty well.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    3B, fine, normal porosity, high density, medium width and length
    Conditioner: Tresemme Naturals, Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle
    Co-Wash: As I Am Coconut Co-Wash
    Leave in Products: As I Am Leave-In, SM Smoothie/Milk, KCKT, Giovanni Direct Leave-In
    Air Dry

    Looking for new products and methods to try!



  • SassifrassSassifrass Posts: 49Registered Users
    I've been using a little less LI because I'm mixing a little grapeseed oil in to seal my hair. I've found that if I don't scale back a little on LI, with the addition of the oil it is just too much for my fine hair.

    On days where the dews are closer to ideal ranges I can skip the GSO and use my normal amount of LI.
    3a, fine, low/medium density, high porosity. Protein loving.

    Lo poo: Desert Essence Coconut Shampoo.
    RO: DevaCurl One Condition
    LI: DevaCurl One Condition
    Styler: DevaCurl Ultra Defining Gel
    PT: IAgirl's Gelatin PT
  • testimony777testimony777 Posts: 237Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Thanks for all these responses ladies! It looks like a number of you are reducing the LI but adding richer stylers or oils. That makes sense; you don't need the additional moisture of the LI but you do need a bit more protection from the humidity. So far I have had decent results with the hard hold gel, but if that gets to be drying I will try reducing the LI and adding oil or a more emollient styler.
    Hair Stats (CG since 3/31/12)
    Type: 3c/b; Density: M; Texture: F-M; Porosity: L-N

    Products
    Cleanser: DevaCurl Decadence No Poo
    Conditioner: DevaCurl Original One Condition
    Leave-in: DevaCurl B'Leave-in
    Stylers: DevaCurl Volumizing Frizz Free Foam, DevaCurl Beautiful Mess, DevaCurl Flexible Hold Hairspray
    Refresher: DevaCurl No Comb Detangling Spray
    Finisher: DevaCurl Shine Spray
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,065Registered Users Curl Novice
    Hair width, hair density and curl pattern may play a part.

    I live in a yearround hot/humid climate with dews in the 70s-80s. I have fine, low porosity hair with medium density.

    Leave-ins are very very tricky for me. I'll use one one day, and frizz will be reduced, I'll get nice rope curls and the benefit will be that which you describe. But then, I'll do the exact same thing the next wash, and I'm OC-ed. With my properties I seem to OC very easily so leave-ins are tricky. I've also tried using conditioning PTs as leave-ins... again, that'll work once, but not the second time. They'll be too much the second time.

    I've just learned that my hair is very very temperamental. I either still haven't found the right combination of things or it's just fussy and I have to keep changing things. Or both. Definitely fussy.

    In any case, I can't reliably use leave-ins. They'll make my hair limp with continued usage. If I had more coarse hair or a tighter curl pattern, it could withstand the "limpness." If I had more density maybe the limpness wouldn't be such a problem. But on a wavy with not too much hair, limpness isn't good. I also think that if my hair were more porous it might be able to handle LIs better.

    Most of the time I find that a straight gel or gelly or a combination of the two gives me much more consistent results. I don't have to worry about getting OC-ed. My hair is also never dry, so, I don't feel the need to wear LI.

    By all means, if LIs are working for you in the summertime, do continue using them.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    How your hair responds to humidity is related to dew points and your hair's porosity, which I see you list as low to moderate. The amount of water that's evaporated in the air is determined by the dew point, which can never be higher than the ambient temperature. The analogy which Struttswife (Tiffany Anderson, author of Live Curly, Live Free) uses IIRC is comparing the amount of water which can be held in a thimble (low temperatures) to the amount of water which can be held in a bathtub. No matter how full the thimble gets, it's not going to be able to hold as much water as a bathtub.

    Do you, by any chance, live somewhere where the dew points don't get dreadfully low over the winter, or, conversely, somewhere where they get really low (negative numbers) over the winter? Either one could explain why your hair behaves differently from winter to summer than that of someone else with low porosity hair who lives in a more moderate climate. (I know Canadian curlies who say that below a certain point, Tiffany's rules for humectants don't seem to work, and they speculate that may be because she doesn't see negative dew points in Florida.)
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • testimony777testimony777 Posts: 237Registered Users Curl Connoisseur

    Do you, by any chance, live somewhere where the dew points don't get dreadfully low over the winter, or, conversely, somewhere where they get really low (negative numbers) over the winter? Either one could explain why your hair behaves differently from winter to summer than that of someone else with low porosity hair who lives in a more moderate climate. (I know Canadian curlies who say that below a certain point, Tiffany's rules for humectants don't seem to work, and they speculate that may be because she doesn't see negative dew points in Florida.)

    I live in Chicago. We get really low dews during the fall/winter (sub zero temps) and this winter was particularly cold, dry and long (the winter of the polar vortex). On the flip side our spring/summer months are very hot and humid.

    The part in bold really makes sense. I read that analogy on the LCLF web site a while ago but I gave up on trying to use that information about dew points. While the science made sense the corresponding rules about ingredients never seemed to apply to my hair. I never considered the impact of extreme weather. Thanks for sharing that!

    Wavydaze- I think you are right that it is not just one hair property that determines how the hair is impacted by humidity. As a medium-course, medium density, low porosity curly dryness is rarely an issue for me (now that my hair is in good condition) but neither is over conditioning/moisturizing (most of the time). Maybe the coarsens and porosity of my hair combined with the climate extremes of my area account for why upping my LI to combat humidity is working the way it is working for me so far.

    I am so fascinated by all of the things that impact the way our hair behaves. I really appreciate all of these explanations ladies!
    Hair Stats (CG since 3/31/12)
    Type: 3c/b; Density: M; Texture: F-M; Porosity: L-N

    Products
    Cleanser: DevaCurl Decadence No Poo
    Conditioner: DevaCurl Original One Condition
    Leave-in: DevaCurl B'Leave-in
    Stylers: DevaCurl Volumizing Frizz Free Foam, DevaCurl Beautiful Mess, DevaCurl Flexible Hold Hairspray
    Refresher: DevaCurl No Comb Detangling Spray
    Finisher: DevaCurl Shine Spray

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