Opinions on: Trigger Warnings on University Syllabi

Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/20/opinion/perry-trigger-warning-label-for-shakespeare/?c=&page=1

Considering that movies and television have a warning scale for violence, adult themes, sexual situations and rape I can't say I have a problem with the idea in general. It's nothing new. Granted, this system is for deeming content age appropriate, and not emotionally appropriate. However, when it comes to education, I can see the list of potential problems some worry about. I have read stories about people pushing for Trigger Warnings on High School and College learning material. Nothing has been mandatory so far, strictly optional. In turn, some have then pushed for the material to be removed. Others have pushed for the learning objectives to be optional so no one is traumatized by a story. And at one college, a few students pushed for a statue of a sleep walking male student, in his underwear, to be moved inside because it was ominous to some. The list of odd and extra requests inside and outside of the educational material keeps growing due to claims of PTSD. I know there are traumatic situations outside of war that can cause different stress and anxiety disorders in some, but I also feel the more frivolous claims of PTSD belittles and lessons the situation for others who have been through a trauma. There is also the question of resulting censorship of words and images, the fact that some who have been through trauma use exposure therapy (which is only a problem if material is banned), and the concerns that some have over a potential set up for mass lawsuits.

What are your thoughts & feelings?
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/20/opinion/perry-trigger-warning-label-for-shakespeare/?c=&page=1

    Considering that movies and television have a warning scale for violence, adult themes, sexual situations and rape I can't say I have a problem with the idea in general. It's nothing new. Granted, this system is for deeming content age appropriate, and not emotionally appropriate. However, when it comes to education, I can see the list of potential problems some worry about. I have read stories about people pushing for Trigger Warnings on High School and College learning material. Nothing has been mandatory so far, strictly optional. In turn, some have then pushed for the material to be removed. Others have pushed for the learning objectives to be optional so no one is traumatized by a story. And at one college, a few students pushed for a statue of a sleep walking male student, in his underwear, to be moved inside because it was ominous to some. The list of odd and extra requests inside and outside of the educational material keeps growing due to claims of PTSD. I know there are traumatic situations outside of war that can cause different stress and anxiety disorders in some, but I also feel the more frivolous claims of PTSD belittles and lessons the situation for others who have been through a trauma. There is also the question of resulting censorship of words and images, the fact that some who have been through trauma use exposure therapy (which is only a problem if material is banned), and the concerns that some have over a potential set up for mass lawsuits.

    What are your thoughts & feelings?

    I agree that this could basically result in a slippery slope. My degree is in sociology, and our first year special topics course was on colonialism genocide and terrorism in the twentieth century. From my perspective, if people have had to live through horrific circumstances, I should at least be able to learn about them. A policy of allowing discomfort to dictate the contents of a curriculum could result in a serious lack of knowledge about what really goes on in the world, which would be problematic for anyone claiming to be well educated.
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Well said. That was another common concern that I came across. It does have the potential to become limiting.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I do see more of a push or immediate reaction based on images now. No back story necessary. Like the situation with the statue. It makes someone feel ... therefore it is. Art is supposed to make you feel something, and it is not always supposed to be warm and fuzzy, but your feelings alone do not define it. Your idea can be the complete opposite of the creators.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ^ One little expansion on that. It is simply the statue of a man titled "Sleepwalker". It's a landscape piece intended to show someone who is lost, out of place and asleep at wheel in life. Bronze Zombie in his skivvies.

    ImageUploadedByCurlTalk1401108067.671882.jpg

    http://www.boston.com/yourcampus/news/wellesley/2014/02/qa_with_tony_matelli_artist_behind_wellesley_colleges_scantily-clad_sleepwalking_statue.html

    *and it was vandalized on the 22nd.*
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Corrina777Corrina777 Posts: 3,204Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I need to get my thoughts together on this one, and will post a more detailed reply later, but I'm generally opposed to the idea of trigger warnings.
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  • SereneCurlsSereneCurls Posts: 1,145Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Yes, there's the art as activism versus art for art's sake debate. It seems as though the mainstream concept of art is basically something pretty to look at. This doesn't account for all the ways an image can challenge people, startling them out of their comfort zone. People have been opposed to this sort of challenge for centuries, it's nothing new, but wanting to get rid of something because you don't understand it seems like the very definition of ignorance, in a setting where ignorance should not be well tolerated.
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Corrina777 wrote: »
    I need to get my thoughts together on this one, and will post a more detailed reply later, but I'm generally opposed to the idea of trigger warnings.

    I know what you mean :)
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Yes, there's the art as activism versus art for art's sake debate. It seems as though the mainstream concept of art is basically something pretty to look at. This doesn't account for all the ways an image can challenge people, startling them out of their comfort zone. People have been opposed to this sort of challenge for centuries, it's nothing new, but wanting to get rid of something because you don't understand it seems like the very definition of ignorance, in a setting where ignorance should not be well tolerated.

    It does, and I am glad the University did not budge. From what I could gather, several articles on it seem to lack information on the number of people who actually liked the piece. It is a greater number than those who opposed, but they started a petition and voiced concerns about triggers, and the statue being a constant reminder of male privilege. Apparently some also found the sight of children playing around the statue to be deeply unsettling. The rest dressed him up and shared pic's on Instagram. Several media sources said the opposition wanted the piece removed. A few did but most wanted it moved inside because they found him creepy. They said that would not hinder artistic expression. They did not seem to understand that moving the statue would change the aesthetic and intent. It was placed there, by the artist and museum on campus, for a reason. It is located in perfect view from the museum, window while viewing his other work. It is a really good discussion piece.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I don't patently object to this but the article said:

    The biggest problem here emerges from the nature of trauma. Triggers are extremely personal and, from the outside, unpredictable. Professors cannot review their course material and know, with any certainty, what might or might not function as a trigger for their students.

    So I think it would be hard to identify all the course content that could potentially be a trigger for someone. Course catalogs always contain a brief description of the material that will be taught. And students with these kinds of emotional issues can also ask their instructors for more detail on the material so they can decide if it would be too much for them.

  • PerriPPerriP Posts: 6,613Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I don't patently object to this but the article said:

    The biggest problem here emerges from the nature of trauma. Triggers are extremely personal and, from the outside, unpredictable. Professors cannot review their course material and know, with any certainty, what might or might not function as a trigger for their students.

    So I think it would be hard to identify all the course content that could potentially be a trigger for someone. Course catalogs always contain a brief description of the material that will be taught. And students with these kids of emotional issues can also ask their instructors for more detail on the material.

    I agree
    I also think that part of healing requires you to manage your own triggers and make a plan to deal with them (which sounds harsh, but I do not mean it that way - I say this from first hand experience). The larger issue is when people aren't aware of their triggers or aren't far enough along in their healing to recognize what's going on.

    All of that said, I was in my late 20s/early 30s before I started understanding my triggers, and I managed to make it through college (and life) without warnings (I was dx with "PTSD with re-occuring major depressive episodes" in my late 20s due to stuff that happened when I was a kid)

    eta: I'm not sure if the label lasts forever or not, but I no longer suffer from the extreme symptoms - the flashbacks, dissociation, etc - I've learned to manage a lot of that kind of stuff (years and years of work! :) )
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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Spider, I agree as well. It would be incredibly hard. Most 'isms' are requested under trigger warnings along with suicide, murder, death in general, phobias of bugs, clowns, balloons, etc. Anything one can think of. Some have been through a trauma, some have read about one, some experienced the loss of a friend or family, and some simply don't want to hear it. In most articles I read teachers stated that students have came up to them with different trigger warning requests, after lessons, for several years. 'My Aunt died last week, I wish a trigger warning about death would have been included before this lesson.'

    Perri, I agree with you 100% and do not think you sound harsh. I have had my issues to face in life, and I did it all without a warning. Life does not give you a warning. You have to learn how to overcome adversities and deal with your emotions and I truly wish people would stop accommodating hiding your head under the covers. It does no one any favors. It just teaches people to stop, stay in neutral, and crumble as opposed to standing up straight and going forward. Even if it is a incredibly slow pace.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I seem to see several people asking for stuff to be banned, removed, and have warnings placed on it for others who MAY have been victimized or traumatized and MIGHT have a bad reaction. I do not doubt that several of them come from a good place but "it may hurt someones feelings" is no real excuse. Not in a context like this. Not in the context of life. You can not control everything. Let that person speak for themselves. I can't image someone doing that when I was growing up. I can't imagine where I would be or what I would be like of someone wanted warnings on everything and requested it be optional. Would I have made any progress? Could I even remotely do the job I do now? No trigger warnings in sight.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    It reminds me of how all fragrances get banned in an office bc someone has an intolerance to certain kinds. At what point should the individual bear responsibility for his/her own issue and when does it become a community issue?

  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Trigger warnings are supposed to be for things that are likely to "trigger" a ptsd response, like flashbacks and panic attacks. Having warnings for this stuff is a Good Idea.

    However, the notion of trigger warnings has been diluted into frivolous bs thanks to immature idiots on the internet. People talk about being "triggered" when all they mean is that they felt mildly offended or uncomfortable.

    This is the version of trigger warnings that's being instituted at universities. And it's being pushed by students who have no idea what they're talking about. They're not survivors or victim's advocates. They're just haphazardly guessing at what needs a warning, and the results are ridiculous and trivialize the real issues.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It reminds me of how all fragrances get banned in an office bc someone has an intolerance to certain kinds. At what point should the individual bear responsibility for his/her own issue and when does it become a community issue?

    The attempt to make some things a community or global issue seems to happen right off the bat. A few people talk, start petitions online and go to the media over a privileged statue in a supposed safe space and it becomes a National News Story. It's in your face, 24-7. Someone doesn't like phallic symbols on a CD cover (a tree for example), deems it sexist and it is news. They want trigger warnings for sexism.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    This is the version of trigger warnings that's being instituted at universities. And it's being pushed by students who have no idea what they're talking about. They're not survivors or victim's advocates. They're just haphazardly guessing at what needs a warning, and the results are ridiculous and trivialize the real issues.


    Your last sentence is what irritates me the most. I firmly believe it trivializes the real issues into nothingness.

    ETA: People obviously do not stop to think. You have reduced a horrible experience to book worms (pun intended), make a huge deal out of anything that slightly offends you or maybe slightly offends someone you know, demand explanations and apologies, call for things to be changed or banned and you do not expect this to happen to you? I hate it for them if they ever manage to stop being eternally traumatized by a paragraph long enough to create something. Meanwhile, people who have been through some horrific events do not expect a fraction of this and manage to carry on with much more of their dignity in tact.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Sincere question that is on topic in a particular way... you know what i mean.

    I came across some comments on the Sleepwalker situation. Several women (in women's studies) at the college were saying the statue was, quite literally, sexual assault. I can not help getting very frustrated when I hear things like that. I know several women featured in WS are of the radical persuasion and they have very different definitions of violent sexual assault. Take Liz Kelly the author of Surviving Sexual Violence. She defines it as such in her book (and I did triple check to make sure it was not misquoted, though I wish it was):

    "Sexual violence includes any physical, visual, verbal or sexual act that is experienced by the woman or girl, at the time or later, as a threat, invasion or assault that has the effect of hurting her or degrading her and/or taken away her ability to control intimate contact"

    Is this real? Is this a part of the problem? *I already know my answer. As someone who has woken up after being knocked out with force, felt what was done to my body, and seen the blood... damn skippy this is a problem. **Apparently, definitions like this have also been used to document instances of rape on college campuses and sky rocketed the numbers up to 80 some % of women have been victims of sexual violence/assault. A large majority reported were verbal or visual offenses. That does nothing but confuse and cover up the actual, physical, rape cases. This woman is or was a professor of women's studies in the UK. I have came across several definitions like this in women's studies classes. Something visual that might offend you later?
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I am glad this was not offered at my school. I would have never made it. Nooooo. Eye rape, now or later? *I am not trying to be funny. I promise but I have to say I have heard of the "Feminist Lens" and I think it is highly misused in this case.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It reminds me of how all fragrances get banned in an office bc someone has an intolerance to certain kinds. At what point should the individual bear responsibility for his/her own issue and when does it become a community issue?

    So you regard someone having an anaphylactic episode or an asthmatic attack which can physically kill them, the same as someone having an anxiety/panic attack, which they say feels like they are dying?

    Both actually become community issues for different reasons unless you aren't bothered about seeing someone possibly dying in front of you, or someone in severe distress in front of you.

    With the latter the person will have to learn coping mechanisms for their triggers as avoidance doesn't work forever, but with anaphylaxis/asthma this isn't really possible.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    In triage, someone having a panic attacks is much lower on the scale. Still important, but not an emergency and not something you put before more asthma or any number of other situations.

    What I do not get is the lack to help provide those skills. Someone can not wave a wand and take care of it for you (fix it or make it disappear) but it seems like some resign to this is fate, and avoid. That cripples, and is a horrible definition of helping. And this is of course talking about people who actually have a serious reaction, not just an offense.

    *Brief rant... I come across so many saying things like, "The victim will never heal so we have to shield them and speak for them. They can't speak because they do not see things clearly or know what they need. They are not educated on the matter, only we are." If this is educated, we are screwed.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • PerriPPerriP Posts: 6,613Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It reminds me of how all fragrances get banned in an office bc someone has an intolerance to certain kinds. At what point should the individual bear responsibility for his/her own issue and when does it become a community issue?

    These tend to be physical responses, like an asthma attack, migraine etc. Like an allergy. It's not something you can "learn to deal with". I have never asked anyone at work to not wear perfume but I do ask them not to use it near me (this includes air freshener, scented lotions and hairspray). I will have to leave an area if it's too strong for me. I had one co-worker who would put on perfume several times a day in the middle of the office and just announce "it's not my fault Perri doesn't like the smell of pretty things" it isn't a like or dislike.

    Obviously I'm touchy about this one :)
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  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    PerriP wrote: »
    It reminds me of how all fragrances get banned in an office bc someone has an intolerance to certain kinds. At what point should the individual bear responsibility for his/her own issue and when does it become a community issue?

    These tend to be physical responses, like an asthma attack, migraine etc. Like an allergy. It's not something you can "learn to deal with". I have never asked anyone at work to not wear perfume but I do ask them not to use it near me (this includes air freshener, scented lotions and hairspray). I will have to leave an area if it's too strong for me. I had one co-worker who would out on perfume several times a day in the middle of the office and just announce "it's not my fault Perri doesn't like the smell of pretty things" it isn't a like or dislike.

    Obviously I'm touchy about this one :)

    I'm touchy as well as I have an allergy, I have an intolerance and I've had panic attacks.

    I know what one can kill me and what 2 are/were inconvenient.

    I also have family and friends who walk around with epipens.

    I actually challenge people who say they have an "allergy" or "intolerance" to explain what it is and their reaction. There are some people with food dislikes who claim to have an "allergy" or "intolerance".

    I also challenge those who minimise their swollen lips etc after eating something with say nuts on it.

    With my intolerance it's unpleasant for me and those around me.

    People use to ignore my dairy intolerance thinking it only affected me but it affects their environment as well. Smelling someone going through the stages of diarrhea which starts of with passing foul wind which can last a few hours isn't pleasant for the other people in that environment.

    I am being graphic because people think that someone asking them not to put y in food or to wear x is an inconvenience, when if they are around that person for 8 or so hours they will suffer more inconvenience themselves, and in the case of watching someone with anythalaxis/breathing difficulties can be traumatised.
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Back on topic claiming a naked or semi-clad statue represents "sexual violence" is similar to claiming because you don't like a fragence you have an "interolance".

    They both end up minimising the effects of the real thing.

    In the case of WS this stance has made some of the well-informed people I know including a couple who openly claim they are feminists disregard it as serious subject.

    I shudder to think what would have been said if the statue was of a female in her summer night clothes.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I think praises would have been sang if he would have used the woman sleepwalker, given that it is an all women's campus. He has one. The gender or color was of no issue to the artist. Being out of place, lost, etc. was the main focus of the piece. There is a seeing eye dog without a person on the other side of the campus :) Of course people will project their own things on it, but several of the reactions were going too far and minimizing.

    ^ I saw several examples of the same type of thing in CC's thread about advertisements. Sexist string cheese and glue sticks.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I shared this is a different thread and I will share it here too, because I feel it relates in specific cases.

    http://rainn.org/images/03-2014/WH-Task-Force-RAINN-Recommendations.pdf

    RAINN sent this to the White House Task Force on Sexual Assault. It is plan and has several good points. One being that definitions used to educate students on campus do not coincide with actual law. This helps aid in a great deal of confusion. I think including verbal abuse, harassment and threats in a definition of violent sexual assault is a large part of the problem. On top of that you have things added that state anything that visually offends you. None of this has anything to do with violent sexual assault.

    On top of that the definitions of consent given to students are incredibly blurry ones. One glass of wine or one beer makes a woman unable to consent to sex. If she drinks a beer and willingly has sex, it's still rape. No one, and I mean no one, should attempt to have sex with a blitzed person who can not speak let alone anything else BUT no one should act like a woman completely loses her voice and mind after one simple beverage. Tolerance is not universal among women, and some definitions are far more strict and confusing than this. Some suggest no woman can ever consent to heterosexual intercourse because the act alone is violent. Again, Due to the violent sexual assault definitions given, you also run across issues with the "now or later" when applied to consent.

    On the severe end of the spectrum, you end up with some women sincerely thinking inanimate objects are assaulting them. You end up with several claiming offense is a crime and you end up with many not understanding our laws and therefore feeling the system is out to get them. And of course, you end up with trigger warnings on everything.


    * Side note: I would love it if people would stress that your 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 stats (which several say is still too high and that makes sense given some definitions used to measure in some cases) still equals 75-80% (what ever based on nbrs use) do not commit an act of sexual violence.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ^
    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5247267

    Reports of rape cases on campuses shot up from 17 in 2012 to 30 in 2013 to 37 in the first half of 2014 alone. That does explain why rights groups jumped in. It seems like the same stuff that has gone on in the UK.

    I understand why a few universities have been protesting special interest groups on their campus.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    This looks like an interesting site. It is a Civil Rights group called Fire. They work in schools and are trying to protect freedom of speech on campus (this deals with TW and claims that specific songs/statues promote rape culture and sexual assault) and are also dealing with suspicious dismissals from schools due to rape claims. They keep track of law suits from students who were dismissed with no or countering evidence.

    http://www.thefire.org/

    From the intro to one story, an open letter on campus: sexual assault.

    A female student interviewed recently during an investigation had spread rumors by social media that she had been raped by a male student. When the rumors got back to the male student, he approached her about it, and she offered him a lengthy apology, and then put it in writing. We had to investigate nevertheless, and she told us that they’d had a drunken hook-up that she consented to. She was fine with what happened. We asked her why she called it a rape then, and she said, “you know, because we were drunk. It wasn’t rape, it was just rapey rape.” We asked her if she was aware of what spreading such an accusation might do to the young man’s reputation, and her response was “everyone knows it wasn’t really a rape, we just call it that when we’re drunk or high.”
    […]


    There are far worse examples on there with texting histories that dismiss claims :(
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    ^ Dang! Watched some different videos and... :-/ I like any org that represents the right and left leaning and keeps check on those swimming way out in the ocean on both sides. *Really, everyone in between as well. I don't get all the broad statements like only republicans or christians or own guns. No gay person believes in God, etc. You've never really talked to anyone, have you?* I hardly recognize my party anymore (D) because I need binoculars to see them.

    I happen to agree with a shared sentiment that when one becomes hysterically PC, you are calling people weak and acting as if they are unable to handle things in the name of protecting them. You are doing more harm. Really you are just trying to eliminate other views. If you want that, you are in the wrong country.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

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  • butter52butter52 Posts: 292Registered Users
    I have the feeling there is a root problem. And overprotecting people and creating a culture of entitlement to shaming and guilting everyone about whatever little thing is useless and anoying and wont solve the problem.

    If there is so many people with PTSD they should be helped to get over it and more cases should be prevented, and puting trigger warnings is not helping them.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    butter52 wrote: »
    I have the feeling there is a root problem. And overprotecting people and creating a culture of entitlement to shaming and guilting everyone about whatever little thing is useless and anoying and wont solve the problem.

    If there is so many people with PTSD they should be helped to get over it and more cases should be prevented, and puting trigger warnings is not helping them.


    I completely agree. The Artist who created the statue said he hoped it would illicit empathy from people, especially when taking in the whole context with the dog. He urged people to help those who might consider the statue itself sexual assault. Not help them ban/avoid/demand others do what they want, make allegations because it is just one opinion and it helps no one deal with life. Just get them some help.

    The sensitivity issue is stifling. Schools try to cater to every little whimper, and in turn they are suppressing human rights. No logic or reason is being used. I truly enjoyed one video in the link I posted. A man told stories of the atmosphere in the 60's. Numerous groups wailing. People free to state their thoughts and not be policed or attacked for it. People living together and learning how to coexist. People fighting against the policing of others thoughts in a country with free speech. Today it is point and cry until it is moved from eye sight rather than moving around it yourself.

    It seems to be a thing to get on Tumblr and self diagnosis yourself with every phobia in the world and then demand others bend to your will. "I have a phobia of holes, foxes, turtles, badgers, pantyhose, neck beards, onions, men, women, statues, the color orange. Do away with it now because it offends people." If not, threaten and attack them. It's spreading to the streets and now courts of law are getting involved. I don't how how this is called social justice. It is an insult to some people who have done thoughtful and beautiful work over the years.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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