Updated -Fine 2C - looks either frizzy or limp

LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
Hello all..

So...I'm a 2c with (gasp) permed hair. Newly permed hair (2 weeks out) and I feel all confused inside like I'm going through puberty all over again.

My hair is FINE. Hence the reason for the curl- it really helps with fullness. I live in the desert- so basically no humidity.

When wet, my hair has very good curls. More s-waves than corkscrews (darn) but still curly. As the day goes on, it looks more and more stringier and almost straight in areas.

A friend told me I was conditioning too much, so I've tried to lighten up on that. I've tried doing CG, but the curls aren't holding well. I'm buying products like crazy...but, at the end of the day, my hair almost feels...grungy? Grungy and stringy?

I honestly feel lost and don't know how to take care of it anymore! I wash (a sulfate shampoo), just wet, or co-wash (trader joes tea tree), depending on the day. I've had a CG friendly gel that is bleh. I've tried mouse and also cone filled products. Still...stringy.

The picture doesn't really show it at its stringy glory. That was probably a good day. If I just have "wavy" hair-- which is totally fine-- I can't figure out how to do it so that it looks fabulous instead of eh.

Anyone have any ideas?
Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

Desert-dweller.

Currently using and figuring out:
Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.

Comments

  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    What products have you tried?
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    Hopefully, I can remember them all...

    -Trader Joe's tea tree conditioner (tried cowash and just on the ends)
    -Ion Daily solutions styling gel (has been the one I've used most often) - just blah results
    -Herbal Essence totally twisted mousse (left crunchies)
    -Redkin all soft shampoo (my old shampoo that I loved with straight hair)
    -Shea moisture curl enhancing smoothie (tried once and made hair limp)
    -Tigi Catwalk burlesque (tried one, no good)
    -Pantene 24 hour weightless volume gel (have in hair right now. A bit crunchy but curls are more defined).

    I'm just having trouble figuring out the right products (obviously) with the right technique (such as diffusing? Not so working for me.)

    I thought I'd be able to figure this out...but...no
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    Hopefully, I can remember them all...

    -Trader Joe's tea tree conditioner (tried cowash and just on the ends)
    -Ion Daily solutions styling gel (has been the one I've used most often) - just blah results
    -Herbal Essence totally twisted mousse (left crunchies)
    -Redkin all soft shampoo (my old shampoo that I loved with straight hair)
    -Shea moisture curl enhancing smoothie (tried once and made hair limp)
    -Tigi Catwalk burlesque (tried one, no good)
    -Pantene 24 hour weightless volume gel (have in hair right now. A bit crunchy but curls are more defined).

    I'm just having trouble figuring out the right products (obviously) with the right technique (such as diffusing? Not so working for me.)

    I thought I'd be able to figure this out...but...no

    OK, on "crunchies" Do you scrunch out the crunch at all? Most products with hold is going to give you some level of crunch and you kind of want that as it gives you bouncier hair.

    Redkin is probably, going to have silicones in it. Some people go back to silicones in some products once they have a routine down but I'd really kind of try CG first and no cones. Many wavies cannot do co-washing much, and go with low poo. Shea Moisture poos, or even higher end ones are most common. OR you can really take a sulfate shampoo and dilute it. Any old cheapie sulfate shampoo will do.

    I love SM smoothie **in the tiniest amount** on my ends for a leave in or to scrunch out the crunch. USE SPARINGLY on wavy loose curl. Work your way up (actually that may be good for about any product although it's hard to overuse FSG).

    Tigi Catwalk is soooo heavy. Yeah, not a fan.

    Pantene is again going to have cones in it.

    I personally think for a styler, one of the first things you should try is a flax seed gel. You can make it at home so its cheap cheap cheap. Videos on How tos all over youtube. Truly, a very universal awesome styler. You can also order on Etsy from Sweet Curls if you don't want to try making it, but you kind of don't have anything to lose trying to make it.

    I would pick up a cheap LA Looks gel from the Dollar General to experiment mixing it or layering it with a less hold gel like FSG.

    If you ever dye or highlight or have been applying heat to your hair and especially if it is fine, you probably need a protien treatment and some deep conditioning. A nice dose is had of both from Ion Effective Care from Sally's (and since you have an Ion product you probably have a Sally's.)

    You live in a dewpointless environment so one of your best friends will be conditioning no matter what your friend said. I would highly suspect your major issue may be not enough protein.

    Does any of this help?
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    Yes, it does. I tried to Protein last night, but my gelatin was expired and it was late so I used it anyway. It worked a bit this morning but probably not as fully as it could have.

    Right now, at night, the dewpoint is about 20...so yes, very low here. Humidity same number.

    Could over-gelling be causing just the general greasiness? I do scrunch (upside down) though there's just some crunchies that never go away, no matter what. I put in an obscene amount of gel trying to get things to go the right way.

    I tried conditioning tonight and gelling upside down, so I'm going to see if that makes a difference.

    Thank you so much for the recommendation of flaxseed oil. I'm going to look into it.

    I appreciate any and all help given!
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    Yes, it does. I tried to Protein last night, but my gelatin was expired and it was late so I used it anyway. It worked a bit this morning but probably not as fully as it could have.

    Right now, at night, the dewpoint is about 20...so yes, very low here. Humidity same number.

    Could over-gelling be causing just the general greasiness? I do scrunch (upside down) though there's just some crunchies that never go away, no matter what. I put in an obscene amount of gel trying to get things to go the right way.

    I tried conditioning tonight and gelling upside down, so I'm going to see if that makes a difference.

    Thank you so much for the recommendation of flaxseed oil. I'm going to look into it.

    I appreciate any and all help given!

    Make sure it's flaxseed GEL! Not oil. Basic recipe is flax seeds boiled in water. You can add additional ingredients as you like, but always just a tiny amount. You can really just use it plain. I really think some of this is using gels that may not be right for you and as I said, more protein. If you think the gel is causing you to be producty, back off and increase incrementally.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    Oh and because some of your products have silicones in them, you need to at least be using a diluted sulfate shampoo to ket it out or it can also eventually cause a greasy look.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    I'm not 100% sure the Pantene has a cone in it...I read the label and none jumped out. But definitely want to look into the flaxseed gel!
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    Pretty sure Pantene will have a cone. All their products do.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    Luckily, it was only $3 or so! Not too much harm done.

    One more quick question (and thank you for the help)- -- how often should I condition, considering my hair is #1 super fine, #2 wavy and #3 in the desert. Is this an every couple days thing or every day?
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    Luckily, it was only $3 or so! Not too much harm done.

    One more quick question (and thank you for the help)- -- how often should I condition, considering my hair is #1 super fine, #2 wavy and #3 in the desert. Is this an every couple days thing or every day?

    Well, Scott Musgrave says in winter with super low dewpoints at least once a week. I think you kind of have to just judge by your hair. You might start there and see how it goes. (You mean deep condition right? I'd sure be doing a rinse out at least everytime you wash.)
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Registered Users Posts: 477
    In the desert, you'll have really low dewpoints most of the year. (I used to live in AZ, so I can relate! But winter here in WI is like a desert, LOL - we get negative dews on a regular basis.) A lot of curlies will recommend sealing with an oil (see the LOC or LCO method). My (fine) hair and (picky) skin personally don't like oils, so winter here is challenging.

    There's a lot of reading around here that is super helpful, but it is a lot of information to digest :idea1:

    You'll also want to avoid a lot of strong humectants, which can pull moisture out of your strands. Glycerin will probably be a no-no; you'll have to see what other humectants do for/to you.

    I started CG in the wintertime, I couldn't believe how dry and stringy my hair was getting, since I was using a mousse with propylene glycol in it. Here's what ultimately helped me whip my hair into better shape in low dewpoints and not using oils or butters:

    The spritz and condish method (basically slathering your hair with conditioner before washing, like a pre-poo). This saved my hair's bacon. I still try to do this about once a week if I think about it. I don't actually deep condition, and it doesn't seem to matter what conditioner I use. Usually I am using up something I bought and didn't turn out liking for everyday use, haha!

    My homemade flax seed gel (I make a really basic recipe with not much added to it). chupie is right - that stuff rocks big time!

    Styling products low in humectants, except in normal dewpoints (40-60). This is a lot of trial and error, unfortunately. A lot of curlies like Aussie Instant Freeze gel, for example, but I've never been able to make it work for me. I think my hair objects to laureth-x, it's in another styler that I want to make work for me but it just ends up a little frizzy and blah. Oh well. I don't invest a lot of $$ into styling products, and I'm not afraid to return to Target if I have to.

    One thing I experimented with over a week this winter was using a leave-in conditioner with bisaminopropyldimethicone in it - a functionalized silicone that deposits a layer on the hair but does not build up on itself, and can be removed with a Cocamidopropyl Betaine containing shampoo. This is like sealing your hair, but without the oils that make my skin unhappy. I may return to this experiment this summer if/when the dewpoints get too high for me. My curl is already pretty wimpy in low dew points, but this really helped me out a lot. I'm already mod-CG with the lo-pooing in the first place, so I'm getting to the point where I don't mind a mild cone here or there if it helps my hair make it through a difficult spot.

    One of my mousses, the Clairol 3-in-1, has a water soluble cone in it and is completely CG. You might try some stylers like that as sealers. But I think the stringiness you might be experiencing has a lot to do with thirsty hair - I know mine was thirtsy when I was getting started.

    Good luck - it is a lot of trial and error but if you can focus on getting your hair healthy (drop the sulfate shampoo, get some moisture back into your hair and keep it there) it is probably half the battle.

    Welcome aboard :blah5:
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    It is a lot to take in. More than I thought. After reading the curly girl book, I honestly felt it was like "Hey! Condition, gel and scrunch!"

    And then....no.

    I haven't really deep conditioned yet (See: Friend telling me I over-conditioned, which backed me off of it). If my hair is stringy from no-condition, it probably wouldn't hurt to condition for awhile until I'm seeing results?
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Registered Users Posts: 477
    I can't seem to overcondition my hair... I think.

    If you search the forums for overconditioned hair, you'll find that it feels/looks different for different people. When I first started lurking around the forums I read so much information it made my head spin. But - it is worth it to research things thoroughly and do a little experimenting.

    I experiment slowly, and on the cheap. And after 18 months and 2 winters, I think I've figured out what works for me. At least until the season changes again!

    Another thing about fine hair - it likes a little protein (in general). I use protein in my conditioners and styling products - but there's a balance of moisture that goes along with it. Most of my moisture comes from my conditioning routine and less from my stylers (my hair gets weighed down easily).

    Use a conditioner daily, every time you wash, and maybe try one with a little protein to see if you like it. I highly recommend VO5 Kiwi Lime; it's less than $1, I can use it as a cowash and a rinse out (I'm off leave in right now to see if it makes a difference for me) and if your hair hates it, you're only out $1 :toothy4: A lot of fine haired wavies like it. If your hair hates protein you will know it - it will feel tangly and straw-like. But mine feels smooth and happy.

    But keep reading, and if it helps you to keep a journal to keep track of what you're experimenting with, all the better. Be patient. (The biggest lesson I learned in taking better care of my hair was patience.) Hair properties are everything. If you can find a person with properties similar to yours, find out what they are doing and see if it works for you! :thumbleft:
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    I really like the v05 kiwi lime too. Both for rinse out and heave in. Though I needed a richer rinse out this winter. Still made a good leave in.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • Geek_ChicGeek_Chic Registered Users Posts: 1,275 Curl Connoisseur
    I'm not 100% sure the Pantene has a cone in it...I read the label and none jumped out. But definitely want to look into the flaxseed gel!
    chupie wrote: »
    Pretty sure Pantene will have a cone. All their products do.

    If these ingredients for the Pantene 24 Hour Volume gel are correct, it's silicone free. However it does contain some humectants (Laureth 23 and Panthenol), which could dry out your hair in low dewpoints.

    Ingredients: Water, Laureth 23, PVP, Acrylates/Beheneth 25 Methacrylate Copolymer, Benzyl Alcohol, Amino Methyl Propanol, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance, Disodium EDTA, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Panthenol
    CG since 11/2011
    2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

    Go To Products /Routine:
    Clarifying: Suave Essentials Strawberry
    Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
    CO: Suave Essentials Strawberry, V05 Kiwi Lime
    RO /LI: Tresemme Perfectly (un)Done, Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze, Suave Essentials Strawberry, Renpure Brazilian Keratin (old formula)
    Stylers: LALSG, AIF, HETT, Suave Professionals Firm Control
    PT: IAGirl's as needed
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    SpiralHam wrote: »
    I can't seem to overcondition my hair... I think.

    If you search the forums for overconditioned hair, you'll find that it feels/looks different for different people. When I first started lurking around the forums I read so much information it made my head spin. But - it is worth it to research things thoroughly and do a little experimenting.

    I experiment slowly, and on the cheap. And after 18 months and 2 winters, I think I've figured out what works for me. At least until the season changes again!

    Another thing about fine hair - it likes a little protein (in general). I use protein in my conditioners and styling products - but there's a balance of moisture that goes along with it. Most of my moisture comes from my conditioning routine and less from my stylers (my hair gets weighed down easily).

    Use a conditioner daily, every time you wash, and maybe try one with a little protein to see if you like it. I highly recommend VO5 Kiwi Lime; it's less than $1, I can use it as a cowash and a rinse out (I'm off leave in right now to see if it makes a difference for me) and if your hair hates it, you're only out $1 :toothy4: A lot of fine haired wavies like it. If your hair hates protein you will know it - it will feel tangly and straw-like. But mine feels smooth and happy.

    But keep reading, and if it helps you to keep a journal to keep track of what you're experimenting with, all the better. Be patient. (The biggest lesson I learned in taking better care of my hair was patience.) Hair properties are everything. If you can find a person with properties similar to yours, find out what they are doing and see if it works for you! :thumbleft:

    I just had to share that your screen name is cracking me up. :laughing9:
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    Geek_Chic wrote: »

    If these ingredients for the Pantene 24 Hour Volume gel are correct, it's silicone free. However it does contain some humectants (Laureth 23 and Panthenol), which could dry out your hair in low dewpoints.

    Ingredients: Water, Laureth 23, PVP, Acrylates/Beheneth 25 Methacrylate Copolymer, Benzyl Alcohol, Amino Methyl Propanol, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance, Disodium EDTA, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Panthenol

    I finally read a label somewhat correct? WOOHOO!
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Registered Users Posts: 477
    I just had to share that your screen name is cracking me up. :laughing9:[/QUOTE]

    Heh, then my job here is complete!
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • wavydazewavydaze Registered Users Posts: 2,065 Curl Novice
    If your hair is fine and chemically altered it will benefit from protein ROs and/or leave-ins and protein treatmnets
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    OK...so I did a protein gelatin treatment. I've been conditioning (a pre-poo on wettish hair with Mane & Tail that has protein) and then using a wash out conditioner-- had both Burts Bees conditioner and then a flaxseed gel.

    I've used SO MUCH (seaweed and squishy) of the flaxseed but still, by the end of the day, the curls are half straight, half curly.

    But...the frizzies look much better.
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • CallyCally Registered Users Posts: 58
    What worked pretty well in the winter for me was AG recoil and AG mouse gel. They aren't totally CG approved if I can remember. Most gels have humectants in them which dry out hair in low dews. This was a good alternative for me, I felt I got pretty good curl formation and hold. Protein treatments really helped revive my curls in the winter too.
    Fine 2c-3a Curls
    Normal porosity/ Medium density
    Henna over color-treated hair
    Not currently CG :(
    Poo: Pureology hydrate
    RO: Pureology hydrate
    LI: HSH Tri-wheat spray
    DT: Coconut oil
    PT: Henna/Cassia
    Styler: AG recoil/mousse-gel
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    It won't change overnight. Keep going.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    I promised my hair that I would buy it a pony. Or a puppy.

    I did see some more curl formation in there, so there's hope. I have CG mouse-- but does mouse hold better than gel?

    I'm glad I listened on the conditioner. I'm seeing (slow) results!
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Registered Users Posts: 477
    FSG doesn't have enough hold for my fine hair by itself, so I have to top it or mix it with something stronger.

    I think there are more gels with strong hold than there are mousses (although I like mousse better). I tend to need more mousse than I think I should be using.

    This winter, in low dews, I had great success with Suave Professional's Volumizing mousse (silver can, purple top). It isn't loaded with humectants, has decent hold, collagen protein (which my hair adores) and is alcohol free (and cheap!). It also worked well for me over FSG.

    You can do a search for humectant free gels and mousses. You can learn more about humectants here and learn what to avoid.

    Keep being patient!
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    I wanted to add an update to this-- after reading and re-reading and listening to all your (wonderful) suggestions....IT IS WORKING!

    Conditioner is my friend. So is protein.

    Here's an updated photo (compared to the one at the beginning).

    Before:
    hair.jpg

    After:
    hair update.jpg

    Not perfect, but I see an improvement. Thank you all for your help!
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    Oo nice!!
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Registered Users Posts: 477
    Beautiful! I wish I had those straighter ends to my waves; I like a blunt style but my hair and my face shape don't, hah.

    It took a good 6 months of going CG for me to see what my hair was really like. Now, 18 months or so after going CG, it's about as consistent as it's going to get. Keep up the good work!
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    So it might actually keep changing a bit? Feel like I'm learning something new every day.
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • SpiralHamSpiralHam Registered Users Posts: 477
    Mine continued to change in small ways for a long time - and continues to behave differently at various lengths and weather patterns. What a roller coaster!

    I think I'm getting close to determining its optimal length, though (I love the idea of shorter hair but it doesn't always look good too short, and I tend to get fed up with it the longer it gets; I miss my bangs but realize it's probably a bad idea), and thinking that a curly cut will be best for my crazy different wave and curl patterns. For me it's taking time and patience, good thing I'm halfway decent at both :blah5:
    Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

    :thumbleft: collagen
    :thumbdown: humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

    poos: Giovanni TTT, WF365FF, Suave Clarifying
    condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
    stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, VolumaxMega, AIF, GFPC


    Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands :laughing6:

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