Can't seem to manage moisture

FlaCamperFlaCamper Registered Users Posts: 27
Please be patient, I'm new here :-)

I'm getting so confused and frustrated. I seem to have two choices: I can have limp, soft and frizzy hair without styling products, or I can have limp, oily-feeling, stringy hair with them. I'm very oily in general, and living in Central Florida with warm, moist air doesnt help. Also my hair is fine, and I believe, normal-to-low porosity.

When I first tried to go CG a year and a half ago, I tried cowashing and skipping a day of washing, and both options were just too greasy and uncomfortable to continue. So I use sulfate free shampoo each morning. My hair seems gummy/stringy and limp. I know it CAN be much bouncier and wavier/curlier -- two winters ago I hit a hot streak of great hair days, i guess when humidity was lower. But for a year now I can't seem to find the right combo of products and I have no idea what to try.

I've had a couple additional setbacks. Late December I got a horrible haircut in which my hair was cut to chin length at its longest layer; it was a total hack job, chunky and uneven, and my waves vanished. It's growing out now and see more waves and curls trying to emerge. I also got fed up and went back to sulfates and straightening it for a month or two. None of this helps.

But today for example, I washed with Burt's Bees pomegranate shampoo and followed with Suave Naturals Coconut (rinsed out) and my hair felt clean and soft and happy. I used Suave Captivating Curls mousse after, and it felt light and I was hopeful... But even though it still feels soft, and not especially oily, it's still limp with a light halo of frizz.

I don't know if I'm over moisturized, or under moisturized (seems unlikely), or... or what. Any ideas?
Living in Florida with the rockets and the alligators! :sunny:

2b/2c/3a, fine, low/normal porosity
Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Threat
RO: Suave Naturals Coconut or SM Smooth&Repair (if I use RO at all.)
LI: It's a 10 (contains cones, but I clarify now and then)
Styling: GF Curl Shaping Gel

*Fair warning... This regimen does not seem to work quite right!*

Comments

  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Registered Users Posts: 2,573 Curl Neophyte
    Have you read Live Curly, Live Free by Tiffany Anderson? I think you would probably find it quite helpful.

    The short answer is that I suspect that you probably need to low-poo, pull back on conditioning, and use a gel, such as LA Looks Sports Gel. However, I do strongly recommend reading Live Curly, Live Free, keeping your hair properties in mind.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • FlaCamperFlaCamper Registered Users Posts: 27
    I came across it the other day but didn't purchase it yet. Since Curly Girl was a mixed bag for me -- I just don't have parched, thirsty curls -- I wasn't sure if I'd get much out of it. But it sounds like it's worth a try.

    Will skip the condish tomorrow and see if I have better luck. Thanks!!
    Living in Florida with the rockets and the alligators! :sunny:

    2b/2c/3a, fine, low/normal porosity
    Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Threat
    RO: Suave Naturals Coconut or SM Smooth&Repair (if I use RO at all.)
    LI: It's a 10 (contains cones, but I clarify now and then)
    Styling: GF Curl Shaping Gel

    *Fair warning... This regimen does not seem to work quite right!*
  • ashlyndmarieashlyndmarie Registered Users Posts: 211
    Since you described gummy/stringy hair. ...have you considered a protein treatment?

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App
  • wavydazewavydaze Registered Users Posts: 2,065 Curl Novice
    Since you described gummy/stringy hair. ...have you considered a protein treatment?

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App

    BINGO!

    You have fine hair. Fine hair likes protein. I'd recommend PT-ing regularly and maybe using a rinse-out with hydrolized protein (not the amino acids in the Suave). Try something like Cure Care, equally cheap.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • FlaCamperFlaCamper Registered Users Posts: 27
    Ashlynd and Wavy -- I was wondering if some sort of PT would help. This morning I washed with my Burt's Bees, skipped condish and went straight to gel... and it's the same result. :banghead:

    So maybe it is time to give protein a try. Next step is to figure out what products are suitable, then where to find them. I'm pretty sure I can get hold of some It's a 10 Miracle Keratin blah-blah... but really I'm still trying to get my mind around (1) all the chemistry involved and then (2) where I can find certain products. I've never even seen Cure Care and am not sure where to look!

    Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it! (Oh, and I did follow Morgan's advice last night and bought the LCLF ebook.)
    Living in Florida with the rockets and the alligators! :sunny:

    2b/2c/3a, fine, low/normal porosity
    Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Threat
    RO: Suave Naturals Coconut or SM Smooth&Repair (if I use RO at all.)
    LI: It's a 10 (contains cones, but I clarify now and then)
    Styling: GF Curl Shaping Gel

    *Fair warning... This regimen does not seem to work quite right!*
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    Cure care is at
    Sally's. They have a good selection if CG products. It's a 10 isn't
    Strictly cg. It has a (not too unfriendly) come. If you go to Sally's I really like Ion Effective Care as A light protein treatment product. Just use it as a rinse out or deep treatment (just leave it longer).
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • FlaCamperFlaCamper Registered Users Posts: 27
    Hmm. There is a Sally's, but it's across town... I might have to save a trip there for a weekend. It's easiest if I can find something at Target (I know, not the best place to look). It's so hard to figure out what I am looking for. There are so many different proteins, and since I am looking more for strengthening than hydrating, that seems to be even more limiting.

    Does it ever stop being guesswork? I feel like I have to be a chemist, and I got C's in chemistry... :/
    Living in Florida with the rockets and the alligators! :sunny:

    2b/2c/3a, fine, low/normal porosity
    Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Threat
    RO: Suave Naturals Coconut or SM Smooth&Repair (if I use RO at all.)
    LI: It's a 10 (contains cones, but I clarify now and then)
    Styling: GF Curl Shaping Gel

    *Fair warning... This regimen does not seem to work quite right!*
  • chupiechupie Registered Users Posts: 5,280 Curl Connoisseur
    Target has Tresseme Naturals, Jane Carter Wrap and Roll a good mousse (way better than captivating curls), also I hear her curl defining cream is nice. There are also Shea Moisture products. Those are some things I'd Look at.
    2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLy8bclCLgER5N_uVYSYZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Registered Users Posts: 2,573 Curl Neophyte
    Are you using a gel? (Edited to say that I see downstream that you are. Sorry about that.) That's particularly important in high dew points, even if you just use a small (such as a dime or nickel sized) amount of gel. Then use an even smaller, truly scant amount of gel when you SOTC.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • FlaCamperFlaCamper Registered Users Posts: 27
    Yeah, I used to have much better success with gel than I seem to anymore. But it's really flyaway and halo-y without gel.

    My Target must be lacking. I found very little in the way of protein treatments that didn't contain cones. There's Shea Moisture smooth and repair RO w/keratin, I got that, although I worry it's going to over-moisturize me more. There was an It's a 10 leave-in plus keratin that I now see contains cyclopentasiloxane which I guess is an eeeeville cone, dangit. I think I can't win at Target. Ugh. I'll have to go to Sally soon.
    Living in Florida with the rockets and the alligators! :sunny:

    2b/2c/3a, fine, low/normal porosity
    Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Threat
    RO: Suave Naturals Coconut or SM Smooth&Repair (if I use RO at all.)
    LI: It's a 10 (contains cones, but I clarify now and then)
    Styling: GF Curl Shaping Gel

    *Fair warning... This regimen does not seem to work quite right!*
  • BeinDebBeinDeb Registered Users Posts: 583 Curl Connoisseur
    I too, think a protein treatment would benefit you greatly.
    On the cheap and available at any grocery store...
    gelatin recipe.

    Science-y Hair Blog: Recipes and Projects
  • FlaCamperFlaCamper Registered Users Posts: 27
    Picked up some gelatin and gave IAGirl's treatment a try. I'm not sure how it went, since it's late and I didn't use gel or leave-in since I'm going to bed in a little bit. Guess I will see tomorrow if it helps. I hope so! Wish me luck...
    Living in Florida with the rockets and the alligators! :sunny:

    2b/2c/3a, fine, low/normal porosity
    Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Threat
    RO: Suave Naturals Coconut or SM Smooth&Repair (if I use RO at all.)
    LI: It's a 10 (contains cones, but I clarify now and then)
    Styling: GF Curl Shaping Gel

    *Fair warning... This regimen does not seem to work quite right!*
  • wavydazewavydaze Registered Users Posts: 2,065 Curl Novice
    IAgirl's gelatine PT is lovely! Hope you like it.

    Giovanni Smooth as Silk conditioner has hydrolized soy protein, available at Target. I use it in my rotation as RO, sometimes LI.

    Cure Care can be found at Sally's. I don't like the Ion PT at all, it wasn't nearly enough protein for my fine hair. Also available at Sally's is Colorful Neutral Protein Filler, which can be added to a conditioner you already have, to FSG if you make it or any other styler, you can put it in a spray bottle and make a protein spray with it... you can also use it as a PT. Very versatile. Recommended.

    Another amazing PT is CJ's Repair Me. It is pricey though.

    Don't get the SM for protein because none of it is hydrolized. I didn't know any of the TN conditioners had protein..... but you could add CNPF to them if you want.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • FlaCamperFlaCamper Registered Users Posts: 27
    IAGirl's recipe certainly was quick, easy and inexpensive. I don't notice much different today, BUT the recipe says to use only half the gelatin the first time, so that could be why. Overall, after ~3 days of using GTTT shampoo, skipping RO, using the leave-in with keratin (will deal with cones later) followed by gel, I am seeing a little more curl and feeling less oil and mush. So this must be the right track! Whew!

    So -- how often should PT be done, just as often as it seems necessary?

    Thanks for everyone's input and patience!
    Living in Florida with the rockets and the alligators! :sunny:

    2b/2c/3a, fine, low/normal porosity
    Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Threat
    RO: Suave Naturals Coconut or SM Smooth&Repair (if I use RO at all.)
    LI: It's a 10 (contains cones, but I clarify now and then)
    Styling: GF Curl Shaping Gel

    *Fair warning... This regimen does not seem to work quite right!*
  • wavydazewavydaze Registered Users Posts: 2,065 Curl Novice
    FlaCamper wrote: »
    IAGirl's recipe certainly was quick, easy and inexpensive. I don't notice much different today, BUT the recipe says to use only half the gelatin the first time, so that could be why. Overall, after ~3 days of using GTTT shampoo, skipping RO, using the leave-in with keratin (will deal with cones later) followed by gel, I am seeing a little more curl and feeling less oil and mush. So this must be the right track! Whew!

    So -- how often should PT be done, just as often as it seems necessary?

    Thanks for everyone's input and patience!

    I would do the gelatin PT at full strength, using the full packet. It depends on your properties and dew points how often you need to PT.

    Since you have fine hair, you can do it even weekly. In high dews (during the summer), curlies/wavies with fine hair often report that weekly PTs are the way to go. Every other week can be good too. You'll have to play around and see what frequency of PTs works best for you.

    You can also try using heat to make the PT stronger (like blow dry your hair while the gelatin is in your hair).

    For me, doing PTs weekly is ideal as well, but I get lazy so I do it every other week-ish. But my ROs have hydrolized protein and I often add CNPF to my FSG, so even if I don't do a full treatment, my hair is always getting some protein.

    Hope this helps.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • FlaCamperFlaCamper Registered Users Posts: 27
    I'm looking forward to re-trying the gelatine PT this weekend. In the meantime I'm finding I'm really liking the GTTT and skipping RO entirely. Then I use LI with keratin (also cones) and then gel. That seems to be getting me pretty close to what I want. I am finding that as the day goes on, my hair goes "limper" and seems unevenly stringy.

    I suspect part of this is actually a bad cut growing out... that it may not be a texture problem so much as, as the day goes on (and gel wears off?), the weird layers and poorly cut ends become more obvious and start sticking out. But it does also feel like the hair gets "heavier" through the day. I don't think I'm too heavy handed with the gel but maybe I am? Or maybe without more protei n, the wave/curl clumps just aren't strong enough to hold up under gel all day...?

    Just wondering :-)
    Living in Florida with the rockets and the alligators! :sunny:

    2b/2c/3a, fine, low/normal porosity
    Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Threat
    RO: Suave Naturals Coconut or SM Smooth&Repair (if I use RO at all.)
    LI: It's a 10 (contains cones, but I clarify now and then)
    Styling: GF Curl Shaping Gel

    *Fair warning... This regimen does not seem to work quite right!*
  • LickedCupcakeLickedCupcake Registered Users Posts: 19
    This is the exact same problem I'm having-- except I live in Arizona, where it is definitely NOT humid.

    Right now...it is almost Noon and my hair looks like...:banghead: --- and it feels so greasy and gross and I just want to go and wash it.

    On the days where I get curls...they're gone by mid-afternoon. I feel for you!
    Newly permed, super fine either 2b or 2c (haven't figured that out yet) hair with low density as well.

    Desert-dweller.

    Currently using and figuring out:
    Pre-poo: Mane & tail conditioner
    Low-poo: Burts bee's moisturing shampoo
    Wash out: Either trader joe's tea tree or Burt's Bees moisturing conditioner
    Gel: Still working on figuring it out. Right now, Pantene 24 hr or Flax seed gel.
  • FlaCamperFlaCamper Registered Users Posts: 27
    I actually tried cowashing this week and have been surprised that the result wasn't terribly greasy. I did a PT Saturday night, but a couple times this week I thought my hair felt a bit, I don't know, not soft. Not hard and crunchy like too much PT would be, but it seemed to want some moisture so I tried it. I'm amazed that my scalp and roots aren't oily, although the length/ends seem slightly heavy feeling. (Sometimes I get that anyway and I wonder a little if the gel is part of that problem.) And I have quite the halo frizz, so maybe it is too much moisture... but it FEELS nice even if it maybe looks weird...

    Good luck, I hope you will figure out something! Yeah, all the heat is an added challenge. So are humidity/dew extremes, I guess. Florida air is just hot and soupy most of the year.
    Living in Florida with the rockets and the alligators! :sunny:

    2b/2c/3a, fine, low/normal porosity
    Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Triple Threat
    RO: Suave Naturals Coconut or SM Smooth&Repair (if I use RO at all.)
    LI: It's a 10 (contains cones, but I clarify now and then)
    Styling: GF Curl Shaping Gel

    *Fair warning... This regimen does not seem to work quite right!*
  • mustangbunnymustangbunny Registered Users Posts: 1,033
    This is the exact same problem I'm having-- except I live in Arizona, where it is definitely NOT humid.

    Right now...it is almost Noon and my hair looks like...:banghead: --- and it feels so greasy and gross and I just want to go and wash it.

    On the days where I get curls...they're gone by mid-afternoon. I feel for you!

    I find that protein helps hold my style all day!


    Low-poo: Looking for a new one.
    Condish: V05 Tea Therapy, Body Shop Banana
    Leave in: Giovanni Direct Leave In
    PT: My hair needs very little. I use Suave Naturals Coconut when I need a little bit and follow up with a moisturizing conditioner.
    Styler: Giovanni LA

    Go Red Wings!
    :hockey:

  • wavydazewavydaze Registered Users Posts: 2,065 Curl Novice
    I'm going to add that you probably don't need LI.

    I almost never use LI. Use a rinse-out with protein. Skip LI and go straight to gel.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646

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