CurlTalk

my hair wont clump like it used to? :(

ok so 2 years ago i straightned my hair a few times , foolishly without using heat protector. ever since, ive been trying my hardest to take care of my hair and havent put heat on my hair since. however while looking through an old photo i realized my hair texture had changed. and these photos were taken AFTER i had stopped using the heat fully. , in both photos my hair is wet

why isnt my hair clumping anymore? what can i do to take all that frizz out and have my hair clump together in nice curls like it used to? what is my hair type?
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Comments

  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Do you deep condition? What moisturizers do you use?
  • shutupshelbyshutupshelby Posts: 10Registered Users
    chupie wrote: »
    Do you deep condition? What moisturizers do you use?

    no , i dont deep condition frequently and i use either an oil (jojoba oil, olive oil, sweet almond oil) or giovanni direct leave in
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I guess I'd try some more deep conditions as a first step. I've seen here and the Curly Hair Artistry Guild say at least once a week especially in winter. I'd sure start there.
  • shutupshelbyshutupshelby Posts: 10Registered Users
    chupie wrote: »
    I guess I'd try some more deep conditions as a first step. I've seen here and the Curly Hair Artistry Guild say at least once a week especially in winter. I'd sure start there.

    Thanks so much! i will try that and see how it goes :)
  • AngelaE8654AngelaE8654 Posts: 1,099Banned Users
    I agree with Chupie. I'd deep condition regularly for a while and see if that helps. One thing I recently found that I think is helpful for moisture and preventing damage is Suave Professionals Natural Infusion Awapuhi Ginger and Honeysuckle Light Leave-in Cream. I just recently started using it and I really like it. I co-wash my hair daily (not everyone does this) and I apply this cream before I pin my hair up so I can apply my makeup. Then I take my hair out of the pin and style as normal.

    Amazon.com: Suave Professionals Natural Infusion Awapuhi Ginger and Honeysuckle Light Leave-in Cream, 6 Ounce: Beauty
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I'm definitely a "curly" 2c. Sometimes curly and sometimes just wavy upper layer with a ringlety under layer. My hair has been thick and coarse since birth. Strawberry blonde in color that can and does change depending on the type and amount of light.


    All in all, I'm happy with my hair type but almost for sure think yours is prettier. :)
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users
    _If_ the OP is CG, this would not be an appropriate product because of its containing silicones and petroleum products. I also suspect that it wouldn't help clumping because of its mineral oil and petrolatum; I'm not sure about the cones and how they would affect clumping.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users
    It might be most helpful to condition with a product with emulsifier(s) than straight up oils, as that would help the oils and water to work together. That's my take on my personal observations that my hair clumps best with conditioner.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Agree. Also when you do use oils I know that jojoba at least can be drying and cause frizz in some. Coconut is better at penetrating the hair. Smaller molecules.
  • shutupshelbyshutupshelby Posts: 10Registered Users
    I agree with Chupie. I'd deep condition regularly for a while and see if that helps. One thing I recently found that I think is helpful for moisture and preventing damage is Suave Professionals Natural Infusion Awapuhi Ginger and Honeysuckle Light Leave-in Cream. I just recently started using it and I really like it. I co-wash my hair daily (not everyone does this) and I apply this cream before I pin my hair up so I can apply my makeup. Then I take my hair out of the pin and style as normal.

    Thank you!!!
  • shutupshelbyshutupshelby Posts: 10Registered Users
    _If_ the OP is CG, this would not be an appropriate product because of its containing silicones and petroleum products. I also suspect that it wouldn't help clumping because of its mineral oil and petrolatum; I'm not sure about the cones and how they would affect clumping.

    What is OP? And yeah in my first picture I was still using conditioners with silicones (cantu Shea butter, tresemme) however I stopped around the middle of last year but I will most defiantly try some Deep condtioners, thank you so much!
  • shutupshelbyshutupshelby Posts: 10Registered Users
    chupie wrote: »
    Agree. Also when you do use oils I know that jojoba at least can be drying and cause frizz in some. Coconut is better at penetrating the hair. Smaller molecules.

    Okay:) and yes I tried coconut oil on my hair, NOT A GOOD MIX , after 2 days my whole hair and scalp stank really bad :|
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    When there is heat (or any other damage) protein DTs are what's really needed. Direct heat to the hair causes erosion of the cuticle, here's a pic of what heat can do to hair: Healthilocks_Hair-closeup-1.png

    Even if the damage is less, as in the next pic, moisture will escape from the hair easily so moisturizing DTs by themselves won't really help, protein treatments will act as "spackle" on the hair and temporarily repair it and keep the moisture in.


    shaftdamaged.jpg
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Hmmmm. That's unusual. Generally people just use some coconut oil on the hair shaft and leave it overnight before a wash day. Are you using a no poo with coco betaine or other gentle surficant? It should be enough to rid you of the excess.
  • rapunzel4everrapunzel4ever Posts: 557Registered Users
    Chupie has a point there. Could there be build-up preventing moisture to get in the hairshaft? You might want to clarify first.

    What helped me after I OP-ed (over proteined) my hair is a mixture of 3 tbsp cone free conditioner with 1 tbsp honey (mix this well) and AVG. I scrunch that in toweldry hair (you can even cover your scalp with it!) and put some wheat germ oil on the ends of my hair. Wheat germ oil contains a lot of good stuff and penetrates the hair.
    Then I put on a shower cap and wait for an hour before rinsing thoroughly.

    My hair looks fried and dry after OP-ing and this always makes my hair moisturized and clumpy.

    2b-3a med-fine low porosity
    Blog: KrullenWijzer.nl
    2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
    Routine:
    Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
    RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
    acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
    LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
    Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP, JCCC, BRHG
    Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
    KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
  • shutupshelbyshutupshelby Posts: 10Registered Users
    chupie wrote: »
    Hmmmm. That's unusual. Generally people just use some coconut oil on the hair shaft and leave it overnight before a wash day. Are you using a no poo with coco betaine or other gentle surficant? It should be enough to rid you of the excess.

    Oooooh! Usually when I used to use coconut oil I would leave it in as a moisturizer. And I don't poo often. However I just started pooing once a month using Shea butter curl and shine
  • shutupshelbyshutupshelby Posts: 10Registered Users
    Chupie has a point there. Could there be build-up preventing moisture to get in the hairshaft? You might want to clarify first.

    What helped me after I OP-ed (over proteined) my hair is a mixture of 3 tbsp cone free conditioner with 1 tbsp honey (mix this well) and AVG. I scrunch that in toweldry hair (you can even cover your scalp with it!) and put some wheat germ oil on the ends of my hair. Wheat germ oil contains a lot of good stuff and penetrates the hair.
    Then I put on a shower cap and wait for an hour before rinsing thoroughly.

    My hair looks fried and dry after OP-ing and this always makes my hair moisturized and clumpy.

    2b-3a med-fine low porosity
    Blog: KrullenWijzer.nl

    Mmmm okay! So what should I use to clarify? Is the above recipe something that you used as a deep conditioner? If so I will defiantly give it a try next week when I wash my hair again
  • shutupshelbyshutupshelby Posts: 10Registered Users
    When there is heat (or any other damage) protein DTs are what's really needed. Direct heat to the hair causes erosion of the cuticle, here's a pic of what heat can do to hair: Healthilocks_Hair-closeup-1.png

    Even if the damage is less, as in the next pic, moisture will escape from the hair easily so moisturizing DTs by themselves won't really help, protein treatments will act as "spackle" on the hair and temporarily repair it and keep the moisture in.


    shaftdamaged.jpg

    Thanks! Do you have any suggestions to keep the moisture in?
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users
    OP = other person
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Any clarifying sulfate shampoo should work. Since you won't use it hardly ever I'd go for wine thing inexpensive like suave.

    Do you have a Sally's? You can by packets of deep condition there or try something like the As I am intensive treatment which I hear is great. I also hear their leave in is awesome.
  • MkmurdockMkmurdock Posts: 14Registered Users
    OP frequently stands for 'original poster' and, on this site, 'over-proteined'.

    GL. (Good luck ;)
  • rapunzel4everrapunzel4ever Posts: 557Registered Users
    Chupie has a point there. Could there be build-up preventing moisture to get in the hairshaft? You might want to clarify first.

    What helped me after I OP-ed (over proteined) my hair is a mixture of 3 tbsp cone free conditioner with 1 tbsp honey (mix this well) and AVG. I scrunch that in toweldry hair (you can even cover your scalp with it!) and put some wheat germ oil on the ends of my hair. Wheat germ oil contains a lot of good stuff and penetrates the hair.
    Then I put on a shower cap and wait for an hour before rinsing thoroughly.

    My hair looks fried and dry after OP-ing and this always makes my hair moisturized and clumpy.

    2b-3a med-fine low porosity
    Blog: KrullenWijzer.nl

    Mmmm okay! So what should I use to clarify? Is the above recipe something that you used as a deep conditioner? If so I will defiantly give it a try next week when I wash my hair again

    Yes, I use this recipe as a DT.
    But without the wheat germ oil, I also use this recipe (CO+honey+AVG) as a moisturizing co-wash. Just be sure to use a light CO without protein, glycerin, shea butter when you use it for conditioner washing.

    2b-3a med-fine low porosity
    Blog: KrullenWijzer.nl
    2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
    Routine:
    Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
    RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
    acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
    LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
    Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP, JCCC, BRHG
    Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
    KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    Idk, I wouldn't be so sure about being "over-proteinized"... when I use too much oil my hair separates and refuses to clump, and it can also get frizzy, this just happened yesterday when I used an "oil moisturizer" a bit too liberally as a LI. You mentioned using an oil as LI sometimes so it's my opinion that if the other advice still doesn't work for you that you use your oil very sparingly, like only in the ends.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • Cristy_amkCristy_amk Posts: 171Registered Users
    I thought OP was original poster?

    The pics are awesome! Makes me REALLY hesitate to use heat! I still have to color though :) Damn gray hairs! :)
  • dixygirldixygirl Posts: 279Banned Users
    I think some suggestions from type 4 hair folk would be extremely beneficial in this discussion. I have noticed that silicone conditioners clump the hair and make it looser and smoother. Heat protectors usually are heavy in silicones. If you have stopped using them, this could most certainly be responsible for your wooly hair having less weight necessary to clump. Your hair is a perfect photo documentary of what happens to borderline type 3c/4a hair without weight. I do believe you that your hair is highly conditioned as it does look like healthy natural 3c/4a hair. It just does not look like hair that has been sufficiently tamed for your tastes, by products appropriate for your hair type in the 2nd photo.

    I have read some suggestions here that would work great for other hair types other than type 4 hair. Some of the suggestions I have read here will actually hurt type 4 hair, particularly if all used together. Please be careful with following some of these suggestions for your hair type. I actually recommend you consulting with a professional who has a similar hair type who will not inadvertently misguide you.
    3b/c, 2c at nape, fine, norm-hi porosity, low density, biracial, BSL
    Conditioner:Kanechom, Silicon Mix. Hello Hydration. ApHogee 2min
    Co-Wash: $ store cond
    Prepoo: combinations of:yogurt, liquid aminos, honey,mustard oil, egg,red palm oil,coconut milk
    Leave in Products: Silicon Mix Proteina de Perla LI, coconut milk, coconut oil, olive oil, or mustard oil
    Naturally curly color treated
    Fan of www.tightlycurly.com "Curly Like Me"
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Which suggestions will hurt or help? The thread has been up several days and I know I was hoping for more knowledgable input for the original poster.
  • rapunzel4everrapunzel4ever Posts: 557Registered Users
    I'm afraid I haven't been very clear to begin with. Morgan Adcock most likely meant Original Poster when she used the letters OP.

    I never meant to suggest that the Original Poster over-protein-ed her hair, but just that the look of her hair reminded me of the way my hair looks when I over-protein-ed (OP-ed) mine. And when I did so, I needed a lot of moisturizing.
    And since I think the OP needs a lot of moisture back in her hair, I suggested to try my favorite recipe.

    I'm sorry my choice of words caused confusion..

    2b-3a med-fine low porosity
    Blog: KrullenWijzer.nl
    2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
    Routine:
    Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
    RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
    acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
    LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
    Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP, JCCC, BRHG
    Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
    KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
  • CGSince2002CGSince2002 Posts: 1,073Banned Users
    dixygirl wrote: »
    I think some suggestions from type 4 hair folk would be extremely beneficial in this discussion. I have noticed that silicone conditioners clump the hair and make it looser and smoother. Heat protectors usually are heavy in silicones. If you have stopped using them, this could most certainly be responsible for your wooly hair having less weight necessary to clump. Your hair is a perfect photo documentary of what happens to borderline type 3c/4a hair without weight. I do believe you that your hair is highly conditioned as it does look like healthy natural 3c/4a hair. It just does not look like hair that has been sufficiently tamed for your tastes, by products appropriate for your hair type in the 2nd photo.

    I have read some suggestions here that would work great for other hair types other than type 4 hair. Some of the suggestions I have read here will actually hurt type 4 hair, particularly if all used together. Please be careful with following some of these suggestions for your hair type. I actually recommend you consulting with a professional who has a similar hair type who will not inadvertently misguide you.

    The thing about hair is that nothing is really written in stone... You've seen what type of hair I have, yet I often do things that would not work for others of "my type" very successfully. Even though most of my hair is baby fine and colored, light COs for example, simply do not work for me, I actually need to "weigh" my hair down a little so it won't float into the stratosphere. My fave LI actually says it's for "very curly to kinky hair" and lately, because my hair is even more porous, I've had to be more liberal in the application whereas a year ago if I'd used that much it would've left my hair looking greasy. I mentioned before that I buy quite a few "ethnic" products precisely because they're richer. Of course, maybe I cannot apply as heavily as most 4s would, but the majority of 2s & other 3As could not touch those products with a 10 foot pole. The same goes for my choice of gel, I need one with good hold for the same reasons while other fine haired ladies go for lighter hold.

    My point is that hair "type" alone does not determine the needs of any particular curl pattern, period. I read an article recently (which I could not find now...), that addressed things that are much more important than "type". And after an absence of 7 years from NC.com, I've noticed the number/letter system has been totally changed from what Andre Walker, the stylist who came up with it, intended (he had no 3C or 4C btw...), but he wrote the book in the '90s and that's been quite a while ago. I think that even the "new" classifications haven't helped because quite a few people in the 4 category take great offense at being "pushed" to the last number/letter, I've read many comments and angry tirades who place the typing into at least borderline racism when it's actually just a matter of "degree of curl", not of importance or anything.

    So, each curly just needs to get to know her own hair very well and not get too hung up about hair type.
    Joined Curltalk 1st time in early '02 shortly after starting CG. I'm a non-practicing Cosmetologist.
    Hair: color-treated, mostly 3A.
    CO-wash: VO5 K&L
    RO: SpaHaus Salon w/OO, VO5 Shea Cashmere, W.R. Trop. Coconut, Daily Defense Moisturizing & others.
    LI: Beautiful Curls w/Shea Butter & C.O., Hollywood Beauty OO Creme, VO5 K&L, Aveda Be Curly Curl Enhancer.
    Gels: LAL Wet Look, ORS Lock & Twist.
    Oils: Jojoba, EVCO & Africa's Best Ultimate Herbal Oil

  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users
    I actually recommend you consulting with a professional who has a similar hair type who will not inadvertently misguide you.

    I think this advice is good in principle, but my experience has been that almost all hair professionals who have hair like mine are in denial. I'm reminded, in particular, of one "master stylist" with very curly hair who just couldn't seem to get what I meant when I told her I was always going to wear my hair curly. She'd always insist on taking the curl out, then adding artificial curl back to it, using a curling iron. I found it very distressing partially because I wanted to learn from her how to style my hair better, and also because she burnt off a rather large clump of hair one day when someone asked her a question while she had the curling iron in my hair. Fortunately, not too long after that incident, I learned about Curly Girling, and started getting Deva cuts.

    OTOH, my current stylist has a stronger curl pattern than I do, but is brilliant at cutting and styling other types of curls.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users
    @dixygirl the original poster didn't use heat protector when straightening.

    The only things that are missing from the suggestions are things like attempting the LOC method or not just using oil at all in styling i.e. using a leave-in followed by a gel. Doing styles like twist outs or braid outs to get more uniform curls.

    Unfortunately like everything suggested it requires experimentation as every head of hair mixed with weather and water conditions is different.
  • multicultcurlymulticultcurly Posts: 5,132Registered Users
    Hair properties are more important than curl pattern. The OP looks to be 3c, but I find it hard to tell without seeing a dry hair photo. Her hair looks as if it needs more moisture so the curls would be more defined. I would also recommend a gel and going CG as well as a hair analysis. Her hair looks to be medium texture so a mix of protein and emollients would probably be beneficial.

    Not all 2s have fine hair; many have medium and/or coarse hair so most advice for type 2 hair wouldn't work for them. Most type 4s don't have coarse hair, especially 4a, yet most information says this type is coarse. Type 4 hair tends to be naturally dryer than other types regardless of texture. However, many types who have the same properties but different curl patterns use the same products without any problems.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App
    3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
    HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
    Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed
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