Can we discuss "Nice Guys?"

spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
It's been touched on here before, but never the topic of its own thread (that I can recall).

I got this definition from Urban Dic (not my normal point of reference but spot on in this case).

A annoying mental condition in which a heterosexual man concocts over simplified ideas why women aren’t flocking to him in droves. Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance. He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship; misrepresenting his intentions of wanting to be her friend and having the expectation that he is owed more than friendship because he is such a good listener. He is prone to brooding over this and passive aggressive behavior.

He is too stupid to realize the reason women don’t find him attractive is because he feels sorry for himself, he concludes that women like to be treated like ****.

What are your thoughts? Elaborate as much as you want.

(This isn't about anyone I'm currently involved with...not looking for advice...just discussion.)

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Comments

  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    I've known men that fit that description who are truly nice, and who are truly f-tards. I don't think you can put this kind of definition to the term "nice guy", because not all of them are nice.

    I've known women who, if they are with a truly nice man, they get bored and throw them out for a f-tard. Some women crave the drama, and I don't get it. And from this perspective, I can see why some men can conclude that women like to be treated like crap.

    On the other hand, some sincere women are looking for a truly nice man. In the past I have found a couple, but then they are hung up on some woman who treated them like crap.

    It's a vicious cycle really. We all have baggage and bitterness. I don't think it's about being a "nice guy", I just think it's human nature to dwell on what you don't have and try to make sense of it by making things up in your head and not taking responsibility for who you are. Desperation is another topic...

    I've been told by a "nice guy" that playing the friend he had hoped to gain trust and get the girl. This guy seriously does anything for his friends, truly nice guy. Well, he never did get the girl (until me :D).

    I've had the "nice guy" friend before, that tried to get with me while he had a girlfriend (that he kinda failed to mention off the bat). There are fake "nice guys" all over the place.

    I didn't really have any organization to my thoughts, but I am done now.
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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    With regard to this specifically:

    Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance.

    do you think they genuine believe these are the reasons? Or are these just convenient excuses to use to deflect criticism away?

  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    With regard to this specifically:

    Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance.

    do you think they genuine believe these are the reasons? Or are these just convenient excuses to use to deflect criticism away?

    It may be partly the fact that he is average in appearance. I don't doubt they might truly think they are "too nice", but in reality I think it's mostly the bolded. I think a lot of their attitudes stink, because of past hurts and they don't realize what they are putting out there.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
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  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    LOL, soo true. And to the last question, I truly do believe that these types thinks its their looks that aren't getting girls.

    I knew a guy who had this nice guy syndrome who thought getting a six pack and starving himself would work because he thought he'd have to do that since he's short and not typically attractive. No dude, it was his personality all the way.

    It's pretty simple, just how men don't find insecure women attractive, it goes the other way as well.
  • rouquinnerouquinne Posts: 13,734Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    i've been hearing about "nice" guys online for over 20 years, but i've never heard this before:

    He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship;

    basically, from the old usenet newsgroups soc.singles and soc.romance, the definition of nice guys is as follows:

    A `nice guy' is a guy whom other people think is nice.

    A `Nice Guy(tm)'is a guy who thinks himself to be nice and expects that women owe him romantic attention because of this. It is not unusual for a Nice Guy (tm) to immediately follow up his proclamation of his own niceness with bitter invective about the women who have crossed his path, thereby demonstrating how truly nice a fellow he actually is.


    no need to be actively pursuing women who are already attached.
    My blog:

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  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Yes, the 'nice guys' talk more to girls in relationships because they are usually wimps and feel safe and no pressure talking to someone in a relationship. They also are really not that nice because they don't really respect boundaries and still try to talk/hang out with someone in a relationship somewhat inappropriately.
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,157Registered Users Curl Novice
    They are often interested in a girl, but don't express interest. Then when you get with someone else, they're like.. oh, I thought we had something going here. Well, bud, that's news to me!
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
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  • PerriPPerriP Posts: 6,613Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I've never heard nice guy used like this - for me, and in my environment, a nice guy is just a guy who is nice. He may or may not be involved/married, etc. He may hang out with women or with men (or a mix).
    Modified CG since Dec 2011
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    rouquinne wrote: »
    i've been hearing about "nice" guys online for over 20 years, but i've never heard this before:

    He often targets a woman who is already in a relationship;

    basically, from the old usenet newsgroups soc.singles and soc.romance, the definition of nice guys is as follows:

    A `nice guy' is a guy whom other people think is nice.

    A `Nice Guy(tm)'is a guy who thinks himself to be nice and expects that women owe him romantic attention because of this. It is not unusual for a Nice Guy (tm) to immediately follow up his proclamation of his own niceness with bitter invective about the women who have crossed his path, thereby demonstrating how truly nice a fellow he actually is.

    no need to be actively pursuing women who are already attached.

    Yeah, I had never heard that part (about targeting women in relationships) before either. But now that I've heard it, it fits! I have two "Nice Guys" in my life and when I'm in a relationship, they always seem to be much more interested in me! LOL


    Is there a female equivalent of "Nice Guy?"

  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
    I know a guy like this. He's a nice guy, but not really

    He likes to say things, in the guise of advice, to undermind whatever I have going on.
  • rouquinnerouquinne Posts: 13,734Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Is there a female equivalent of "Nice Guy?"

    i've only ever seen "Nice Gal" for that.
    My blog:

    http://labellatestarossa.blogspot.ca/

    Little Mother of all the Roaches, President-for-Life of the MAC Harlots!
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    PerriP wrote: »
    I've never heard nice guy used like this - for me, and in my environment, a nice guy is just a guy who is nice. He may or may not be involved/married, etc. He may hang out with women or with men (or a mix).

    The nice guy that's being referred to here is when guys complain that women don't like 'nice guys' and that's why they are single. What it really is, is that we don't like LAME guys.

    Since I work with software geeks and went to school with them, I'm very familiar with the 'nice guy' bs. It's insulting because they insinuate that I don't like genuinely nice guys.
  • PerriPPerriP Posts: 6,613Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Josephine wrote: »
    PerriP wrote: »
    I've never heard nice guy used like this - for me, and in my environment, a nice guy is just a guy who is nice. He may or may not be involved/married, etc. He may hang out with women or with men (or a mix).

    The nice guy that's being referred to here is when guys complain that women don't like 'nice guys' and that's why they are single. What it really is, is that we don't like LAME guys.

    Since I work with software geeks and went to school with them, I'm very familiar with the 'nice guy' bs. It's insulting because they insinuate that I don't like genuinely nice guys.

    I understand the context, I'm just saying that I've never seen it used that way, even the guys who say they are "nice guys".
    Modified CG since Dec 2011
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Josephine wrote: »
    PerriP wrote: »
    I've never heard nice guy used like this - for me, and in my environment, a nice guy is just a guy who is nice. He may or may not be involved/married, etc. He may hang out with women or with men (or a mix).

    The nice guy that's being referred to here is when guys complain that women don't like 'nice guys' and that's why they are single. What it really is, is that we don't like LAME guys.

    Since I work with software geeks and went to school with them, I'm very familiar with the 'nice guy' bs. It's insulting because they insinuate that I don't like genuinely nice guys.


    OMG YES, thank you!!!!

    So insulting.

    And it's just not true.

    Sad thing is, I've given one of them the green light a once or twice when I wasn't dating anyone, and he tripped over his own dick a million times (if anyone remembers the macaroni n cheese and pork chop story). Then was salty when I met someone else who could close the deal. Badmouthed the guy and claimed it's just bc he is taller or that his "game" clouded my good judgment.

  • honeysweet20honeysweet20 Posts: 362Registered Users Curl Novice
    delete double post
  • honeysweet20honeysweet20 Posts: 362Registered Users Curl Novice
    Josephine wrote: »

    It's pretty simple, just how men don't find insecure women attractive, it goes the other way as well.


    This is probably the issue that "nice folks" don't get. Bad guys get the girls not because they are bad but because they are confident. A little bit of self-esteem (As Kat Williams said it's ESTEEM OF YO SELF) goes a longggg way.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Josephine wrote: »

    It's pretty simple, just how men don't find insecure women attractive, it goes the other way as well.


    This is probably the issue that "nice folks" don't get. Bad guys get the girls not because they are bad but because they are confident. A little bit of self-esteem (As Kat Williams said it's ESTEEM OF YO SELF) goes a longggg way.

    I agree. But I also think (to perhaps a lesser extent) that some men are simply better looking than others. Period. Those good looking men might have good personalities or they might be d-bags. But either way, they are still good looking and they will get more women by virtue of that alone. So when you see a decent woman w/ a d-bag, it's rarely BECAUSE he is a d-bag...but rather bc he is better looking and she is willing to overlook the d-bag qualities.

  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,391Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Is there a female equivalent of "Nice Guy?"
    I think there can't be an exact female equivalent. Being a Nice Guy boils down to believing you're entitled to all women, all the time. A ton of guys are raised to believe this, but not so much with women.

    The Nice Guy believes that he's entitled to women, especially if he's "put in his time" with one by pretending to be her friend while he tries to manipulate her into sleeping with him. The Nice Guy then blames all women, collectively, for his lack of dating success. After all, he's entitled to them, right? Some go so far as to claim that women actively conspire to force him into involuntary celibacy, or "incel."
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Josephine wrote: »

    It's pretty simple, just how men don't find insecure women attractive, it goes the other way as well.


    This is probably the issue that "nice folks" don't get. Bad guys get the girls not because they are bad but because they are confident. A little bit of self-esteem (As Kat Williams said it's ESTEEM OF YO SELF) goes a longggg way.

    I agree. But I also think (to perhaps a lesser extent) that some men are simply better looking than others. Period. Those good looking men might have good personalities or they might be d-bags. But either way, they are still good looking and they will get more women by virtue of that alone. So when you see a decent woman w/ a d-bag, it's rarely BECAUSE he is a d-bag...but rather bc he is better looking and she is willing to overlook the d-bag qualities.

    Exactly. But I'm really into nice guys(real ones) so a persons personality will make him/her attractive. Some of the whiners I have met are actually better looking than guys I've dated but just annoying as hell.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    With regard to this specifically:

    Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance.

    do you think they genuine believe these are the reasons? Or are these just convenient excuses to use to deflect criticism away?

    I think *some* absolutely believe those reasons because they are told, time and time again, during every breakup that they are...

    "So nice. You have a truly wonderful and big heart. You were very kind to me but I just think of you as a friend".

    And then they watch her go back to the man that she insisted treated her like crap. I personally have done that to more than one guy in my youth.

    As far as the other nice guys who think they are entitled to all women... Not saying they don't exist, but I have never met one. I have only heard men talk about "too nice" being listed as a breakup reason. I personally have not heard guys go on and on about being nice without some point or context.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    To add a little more to that... Those were all times that my ex and I had broken up. I was still very much so in love with him, and angry at him. I got into relationships when I shouldn't have. Before I was ready, but I went through 7 years of this with him and of course needed to date other people on occasion (when I had been stagnate too long). Every time the guy fell head over heels in love with me, and I did not feel the same. He had been kind. He had been nice. He had been good to me. All that was true, but I could not keep the relationship going with the feelings not being mutual.

    I've had men use those exact same lines on me when they were still hung up on a real beeotch. It's a common. At that time I was thankful for the relationships I had where we both knew it was not going to become serious, but enjoyed each others company made out anyway.

    (I also can't say the guys who have treated me like they were entitled to me (kidnapper/rapist/the guy who pulled a gun on me at a party because I stopped him when he was trying to have sex with my unconscious friend) ever claimed to be a nice guy).
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,408Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    Is there a female equivalent of "Nice Guy?"
    I think there can't be an exact female equivalent. Being a Nice Guy boils down to believing you're entitled to all women, all the time. A ton of guys are raised to believe this, but not so much with women.

    The Nice Guy believes that he's entitled to women, especially if he's "put in his time" with one by pretending to be her friend while he tries to manipulate her into sleeping with him. The Nice Guy then blames all women, collectively, for his lack of dating success. After all, he's entitled to them, right? Some go so far as to claim that women actively conspire to force him into involuntary celibacy, or "incel."

    This might be true for a lot of guys but I don't think all.

    For me the female equivalent are the ones that are also less physically attractive but don't have attractive personalities/attitudes and complain that guys only like skinny girls. I know a couple.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    With regard to this specifically:

    Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance.

    do you think they genuine believe these are the reasons? Or are these just convenient excuses to use to deflect criticism away?

    I think *some* absolutely believe those reasons because they are told, time and time again, during every breakup that they are...

    "So nice. You have a truly wonderful and big heart. You were very kind to me but I just think of you as a friend".

    And then they watch her go back to the man that she insisted treated her like crap. I personally have done that to more than one guy in my youth.

    As far as the other nice guys who think they are entitled to all women... Not saying they don't exist, but I have never met one. I have only heard men talk about "too nice" being listed as a breakup reason. I personally have not heard guys go on and on about being nice without some point or context.


    I think it's a very subtle thing. They don't articulate it. Bc I don't think they're even aware that they were conditioned to feel that way.

    The manifestion of it I see, among African American "Nice Guys," goes like, "I've never served time in prison. I'm not a drug dealer. I don't have 15 illegitimate children. I have a college degree and I make OK money. I'm not 6' 5" and pushing a 2014 Lexus but my car is paid for and it's never been repo'd. SO WHY THE HELL IS SHE WITH THAT KNUCKLEHEAD?! See, that's why I have no respect for Black women anymore..."

    I'm sure White men have a similar MO...

    It's kind of subversive. But there is a feeling that if he's not obviously defective, he should be able to snap his fingers and have ~her~...i.e., all desirable women who are not with him.

    And that is a very arrogant assumption. He has no idea why she is with the other guy...or why she rejected him...and did he even really step to her when she was single or just dance around it around calling himself her "friend."

  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    With regard to this specifically:

    Typically this male will whine and complain about how women never want to date them because he is “too nice” or that he is average in appearance.

    do you think they genuine believe these are the reasons? Or are these just convenient excuses to use to deflect criticism away?

    I think *some* absolutely believe those reasons because they are told, time and time again, during every breakup that they are...

    "So nice. You have a truly wonderful and big heart. You were very kind to me but I just think of you as a friend".

    And then they watch her go back to the man that she insisted treated her like crap. I personally have done that to more than one guy in my youth.

    As far as the other nice guys who think they are entitled to all women... Not saying they don't exist, but I have never met one. I have only heard men talk about "too nice" being listed as a breakup reason. I personally have not heard guys go on and on about being nice without some point or context.


    I think it's a very subtle thing. They don't articulate it. Bc I don't think they're even aware that they were conditioned to feel that way.

    The manifestion of it I see, among African American "Nice Guys," goes like, "I've never served time in prison. I'm not a drug dealer. I don't have 15 illegitimate children. I have a college degree and I make OK money. I'm not 6' 5" and pushing a 2014 Lexus but my car is paid for and it's never been repo'd. SO WHY THE HELL IS SHE WITH THAT KNUCKLEHEAD?! See, that's why I have no respect for Black women anymore..."

    I'm sure White men have a similar MO...

    It's kind of subversive. But there is a feeling that if he's not obviously defective, he should be able to snap his fingers and have ~her~...i.e., all desirable women who are not with him.

    And that is a very arrogant assumption. He has no idea why she is with the other guy...or why she rejected him...and did he even really step to her when she was single or just dance around it around calling himself her "friend."


    Gotcha. Again, I've never had that conversation with a guy outside of friend going through a very hard break up. They were in love, they were given the nice guy spill, and she left him for a guy who she said treated her badly and who does not have his isht together (on paper). I don't usually hold that against them or make any judgements. They are hurt, upset, bitter and saying stuff. If I had that conversation with a guy I was dating, my first presumption would be... He is still really hung up on this person.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I used to be the go to girl after my guys broke up with girlfriend. They were all well aware of what I had been through or was going through with my ex, and knew I was a safe place where they could get out all of their feelings. Several of them got the nice guy spill, so I am well versed in that particular context. (I always had more guy friend (just friends) than girl friends). *It was in no way a I am entitled to her context. It was just a confused, sad, why didn't she love me context.

    I have seen people post stuff from websites here about nice guy syndrome. Looks like a bunch of teenagers ranting about stuff. I was kind of curious as to why this was so upsetting. :)

    I mean, it's not like women don't say stuff about men or the women they leave them for.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Fifi.G wrote: »
    I used to be the go to girl after my guys broke up with girlfriend. They were all well aware of what I had been through or was going through with my ex, and knew I was a safe place where they could get out all of their feelings. Several of them got the nice guy spill, so I am well versed in that particular context. (I always had more guy friend (just friends) than girl friends). *It was in no way a I am entitled to her context. It was just a confused, sad, why didn't she love me context.

    I have seen people post stuff from websites here about nice guy syndrome. Looks like a bunch of teenagers ranting about stuff. I was kind of curious as to why this was so upsetting. :)

    I mean, it's not like women don't say stuff about men or the women they leave them for.

    "Nice Guys" rarely get as far as the break up bc they rarely get the woman (they want) in the first place. LOL

  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I was just reading over this (have not finished it yet). A portion of it I see as someone making way too much out of things people say during a breakup. Again that comes from of perspective of both men and women are completely capable of having raw emotions and not holding them back.


    Then there are these points

    But I offered you advice on boys! I let you cry on my shoulder at every break up! I loaned you my pencil in Math class! I was nice to you! We were friends!

    This one is particularly eyebrow-raising because apparently friendship=relationship and sex/relationship is owed the moment one becomes friends.

    But I asked you out five times and you said no each time! See, clearly you’re the jerk!

    *There is a facebook post from high schoolers inserted*

    This image does a particularly good job of illustrating the ‘but I asked you out!’ argument. Apparently if a guy likes us, we are obligated to, optimally, like him back. If we don’t like him, we must give good reasons. We simply cannot say no. If we simply say no, it is not enough and we are just playing hard to get. And must be pursued, even a bit creepily, like this fellow here. This plays into rape culture quite nicely as when a woman says no, it is not important to listen.


    ^ Now this I do not see as having anything to do with the other points made. The guy that got me into his car under the false pretense of going to get food and started driving me to his apartment, against my will, was bipolar and he was having a violent manic episode. It took close to an hour for me to talk him down, and get him to take me back to my friends house. Afterward he called (before caller ID) and asked for another chance. He had been to a doctor, diagnosed as having a chem imbalance, and put on med's. He was rather pissed when I said no. That was supposed to make everything okay. He was f**king crazy. The guy that raped me continued changing the name of his facebook account every time I blocked him, a couple of years ago, and kept sending me friend requests. Why? Because he is an evil bas*ard.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    http://icedteaandlemoncake.wordpress.com/2011/04/04/feminsim-101-nice-guy-syndrome/

    Woops. Here we go. The link did not fully make it in before.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • curlysue62curlysue62 Posts: 13Registered Users
    "Nice guys" are just guys that re trying to find an excuse why girls don't like them and instead of them figuring out what they're doing wrong they blame it on the girl and her taste in men!

    What girl doesn't like a "nice guy"?! If the guys excuse is "she doesn't like nice guys" then he probably isn't actually a nice guy and he's just restarted because every girl likes a "nice guy"!

    Check out this Jenna marbles video about nice guys: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3VXXXX9iVPI
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I think placing people who show signs of obsessive behavior, potential stalkers, and those who potentially have other mental or serious anger or aggressive tendencies in the category of "nice guy syndrome", and lumping them with some of these other points, is ignorant.

    * Just looking at the first couple of points... How many times have seen women here say, or said myself, you don't need that! He is a bleepy bleep! I have higher standards than that! You were nice to him and he was a ... ?? Oh, more than I can count. That is perfectly normal for men and women, and we all use some unflattering words from time to time. That is a completely different thing than stalker or potential rapist and shows a bit of a double standard.

    *sorry. I'm reading more when I can and coming back. I am not even about to make the bold assumption that every single man who says I have a good job, I was kind to her, etc. Is assuming that every woman longs for a man that will support her. Sometimes people just look at the other person they were left for and make the most obvious comparisons they see about their lives. That plus there are still women who look for those qualities in men so it would not always be the most ridiculous assumption to make if that were the case. (It's a bit antiquated to act like there is something wrong with stay at home mom, given that is a valid choice now). Perhaps she fussed about the guy not having a job before she went back to him. Just saying, it's not always so simple as 'point finger and yell patriarchy!'
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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