How to Get Healthy Hair Before/After Blonde?

BlondeBeautyBlondeBeauty Registered Users Posts: 71
I went blonde 2 years ago and it was a disaster. My whole head was WHITE and she never put the dye back in. It was very very damaged. I have a new hair stylist now who specializes in blonde and he's very good. Always booked up a month in advance. He bleaches but he puts the dye back in so I trust him to do a good job. Everyone working in the salon's hair looks good. Can't say that for a lot of salons I went to.

Right now my hair is very dry and frizzy and unhealthy. A lot of it is buildup. I can tell it's there but I just can't get it out for some reason. I might have to let my hair stylist shampoo and get it out. But some of it is just how my hair is. I'm sure getting it dyed with Redken Shades EQ 5 times (although moisturizing at first) didn't help. But I have not colored my hair at all since last December (not this one but last year). I need to get it healthy before I get the blonde done (which I will do gradually this time, starting with 6 foils) and keep it healthy afterwards.

I do use sulfate shampoos which I can't really avoid because sulfate free shampoos irritate my scalp (I've tried so many, I've literally lost count). I can't cowash because I straighten my hair and have to use heat protectant which contains silicones so I will have a ton of buildup. So how can I make this happen? I know you will say it is impossible to have both blonde and straight hair but it's really not. The majority of girls at my school are blonde and they are straightening as well. When I got my hair bleached the first time, I straightened it all the time. For hours. Terrible heat protectant. It never fell out, I never had to get it cut as a result. The only thing it did was make my already dry and frizzy hair wayyyyy drier and wayyyyy frizzier. But my hair was a lot healthier then than it is now (a lot is probably buildup but I really am starting to think the dye affected it).

I know you are supposed to do a protein treatment and moisture treatment after going blonde and weekly after that. Should I start with that now to get it healthy before the bleach? I use a leave in conditioning protein spray every time I shower (about every 3 days) and I just bought a new product I'm going to try for my once a week protein treatment called Redken Extreme Strength Builder Plus (which has great reviews). What can I use for moisture? Can I use organic coconut oil or would that strip the dye he's going to put in it? It's going to be permanent I believe. So do I use the protein treatment and then immediately after do the moisture treatment or can I do that the next day? I know the Redken you leave in 15 mins but how long would you leave the coconut oil in? What suggestions do you have for me?

Also is there a gentle sulfate shampoo you would recommend to me?

Thanks so much!! :)

Comments

  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Registered Users Posts: 3,750 Curl Neophyte
    I am a dye head myself but I am going to say to you just don't go there. You can't get badly damaged hair healthy, it's dead so it does not repair like skin can. Grow out the worst of the old dye and heat damage and then bleach. 'Putting the colour back' is purely cosmetic it is NOT making your hair healthier.

    NO dyed or bleached hair does not need moisture (= water). It will be overly porous so already take up too much water when washing. This damages hair further (hygral fatigue) as does harsh shampoos. Your hair needs targeted conditioning agents.

    First is to see your true hair condition without build up. Purchase a specialist clarifying (product) AND chelating (hard water) shampoo and use that two to three times. If that doesn't work you ARE seeing the state of your hair after repeated dying and heat styling.

    Secondly see your family doctor or a dermatologist about your scalp issues. You should NOT be having harsh alkaline persulphate bleach applied over an undiagnosed scalp issue, no reputable colourist should touch you. Nobody 'needs' sulphates - humans did not evolve with them. Do not go to any salon that does not run skin patch tested a few days beforehand.

    You can help your own skin and hair with an anti inflammatory nutrient dense wholefood diet. Lots of oily fish, seeds, fruit and veg, beans and lentils. No sugar, refined, processed or high glycaemic index carbs, no large servings of meat, caffeine, alcohol.

    There is no such thing as a good heat protectant, nor any scientific evidence silicones do any more than reduce friction and add faux shine. If your hair is fried you are using way too high a temperature and/ or ironing on damp hair ( 'bubble hair') and/ or doing too many passes. Most people have to choose between bleaching and flat ironing - you don't see the girls at school with nekkid hair (shampoo and air dry) and maybe they are not as curly as you to begin with.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • BlondeBeautyBlondeBeauty Registered Users Posts: 71
    I thought that putting the color back is better for your hair than just bleaching and not putting anything back in. Is this not the case?

    By moisture, I meant oil. Does bleached hair need oil or not? Is there anything you would recommend for targeted conditioning agents? I have no idea what to look for. One without protein would be good.

    That’s a very good idea with the diet. I will definitely do my best to incorporate those foods on a regular basis. I already had a blood test done a couple months ago and the only problems I have are low iron (very slightly below normal) and hypothyroidism. It can’t be the thyroid though because mine is so slight they are only watching it and if it were that, my hair would be really bad at the scalp. It’s healthy at the scalp and a mess everywhere else. But I have never used the protein leave in spray at the scalp so that could be it too.

    I haven’t flat ironed in a few months but when I do, I never do it on wet hair. And the heat protectant I use does not contain water so it doesn’t get wet at all. I realize I don’t see the girls at school with their natural hair but I am seeing them with how their hair looks then and it looks healthy. Although it should be, my natural hair health is not very important to me. I just want to portray it as healthy to other people as they do. There are so many blondes at my school it’s unreal and even if their hair is not as curly or they have wavy hair naturally and not curly, they still have to straighten and apply heat. I can tell it’s been straightened cause it’s “perfect.” Naturally straight hair is not perfect. So they are using heat and bleach and their hair is fine. Yes, being a natural curly girl my hair is going to be drier than theirs but I’ve even seen girls with really tight curls naturally who color treat and straighten and their hair looks very healthy. I’m guessing it’s about how well you take care of it and deep condition and stuff like that?
  • BluebloodBlueblood Registered Users Posts: 1,748 Curl Neophyte
    Oil does not equal moisture.

    All oils and butters do is seal in moisture that is there and act as a barrier to help keep water out.

    As your hair is damaged follow the advice given by Firefox.
  • ZeldahimeZeldahime Registered Users Posts: 223
    I thought that putting the color back is better for your hair than just bleaching and not putting anything back in. Is this not the case?...

    No. Putting dye back in the hair is not better for it as far as health goes. Typically dying or toning the hair after bleaching is done for people whose hair goes brassy after bleaching. Otherwise it is not necessary and less damaging to the hair to not do a double process.
    ... I haven’t flat ironed in a few months but when I do, I never do it on wet hair. And the heat protectant I use does not contain water so it doesn’t get wet at all. I realize I don’t see the girls at school with their natural hair but I am seeing them with how their hair looks then and it looks healthy. Although it should be, my natural hair health is not very important to me. I just want to portray it as healthy to other people as they do. There are so many blondes at my school it’s unreal and even if their hair is not as curly or they have wavy hair naturally and not curly, they still have to straighten and apply heat. I can tell it’s been straightened cause it’s “perfect.” Naturally straight hair is not perfect. So they are using heat and bleach and their hair is fine. Yes, being a natural curly girl my hair is going to be drier than theirs but I’ve even seen girls with really tight curls naturally who color treat and straighten and their hair looks very healthy. I’m guessing it’s about how well you take care of it and deep condition and stuff like that?

    I have played with bleach in my hair many times. It's been the cause of 2 out of the 4 BCs I've done so far. Nothing has ever fried my hair like bleach can! Now that being said yes I did manage to bleach my hair for a while with *minimal* damage for a time. The PTs and DTs can and should get your hair back to something manageable and decent. It will not return it to its natural untouched glory. Also please remember these are treatments not cures. They will need to be maintained with frequency to keep the hair manageable and decent.

    With regards to other blondes at your school there are many reasons and ways as to how they are keeping their hair. First, some of those blondes may have hair colors light enough so that all they need is a blonde dye, not bleach. While that is still damaging it's still not as damaging as bleach IME. Second, Those girls hair are probably not as curly as yours may be. My Mum and sis have 2a hair naturally and can easily get their hair nice and straight with just blow drying it on low heat. The possibilities are many. If they really are bleaching and flat ironing their hair they may be using a lower heat setting. If not the damage will eventually show up. With my hair it just doesn't even respond to a flat iron until it's set at 400F so it really takes a toll on my hair. Some may be able to manage it and stay on top of it but IME the day always comes when the only thing that will help is a pair of scissors when playing with bleach.

    When the PTs and DTs fail, it's time to cut it off.
    Very fine, high porosity, currently dyed and growing out the relaxed portions. I'm pretty sure my hair's 3b something IIRC. We will be finding out for sure as time goes by.
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Registered Users Posts: 3,750 Curl Neophyte
    Naturally straight and well cared for hair can be glossy and perfect like a Pantene advert, check out some of the beauties on the Long Hair Community. Two thirds of the world's population has wavy or curly hair but MANY wavies don't realise for decades so brush their waves out. They think they have messy/ poufy/ unmanageable 'straight' hair - that is likely what you are seeing as imperfect.

    I said flat ironing on damp hair NOT wet hair. The hair may feel touch dry but hold a little too much water: that can cause bubble hair in ONE session.

    Moisture = water, that is what the word means. Other names for oils are lipids or fats. Bleached hair simply needs not to be bleached to death, use only a weak product and only lift a couple of shades to limit damage. It also needs not to be flat ironed or chemically straightened as well.

    You can temporarily replace some of the lost lipids with pure coconut oil (for the cortex), 18-MEA and ceramides (both for the cuticle) but you will struggle to find these in products without hydrolysed protein (for cortex and cuticle).

    Silicones are artificial oils very different to our natural ones: they do not penetrate or patch repair (temporary) just coat the surface giving faux shine and slip. If you are already using these and they are not enough you hair is likely badly damaged.

    I wish I could be more positive because I LOVE my coloured hair but I have to be truthful with you. I have done a fair amount of research and I don't think what you seek is possible with your hair as it is.

    My hair *looks* healthy, is fairly strong and shiny without silicones, but it has taken me two to three years of growing out old damage, no high heats (only diffusing on low), no brushing (very gentle finger detangling), babying my hair in every way. Turns out without so much damage my waves and ringlets are really pretty!!! I get SO many random compliments in the street including from teenagers.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • BlondeBeautyBlondeBeauty Registered Users Posts: 71
    Okay so I’ve decided not to flat iron my hair. I no longer want straight hair. Instead I want wavy hair. Not curly but wavy. The “perfect” uniform wave that you get from a curling iron/wand. And yes I know it’s still heat but I’m guessing it’s not as bad since you’re not going directly over it with the flat iron and instead you wrap it around (I could be wrong though). I’m going to shower at night and then use the wand in the morning so my hair will be completely dry. I didn’t even realize that about feeling dry to the touch but still being damp, that’s not good at all. My hair used to be tighter curls but from all the flat ironing (I’m assuming), it is now a mix of wavy/curly (not uniform though and it doesn’t look good). I can’t braid it and sleep in it since it’s not all the same, it won’t turn out the same. This is a picture of the type of waves I want, however you achieve this:

    picture Pictures, picture Images, picture Photos, picture Videos - Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

    Also, I still do want to go blonde. But last time I went blonde (a few years ago), I showed the hair stylist (supposedly been doing color for 20 years) a picture of Taylor Swift and I came out with white/gray hair that looks like an old lady’s hair (See pic A). I’m in college. It eventually turned over and looked not as bad but it was still not blonde (see pic B). It was like a gross horrible color, I have no idea what she did. It was never blonde and that’s not what Taylor Swift has. This is the type of blonde I’m looking for (see pic C). This is what most the girls have. Not this exact shade but it’s actually BLONDE. How can I achieve this (at a hair salon)? I know I should show them a picture but like before, that sometimes doesn’t go as planned. Does the hair have to be bleached and then dye put back in? (which I would prefer not to do cause of chemicals but if it’s necessary I’ll do it, as long as it’s PPD free which most blonde dyes are and contain persulfates instead) I just don’t get how they are achieving this color.

    PIC A: picture Pictures, picture Images, picture Photos, picture Videos - Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

    PIC B: picture Pictures, picture Images, picture Photos, picture Videos - Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

    PIC C: picture Pictures, picture Images, picture Photos, picture Videos - Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting


    Also, I tried coconut oil once recently and it made my hair very stringy at the bottom. Did I do something wrong?
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Registered Users Posts: 3,750 Curl Neophyte
    Curling iron can be just as bad as a flat iron, there are very high temperatures involved and direct heat - depends on the timing and technique. There is a YouTube video doing the rounds where a young girl melts a whole section of hair with a curling iron and it literally comes away in her hand.

    You don't specify how you used the coconut oil so we have no way of saying what might have gone wrong. Stringy result would suggest you used way too much as a leave in, or did an overnight treatment and didn't wash the excess out properly.

    If you intend to use a salon if suggest you ask them how they would achieve the colour you seek. White/ grey end result instead of blonde is too much toner AFAIK, possibly on top of bleaching to too light a blonde. Likely her hair was very porous/ damaged.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • etosetos Registered Users Posts: 221
    I think the girls here try to make a wake-up call.

    You simply can't have healthy hair when you bleach AND use flat irons/curling wands. Even one of them (bleach or heat) will damage your hair. So both... No. Sorry.

    The pictures you will see online, are mosty photoshopped/girls with extensions/girls who used a flat iron/curling wand just for this shoot etc. So it's for 99.9% for the people imposible to reach this standard.
    highlighted 3a hair. Fine strands, medium to high density. Probably high porosity. Growing uit bad layering and aiming for waist lenght!

    Pre-poo: coconut oil
    wash: CJ Daily fix or SheaMoisture Coconut&Hibiscus
    RO + LI: different every time
    Styler: CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB

    dislikes: glycerin in low dews, scissor happy stylists, magnesium sulfate

    (modified) CG since june 25, 2012
    Hiarfinity + extra MSM since March 5., 2014

    SL - APL - BSBL- BSL - MBL - WL (stretched)
  • BlondeBeautyBlondeBeauty Registered Users Posts: 71
    Firefox – I watched that video a while ago, it really scared me. But that’s probably very unlikely to happen since I’ve only heard of it happening once. Still it would probably be a good idea to have a hair stylist show me how to use it since I don’t know and to not keep the heat up so high. I tried rollers once before to achieve waves (I only tried one to see how it worked). It was SUPER heavy in my hair and when I took it out, a bunch of hair came out. So probably the only way I’m going to achieve waves is through a styling tool.

    I didn’t do an overnight treatment with the coconut oil. I left it in for about 20-30 minutes and then rinsed it out. I guess I could’ve not washed it out properly although I did shampoo/condition afterward. I don’t know if it might have been the brand too since the one I was using wasn’t organic (does that matter?). I was using Now Solutions. I like this one cause it is odorless seeing as I’m very sensitive to smells but I didn’t like the result. I bought another one Spectrum Now Organic but the smell is really strong and I don’t know if I can handle it.

    I assume the coconut oil should be used weekly as a deep treatment and not every time I shampoo (every 3 days)? I am really struggling to locate a good regular conditioner to use in the shower that is cone free (or at least not at the very top of the ingredient list) and is very moisturizing. Do you have any suggestions?

    It’s possible she used a toner, I’m not sure. I just know she did a full highlight job (my entire head was covered with foils) and then put like a color glaze over it. Surprisingly my hair was not as damaged as it could’ve been when dealing with bleach. I’ve seen way worse! Mine desperately needed some moisture/protein treatments but it was manageable. I was also straightening it daily for like an hour each night and then touching it up in the morning. And it looked bad, a little fried but not that bad (guys were still talking to me lol). But I’ll definitely ask them how to achieve it. I’m struggling to find someone to do it cause I want them to do it right and I don’t know if they will do it right so I’m super nervous.

    Another problem I’ve been having (I’m not sure what is going on) but as I’ve said before, last December (not this past one but the one before that) was the last time I’ve had any color applied to my hair and it was Redken Shades EQ. My hair was VERY thick and looked good. It looked healthy but I know the moisturizers in the dye made it appear that way. But I hadn’t lost any thickness. Now my hair is very thin, I have lost a lot of hair. Just on my head, not anywhere else on my body. It has no body, no bounce like it had then. It is just limp and lifeless. The comb is the only place it’s coming out as far as I know and it doesn’t seem to be enough to cause this problem. Plus it appears to be happening at my scalp too. My first thought was buildup so I have clarified with HE and although it looks a lot better, it still looks bad. The thing that scares me is it feels light (how it always feels after I clarify which means I got everything out). So I’m scared this is my natural hair. I can try to clarify again but I think this is my hair. I could be wrong though, it might take 2 tries to get everything out. Would this HE shampoo get out any and all buildup no matter what it’s from – cones, polyquats, etc?

    Water, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Citric Acid, Rosa Canina (Rose Hip) Fruit Extract, Tocopheryl Acetate, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Extract, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Xylenesulfonate, Fragrance, Cocamide Mea, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Benzoate, Tetrasodium EDTA, PEG-60 Almond Glycerides, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Red 33, Orange 4, Ext. Violet 2, Green 3

    Something happened from last December until now. Even when I looked back in pictures (I only have ones from December and April), it was a lot thinner in April and had no bounce. I’m gonna get another blood test done (last time I had one was summer) but I can only figure 2 things. First of all, I get no Vitamin D during winter (I sunbathe during summer and had my Vitamin D levels checked at that time and they were fine). I don’t eat any foods containing Vitamin D I don’t think. So it could be from that. I’m assuming low Vitamin D can cause hair loss? Another thing which really freaks me out is everytime I use this certain shampoo (Healthy Sexy) I have problems. My hair always seems to thin and it seems to lighten. It’s just horrible!! If it’s really thinning or just causing so much buildup it appears that way I have no idea. Are there any ingredients in this that would cause hair to thin or anything? I was having problems at the time and stopped using it but then I started again when my hair was really dry cause it helps with dryness.

    Water/Aqua/Eau, Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Ammonium Chloride, Argania Spinosa Kernel Oil, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter,Glycerin, Panthenol, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Extract, Benzophenone-4, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Oil, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Guar HydroxypropyltrimoniumChloride, PEG-12 Dimethicone, PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate, PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides, Glycol Distearate, Polysorbate 20, Disodium EDTA, Citric Acid, Propylene Glycol, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Fragrance, Benzyl Alcohol, Benzyl Benzoate, Citral, Citronellol, Geraniol, Linalool, Limonene, Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde.

    One product I’ve started using recently (after the thinning already happened) that I really like (except for the horrible smell) is Aveda Dry Remedy Oil. It makes my hair a lot softer and less tangles. Just really nice. And no silicones which is a huge bonus. If they could just make it fragrance free, I’d be one happy girl!!

    Thank you for all your help by the way!!


    Etos – I’m not trying to be rude but comments like yours really annoy the heck out of me and make me wanna throw the computer at the wall haha jk I understand you are trying to help but I have EXPERIENCED color and straightening both numerous times. Both with bleach and with dye. With the dye my hair appeared very healthy. With the bleach, it needed a little help but it could still be saved.

    The pictures I see online are not photoshopped with extensions. On google yeah it’s possible. Not all but a lot of them. Girls I personally know that I see their hair in person on a daily basis? No. Extensions are VERY obvious to me even when the person has done a good job. No matter how they are applied, I can always tell. It’s just so obvious. And when you see someone in person, photoshop doesn’t apply. I have seen TONS and TONS of blondes at school who straighten/curl their hair and it “appears” very healthy. Is it actually healthy? No and I get that. It can’t possibly be. I’m not trying to get healthy hair. I’m trying to get hair that “appears” healthy like all of them have. I’d be perfectly happy with having blonde wavy hair that appears healthy to everyone, even if it’s damaged from the inside out. If it appears healthy, then I’m happy. And like someone said before (might have been firefox I’m not sure), their hair could be not as curly as mine and that’s true. A lot of them have naturally wavy hair so it’s not as dry naturally but I’ve seen naturally curlies pull it off too (and curly hair is dominant so a lot more people have it than what we see). This is definitely not impossible to achieve seeing as tons and tons of people are doing it. Is it silicone products that are making it appear healthy? Could be. But whatever they are using, it is appearing healthy and nice despite their bleaching and heat use.
  • BlondeBeautyBlondeBeauty Registered Users Posts: 71
    Oh it was actually Zeldahime who said that, my mistake.

    Zeldahime - As far as the blonde dye, this doesn't happen. They have to bleach in order to get it light enough to do a blonde dye. I'm a naturally blonde and all the blondes I know, their hair turned light brown which still requires bleach. You can tell what their natural color is cause it will grow in at the roots and it's always brown. So they can't put a blonde dye over brown, it has to be bleach. At least this is the case with all the girls I know anyway.
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Registered Users Posts: 3,750 Curl Neophyte
    If you are shedding hair excessively at the roots see your family doctor or a dermatologist. If its breaking off mid shaft that is likely a sign you have damage - consider a microscope analysis from Goosefootprints on Etsy.

    Other than that I don't think I can help you any more than I have, you are disagreeing with everything that doesn't fit with what you want to do and were impolite to Etos.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • aspenaspen Registered Users Posts: 154 Curl Neophyte
    I'm not sure what kind of help you're looking for, because you're refusing to stop a lot of habits that are proven to cause damage and negatively affect the health of your hair. There is no magic trick to having the health of natural, gently treated hair while abusing your hair with bleach and heat.

    Also, I was a professional colourist at a very high-end salon long enough to know what I'm talking about.

    Just because hair 'looks' healthy doesn't mean it is, and there is only so long you can fake. Give me ten minutes with a blonde girl with a fried head, a round brush and a blow dryer and I can make her look good as new- key word here being 'look'. Just because you are temporarily smoothing the cuticle with heat and product does not mean it is any healthier, and it WILL degrade over time.

    I had my hair bleached and dyed blonde for ages and yes, at first it looks nice, but you have stripped your hair and the longer it stays on your head the worse it will look. Keep in mind that every time you run heat over your hair you are doing damage, so of course your hair will look worse after you've been curling/straightening after bleaching for months than it did when you first started.

    Bleaching DOES cause breakage and can cause hair loss, and there is no way around it. Some people are luckier to have healthier hair than others, but everyone is different and I doubt you know the exact circumstances of their hair. Considering you also have a scalp condition, I would imagine your hair health situation is already a little worse than theirs.

    You have to weigh what is important to you, short term or long term beauty? Would you rather your hair look 'fake' pretty now and continue to destroy it, or have beautiful and healthy hair in the long run that will last the rest of your life?

    When I worked at the salon girls in your situation would come in, I would refuse to do their hair because it was falling out and breaking, they would go somewhere else and it would be ruined- and then come back crying. Unfortunately there was nothing I can do, all the colour treatment in the world won't bring your hair back from the dead.

    Keep in mind that people will likely find your hair more beautiful when it is healthy and fresh looking, than fried into fake curls and falling apart.
    3A-3B / Medium / High Density / Low Porosity
    Modified CG
    Low poo: Creme of Nature Argan Oil Moisture & Shine
    Conditioner: Curls Unleashed NB
    Leave in: Creme of Natura Argan Oil Strengthen & Shine
    Styling Product: Curl Keeper/ Curly Solutions gel
  • thecurlycockneythecurlycockney Registered Users Posts: 28
    The same happened to me hun and I revived my hair with regular protein treatments and trims! I used Redken CAT, Joico K-Pak Re constructor and Aphogee like crazy. Your hair literally sucks it up after bleach as it desperately needs to repair the keratin complex! Even now 2 years later, I swear by regular protein treatments. I'm always using good oils like coconut and avocado to keep moisture locked in too.

    After being blonde the best thing you can do is go dark again (if you can), trim every 4-6 weeks until the dead dead hair is gone and just try to restore what you can with protein treatments. The key as well is to be as kind to the hair as possible, no (if possible) sulfates, heat or tight styles.

    I remember my hair took about 3-4 months until I saw a significant improvement.....hope this helps!
  • BlondeBeautyBlondeBeauty Registered Users Posts: 71
    I went to the doctor. She could tell something was going on internally. I got a blood test done so I should have the results soon. I’m not shedding hair, it’s not coming out. It’s just thinning/growing in thinner.

    Firefox - I might have been wrong about the blonde dye because I remember reading about you telling someone on this board that you go blonde with a blonde dye that contains peroxide. Which one do you use & does it have PPD? Is my hair light enough to do that? I’m a natural blonde blonde and my hair is light brown now. I was not impolite to Etos and if I was I didn’t mean to be. I even put I’m not trying to be rude. It is difficult coming to a board where most embrace their curls and basically getting attacked for not embracing mine. I appreciate the advice of the people on this forum but it is my choice how I choose to wear my hair. I am an adult, it is on my head. I have not been happy with my curly hair for at least 10 years now. Even when it was at its healthiest. I just simply do not like curly hair. I don’t. I love wavy hair and I even like curls that come from a curling iron but naturally curly. Just don’t like it. That’s just my opinion. But I do still have naturally curly hair so I come to this board. There is a straightening/relaxing section and also a keratin services and treatment section on this board so not everyone embraces their curls. I am looking for advice on how to achieve what I am looking for instead of being told I can’t. Because I can since I came VERY close to achieving it before. Bleached/straightened for about a year. Damaged yes but beyond recovery? No.

    Aspen – I appreciate your opinion and expertise. I truly do. How long do you mean by there is only so long you can fake? Cause I have friends who have been both bleaching/straightening since freshman year of high school and they are now juniors in college and their hair looks healthy and nice. Plus new hair frequently grows in.

    TheCurlyCockney – I agree that protein treatments, trims, and oils are key!! Thank you very much. I really think right now my hair might need protein cause what happens is when I take a shower and I’m getting it wet before I shampoo, my roots are completely saturated. They absorb the water very well. But midshaft to ends it barely absorbs it. It’s wet but it’s not anywhere close to as wet as the roots. So it might need protein. Does that sound like it? I actually bought a Redken protein treatment that I have yet to try, I need to do that.
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Registered Users Posts: 3,750 Curl Neophyte
    Nobody is attacking you, we are being (perhaps a little brutally) honest and helpful. It is a simple fact that chemically lightened hair is not healthy, nor is frequently heat styled hair. Healthy = virgin and gently cared for, relatively 'young' (very long hair has old/ damaged ends due to 'weathering').

    I dye myself and sometimes wear my hair straight (air dried), I am not embracing my natural colour any more than you are embracing your natural curls and I am comfortable with that decision. My hair appears in relatively good condition but it is not virgin, is overly porous and thus cannot be described as 'healthy'.

    That is fact not insult regardless if I say it myself or someone else says it to me. I have posted for advice on long hair forums and had the (completely reasonable and logical) recommendation to stop dying if I want healthy waist length hair.

    I use Garnier Nutrisse Radiant Blondes, free of PPD as far as I know but you'd be wise to check ingredients yourself. Couldn't tell you if it would be potent enough for you, it works on my dark mouse if I wear a shower cap to trap body heat during processing. Hair strand tests and skin patch tests are the way forwards.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • sixelamysixelamy Registered Users Posts: 4,157 Curl Novice
    I bleached and flat ironed together for only less than a year. Been flat ironing for long before the bleach. I had my hair looked at under the microscope, and the cuticles were cracked and damaged where I flat ironed, and where the bleached part was, I had no cuticle at all.

    From your statements in your posts, it sounds like you want hair that "looks" healthy, but not necessarily *is* healthy. I don't think anybody would really want to help you with that, as we care about the health of hair, for it to truly *be* healthy. You've been given some great advice here. If you'd like to continue with bleaching and heat, by all means do so... but your hair will never be at a healthy state.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • thecurlycockneythecurlycockney Registered Users Posts: 28
    I went to the doctor. She could tell something was going on internally. I got a blood test done so I should have the results soon. I’m not shedding hair, it’s not coming out. It’s just thinning/growing in thinner.

    Firefox - I might have been wrong about the blonde dye because I remember reading about you telling someone on this board that you go blonde with a blonde dye that contains peroxide. Which one do you use & does it have PPD? Is my hair light enough to do that? I’m a natural blonde blonde and my hair is light brown now. I was not impolite to Etos and if I was I didn’t mean to be. I even put I’m not trying to be rude. It is difficult coming to a board where most embrace their curls and basically getting attacked for not embracing mine. I appreciate the advice of the people on this forum but it is my choice how I choose to wear my hair. I am an adult, it is on my head. I have not been happy with my curly hair for at least 10 years now. Even when it was at its healthiest. I just simply do not like curly hair. I don’t. I love wavy hair and I even like curls that come from a curling iron but naturally curly. Just don’t like it. That’s just my opinion. But I do still have naturally curly hair so I come to this board. There is a straightening/relaxing section and also a keratin services and treatment section on this board so not everyone embraces their curls. I am looking for advice on how to achieve what I am looking for instead of being told I can’t. Because I can since I came VERY close to achieving it before. Bleached/straightened for about a year. Damaged yes but beyond recovery? No.

    Aspen – I appreciate your opinion and expertise. I truly do. How long do you mean by there is only so long you can fake? Cause I have friends who have been both bleaching/straightening since freshman year of high school and they are now juniors in college and their hair looks healthy and nice. Plus new hair frequently grows in.

    TheCurlyCockney – I agree that protein treatments, trims, and oils are key!! Thank you very much. I really think right now my hair might need protein cause what happens is when I take a shower and I’m getting it wet before I shampoo, my roots are completely saturated. They absorb the water very well. But midshaft to ends it barely absorbs it. It’s wet but it’s not anywhere close to as wet as the roots. So it might need protein. Does that sound like it? I actually bought a Redken protein treatment that I have yet to try, I need to do that.

    Yep it definitely sounds like you need protein! Whenever you do anything chemical, always try a protein treatment. By bleaching, you're stripping away the outer cortex and exposing the keratin bonds, so naturally as the cuticle is damaged, the protein kinda just falls out. Your hair won't be able to retain any moisture (water) and it'll just end up falling apart. Redken CAT is great but if you find you need something heavier, I recommend the Aphogee Two Step Treatment. Also look for shampoos/conditioners and leave ins that contain protein too. Redken Anti Snap again is a perfect leave in for bleached hair. I've found L'Oreal Triple Resist is a good protein rich range, Palmers are excellent too as they contain hydrolyzed keratin (plus it's really cheap).

    Treat your hair like a little bodybuilder! As we need protein to grow and become stronger when we damage our muscles in the gym, so does our hair when we damage it too. Protein rich products in conjunction with regular trims and oils should help you to keep your hair healthy whilst having the colour you like. You may not be able to have tailbone length hair with bleach in it but I don't see any reason why you can't achieve mid back or even waist length if you're willing to put in the upkeep.

    On my YouTube channel, my videos are mostly dedicated to growing out damaged curls by colour and bleach and as you can see from my videos, it's definitely working! Another great YouTuber to watch is Electrik TV, I can't recommend her enough! She's always bleaching her hair every other week yet her curls are still long and healthy.

    As long as you replace what's been taken out of the hair strand, you'll be able to maintain bleached hair for months/years until you're ready to trim it off! Hope his all helps, it's expensive and time consuming but you'll be able to do it :)
  • thecurlycockneythecurlycockney Registered Users Posts: 28
    Also do regular Apple Cider Vinegar rinses to keep the cuticle flat and the protein and moisture in the shaft. Our hair is acidic so when we put diluted ACV, it responds by shutting the cuticle. A lot of women don't do this after they bleach and they end up paying the ultimate price. Bleach has a PH of 10, as a strong alkaline it'll leave your cuticle open even after the bleaching process is over. So ACV rinses really are one of the best ways to maintain bleached hair. Sorry for my long essays, even though your hair is damaged by the bleach, these tips will help to extend the length of life your hair has left before reaching breakage point by strengthening the cortex, this in turn will give you the appearance of healthy hair. Trimming will be essential to you as unfortunately bleached hair is still damaged hair.

    Also, if you want straight hair, instead of using heat have you tried roller-setting and wrapping? If your curl pattern is loose enough, you should be able to roller set your hair when damp after a wash (do it tightly so that the waves/curls come out smooth) and the wrap it overnight with a good oil like argan/coconut. When you undo the wrap in the morning, the hair should be straight. It won't be poker straight like a flat iron, but it will be a much healthier method of having the style you like x
  • thecurlycockneythecurlycockney Registered Users Posts: 28
    Here's a good video on low heat straightening! The youtuber has coloured hair too so it's definitely relevant for you!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUmeAWhZs2U

    x
  • ZeldahimeZeldahime Registered Users Posts: 223
    Nobody is attacking you, we are being (perhaps a little brutally) honest and helpful. It is a simple fact that chemically lightened hair is not healthy, nor is frequently heat styled hair. Healthy = virgin and gently cared for, relatively 'young' (very long hair has old/ damaged ends due to 'weathering').

    I dye myself and sometimes wear my hair straight (air dried), I am not embracing my natural colour any more than you are embracing your natural curls and I am comfortable with that decision. My hair appears in relatively good condition but it is not virgin, is overly porous and thus cannot be described as 'healthy'.

    That is fact not insult regardless if I say it myself or someone else says it to me. I have posted for advice on long hair forums and had the (completely reasonable and logical) recommendation to stop dying if I want healthy waist length hair.

    I use Garnier Nutrisse Radiant Blondes, free of PPD as far as I know but you'd be wise to check ingredients yourself. Couldn't tell you if it would be potent enough for you, it works on my dark mouse if I wear a shower cap to trap body heat during processing. Hair strand tests and skin patch tests are the way forwards.

    QFT!

    BlondeBeauty: We aren't attacking you. What we are trying to do is help you to understand the difference between truly healthy hair, and faking the look of healthy hair. The less you do to your hair, the less you will have to do to it to make it "look" healthy.

    I, too, just like Firefox chemically treat my hair still. In fact, I don't even embrace my natural curl! My hair is now is still dyed and relaxed! So my hair is far from being healthy in the technical definition of the word, but am I faking it? IMHO, yes. My hair now "looks" as healthy as it did in HS when all I was doing was dying my hair and using low heat/no heat techniques for straightening my hair. I'm happy with that. Taking care of my hair this way is still much easier than when it was bleached and using low heat/no heat techniques for straightening my hair or just dying it and using high heat to straighten it. Even then, I didn't reach this level of satisfaction with my hair until I realised that even though I had been pretending to have straighter hair (and still am), I still needed to take care of it as curly hair.

    Now I've been dying and manipulating my hair for over 20 yrs now with only a 3 yr break a few yrs ago. Yes I did try going natural for 3 yrs. Others may love it, but it's not for everyone. ;) However, in all those years of screwing with my hair the two worst things for killing my hair IME is bleaching it and/or high heat styling it.

    Of course my hair is different from yours. Mine is naturally a level 2 very dark brown and now I just dye it the same colour to cover the greys. In my case to get blonde hair, yes, bleach was required. So you want healthier looking lighter hair. Well here's my advise (to be taken or not is your decision.)


    If your hair is naturally a lighter brown colour right now, then all you do need is a dye to get blonde hair. *No bleach required!* My Mum and sis have light/medium mousy brown hair naturally and have easily achieved a blonde hair colour this way. My Mum did this for over 30 years just using a L'Oreal box dye from the store. If your hair is the light brown colour now from a dye, it will need to be removed with a dye remover; bleach still isn't required.

    Determine how light you want the colour to be. If you want a light blonde colour get the lightest one. Your result will be somewhere inbetween since the end result is always a mixture of your natural colour and the dye. If you hair goes brassy with lightening (though I can't see that being too much of an issue with your hair already being quite light) go with an ash undertone to help neutralise it. If it goes just a little brassy you can go with just a neutral undertone dye. Oh and don't buy anything that says "hi-lifting" since it's not required and more damaging.

    This should get you the colour you wish to achieve. Then you can just upkeep your roots and baby your hair with PTs, DTs and gentle hair care. Low heat and/or no heat techniques should easily straighten your hair. Wrapping my hair was always a favourite of mine when I was younger and had the length and time to do it.
    Very fine, high porosity, currently dyed and growing out the relaxed portions. I'm pretty sure my hair's 3b something IIRC. We will be finding out for sure as time goes by.
  • wavydazewavydaze Registered Users Posts: 2,065 Curl Novice
    What about stretching/straightening your hair with no or low heat, like How to get curly hair styles | Get the look with Curlformers See the "waves" option. You can use their bonnet (which I have and use regularly) with low-heat or air dry. These may be what you are looking for that can help alter your pattern with minimal damage. Check out "shalimarcat" on youtube, she has some no-heat straigthening tutorials, I'm sure there are others.

    As far as bleaching, I'm confused, you're a natural blonde but want to go blonder? Or you're a brunette and want to go blonde? Is your hair virgin (undyed, unprocessed) now?

    Maybe you can consider what is the darkest shade of blonde you are comfortable so that you don't have to lift as many shades. Consider lightening with honey... it is still damaging as all lightening is, but you can control how much you lift as each treatment will lighten you a little bit. You can better control when to stop.

    Bleaching and high heat straigthening will be super harsh on your hair, so if you want to be both blonde and wavy, I would recommend going no-heat or low-heat wavy with alternate (non-straigthtener, non-curling wand) methods, and minimize the amounts of shades that you lift. I think that will give you the look you want and have your hair look the best at the end.

    Hope this helps!
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • PseudoavatarPseudoavatar Registered Users Posts: 14
    The blonde girls with healthy hair might just naturally have blonder or more resilient hair than you have. If they only bleach or dye their hair a couple of shades blonder, naturally it doesn't get as damaged as it might get if you need to lighten it many shades blonder. This is because harsher bleaching concentrations are used on darker hair. It's also possible that they're not bleaching, but just dying their hair a different tone, which is gentler on their hair. Or, they might just have a more resilient hair type that can take more damage than yours.
    If you have trouble with your hair now, you are probably doing something with your hair that just doesn't agree with your hair type. It doesn't mean that somebody else couldn't get away with it. I recommend that you change your routine one thing at a time and see if there's any improvement. If you want shiny hair, is heat really necessary? You might be able to get the same gloss by tying your hair when it's still wet. I recommend visiting thelonghaircommunity, they have excellent directions on how to get healthy hair.
    Growing out natural hair color and transitioning from -cones and SLS to more natural hair care.
  • CurlyShorty3405CurlyShorty3405 Registered Users Posts: 196
    The only time my naturally brunette hair is blonde is in the spring/summer, and it gets blonde from the sun. And even the sun taking color out of your hair, albeit naturally is just as bad as bleaching it. Taking the natural color out of your hair is awful, I used to get highlights and now when the natural sun takes the color out of my hair, in October or November, I always go to my holy grail salon and get it dyed back to my natural brunette color. Also if you want to keep it healthy, keep the heat styling and bleaching to a minimum and deep condition it. A really good at home deep conditioning treatment is 100% pure virgin coconut oil. A really good salon deep condition treatment is the Paul Mitchell Awapuhi Wild Ginger KeraTriPlex deep condition treatment, it puts keratin back into your hair.
    2B-2C Density-Medium/High Width-medium Length-Medium

    LoPoo: Onesta Hydrating Shampoo
    CoWash: LP Curl Conditioning Wash
    ROs: Onesta Hydrating Conditioner, LP Curl Detangling Rinse
    Weekly DC: LP Restore Mask Treatment
    Leave in: LP Restore Targeted Repair Cream
    Stylers: (in application order): LP Prime Style Extender Cream, LI, LP Curl Defining Style Cream, LP No Frizz Weightless Styling Spray, LP PHD Night Cap
    Sealer: Body Shop Olive Oil/Body Shop Argan Oil/Josie Maran Argan Oil

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