Advertisers and Solicitors Posting on the Board

perfectlyfrizzycurlsperfectlyfrizzycurls Registered Users Posts: 39
I feel a little uncomfortable with advertisers and people who make and sell products posting on the board. There seems to be some sort of conflict of interest. Also every time this has happened it has not turned out well. The Curve incident when they posted, the CurlsGURU posts etc.

I’m not sure what else to say about it but, it just doesn’t seem right.
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Comments

  • GooCurlGirlGooCurlGirl Registered Users Posts: 28
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C P:
    I feel a little uncomfortable with advertisers and people who make and sell products posting on the board. There seems to be some sort of conflict of interest. Also every time this has happened it has not turned out well. The Curve incident when they posted, the CurlsGURU posts etc.

    I’m not sure what else to say about it but, it just doesn’t seem right.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Shockingly enough, I agree with CP. I feel weird about it also. It just doesn't seem right. jmo
    Delete me please. What I considered a nice honest place to find good info has now become one big advertisement.
    Have a great day!
  • webjockeywebjockey Registered Users Posts: 2,786
    I personally do not have a problem with advertisers posting as long as they respect the dynamics and the culture of the board. I think Spider has done a great job of not using the board to promote Kenra/Elucence/ElastaQP stuff but just to provide info and help if needed. When advertisers post (privately or publically) in a defensive or emotionally charged manner, they loose credibility.
    hello.world.
  • perfectlyfrizzycurlsperfectlyfrizzycurls Registered Users Posts: 39
    Spider owns Kenra/Elucence/ElastaQP or is this person an employee? You can't compare ownership to being an employee.
  • webjockeywebjockey Registered Users Posts: 2,786
    She's an employee. You're right it's not the same but the motivation to be part of something successful is still there.
    hello.world.
  • MichelleMichelle Administrator Administrators, Moderators Posts: 742 Administrator
    My position on this is that if they're responding to questions about their product in a thread, they are providing a service. As long as they are up front about it and identify themselves, I believe that's fine. We don't, however, want companies to post their own threads to sell their products. That crosses the line.

    Michelle icon_smile.gif

    [ May 08, 2003: Message edited by: michelle breyer ]
    Michelle
    co-founder
    NaturallyCurly.com
  • CurliLocksCurliLocks Registered Users Posts: 10,573 Curl Connoisseur
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michelle breyer:
    My position on this is that if they're responding to questions about their product in a thread, they are providing a service. As long as they are up front about it and identify themselves, I believe that's fine. We don't, however, want companies to post their own threads to sell their products. That crosses the line.

    Michelle icon_smile.gif

    [ May 08, 2003: Message edited by: michelle breyer ]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree. As long as we know who they are up front and don't promote their products.

    Remember Don Allen?!?! icon_rolleyes.gif
    SF Bay Area, CA * "The Angel-Goddess-Guru of Haircoloring" :D
    3b/c/a mix. medium texture, low porosity
    My Motto: Strand Test! some hair pics
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] -- gone, but never forgotten.
  • perfectlyfrizzycurlsperfectlyfrizzycurls Registered Users Posts: 39
    I think when someone says they don't like a product and the owner of the line starts posting and asking them questions it creates an enviroment where people may not feel comfortable giving full brutally honest reviews of products. I think product reviews take on a whole new vibe when you know the creator will come online and try and dispute your opinion.


    JMO
  • CGNYCCGNYC Registered Users Posts: 4,938 Curl Connoisseur
    I was just going to post about the Don Allen debacle.

    I agree that I feel weird posting negative reviews about a product when the person who owns the line is likely to respond.
  • AustinAustin Registered Users Posts: 37
    I agree CP, especially with your second post.

    While I don't think they should post, period, if they must, it should only be to answer a question and not to advertise their product. I don't think they should ever question someone's review of their product, bogus review or not. This isn't the place.
    "Time wounds all heels."
  • SpiderSpider Registered Users Posts: 3,381 Curl Neophyte
    I wasn't around for the Don Allen thing, but my very first post here, I came right out and said who I was. As time went on I spent more time on the non-hair board. My point of posting anything related to my company was only to help clarify a quesition, or offer technical/ingredient information. Most of the time I don't participate in threads about my company's products because I know there are curlies out there with better opinions and tips than I can offer. I usually monitor the threads to read the feedback.

    And I've also recommended/reviewed other brands products that work for me, because I'm a true believer that not every product works for everyone, and that I should use what works for me. Pretty plain and simple.

    All feedback, positive or negative -is helpful to a company- no one should feel they have to refrain from saying what they want.
    Don't let your heart be broken. Let it love.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,060 Administrator
    *Spider, I PM'd you*
  • webjockeywebjockey Registered Users Posts: 2,786
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Austin:
    I don't think they should ever question someone's review of their product, bogus review or not. This isn't the place.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I completely agree. Posting a negative review directly to the corporate website, or directly to the product owner is a completely different animal to posting a negative review on a hair board and should be treated as such by advertisers/industry people. I also missed the Don Allen debocale but I think I have a pretty good idea what went down.

    I have no problem with companies responding publically to questions directed to the company or to clarify things. I also have no problem with companies who ask individual posters additional questions about their product only if the poster gives permission to do so.
    hello.world.
  • CurlsWannaHaveFunCurlsWannaHaveFun Registered Users Posts: 251
    I think it is a very fine balance in this situation.

    I think it's great that people who know the products intimately can offer insight/give solicited advice regarding them.

    However I agree that it is inappropriate to challlenge/dispute reviews of product given (assuming they are valid of course). If a person wishes to address this, the proper venue would seem to be email or pm. It can come across a bit bullying.

    Jessicurl for example I think has done a wonderful job striking this balance.
    4a with 3c patches/LOIS daughter O/S spongy fine, natural since 1999

    Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence.
    - Vince Lombardi
  • sosocurlisosocurli Registered Users Posts: 3
    It's the questioning from the advertisers/sellers that bugs me. If they are here to be informative and ANSWER questions.. great! But to start QUESTIONING the people that dont like the product is way to confronting. The poster will be as descriptive as they see fit when praising or otherwise about a product icon_rolleyes.gif , so unless you are a fellow curly asking for more information, it just seems way to invasive...

    My thoughts . icon_redface.gif

    -one
    PEACE, BLESSINGS, and much love!
    password: pudding

    3c-4a:
    Perfectil;
    SHAMPOO - mastey trait; CONDISH - Elucence moisture bal; STYLING - AG -Re:coil & Curly Pudding.
  • bouncebounce Registered Users Posts: 297
    I had no idea that Spider works for Kenra, and we are both on the boards all the time.

    Sounds like a good balance to me.
  • GooCurlGirlGooCurlGirl Registered Users Posts: 28
    Jmo but I don't think they should post there about their products.
    It's kind of taken away a lot of the freedom I once felt when posting there.
    Spider, just for the record I have never once felt preassured to purchase anything the company sells. You have always been very helpful and I appreciate it.
    Delete me please. What I considered a nice honest place to find good info has now become one big advertisement.
    Have a great day!
  • curlsntexascurlsntexas Registered Users Posts: 3
    OK being a newbie here, I feel the need to say that I agree with C P.....also since I am new I don't know who the advertisers are...I did not know that Spider had anything to do with Kenra/Elucence/ElastaQP until now. While it is not that big a deal if their logon names reflected their products it would be easier to identify who is who. icon_confused.gif
    2c-3a waist length...much better hair after going low-poo
    Love Sally's generic brands of Infusium, and FX mousse
  • jerezjerez Registered Users Posts: 1
    I agree with C P. Sellers/Advertisers should not question reviews about their products, or write about their businesses being "hurt" by negative reviews.

    [ May 09, 2003: Message edited by: tiheri ]

    [ May 09, 2003: Message edited by: tiheri ]
    3b
  • legendslegends Registered Users Posts: 3,073
    I also agree with CP. It was inapropriate(sp?) for CURLSguru to respond to negative reviews of her products on the board.
    Eres o te haces?
  • out of controlout of control Registered Users Posts: 8
    I don't have any problem with it. As has been stated over and over again, different products work for different people and different hair types. We are not being forced or coerced to buy any products. It is just information and opinions.
    Michelle
    wavy/loose curls
  • SweetPicklesSweetPickles Registered Users Posts: 850
    Unless I'm mistaken, Jessicurl was a member here BEFORE she started her line of products, and she solicited much feedback and input from the other curlies here as she was developing them, in order to help create products that folks might like. It seems unfair and wrong to suggest that perhaps she shouldn't be allowed to post here anymore or that there's a conflict of interest, just because she is now making and selling her product line, when she has been a loyal and supportive NC member for some time.

    [ May 09, 2003: Message edited by: SweetPickles ]
    Hair type: Completely confused: mostly 3a, some 3b parts, and even 2 in places; very fine and thin.
    Products: Elucence clarifying & MBC; CK, F/X Curl Booster Fixative Gel (when I can find it)
  • DIYerDIYer Registered Users Posts: 1
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SweetPickles:
    Unless I'm mistaken, Jessicurl was a member here BEFORE she started her line of products, and she solicited much feedback and input from the other curlies here as she was developing them, in order to help create products that folks might like.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Indeed, Jessicurl not only solicited feedback, I think it's safe to say that she got her idea for starting her business from another NaturallyCurly.com member.

    Katalia posted her recipe for flax seed gel in response to my post about paying $8 for an 8-ounce tube that worked great but smelled bad.

    Jessicurl did some web-surfing, made adjustments to the original recipe and then solicited marketing help from NC.com boards.

    IMO, Jessicurl and Curlsguru are way too promotional for my comfort.

    I thought NC.com was supposed to be a forum for sharing experiences with products and techniques, not for promoting specific products in which we have a financial interest.

    I think that anyone who pays for ad space on this site shouldn't be posting about that product.

    Truth be told, I wondered often if Jessicurl and Alterna were one in the same. While it's reassuring to know that's not possible, I do still wonder if Alterna has a financial interest in Jessicurls' products.

    [ May 12, 2003: Message edited by: DIYer ]
  • jada1111jada1111 Registered Users Posts: 829
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by webjockey:
    I personally do not have a problem with advertisers posting as long as they respect the dynamics and the culture of the board. I think Spider has done a great job of not using the board to promote Kenra/Elucence/ElastaQP stuff but just to provide info and help if needed. When advertisers post (privately or publically) in a defensive or emotionally charged manner, they loose credibility.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    YES!! This is so true! When Curve posted to defend themselves awhile back, I lost respect for them. There was no need for them to do that, because there were plenty of people on the board that had great experiences at the salon. Not a good business move at all.
    Jada1111

    HAIR TYPE: 4a all over/3c around nape/edges; Last relaxer -4/4/02; Big chop - 4/16/03

    http://public.fotki.com/jada1111/
    PW: flower
  • GooCurlGirlGooCurlGirl Registered Users Posts: 28
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIYer:


    Indeed, Jessicurl not only solicited feedback, I think it's safe to say that she got her idea for starting her business from another NaturallyCurly.com member.

    A woman in North Carolina (I can't recall her online name) posted her recipe for flax seed gel in response to my post about paying $8 for an 8-ounce tube that worked great but smelled bad.

    Jessicurl did some web-surfing, made adjustments to the original recipe and then solicited marketing help from NC.com boards.

    IMO, Jessicurl and Curlsguru are way too promotional for my comfort.

    I thought NC.com was supposed to be a forum for sharing experiences with products and techniques, not for promoting specific products in which we have a financial interest.

    I think that anyone who pays for ad space on this site shouldn't be posting about that product.

    Truth be told, I wondered often if Jessicurl and Alterna were one in the same. While it's reassuring to know that's not possible, I do still wonder if Alterna has a financial interest in Jessicurls' products.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I thought the same thing. icon_eek.gif
    Delete me please. What I considered a nice honest place to find good info has now become one big advertisement.
    Have a great day!
  • yadagiyadagi Registered Users Posts: 10
    [/QB]When advertisers post (privately or publically) in a defensive or emotionally charged manner, they loose credibility.[/QUOTE]

    Totally agree with Webjockey, I felt this was immature behavior,and felt very uncomfortable reading it.

    Not everyone is going to like every product they try.
    While I don't agree with all the stuff that is going on either with regards to the alias's I want to be able to say if a product is rubbish for me and not have the owner or employee of that company ?? me about it.This put's me off even wanting to try them.

    [ May 10, 2003: Message edited by: yadagi ]
    always have an open mind
    3a/3b dark brown shoulder length coarse ,medium thickness and hardly frizzy anymore.
    Thank you NC.com
  • webjockeywebjockey Registered Users Posts: 2,786
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jada1111:


    YES!! This is so true! When Curve posted to defend themselves awhile back, I lost respect for them. There was no need for them to do that, because there were plenty of people on the board that had great experiences at the salon. Not a good business move at all.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree to a certain extent. Internet advertising is very new to a lot of people and advertising to message boards is even trickier, especially if you are used to traditional media. I've been in the new media industry long enough to know that these dynamics are not easy to enterpret, even for the seasoned marketer. The good news is that recovery from such snafoos can be achieved much faster in this media if companies take the time to listen, evaluate, and respond appropriately.


    What Curve did was not the smartest marketing move, but I would still recommend them for what they know best - cutting hair.
    hello.world.
  • MichelleMichelle Administrator Administrators, Moderators Posts: 742 Administrator
    This is just to reassure everyone that they can be completely honest with their reviews. That is the key to the success of this site. We will do everything in our power to make sure everyone feels comfortable doing that.

    michelle icon_smile.gif
    Michelle
    co-founder
    NaturallyCurly.com
  • GretchenGretchen Administrator Moderators Posts: 10,840 Curl Virtuoso
    This is a really interesting thread and gives us a lot to think about as we embark some pretty big changes here at NC.com (you'll hear more soon!).

    At any rate, thanks everyone for your thoughtful points; we may incorporate some of your ideas into future dealings with advertisers.

    Gretchen
    NaturallyCurly.com co-founder
    3A

    You are beautiful!
  • l'olmsteadl'olmstead Registered Users Posts: 4
    yeah, this issue has sort of bugged me. this board is usually a utopia of a message board, but its weak point is the possibility for exploitation for people who have a financial interest in a certain line of hair-care products.
    maybe a new forum could be opened up just for people to post questions to representatives of hair lines? and the companies could pay for it? like advertising. we're over 10,000 members aren't we here at nc.com and i'm sure companies would be willing to respond, and it would give members with hair lines a place to discuss their products.
    just a thought, i hope it helps!
    &: ) <----me (with curly hair)

    3b corkscrews that run free
  • caresscaress Registered Users Posts: 32 Curl Connoisseur
    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jada1111:


    YES!! This is so true! When Curve posted to defend themselves awhile back, I lost respect for them. There was no need for them to do that, because there were plenty of people on the board that had great experiences at the salon. Not a good business move at all.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Does anyone know how Curve found out that they were being discussed here? Was it Isis or another one of their customers that told them? I just wonder what prompted them to do what they did. Just curious.
    type 4a/b

    "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

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