CurlTalk

CGM not working?

My hair is still SUPER frizzy and too big and poofy. Sometimes it feels dry, and curls are not really coming through.... not too much of a difference since I quit shampoo 6 weeks ago. Also quite afraid my hair is weighed down because it is so long, maybe that is the reason that my curls look so awesome when wet, but dull afterwards? I am starting to lose hope... Tips would be highly appreciated. :)

- Type 2, probably 2A
- Porosity - very low
- Density - medium-high
- Hair width - coarse
- Length - Long
- Rarely oily hair

Routine: (wash my hair about 1-2 times a week)
- If extremely tangled (which is quite often) i brush my hair before showering
- Wet my hair (hot water), massage conditioner into scalp for 2 minutes, rinse while massaging.
- Distribute conditioner throughout the hair, comb through, leave in for 5 minutes.
- Rinse out (cold water)
- Wait 5 minutes for it to not be so soaking wet, then scrunch some water out. (My hair can continue dripping for about 20 minutes if I don`t. :thumbdown: )
- Apply a peanut size of curl cream and gel (my hair gets build up quite quickly), scrunch with a cotton-sweater for 3-5 minutes.
- Plop my hair for about 20-40 minutes.
- Diffuse my hair until 80% dry. (I really don`t have the patience to do it any longer) (10 minutes)
- wait till it dries, done.
- OR, if it is really late, i just keep the plop in overnight, and diffuse in the morning.

Hair products;
Clarifyer (if needed) - Paul Mitchell Tea Tree Special Shampoo
Conditioner - TRESemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture Conditioner / Jason Natural Sea Kelp Conditioner
Curl cream - Kerastase Nutritive Oleo-curl Definition Crème
Gel - AVG

Also, I have not trimmed my ends in like 6 months, I AM going to do so, I`ve just been quite lazy. :albino:
- Type 2, I think 2B
- Porosity - very low
- Density - medium-high
- Hair width - coarse
- Length - Long
- Rarely oily hair, I can not wash my hair for 1 week ++


:thumbright:

Comments

  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users
    Just did a quick google search - your curl creme seems to have silicones and oil in it.

    This means that once it coats your hair strands no moisture can get through and it's likely not washed off with just co-washing leading to dry hair.

    Quite a few of the reviews complain about having the same problems you have.

    I would suggest you change your curl creme and use a different alcohol free gel with more hold.
  • Geek_ChicGeek_Chic Posts: 1,255Registered Users
    Since your curl cream contains silicones, I would clarify with a sulfate free (silicone free) low poo that contains Cocamidopropyl Betaine or Cocobetaine, or use a sulfate shampoo (silicone free) if you prefer. Then, you might try some of your Tresemme Naturals as a leave in conditioner in place of the curl cream. If it's turned cold where you are, alove vera gel is a humectant, which means that in dry air, it can pull moisture out of the hair, causing poof and frizz. You may want to find a silicone and glycerin free drugstore gel instead (glycerin is also a humectant).

    Additionally, your shampoo contains sulfates and several water soluble silicones according to the list I found on drugstore.com:
    Water (Aqua), Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Oleamidopropyl Betaine, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Mentha Piperita (Peppermint) Leaf Oil (Peppermint), Melaleuca Altemifolia (Tea Tree) Leaf Oil (Tea Tree), Linoleamide DEA, Cocamide DEA, Bisamino PEG/PPG 41/3 Aminoethyl PG Propyl Dimethicone, Hedychium Coronarium Extract (White Ginger), PEG 12 Dimethicone, Bisamino PEG/PPG 41/3 Aminoethyl PG Propyl Dimethicone/Algae Extract, Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Extract, Lawsonia Inermis (Henna) Extract (Henna), Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Extract (Jojoba), Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract (Rosemary), PEG 12 Dimethicone, Lavandula Angustifola Oil (Lavendar), Triticum Vulgare (Wheat Germ) Oil (Wheat), Panthenol, Glycol Stearate, Polyquaternium 7, Tetrasodium EDTA, PEG 150 Distearate, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Magnesium Chloride, Magnesium Nitrate, Limonene, Citric Acid, Blue 1 Lake (CI 42090) (CI 42090), Yellow 5 Lake (CI 19140)

    While water soluble silicones will wash out during a conditioner wash, they aren't what I want in a clarifying shampoo. I might tolerate 1, but definitely not 4 if I'm clarifying. If you want to keep a sulfate shampoo around for clarifying, I'd choose one that is silicone free. Suave Naturals and VO5 have several varieties. Pick one that's protein free if you're sure you have coarse hair, i.e. nothing "hydrolyzed", no amino acids, and no "protein" or things that contain protein (collagen, egg, soymilk, milk, etc.). I don't know how often you're clarifying, but the sulfates may well be extending your transition period, drying your hair out and causing your scalp to dry out and produce more oils in response.

    If your hair is tangled before a shower, I wouldn't brush it, as brushing causes damage. Instead, wet the tangled areas, then apply conditioner and detangle gently from tip to root with a wide tooth comb. Let the conditioner soak in for a bit if the tangles are bad, before you start detangling.

    If your hair is truly low porosity, you might want to do your final rinse with warm water, then apply your curl cream or leave in and gel. Cold water closes the cuticle down, but low porosity hair already has a closed cuticle. Maybe instead, do a super soaker with cold water after you've applied all your products if you feel the need.
    CG since 11/2011
    2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

    Go To Products /Routine:
    Clarifying: Suave Essentials Strawberry
    Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
    CO: Suave Essentials Strawberry, V05 Kiwi Lime
    RO /LI: Tresemme Perfectly (un)Done, Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze, Suave Essentials Strawberry, Renpure Brazilian Keratin (old formula)
    Stylers: LALSG, AIF, HETT, Suave Professionals Firm Control
    PT: IAGirl's as needed
  • Brigettelowe521Brigettelowe521 Posts: 94Registered Users
    I completely agree with Geek_Chic's comment. You should neverrrr brush your hair. It causes damage and frizz. Only comb (with a widetooth comb) your hair when it's wet and has conditioner in it - in the shower or after your shower with leave in conditioner in. I didn't notice if you use a leave in conditioner or not. For me, this is vital for moisture and defrizzing. Also, it's a good idea to use a deep conditioning treatment about once a week. It will really help a lot. Good luck!
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,156Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    What are you using as far as regular cleansing? Are you using the Tresemme for both cowash and conditioner? Ditch the silicones, invest in a good cowash or low poo, and a great deep conditioner.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • curlygirl42curlygirl42 Posts: 21Registered Users
    Thank you so much for all the help!! :notworthy::notworthy:
    I really was not aware of all the silicones I`ve been having in my hair. I guess i need to restart the whole CG process. And obviously there is a lot of new products i need to buy. And most of them needs to be ordered online, probably amazon as that is the only place i can find american drugstore products that send to Norway.
    when it comes to deep conditioning, would it be best to diy something or buy one?

    Also, would Jason Sea kelp conditioner work as a good cowash?
    Ingredients
    Aqua (water), Cetearyl Alcohol, Stearyl Alcohol, Stearalkonium Chloride, Aleurites Moluccana Seed Oil, Laminaria Digitata Extract, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice (1), Calendula Officinalis Flower Extract, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract, Citrus Grandis (Grapefruit) Seed Extract, Equisetum Arvense Leaf Extract, Lanvandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower/ Leaf /Stem Extract, plumeria Acutifolia Flower Extract, Zingiber Officinale (Ginger) Root Extract(1), Ascorbic Acid, Linoleic Acid, Linolenic Acid, Panthenol, Retinyl Palmitate, Tocopheryl Acetate, Tocopherol, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Panthenyl Ethyl Ether, Panthenyl Hydroxypropyl Steardimonium Chloride, Cyclopentasiloxane, Dimethicone, Glycerin, Glyceryl Stearate,Polysorbate 60, Alcohol, Benzyl Alcohol, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Benzyl Benzoate, Coumarin, Fragrance (Parfum).
    (1)Certified Organic Ingredient
    - Type 2, I think 2B
    - Porosity - very low
    - Density - medium-high
    - Hair width - coarse
    - Length - Long
    - Rarely oily hair, I can not wash my hair for 1 week ++


    :thumbright:
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,156Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    DIY conditioner... just add some coconut oil and honey to your regular conditioner. It works great!
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • Brigettelowe521Brigettelowe521 Posts: 94Registered Users
    The deep conditioner I love is the Aussie 3 minute miracle - but it has a silicone in it. I only use it once a week & I never have build up which is what you're trying to avoid w/ silicones - they just sit on your hair & cause buildup, but I guess my sulfate free shampoo gets rid of the one in my DC (gentle cleansers do get rid of buildup). I've heard Curl Junkie makes some good deep treatments. I did a search on the forums for deep conditioners and there are tons of topics so you may wanna browse there. I'm thinking about trying As I Am Hydration Elation Intensive Conditioner for a DC. For a leave in conditioner I love As I Am & Kinky Curl Knot Today. The As I Am is a bit more moisturizing though. That cowash you listed has at least 2 silicones in it - anything ending in cone, xane, or conol is a silicone, so if you're trying to avoid silicones then that's not the cowash for you. I don't cowash (I use a sulfate free shampoo & a good RO conditioner), but I have heard tonssss of good reviews about As I Am cowash. I hear it's really great & it's cheap. If I was gonna cowash I would try the As I Am b/c I love their leave in. I found most of my products by looking at reviews on naturallycurly & searching the forums. 😄

    These are 2 sites I use for my ingredients checks:

    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.livecurlylivefree.com%2Fproduct%2520ingredients.htm" class="Popup

    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/celebrities/ingredients-commonly-found-in-hair-care-products
  • curlygirl42curlygirl42 Posts: 21Registered Users
    :idea1:
    Also, you said i should update my clarifyer because it had so much bad silicones in it. Will shampoos that don`t contain sulfate OR silicone work to get the silicones that I now have in my hair out?
    Because a lot of people say Neutrogena Anti-Residue works great, but can I use it? :goofy:


    [[Edited in:: I think I`ll try diy-ing some first then, the way you said sixelamy, thanks :) If that does not work I`ll look more into what Brigettelowe521 recommended! :)

    I guess Jason sea kelp co is no good..]]
    - Type 2, I think 2B
    - Porosity - very low
    - Density - medium-high
    - Hair width - coarse
    - Length - Long
    - Rarely oily hair, I can not wash my hair for 1 week ++


    :thumbright:
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,156Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    :idea1:
    Also, you said i should update my clarifyer because it had so much bad silicones in it. Will shampoos that don`t contain sulfate OR silicone work to get the silicones that I now have in my hair out?
    Because a lot of people say Neutrogena Anti-Residue works great, but can I use it? :goofy:


    Edited in:: I think I`ll try diy-ing some first then, the way you said sixelamy, thanks :) If that does not work I`ll look more into what Brigettelowe521 recommended! :)
    \

    I use Neutrogena Anti-Residue when I get buildup, and I love it - it works great! There's no harm in using a sulfate to get buildup out once in a while. Doesn't mean you're any less of a curly girl. Just don't use it every time you wash. I use mine maybe once a month-ish or when I use a product that makes my hair feel gunky or coated.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • Brigettelowe521Brigettelowe521 Posts: 94Registered Users
    I agree with Sixelamy. It's okay to use a sulfate shampoo once in awhile to get rid of buildup. I believe that my sulfate free shampoos get rid of any buildup I my have. They do have gentle cleansers in them that work for me 😉
  • curlygirl42curlygirl42 Posts: 21Registered Users
    sixelamy wrote: »
    :idea1:
    Also, you said i should update my clarifyer because it had so much bad silicones in it. Will shampoos that don`t contain sulfate OR silicone work to get the silicones that I now have in my hair out?
    Because a lot of people say Neutrogena Anti-Residue works great, but can I use it? :goofy:


    Edited in:: I think I`ll try diy-ing some first then, the way you said sixelamy, thanks :) If that does not work I`ll look more into what Brigettelowe521 recommended! :)
    \

    I use Neutrogena Anti-Residue when I get buildup, and I love it - it works great! There's no harm in using a sulfate to get buildup out once in a while. Doesn't mean you're any less of a curly girl. Just don't use it every time you wash. I use mine maybe once a month-ish or when I use a product that makes my hair feel gunky or coated.

    Alright, thanks :)
    I`ll go search a couple of stores tomorrow to check if they have Neutrogena then, and if not I`ll just order that + a cowash + herbel essences set me up gel :)

    [[ Not sure about the cowash though, because I`ve read tressemme naturals is a great cowash... so I am not quite understanding why i should buy a different one. After I`ve saved some money, then maybe ;)]]
    - Type 2, I think 2B
    - Porosity - very low
    - Density - medium-high
    - Hair width - coarse
    - Length - Long
    - Rarely oily hair, I can not wash my hair for 1 week ++


    :thumbright:
  • Geek_ChicGeek_Chic Posts: 1,255Registered Users
    For some with finer hair, Tresemme is too heavy to use as a cowash and they get overconditioned. Since you already have it as a RO, I'd try it as a cowash too. If you find you end up with droopy curls and mushy hair over time, then get a cowash that's less rich. VO5 (not the Professionals line) and Suave Naturals are two good options if you can get them where you are. The British Curlies website should have a list somewhere on their forum of CG friendly cowashes that are available in the EU.

    If you want a low poo (sulfate free shampoo) that will remove silicones, look for one that has Cocamidopropyl Betaine or Cocobetaine in the ingredients list. However, as Sixelamy and others have said, using an occasional sulfate shampoo isn't a deal breaker and won't undo all the CG progress you've made. It's more the cycle of sealing moisture out with 'cones and stripping them off with a routine sulfate shampoo that is a problem for many. Just be sure to use a good moisturizing conditioner after you use the sulfate shampoo. If you want a more gentle sulfate shampoo, you might check out Curly Hair Solutions Treatment shampoo. It's not drugstore, but those that use it really like it. Most find it more gentle than some low poos.
    CG since 11/2011
    2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

    Go To Products /Routine:
    Clarifying: Suave Essentials Strawberry
    Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
    CO: Suave Essentials Strawberry, V05 Kiwi Lime
    RO /LI: Tresemme Perfectly (un)Done, Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze, Suave Essentials Strawberry, Renpure Brazilian Keratin (old formula)
    Stylers: LALSG, AIF, HETT, Suave Professionals Firm Control
    PT: IAGirl's as needed
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,156Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Be sure you get the CG friendly version of the set me up gel. Apparently there's different formulas floating around. My store had the CG friendly one recently, its a great gel.

    I view an occasional sulfate wash as doing what is neccesary for getting the moisture back in your hair. You just have to figure out the appropriate times to use it. Deep conditioning after is a must. I found polyquats to be horrible on my hair, which almost every product I had contained them. It led me to clarify like 3 times in two weeks. Made my hair a bit drier, but didn't ruin anything. Haven't had to clarify since ditching them.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • curlygirl42curlygirl42 Posts: 21Registered Users
    Found a lot of really cheap shampoos and conditioners that are cg-friendly in my local store. So I`m going to experiment using them as a cowash and RO, hoping to find the perfect match.
    I also bought Schwarzkopf got2be glued blasting freeze spray, which is also cg. And Schwarzkopf got2be guardian angel heat protection for those (hopefully very) rare days i decide to straighten my hair :) (CG)
    Also I am not sure how I am with proteins yet. I mean, my hair is already frizzy. How would I know if protein won`t help? :/ I do have coarse hair, and I have a lot of hair. But how can I be sure? :/

    Hoping this will work and I`ll start seeing some differences, though! :)
    - Type 2, I think 2B
    - Porosity - very low
    - Density - medium-high
    - Hair width - coarse
    - Length - Long
    - Rarely oily hair, I can not wash my hair for 1 week ++


    :thumbright:
  • sixelamysixelamy Posts: 4,156Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Usually coarse hair doesn't do too well with protein. If you use it and it makes your hair dry or straw-like, then it isn't for your hair.
    2c-3a - med-coarse - normal-high porosity - high density
    :bunny:
    NP/LP: CJ Daily Fix, KMF Whenever / Giovanni TTTT
    RO/LI: Aussie Moist, CJ Argan & Olive Oil, Hask Keratin Protein
    DC/PROTEIN: KC Stellar Strands / CNPF
    STYLER: CJ Curl Queen
    COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
    :thumbdown:: glycerin in high/low dews, polyquat-10 & 11, parabens
  • curlygirl42curlygirl42 Posts: 21Registered Users
    sixelamy wrote: »
    Usually coarse hair doesn't do too well with protein. If you use it and it makes your hair dry or straw-like, then it isn't for your hair.

    Alright, then I guess I`ll find out as I go :)
    - Type 2, I think 2B
    - Porosity - very low
    - Density - medium-high
    - Hair width - coarse
    - Length - Long
    - Rarely oily hair, I can not wash my hair for 1 week ++


    :thumbright:
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    You have had some good advice already. Just to add that if you don't get the results you hope for try chelating (removing mineral build up) and/ or have a hair analysis. It's not uncommon for people to get their properties wrong, the DIY tests for porosity have been debunked for example.
    THE NATURAL HAVEN: Junk Science - Hair Porosity Tests / Float or Sink
    The Wavy Library: GoosefootPrints Hair Analysis with My Analysis Results
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • curlygirl42curlygirl42 Posts: 21Registered Users
    You have had some good advice already. Just to add that if you don't get the results you hope for try chelating (removing mineral build up) and/ or have a hair analysis. It's not uncommon for people to get their properties wrong, the DIY tests for porosity have been debunked for example.
    THE NATURAL HAVEN: Junk Science - Hair Porosity Tests / Float or Sink
    The Wavy Library: GoosefootPrints Hair Analysis with My Analysis Results

    I am 99% sure I have low porosity hair. When I did the sink or float test quite some time ago it floated for a day, and could probably float a lot longer. Haha :)

    The analysis looks so interesting, and if all fails, this will definitely be my plan B. Thanks :)
    - Type 2, I think 2B
    - Porosity - very low
    - Density - medium-high
    - Hair width - coarse
    - Length - Long
    - Rarely oily hair, I can not wash my hair for 1 week ++


    :thumbright: