Lower layer won't hold curls

JimipeJimipe Posts: 276Registered Users
So, I'm 1½ month into my CG-routine and I'm starting to get a bit impatient.

My upper layers, no matter the length have nice big spirals all the way from the root. Shrinks about 5-8 inches from wet to dry depending on length.

The bottom layer though... It has some spiral tendencies when wet. I can scrunch up a lot more. But even with leave-in + gel they stretch out. Last time I even tried to keep the top layers up so that they won't weigh it down + use my hair drier just a bit to get the gel cast going. Result? Despite nice spirals when I put the dryer down and somewhat spirally when almost dry, a couple of hours later and I just have an s-wave and a half-spiral bend at the ends. I've even let it dry up in "pin-up curls" style, and they are gorgeous when let down but a few hours later and they are close to straight. Again.

This part of my hair seems to be in worse condition than the rest. The lowest layer in the front behaves the same as in the back, even though it sits higher up, but it is also the most sun bleached out of all the hair I have. The nape hair seems to drink up conditioner and needs it clearly to not tangle up completely, so these parts seem to be the more damaged parts of my hair...

I think I've got low porosity otherwise, my hair takes forever to dry and the good parts do not absorb butters and oils well, while these parts loves it. I think the hair strands are medium with clearly high density.

So, is there anything I can do? Could it be that this hair really is a lot straighter than the rest? Or could it improve over time? I'm currently very tempted to cut off a couple of inches from it as it sticks out below the curly parts, which is annoying. :( At the same time I do realise that if it might slowly get better it is probably better to wait with any more drastic measures.
CG since 8th of September 2013 - learning in progress!

3a/m/iii - waist length wet
Cleanser: Naturelle Volumizing
Conditioner/LI: Garnier Respons Avocadooil and Shea Butter, Schwarzkopf Gliss Ultimate Volume Conditioner
Styling: Eldorado Hairgel Strong

Comments

  • RytokaRytoka Posts: 309Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    My underlayer is the same, I have been CG since Feb and they got a bit curlier but not much. You could try waiting more if you are seeing some improvement. I did decide to trim the area shorter so I didn't have that odd shelf. Turned out nice
    Katie
    2C/3a, Medium Texture, Normal porosity, High Density, Normal Elasticity (so says the LCLF Hair analysis)
    Co Wash: As I am
    RO: Yes To Carrots / Ion
    LI: Biotera / Samy Big Curls Defining Cream
    Gel: FSG, Volumax (Original and Mega)
    Color: Henna
    Tools: Diffusing
    :thumright:
  • JimipeJimipe Posts: 276Registered Users
    At least I'm not alone then... I will probably wait some more time and see what happens before starting to cut it off, but definitely an option. By the way, I took a peak on your profile, your hair looks just like mine! :D And we seem to have the same hair properties too, though I'm not absolutely sure of my porosity...
    CG since 8th of September 2013 - learning in progress!

    3a/m/iii - waist length wet
    Cleanser: Naturelle Volumizing
    Conditioner/LI: Garnier Respons Avocadooil and Shea Butter, Schwarzkopf Gliss Ultimate Volume Conditioner
    Styling: Eldorado Hairgel Strong
  • RytokaRytoka Posts: 309Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Ooooooh!!! Maybe a twin??? What products are you using?
    Katie
    2C/3a, Medium Texture, Normal porosity, High Density, Normal Elasticity (so says the LCLF Hair analysis)
    Co Wash: As I am
    RO: Yes To Carrots / Ion
    LI: Biotera / Samy Big Curls Defining Cream
    Gel: FSG, Volumax (Original and Mega)
    Color: Henna
    Tools: Diffusing
    :thumright:
  • Lady_CreoleLady_Creole Posts: 400Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It is one of two things:

    1-Did you have some sort of straightener in your hair before you went CG? If so, then that is the part that is still straight and needs to be trimmed off.

    2-Hair has weight and our curls have a tendency to loosen up as our hair gets longer. After the "big chop", I thought my hair was a 3C however as it begins to get longer, it is a 3B in the back and sides and a looser 3c on the crown but blending as all my hair grows longer.

    I hope this helps...:thumbup:
    My hair is "exotic, beautiful and free",,,yeah, that be ME!!!
    3B/C - Easy to straighten, [no heat ever/no protect. styling].

    Low Porosity/Medium Density
    Mid Width/BSL-stretched/
    BC - 12/2012

    I am a "Co-Wash/Finger Comb Lady!
    Scalp Cleanser - SM ABS Purification Hair Masque
    Co-wash - Tresemme Naturals
    Hydration - SM CH
    Curl & Style Milk
    LOC - Organic Coconut Oil
    Styler - SM CH Curl Smoothie
    Deep Cond. - SM Yucca & Plantain Masque
  • JimipeJimipe Posts: 276Registered Users
    It is one of two things:

    1-Did you have some sort of straightener in your hair before you went CG? If so, then that is the part that is still straight and needs to be trimmed off.

    2-Hair has weight and our curls have a tendency to loosen up as our hair gets longer. After the "big chop", I thought my hair was a 3C however as it begins to get longer, it is a 3B in the back and sides and a looser 3c on the crown but blending as all my hair grows longer.

    I hope this helps...:thumbup:

    1. No chemical straighteners, had it flat ironed once this summer, and the last time before that? Like at least 4 years ago.

    2. My longer hair higher up has no such problems... The last experiment I even put my upper layers up to avoid having them weighing my hair down (I have waist length hair and a lot of it, so the weight probably affects it. With it at shoulder length it just goes out-of-control.) cut some really nice spirals forming but they just stretch out. Even when I let it shape naturally, and then pinned up the natural spiral shape and it dried nicely, but as soon as I let it out it stretched and stretched and stretched and then almost all curl was gone....

    But thank you. :)

    As hair that is 6 inches longer does not have this issue I'm starting to think that it most likely is more about either a straighter underlayer (which doesn't seem to uncommon with my curl pattern) or that this hair just is much more damaged. It does tangle so so easily, while the rest of my hair currently only needs detangeling like once a week. And it soaks up oils, while the rest of my hair can only take really well in rinse-out conditioner. And potentially the hair colour that still is in the hair + the flat ironing + all the sun this summer + the general roughness to this hair section just means that it's not in a quite as good shape as the rest?
    CG since 8th of September 2013 - learning in progress!

    3a/m/iii - waist length wet
    Cleanser: Naturelle Volumizing
    Conditioner/LI: Garnier Respons Avocadooil and Shea Butter, Schwarzkopf Gliss Ultimate Volume Conditioner
    Styling: Eldorado Hairgel Strong
  • JimipeJimipe Posts: 276Registered Users
    Rytoka wrote: »
    Ooooooh!!! Maybe a twin??? What products are you using?

    Maybe. :) Can't be of much help out products though, I'm still trying stuff out and I don't have access to most things people here are using due to the country I live in. I've basicly got one of each CO-wash option people here tend to like and trying them one at a time to figure out what my hair prefers... :) Got some flax seeds yesterday too, so maybe I'll experiment with those someday.
    CG since 8th of September 2013 - learning in progress!

    3a/m/iii - waist length wet
    Cleanser: Naturelle Volumizing
    Conditioner/LI: Garnier Respons Avocadooil and Shea Butter, Schwarzkopf Gliss Ultimate Volume Conditioner
    Styling: Eldorado Hairgel Strong
  • rachaelpainterrachaelpainter Posts: 3Registered Users
    I'm curious where you are in your hair journey. I have long layers, and my hair has not recently been holding a curl well (though it did in the past).
    I have pretty curls when my hair is wet, and as it dries, they stretch and become more wavy, with the bottom 2 inches curled. I have thick, heavy hair.
  • JimipeJimipe Posts: 276Registered Users
    5½ month in now... At least there is still improvement. My buttom layers are now wavy and then a 1½ circle spiral at the end, which makes me suspect that they really are as curly as the top layers, only that there is more weight and these parts are more damaged. Interesting enough all the tangles I get at my nape start at my "before CG" hair while my "virgin hair" does not seem to tangle.

    I've learnt some things. I need heat to speed things up a bit. I need a lot of product, and it still won't be gunky or feel producty once I scrunch out the crunch. Managing to distribute it evenly is hard, As for now it seems like if I essentially apply everything in the shower with super-wet hair I can finger-comb it through and it will re-clump on it's own. That is another thing, for each week more and more of my hair "finds its way" to each curl better. The bottoms layers are just getting there. My hair clearly needs it's clumping to be able to work against gravity and curly pretty instead of just poofing.
    CG since 8th of September 2013 - learning in progress!

    3a/m/iii - waist length wet
    Cleanser: Naturelle Volumizing
    Conditioner/LI: Garnier Respons Avocadooil and Shea Butter, Schwarzkopf Gliss Ultimate Volume Conditioner
    Styling: Eldorado Hairgel Strong
  • xarielxariel Posts: 31Registered Users
    Try smoothing extra RO & LI conditioner on the bottom layer. I never thought my straight/2a bottom layer could curl given that my hair's hip length and it's never curled when shorter, but I've been trying this method the last few washes and I've found it works well. I just apply my RO as regular, then smooth in a quarter size puddle of my co-wash/LI conditioner (I use Suave Naturals for both). Then again after I've applied my LI as regular I smooth in an extra puddle for that underlayer. Also, while I don't use stylers currently, – waiting to chop my hair to go full CG :tongue5: – I'd think smoothing extra styler over the bottom layer would help even more.
    Mod CG since '09. CG as of 02/27/14.
    Medium texture, normal-low porosity, normal elasticity and density
    Products: VO5 KL (co-wash), GVPCB (RO/DT), SN (RO/LI), KCCC/BRHG/AVG (stylers)
    Techniques: Mod-IceQueen, Plopping (FST), Octopus clip roots, SOTC; Double pineapple
  • JimipeJimipe Posts: 276Registered Users
    Thank you, I will try that! :) I've realised that I need to find ways to really get the products in there because it's hard with all of this hair. Also, really appreciate the perspective from someone else with really long hair... :)
    CG since 8th of September 2013 - learning in progress!

    3a/m/iii - waist length wet
    Cleanser: Naturelle Volumizing
    Conditioner/LI: Garnier Respons Avocadooil and Shea Butter, Schwarzkopf Gliss Ultimate Volume Conditioner
    Styling: Eldorado Hairgel Strong
  • JimipeJimipe Posts: 276Registered Users
    New realisation... As I've started to wear my hair out and curly all the time instead of braiding it all the time I have much less tangles. The only part that really tangles is the same area that has issues holding curls. What is more interesting is that the last 4½ month, the tangled area keeps moving downwards. By September it started tangling at the root, now I have like at least 6 cm tangle free hair even if the tangles gets just as big. (which corresponds roughly to the amount of growth I've had the last couple of months, which I find really interesting because clearly I'm doing something right...).

    Could it potentially be that the hair here is too damaged to do much? I mean, the lower parts still have hair colour (I haven't coloured it in 2 years? 3 years? but my hair wet now reaches my hips so, well, there is still some), it has been flat ironed like 1-2 times a year which it really really does not like, I have to trim again right after because the ends gets all fried and icky.

    I clearly do have spiral tendencies now, it just isn't so cooperative, but I wonder if it could just be that it's so damaged it can't... Maybe time to keep my hair at waist length for a while to try to get the last of the coloured parts out and keep a long distance from any flat irons.
    CG since 8th of September 2013 - learning in progress!

    3a/m/iii - waist length wet
    Cleanser: Naturelle Volumizing
    Conditioner/LI: Garnier Respons Avocadooil and Shea Butter, Schwarzkopf Gliss Ultimate Volume Conditioner
    Styling: Eldorado Hairgel Strong

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