We’d like your help getting CurlTalk back on its feet!

By participating on CurlTalk — posting, commenting, liking — in the next few weeks, you will automatically be entered to win amazing prizes.

Our latest winner is Savagegirl!

CurlyCanadian, Bomega and EllaJ have also won wonderful prizes! Will you be next? Post, like, comment, GET ACTIVE and help us get CurlTalk ENERGIZED again!

Learn more!

Only sulphates get rid of silicones??

On several websites I've read that one can only get rid of silicone build-up by using sulphates, when on other websites they say that coco betaine or cocamidepropyl betain (low-poo) can do the job as well. What is true?
Does it depend on the kind of -cone perhaps?

2B-3A fine-medium/low porosity
krullenwijzer.blogspot.nl
2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP, JCCC, BRHG
Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl

Comments

  • Corrina777Corrina777 Posts: 3,193Registered Users
    Curl Chemist says coco betaine will do the trick, and considering her education and background, I'm believing her over any website. I can also say that I've tried even the strongest silicones (looking at you, dimethicone), and have had no issues using only low-poo (or even cleansing conditioners) with coco betaine.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    3a/f/iii
    Modified CG since 11/5/11
    CLEANSE: CJ Daily Fix, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
    RO: SS Caitlin's Conditioner, CJ Beauticurls Strengthening
    LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
    STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier,Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    Agree with Corrina trust scientists like Tonya McKay and the Natural Haven blog,
    What's the Scoop on Silicones?
    Amodimethicone and other Amine-functionalized Silicones
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • rapunzel4everrapunzel4ever Posts: 557Registered Users
    Thanks Corrina and Firefox!

    @Corrina: I thought so too, but reading all these different things made me doubt myself.

    @Firefox: thanks for the links.

    _____
    2b-c/3a med/fine- low porosity- normal elasticity, BSL
    2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
    Routine:
    Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
    RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
    acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
    LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
    Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP, JCCC, BRHG
    Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
    KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
  • alslgirl2002alslgirl2002 Posts: 210Registered Users
    My low poo in my siggy doesn't get out all of the cones, it has cocamidepropyl betain in it. I am in love with the tresemme gel in my siggy and have to clarify once per week to keep the buildup down even though the gel contains a supposedly water soluble cone. I dislike that I have to resort to harsher methods, but its not the end of the world either. I'd much rather have nice hair every day than the alternative. The clarifing poos that I use do not have sulfates so I think its the quantity of the coco-B in the poo that is key to removal of cones.
    Type 2B - 3A
    Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

    CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

    Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
    CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
    RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
    Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
    DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

    Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap
  • SuzyQ3SuzyQ3 Posts: 52Registered Users
    Agree with Corrina trust scientists like Tonya McKay and the Natural Haven blog,
    What's the Scoop on Silicones?
    Amodimethicone and other Amine-functionalized Silicones

    According to the Natural Haven blog on this issue, the implication is that cocamidopropyl betaine by itself is not as effective as are the sulfates:

    Alternatives to Sulfate Shampoos: Cocamidopropyl betaine
  • poxyfairyplumepoxyfairyplume Posts: 85Registered Users
    I think it depends on what type of water you have too. I have very hard water and low poos just don't do the trick with it. Since getting a shower filter put in, it's been much better.
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    That article appears to focus on the ability of detergents to dissolve oils, not silicones or polyquaterniums. A primary reason why low-poos are recommended over sulphate poos is that they don't strip hair of oil, which would leave it dry and unprotected.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • Morgan_AdcockMorgan_Adcock Posts: 2,573Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    One thing that seems to get left out when this question arises is that there is water solubility, and then there's water solubility. Some things dissolve readily, some slowly, and the proportions may also affect solubility.
    Peace,
    Morgan

    Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
    CGing since July 2008
  • SuzyQ3SuzyQ3 Posts: 52Registered Users
    That article appears to focus on the ability of detergents to dissolve oils, not silicones or polyquaterniums. A primary reason why low-poos are recommended over sulphate poos is that they don't strip hair of oil, which would leave it dry and unprotected.

    You're right. The article itself does focus on dissolving oils. But what I meant by the author implying that cocamidoproyl betaine might not remove all silicones was based on his or her answer to a question in the comments section.

    The question:
    would this be enough to cleanse if you co- washed and didn't use silicones (except water soluble ones) but say used polyquats? ty CHM
    The answer:
    CHM - polyquats similar to silicones tend to require SLS for removal. However this depends on how much is in the product and also some polyquats are 'easier' to remove than others. The best advice I can give is a watch and see approach. If you start experiencing build up then you know perhaps the shampoo is not good enough.

    It seems that the author is saying that silicones are similar to polyquats in that they need the harsher sulfates for removal.

    But even if that's true, that would apply only to the non-soluble silicones. BTW, I'm not necessarily agreeing with the author but was just pointing out to the previous poster that Natural Haven, as far as I can see, doesn't flat out state that cocamidoproyl betaine removes silicone build-up.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file