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Bradley Manning plans to live as a woman named Chelsea

The New BlackThe New Black Posts: 16,738Registered Users
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  • PerriPPerriP Posts: 6,613Registered Users
    I really don't have a lot of words on this

    well, maybe one or two

    I could care less if he wants to be called Chelsea and live his life as a woman

    I am not sure I think that taxpayers should pay for his hormone replacement therapy in prison, I'm pretty sure it's not a medical necessity

    I wonder about his safety in prison if he goes through hormone replacement therapy - do they keep him in a male prison?
    Modified CG since Dec 2011
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    PerriP wrote: »
    I really don't have a lot of words on this

    well, maybe one or two

    I could care less if he wants to be called Chelsea and live his life as a woman

    I am not sure I think that taxpayers should pay for his hormone replacement therapy in prison, I'm pretty sure it's not a medical necessity

    I wonder about his safety in prison if he goes through hormone replacement therapy - do they keep him in a male prison?

    The only prison he is eligible to be incarcerated in is Ft. Leavenworth which has already said they NOT give him hormones or gender reassignment treatments of any kind. Nor will they consider him a woman. They are willing to provide him w/ psychiatric care, however, they said.

  • PerriPPerriP Posts: 6,613Registered Users
    and his lawyer is saying he'll fight their denial to provide the service - I can't imagine he'd win- but the expectation that they should just bugs the crap (am I allowed to say crap??) out of me
    Modified CG since Dec 2011
  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
    Wait, what?!?!?!
  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 8,660Registered Users
    Let him...at his own expense. I'd love to have a face lift and tummy tuck to look younger. OMG!!! I'm a 20 year old living in a 62 year old body. BUT I don't expect anyone else to pay for it.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 11,970Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    He's a traitor. I don't think he should get anything beyond the bare minimum afforded other inmates. Free psychiatric treatment ? free hormone treatment? are you kidding me?
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  • FieryCurlsFieryCurls Posts: 2,904Registered Users
    He wouldn't be getting hormone replacement therapy if he were still in the military. I don't know why he thinks he would get it when going to prison.
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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    curlypearl wrote: »
    He's a traitor. I don't think he should get anything beyond the bare minimum afforded other inmates. Free psychiatric treatment ? free hormone treatment? are you kidding me?

    They're all entitled to psych care.

    Yes, I agree he is a traitor & a DISGRACE to this country. I'm surprised he's getting off so lightly. Treason is a capital offense (not that I personally agree w the death penalty).

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  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 8,660Registered Users
    They are so much more lenient today, which you would think it would be the opposite. I remember when my brother went into the military and he went AWOL. My dad was called and was told he needed to get his son back to the base. My dad said that in his time in the military anyone going AWOL would have been shot. Not that he wanted his son shot, but he was surprised he got a phone call to take care of the situation. I would think that if you are in the military you should be your own man and own up to whatever decisions you make and suffer any consequences.

    I'm just talking about being AWOL. Not treason. Come on...treason is jeopardizing the whole country.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • inheritedcurlsinheritedcurls Posts: 2,954Registered Users
    Lotsawaves wrote: »
    Let him...at his own expense. I'd love to have a face lift and tummy tuck to look younger. OMG!!! I'm a 20 year old living in a 62 year old body. BUT I don't expect anyone else to pay for it.

    No kidding.

    I hate that he got off so easy for being a traitor. His sentence is never going to make the next person stop and think...should I really do this?
  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 8,660Registered Users
    Exactly.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • curlypearlcurlypearl Posts: 11,970Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It's amazing to me what prisoners are entitled to that the rest of us have to pay for.

    ETA: Referring to the fact that apparently he is entitled to free psych care. I understand that it is considered medical treatment. While ordinarily I am a very sympathetic person, I am angry that this callous traitor, who endangered other people will get free care of any kind.
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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Narcissistic attn whore

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  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 8,660Registered Users
    Maybe I should break the law and go to prison so I can finally find someone to repair my back. I'll see you curlies in a year or so. Oh, wait a minute I'd have to kill someone to get off that light. I was thinking of robbing a Circle K. Must re-evaluate this.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • BluebloodBlueblood Posts: 1,748Registered Users
    Lotsawaves wrote: »
    Let him...at his own expense. I'd love to have a face lift and tummy tuck to look younger. OMG!!! I'm a 20 year old living in a 62 year old body. BUT I don't expect anyone else to pay for it.

    No kidding.

    I hate that he got off so easy for being a traitor. His sentence is never going to make the next person stop and think...should I really do this?

    Prison sentences rarely act as a deterrent as criminals don't expect to be caught.

    The only reason the majority of people don't go and commit serious crimes is to do with how you are socialised from a very young age.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Blueblood wrote: »
    Lotsawaves wrote: »
    Let him...at his own expense. I'd love to have a face lift and tummy tuck to look younger. OMG!!! I'm a 20 year old living in a 62 year old body. BUT I don't expect anyone else to pay for it.

    No kidding.

    I hate that he got off so easy for being a traitor. His sentence is never going to make the next person stop and think...should I really do this?

    Prison sentences rarely act as a deterrent as criminals don't expect to be caught.

    The only reason the majority of people don't go and commit serious crimes is to do with how you are socialised from a very young age.

    It's not a deterrent for some ppl who have either been locked up before, already have a worse life than prison or who think prison will raise their status.

    But I think for most of us, the thought of doing time is awful enough that it is definitely a deterrent!

  • multicultcurlymulticultcurly Posts: 5,132Registered Users
    Blueblood wrote: »

    No kidding.

    I hate that he got off so easy for being a traitor. His sentence is never going to make the next person stop and think...should I really do this?

    Prison sentences rarely act as a deterrent as criminals don't expect to be caught.

    The only reason the majority of people don't go and commit serious crimes is to do with how you are socialised from a very young age.

    It's not a deterrent for some ppl who have either been locked up before, already have a worse life than prison or who think prison will raise their status.

    But I think for most of us, the thought of doing time is awful enough that it is definitely a deterrent!

    I agree.

    I laughed out loud this morning when I heard this on the news. I wonder if this is a sympathy ploy. I have a hard time believing that he thought of himself as Chelsea before.

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  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    He can get the treatment at his own expense in 35 years.

    You go to prison because you did something wrong. You hate to be harsh but at some point you have to ask to what kinds of health care are criminals entitled? Dialysis 3 days a week or should they get that pump implanted that is often better? I'm okay with giving a female inmate a hysterectomy if needed but I'm not sure about a breast reduction. Yeah she might have some back pain or emotional pain, but should we pay for it to be alleviated? What about hip or knee replacements? As the baby boomers age in prison, might we see more of those kinds of requests?
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Myradella3 wrote: »
    He can get the treatment at his own expense in 35 years.

    You go to prison because you did something wrong. You hate to be harsh but at some point you have to ask to what kinds of health care are criminals entitled? Dialysis 3 days a week or should they get that pump implanted that is often better? I'm okay with giving a female inmate a hysterectomy if needed but I'm not sure about a breast reduction. Yeah she might have some back pain or emotional pain, but should we pay for it to be alleviated? What about hip or knee replacements? As the baby boomers age in prison, might we see more of those kinds of requests?

    Yes, esp. thanks to the mandatory sentencing laws; more ppl will be serving longer sentences.

    I think prison medical staff would reccommend treatment for anything anyone on the outside would have reccommended. A lot is currently spent on psychiatric treatment, incl psychiatric drugs! And I don't see that part changing any time soon.

    My friend is a corrections officer in a juvenile prison (12-21) and he has to take them to a big university Hospital when they need procedures too complicated to be done onsite. He says they have a lot of weird ailments -- peeing in two streams instead of one, hemmorhaged rectums (sodomizing one another), swallowing contraband, ingesting their own excrement, malnutrition from refusing to eat and pica...

    I would imagine it gets worse as the inmates get older. Lots of them (adults have serious psychiatric issues and HIV).

  • OBBOBB Posts: 4,174Registered Users
    hes releasing more information than i need to know
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    Let him...at his own expense. I'd love to have a face lift and tummy tuck to look younger. OMG!!! I'm a 20 year old living in a 62 year old body. BUT I don't expect anyone else to pay for it.
    You know, that's a really terrible thing to say. And I'm not singling out the person who wrote this, because they're not alone in this thread.

    The reality of being transgender is widely recognized by medical professionals and researches (even in Iran!), not to mention people who are themselves transgender. While being transgender is not a mental illness, it can lead to gender dysphoria. The DSM 5 defines gender dysphoria as "Discomfort with one's assigned sex or gender role" that "causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other areas of functioning." This distress is often extremely severe, and is compounded by the intense bigotry and violence aimed at transgender people. For many people with gender dysphoria, using hormones and/or surgery to transition is the only available treatment. It is a legitimate medical need made necessary by a legitimate medical condition.

    To dismiss being transgender as a frivolous cosmetic whim is, frankly, both bigoted and cruel. While bigotry is sometimes rooted in simple ignorance, there is also such thing as choosing to remain ignorant and refusing to learn or understand. Even if you don't have time to read the resources below, please accept that medical experts, and trans* people themselves, have verified that being transgender is real.

    From the American Psychological Association's Policy Statement on Transgender, Gender Identity, & Gender Expression Non-Discrimination:

    - APA supports the provision of adequate and necessary mental and medical health care treatment for transgender and gender variant individuals;
    - APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments;
    - APA supports access to appropriate treatment in institutional settings for people of all gender identities and expressions; including access to appropriate health care services including gender transition therapies;

    You can read the entire document here. It's fairly short.

    Other resources:
    APA, "Answers to Your Questions"
    Transgender FAQ
    A transwoman chronicles her transition at The Guardian.

    (edited for minor formatting problems)
  • geekygeeky Posts: 4,995Registered Users
    Thank you, Eilonwy.

    I wanted to respond but I was frankly too pissed at all the callous responses to be as rational as you were.

    Being transgender is a real thing, regardless of crimes that Manning has committed.

    The lawyers are certainly using this for sympathy (as they should, they are lawyers, it is their job to get every possible for their client) but this is not something they just pulled out of their asses for sympathy.

    If you have been following the case at all, manning mentioned gender identity issues going back as far a s 2009, before she was arrested.
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  • multicultcurlymulticultcurly Posts: 5,132Registered Users
    I don't think anyone is denying being transgendered is a real thing. For me, I find it odd that if he truly felt this way, how come this is the first time we are hearing about it.

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  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    This is not a necessity... he will not die without treatment.
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    This is not a necessity... he will not die without treatment.
    "Medical necessity" is not defined by whether a condition is fatal. Many nonfatal conditions are debilitating without treatment and accommodation: vision problems, dental cavities, bones fractures, arthritis, quadriplegia... And that's just a drop in the bucket.

    And, as I noted before, the experts and scientists at the APA agree that gender transition treatments are a medical necessity for many trans* people. Again,

    • Transgender and gender variant people may be at increased risk in institutional environments and facilities for harassment, physical and sexual assault and inadequate medical care including denial of gender transition treatments such as hormone therapy
    • APA supports the provision of adequate and necessary mental and medical health care treatment for transgender and gender variant individuals;
    • APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments;
  • EilonwyEilonwy Posts: 12,389Registered Users
    I don't think anyone is denying being transgendered is a real thing. For me, I find it odd that if he truly felt this way, how come this is the first time we are hearing about it.
    People are referring to Manning as "he," mocking the concept of having the wrong body, and dismissing the medical necessity of hormone therapy and surgery for many trans* people. I think if someone does those things, then they don't fully accept or understand the reality of being transgender.

    And like geeky said, this isn't the first time Manning has mentioned she's transgender. It's just the first time the news media are widely publicizing it.
  • OBBOBB Posts: 4,174Registered Users
    i was told by a gay friend that until the transformation the transgender is to be addressed as "he" or however that person wants to be addressed. but that was 20 years ago. i dont think we are mocking her by refering to her as a "he." i plead my ignorance on this topic. as for my comment about too much info i was speaking of the timing of the announcement. i didnt think with all the controversy over her trial and conviction it was the time to put out that info. i didnt realize Manning had put out the information previously. for me personally if i was going through this i would keep this a personal issue and as private as possible. but thats just me. being labeled a traitor is bad enough but also a transgender it will make her life unbearable. maybe her lawyer's motive is to avoid the male prison?
  • Myradella3Myradella3 Posts: 2,481Registered Users
    Death row inmates in Mississippi don't have air conditioning. Is that a necessity?
  • multicultcurlymulticultcurly Posts: 5,132Registered Users
    Eilonwy wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is denying being transgendered is a real thing. For me, I find it odd that if he truly felt this way, how come this is the first time we are hearing about it.
    People are referring to Manning as "he," mocking the concept of having the wrong body, and dismissing the medical necessity of hormone therapy and surgery for many trans* people. I think if someone does those things, then they don't fully accept or understand the reality of being transgender.

    And like geeky said, this isn't the first time Manning has mentioned she's transgender. It's just the first time the news media are widely publicizing it.

    This is the first time I have heard of him being transgendered. If he were already living like a woman before, which IMO it doesn't seem to be, then I agree he shouldn't be in the general population because he will probably be raped and/or killed.

    However, in American society, prisoners become nobody and are treated like animals. I find this sickening, especially for the inmates who will eventually rejoin society. They should have rights. After completing their sentence, they should regain their rights to vote and employment.

    The rampant ability to rape and hurt others shouldn't be so easy. And prisoners should receive medical attention. However, I don't agree Manning should have taxpayers foot the bill for his/her surgery. If he had already started, then that would be different. But then, I find it a little unbelievable that he was already living as a woman. If he had been, then I would be more sympathetic.

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  • The New BlackThe New Black Posts: 16,738Registered Users
    If you have a potentially debilitating condition that requires treatment (not that I agree this is one) then don't commit a crime and jeopardize your access to care.
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    "Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.
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