Ongoing log regarding my search for products

This started as a simple thread asking about a leave in conditioner but as I began to look into that particular question I began learning about ingredients and how they impact my hair and my own hairs properties.
So, I've decided to continue this thread to keep a log of my quest for products and update it as I try new things (as opposed to starting a new thread for every little question) I'm learning what my hair likes and doesn't like, I will post updates here and welcome any comments, questions, and most of all suggestions!



*here was my original post*
I need some suggestions for a good leave in conditioner that is really moisturizing and does not contain protein. I am still trying to figure all this stuff out. My hair is very coarse, dry, brittle, as well as thick and dense. My curls have a mixture ranging from 3B at the nape to 3A and 2C on the top.

I would appreciate suggestions for a cheaper drug store leave in as well as more expensive.

Thanks!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App
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Comments

  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    I would just like a few product suggestions from anyone that may have any ideas for my hair. I am new to this CG method and everything I used before was loaded with silicones. I used to love the redkin smooth down butter treatment as a leave in but that's a no no now.

    Does anyone have a few brands to suggest at all? I mean I know how to read the ingredients but I dont want to try blindly it would be nice to know which brands have worked or might work with my hair?
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,065Registered Users Curl Novice
    I like this leave-in a lot! It should work with your properties.

    Leave-In Conditioner - Conditioners - Hair Care
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    Thank you! Added it to my amazon wish list but my local walmart carries alba so I will see if they have it first. Looks like a pretty nice ingredient list.
  • curlicious13curlicious13 Posts: 1,632Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I like the Jane Cater line, the Shea moisture curl milk & smoothie, & the cantu coconut milk.
  • ajasminflowerajasminflower Posts: 2Registered Users
    Lately I've been using Dr.Bronner liquid castile soap to wash scalp (1 teaspoon in hand, lather with water, massage into scalp, rinse)

    Then I follow with their hair rinse. Many do Apple Cider Vinegar rinse
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    Lately I've been using Dr.Bronner liquid castile soap to wash scalp (1 teaspoon in hand, lather with water, massage into scalp, rinse)

    Then I follow with their hair rinse. Many do Apple Cider Vinegar rinse


    I looked at some of those brands of their rinses and leave ins and they contain ethanol, I don't put any alcohol in my hair (unless its a conditioning alcohol) So it sounds pretty drying.

    I know a lot of people use ACV, but I've used it and honestly it does abosolutely nothing for my hair, not a thing. I never understood all the rave. I tried using it for several weeks to see if continued use would make a difference and it did not.
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    I like the Jane Cater line, the Shea moisture curl milk & smoothie, & the cantu coconut milk.

    I have the shea moisture smoothie but it makes my hair feel kind of "gunked" up. It looks nice when i use it in combination with their souffle but it feels really gunky, sticky. If I use less it to cut back on the gunky feeling it doesn't work to control frizz and define curls.

    Is this the cantu product you are referring to?
    Amazon.com: Cantu Shea Butter Coconut Milk Shine and Hold Mist, 8.4 Ounce: Beauty
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I know a lot of people use ACV, but I've used it and honestly it does abosolutely nothing for my hair, not a thing. I never understood all the rave. I tried using it for several weeks to see if continued use would make a difference and it did not.

    Generally an acid rinse is required after using soap, it's highly alkaline and can leave a scummy residue too.

    Some of the products suggested are not true leave in conditioners, they are styling products. A true conditioner is rich in the major emollients (fatty alcohols and/ or cationic surfactants), these soften the hair, provide slip, help it hold the right amount of water, aid clumping/ frizz control.

    What is your porosity and dew points/ humidity? This affects product selection. Shea butter can build up for some people.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    Well I live in Florida so its pretty humid most of the time. ... which tends to make my hair 'grow" lol, but it also makes it kinkier which I kind of like. I've lived in FL my whole life so it's not a big deal to me, when I used to straighten winter time was always the best becuase its drier.

    I was thinking I have medium to high porosity. I can feel a little roughness when I slide my fingers up a piece of hair and it takes forever to dry.

    Currently I am using either VO5 or tresseme natural conditioner for my cowash and then the tresseme for the leave in, then I follow with the curl creams (currently shea smoothie or curls creme brule) then a gel.

    Tonight I was messing around a little. After my haircut I came home and cowashed with the V05, then a deep treatment with extra virgin olive oil and honey that I left on for an hour. Then I cowashed with the tresseme and rinsed really well with cold water, then some tresseme as a leave in.

    Then I put a very tiney amount of the shea curl smoothie and combed it through. Then a moderate amount of the creme brule and combed. Then the curls curl goddess gel. Combed. Then I scrunched some curl smoothie on the ends and then more gel. I scrunched over all this with a tshirt to soak up excess water and product. Then I took a tiney amount of castor oil and scrunched on the ends, Then I did that "plop" thing for an hour. Then I let it air dry and when it was dry I fluffed a little and scrunched a tiney bit of creme brule to finish it. Here is what I wound up with. To give you an idea of how much product my hair can handle... it does feel soft though, not gunky, though I'm about to go to bed so I have no idea how long it would last during the day. Ill see if I can refresh it tomorrow without completely soaking it down again (which is what I usually have to do) uploadfromtaptalk1375246169185.jpg
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    Well day 2 hair not so great. I think I wind up using too much product trying to combat frizz, I'm better off rinsing really well and restyling from soaking wet I think. It is dry but has a wet/producty look to it I dont care for uploadfromtaptalk1375287416782.jpguploadfromtaptalk1375287463954.jpg
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
  • KiraSavannahKiraSavannah Posts: 423Registered Users
    The smoothie can give you that feel, I would recommend the Shea Moisture milk, its a nicer feel. And better for losser textures in my opinion.
    I like the Jane Cater line, the Shea moisture curl milk & smoothie, & the cantu coconut milk.

    I have the shea moisture smoothie but it makes my hair feel kind of "gunked" up. It looks nice when i use it in combination with their souffle but it feels really gunky, sticky. If I use less it to cut back on the gunky feeling it doesn't work to control frizz and define curls.

    Is this the cantu product you are referring to?
    Amazon.com: Cantu Shea Butter Coconut Milk Shine and Hold Mist, 8.4 Ounce: Beauty



    Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App
    CG/LOC Method's 3b/3c hair SL-Curly/ Goal-MBL Curly:)
    Weekly Poo/Low Poo: some Shea M Poo.
    Weekly Deep Treat-Dermorganic Intensive Hair Masque
    Bi-Weekly RO:Tresseme Naturals - V.Smooth/N.Moisture
    Daily Leave in:Shea Moisture Extra Moisture Detangler
    Daily Oil: Olive Oil & Conut Oil Mix
    Daily Styler: Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk
  • KiraSavannahKiraSavannah Posts: 423Registered Users
    And the Dr.B, I believe the website said that the alcohol is in there to preserve the ingredients, since they're so organic.
    Lately I've been using Dr.Bronner liquid castile soap to wash scalp (1 teaspoon in hand, lather with water, massage into scalp, rinse)

    Then I follow with their hair rinse. Many do Apple Cider Vinegar rinse


    I looked at some of those brands of their rinses and leave ins and they contain ethanol, I don't put any alcohol in my hair (unless its a conditioning alcohol) So it sounds pretty drying.

    I know a lot of people use ACV, but I've used it and honestly it does abosolutely nothing for my hair, not a thing. I never understood all the rave. I tried using it for several weeks to see if continued use would make a difference and it did not.



    Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App
    CG/LOC Method's 3b/3c hair SL-Curly/ Goal-MBL Curly:)
    Weekly Poo/Low Poo: some Shea M Poo.
    Weekly Deep Treat-Dermorganic Intensive Hair Masque
    Bi-Weekly RO:Tresseme Naturals - V.Smooth/N.Moisture
    Daily Leave in:Shea Moisture Extra Moisture Detangler
    Daily Oil: Olive Oil & Conut Oil Mix
    Daily Styler: Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    I think I will try the moisture milk. I thought it might be too lightweight becuase most curl creme or any creme styler doesn't seem to be heavy enough for me. And on the other end of the spectrum, the heavier ones seem to be a tad too heavy. My hair is not normal .... lol. And I wish I could try every product I see without breaking the bank! All companies should sell samples of all of their products! Lol.
  • CarolinaCurlzCarolinaCurlz Posts: 30Registered Users
    I found the same thing with the SM curling smoothie, my hair felt gunky.

    I have been using Catwalk Curls Rock Curl amplifier as a leave in. I co wash, then condition and then I rinse my hair with cool water. After the cool rinse I shut off the shower and use the curl amplifier while my hair is still soaking wet. I I comb it through with a wide tooth comb and then get out of the shower. I scrunch my hair with a t-shirt so it's not sopping wet, then I apply Deva Curl AnGel. Then scrunch again. I let it air dry or if I'm in a rush I will difuse it. I get the hold without the gunk.
    2 b/c at the moment, 3a when not relaxed
    Medium Texture
    Normal Porosity

    devacutsept31_zpsa0184b9d.jpg
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    Does the catwalk curls contain silicones? Is it CG friendly?
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,065Registered Users Curl Novice
    Though I haven't tried the SM Smoothie, the SM Milk won't be too light... they both contain oils and some low-porosity people have issues with both.

    The Alba B. LI is richer but not as heavy if you get what I mean. Don't get me wrong, I like the SM Milk, but if you have dry, damaged hair the Alba B one may be better. It's considered a "true conditioner" because it has a mixture of fatty alcohols, (coconut) oil, cationic surfactants, panthenol etc. (as well as a bunch of "botanicals" which are in small concentration and probably negligible). Anyway, I think it's a very balanced conditioner ingredients-wise. I've used it in very high dews without problem.

    Oh by the way I think your hair looks great! Shiny and not dry nor damaged.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    Thank you, I am definitely gonna pick up some of the Alba conditioner.

    I'm not crazy about the cut, I think becuase to make it look good it needs more layers but I purposely asked for very few long layers becuse its easier to trim and maintain while growing it out. But being this short it doesnt have much shape and at the end of the day I had a case of pyramid head. I'll probably be rocking the poofy ponytail on days I work. But I'm still hoping a good leave in will help aid the issue.

    Here is the end of the day poofuploadfromtaptalk1375332525960.jpg
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,065Registered Users Curl Novice
    Hmm if growth during the day is your problem then it might be a high dew + humectant issue. Having well-conditioned hair is going to help with the frizz, but you'll also need a good gel that doesn't have glycerin high up on the list, or for me, aloe high up on the list. KCCC doesn't work for me in high dews either, because the sugars are humectants and don't stand up well to the humectants.

    What gel(s) are you using and what are the ingredients?

    You may want to look at Chloe92us's siggy... check out the gels she uses; she also lives in FL. I think she layers gels so uses a filler gel layer and tops it with a hard hold gel.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • CarolinaCurlzCarolinaCurlz Posts: 30Registered Users
    Does the catwalk curls contain silicones? Is it CG friendly?

    It has Cyclomethicone, which is "slightly soluble". I co-wash every other day and have no issues with build up. Here is a description:
    Girl with Curl: Bad versus Good silicones
    2 b/c at the moment, 3a when not relaxed
    Medium Texture
    Normal Porosity

    devacutsept31_zpsa0184b9d.jpg
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    LA looks gel will give me good hold without growth but it doesn't look nice and "soft" and touchable. Any gel that works works too well if you know what I mean.
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    My hair hates all silicones, even the water soluble ones.
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    Oh man now I'm learning about this humectant and glycerin thing and now I don't have a CLUE!

    Ok so I need just a good basic conditioner that is low in humectant and maybe just gel?

    The tesseme "moisture" has aloe and avocado so is that too much? What ingredients should I look for that will moisturize and then not cause the growth and frizz, AND not cause frizz? Aye caramba I am totally confused now.... and on top of that I have to worry about ph as well?

    so many ingredients to avoid, sulfate, silicones, protein, and now glycerine and humectant... what's left???
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    This topic has become way more involved than finding a leave in. I need a whole new slew of products that are CG friendly, silicone and sulfate free, low humectants, low protein, and the right pH, for coarse, thick, high density, highly porous hair with 3A to 3B curls. I live in a high dew point. It is in the 90s most days right now and rains daily.

    I need a cleansing conditioner, leave in conditoner, something with oils to seal all that in, and a decent gel to finish that won't leave my hair gross and sticky. My desire is soft bouncy defined, low frizz curls.
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Oh man now I'm learning about this humectant and glycerin thing and now I don't have a CLUE!

    Ok so I need just a good basic conditioner that is low in humectant and maybe just gel?

    The tesseme "moisture" has aloe and avocado so is that too much? What ingredients should I look for that will moisturize and then not cause the growth and frizz, AND not cause frizz? Aye caramba I am totally confused now.... and on top of that I have to worry about ph as well?

    so many ingredients to avoid, sulfate, silicones, protein, and now glycerine and humectant... what's left???

    You don't necessarily need to avoid or limit every ingredient with humectant properties, just the more potent ones like glycerin, propylene glycol, honey. Aloe might be fine in moderation because it is weaker.

    Do you need to moisturise (add or increase water)? With highly porous hair you may well need less moisture, but more elasticity and more conditioning. Lots of ingredients help hair hold the right amount of water (act as very weak humectants as well as their other roles) from panthenol to cationic surfactants to fatty alcohols and these are very common in conditioners.

    You could just use a leave in conditioner containing a little oil, or add a little oil to your gel (a la DIY Ecostyler custard) rather than try to use a separate sealer. Too much oil left in makes my hair greasy and/ or stringy long before it controls frizz properly, it works a lot better for me as a penetrating treatment or a minor ingredient in a leave in conditioner. It is fatty alcohols and lots of them with enough water that give me clumps but YMMV.

    For any triangle head consider a curly specialist haircut.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • AlessandrraaaaAlessandrraaaa Posts: 23Registered Users
    Ok I am going to give you the ultimate products to get healthy and beautiful curls and the best part is everything is all natural. As a shampoo/conditioner I recommend African black soap or terressentials mud hair wash they are both amazing, and when you use them you don't need a conditioner just one product!! As a leave in conditioner I like to use shea moisture Anti breakage masque. It is a mash but if you use just a TINY TINY bit is a great super moisturizing leave in. And as a gel I like to use aloe vera gel or flaxseed gel. this works wonders on my hair and leaves it so healthy it shines:)
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    I don't know whay YMMV is?

    I always thought my hair was dry becuase it feels dry but maybe its not? How do I tell if its dry or needs elasticity?


    EDIT... oh I also know what kind of cut to ask for to get my curls to lay right. But diffent cuts are needed for short and long hair and because I'm growing out I don't want too many layers right now to maintain. Trying to minimize breakage for maximum growth.
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,065Registered Users Curl Novice
    Oh man now I'm learning about this humectant and glycerin thing and now I don't have a CLUE!

    Ok so I need just a good basic conditioner that is low in humectant and maybe just gel?

    The tesseme "moisture" has aloe and avocado so is that too much? What ingredients should I look for that will moisturize and then not cause the growth and frizz, AND not cause frizz? Aye caramba I am totally confused now.... and on top of that I have to worry about ph as well?

    so many ingredients to avoid, sulfate, silicones, protein, and now glycerine and humectant... what's left???

    One thing at a time! Relax, we'll get there! :)

    Okay, the Alba B LI I mentioned earlier will work in high dews... I tried it as my only leave-in product in a tropical country with dews in the 80s (like FL in the summer) and no glycerin-induced frizz. My suspicion is that coconut oil (an anti-humectant) is found in greater concentration than the glycerin (a humectant) so it kind of cancels out the humectant-properties of the glycerin.

    So that will be "safe" to use Florida-wise.

    Okay, as far as gels, so you don't like the hard holds gels at all? I know LA Looks makes a bunch of different ones of differing "strenghts"... I'd still ask Chloe, she might be able to better point you in the right direction.

    What about homemade gels then, like FSG or okra? These will have a softer, much less producty feel and they're not humectants. Since your curl pattern is strong, you won't need a hard hold gel to hold your curl pattern in place so you might really benefit from FSG and okra gels.

    Don't worry too much about pH as you're just starting... most hair products will be in the "safe" pH zone even if higher than the skin/hair pH 4.5-5.5. I'd recommend against using something truly alkaline on your hair skin like baking soda, otherwise I think you're ok. Some "advanced curlies" actually alter the pH of their products so that they match the skin/hair pH, but I wouldn't worry about that now. If you're making your own FSG for instance, you can add citric acid to bring down the pH (you can test w/ litmus paper)... but it's not necessary. Just make a simple batch and see how your hair reacts and then you can start getting more "advanced" with future batches.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    Edit, never mind... I looked up flax seed gel, I'm def gonna try to make some!
  • anonymous_150263anonymous_150263 Posts: 773Registered Users
    Maybe I am trying too many humectants? This has really been helpful. I'm beginning to understand a few things. I skipped the shea moisture and just did conditioner and gel. Mixed the gel with a little castor oil. Not too bad?

    uploadfromtaptalk1375727423063.jpg


    I think the rest of my questions have been answered via other threads. Thanks so much for all the help!
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