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PT help

I did a gelatin treatment a few days ago and it really help my curls, but it lasted like 2 days and now my curls are going flat again. Is there a way to lock it in better or another treatment that lasts longer? I have high porosity hair and a lot of heat damage.

Comments

  • anonymous_133347anonymous_133347 Posts: 1,426Registered Users
    How long did you leave it in? And which recipe did you use? To maximize the benefit, you need to leave it in longer. Of course it's dependent on your properties (and weather) how much protein your hair can tolerate in the first place. . .
    3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

    CG since Nov. 2012

    Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
    Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
    Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
    Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

    * = HG

  • allie.clark.allie.clark. Posts: 36Registered Users
    I did the DIY one that's posted on here that yo make with vinegar and I left it on for over an hour. My hair loved it. The curls were much tighter and defined. The weather has had dew points in the 60's all week but today was in the 70's. Could that be why it went flatter?
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    First of all, you should determine your hair properties. Here's a link to help Curly Hair Basics | Live Curly Live Free This will help you with choosing ingredients/products. It will also help people give you advice.

    When the dewpoints are higher, hair likes more protein. Even those with protein sensitivity tolerate more of certain proteins. I do at least one PT a week and use a lot of products with protein, add protein spray or ingredients like Sea Kelp Biofermant. It really helps with volume and frizz. We've had dewpoints in the mid 70's the last 3 weeks and my hair hasn't been bad.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    I did a gelatin treatment a few days ago and it really help my curls, but it lasted like 2 days and now my curls are going flat again. Is there a way to lock it in better or another treatment that lasts longer? I have high porosity hair and a lot of heat damage.

    Have patience because hair is dead, it took a long time for it to get damaged and it will take time for it to improve.

    Just keep doing both protein and coconut oil treatments regularly, you will only get a certain amount of penetration and adherence each time. Then whenever you wash your hair some of the protein and fatty acids are removed, there is no way to make it stay in or on the hair permanently, that is why we are best not to limit damage, aiming to retain our natural fatty acids and proteins which are bonded to the hair.

    Heat and a longer timescale may help a little more penetrate but it will not help more adhere to the surface once all the damage is patched. You can also use a protein rich leave in conditioner, work with your hair properties when you select ingredients - make every product work for you.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • FloridaCurlyFloridaCurly Posts: 21Registered Users
    kathymack wrote: »
    First of all, you should determine your hair properties. Here's a link to help Curly Hair Basics | Live Curly Live Free This will help you with choosing ingredients/products. It will also help people give you advice.

    When the dewpoints are higher, hair likes more protein. Even those with protein sensitivity tolerate more of certain proteins. I do at least one PT a week and use a lot of products with protein, add protein spray or ingredients like Sea Kelp Biofermant. It really helps with volume and frizz. We've had dewpoints in the mid 70's the last 3 weeks and my hair hasn't been bad.

    Kathymack - I've seen other posts by you which mention the Sea Kelp and I'm pretty sure you buy it in bulk add it to products (maybe FSG?). Is that right? Do you know of any products that contain Sea Kelp that you would recommend?
    2C/Fine Texture/Normal Porosity/Normal Elasticity/Very Humid Climate
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    Not KathyMack but a couple of the Komaza Care products contain sea kelp bioferment, you can just use SKB straight up tho you don't have to be into DIY. Some claim it helps increase growth.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    kathymack wrote: »
    First of all, you should determine your hair properties. Here's a link to help Curly Hair Basics | Live Curly Live Free This will help you with choosing ingredients/products. It will also help people give you advice.

    When the dewpoints are higher, hair likes more protein. Even those with protein sensitivity tolerate more of certain proteins. I do at least one PT a week and use a lot of products with protein, add protein spray or ingredients like Sea Kelp Biofermant. It really helps with volume and frizz. We've had dewpoints in the mid 70's the last 3 weeks and my hair hasn't been bad.

    Kathymack - I've seen other posts by you which mention the Sea Kelp and I'm pretty sure you buy it in bulk add it to products (maybe FSG?). Is that right? Do you know of any products that contain Sea Kelp that you would recommend?

    I don't know of any products and nothing turns up when you do a google search (except the actual SKB.) Glad to hear that Komaza is including it. I just scanned the website and couldn't find any products that had SKB.

    I can add it to FSG or okra gel. This am, I actually used a tiny amount, straight, as my first layer and then added a leave in and jelly product. My hair came out well.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I think the Aquage line has it.
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • allie.clark.allie.clark. Posts: 36Registered Users
    Where can I purchase the SKB? I like the idea of adding it to my products because my hair is really picky and I have a lot of allergies. I have mixed hair texture. It's fine and medium. The fine hair actually curls great, the sections with more medium hair does not. I read the link you posted kathymack but it only talked about texture and never mentioned products. The page seems to stop abruptly. I'm going to be right by Sally's and wally world (walmart) in a little bit and wonder if there's anything I should pick up?
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    Where can I purchase the SKB? I like the idea of adding it to my products because my hair is really picky and I have a lot of allergies. I have mixed hair texture. It's fine and medium. The fine hair actually curls great, the sections with more medium hair does not. I read the link you posted kathymack but it only talked about texture and never mentioned products. The page seems to stop abruptly. I'm going to be right by Sally's and wally world (walmart) in a little bit and wonder if there's anything I should pick up?

    This place is reasonably priced and reliable: the store owner is a long haired wavy research scientist, I 'know' her from discussing on forums (but not IRL) and trust her opinion/ experience.
    Sea Kelp Ferment/ Bioferment/Extract -300 grams, 10.58 oz.


    KathyMack SKB is in the Komaza Care Stinky Stuff and I think one of their other scalp products but can't recall which. They use aloe vera more.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users Curl Neophyte


    KathyMack SKB is in the Komaza Care Stinky Stuff and I think one of their other scalp products but can't recall which. They use aloe vera more.

    Thanks. Stinky Stuff didn't come up when I went through products by "concern." I did see it when I went through product by product.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • allie.clark.allie.clark. Posts: 36Registered Users
    Turns out Giovanni smooth as silk cond that I use for my leave in has sea kelp in it. Plus lots of other proteins. Is it safe to use 1/2diluted ACV in the shower every other day? I wanted to try and see if it helps me. Btw what are typical signs that too much protein is being used?
    I've given up on trying to get curlier results and will just continue with weekly PT. It has definitely curled more than about a month ago when I started, so I hope it continues. If anything I guess when the damage has been cut out ill have a good idea of how my hair is.
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    Turns out Giovanni smooth as silk cond that I use for my leave in has sea kelp in it. Plus lots of other proteins. Is it safe to use 1/2diluted ACV in the shower every other day? I wanted to try and see if it helps me. Btw what are typical signs that too much protein is being used?
    I've given up on trying to get curlier results and will just continue with weekly PT. It has definitely curled more than about a month ago when I started, so I hope it continues. If anything I guess when the damage has been cut out ill have a good idea of how my hair is.

    Is it sea kelp or sea kelp bioferment? As I understand it they are not the same ingredient.

    You should not need to dilute vinegar by only 50%, that could be quite drying. If the pH of your products are in the right acidic range you should not get massive benefit from regular vinegar rinses - a small dilution will 'soften' the water, occasional treatments with more concentrated solution can help remove some hard water deposits, regular use is really for encouraging the cuticle to lay flat as hair dries which your products should be doing.
    The Scoop on Vinegar
    THE NATURAL HAVEN: Apple Cider Vinegar : Good or Not?
    ♡♡♡Structure of Hair Part 2 - pH Balance Basics - YouTube (one of a series)
    The Science of Black Hair on pH Problems & pH Balancing (Moisture Basics 3/4) - YouTube
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • allie.clark.allie.clark. Posts: 36Registered Users
    Ok, so regular ACV is a no go. I'm just getting frustrated and I want to give up. My hair was super curly (for me) after the protein treatment but its only ok athe day I wash. I cannot get 2nd day hair. Even if I pineapple, my curls are too loose and come out easy. Then I spray water and I've tried different products, to no avail. A tiny bit of coconut oil makes my hair feel greasy and weighs it down, i have shea moisture spray, and when I use that I do get some curl definition (not as good as day one) but it gets crunchy and a bit stringy but it wont scrunch out later. I'm not sure what else to try or if I'm just one of those people that can't do second day hair.
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I'm just one of those people that can't do second day hair.

    Don't worry....you're not alone!!!!! :sad7:
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • allie.clark.allie.clark. Posts: 36Registered Users
    chloe92us wrote: »
    I'm just one of those people that can't do second day hair.

    Don't worry....you're not alone!!!!! :sad7:

    Have you found anything that even remotely works for you? There are days I just don't have time to do everything to my hair. So I'm wondering what options I have on those days. I'm still hoping that more curls will get stronger and more defined with time, but I can't afford to keep buying new products lol! I've spent enough already. Some people mentioned aloe Vera gel. Problem is I think that's a humectant, right? I live in an area with dew points in the 70's often, so I'm not sure that will work for me.

    Firefox, to answer your question. No, the Giovanni sea kelp does not say bioferment but extract, but from what i have been reading it seems likely that it has still gone through the fermentation process when put in cosmetics, and hair care products. Some sites list them as interchangeable. I cannot say for certain unless I would actually call Giovanni. I would like to add that it is the deep moisture conditioner that contains it, no the regular.
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    Ok, so regular ACV is a no go. I'm just getting frustrated and I want to give up. My hair was super curly (for me) after the protein treatment but its only ok athe day I wash. I cannot get 2nd day hair. Even if I pineapple, my curls are too loose and come out easy. Then I spray water and I've tried different products, to no avail. A tiny bit of coconut oil makes my hair feel greasy and weighs it down, i have shea moisture spray, and when I use that I do get some curl definition (not as good as day one) but it gets crunchy and a bit stringy but it wont scrunch out later. I'm not sure what else to try or if I'm just one of those people that can't do second day hair.

    Aw don't give up look at the bigger picture, you gave commercial haircare products and techniques years of your life and $$$ from your wallet right? You also took months or years to get to this level of damage/ porosity right? You have difficult hair and high dews, that is a tough combination but you know more already than most people about haircare.

    You know hydrolysed protein has had a positive effect so stick with it, try longer or more frequent treatments or with heat, try a protein rich leave in conditioner. No 'repair' is permanent unfortunately, anything that penetrates diffuses in slowly and in small amounts so it is going to take perseverance and repetition. Also do coconut oil soaks on dry hair as a pre wash as in the published research, it's very difficult to use straight up as a leave in.

    You might not get decent second day hair whilst you still have a lot of porosity and damage, I certainly didn't. Maybe look on YouTube for ideas on wavy up dos or purchase the book 'Strictly Curls'. As your hair gets healthier and the old damage grows out and the porosity reduces your hair should become easier to manage.

    Firefox, to answer your question. No, the Giovanni sea kelp does not say bioferment but extract, but from what i have been reading it seems likely that it has still gone through the fermentation process when put in cosmetics, and hair care products. Some sites list them as interchangeable. I cannot say for certain unless I would actually call Giovanni. I would like to add that it is the deep moisture conditioner that contains it, no the regular.

    Extract may be the same thing yes.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • allie.clark.allie.clark. Posts: 36Registered Users
    Thanks for the encouragement Firefox. It's definitely true I shouldn't expect overnight or even results in a month or two. I am going to see about getting a sea kelp supplement since it has been shown to help hair grow faster. It's worth a shot. I am definitely glad hydrolyzed protein is cheap! Lol! I'll keep at it, but I am mad at myself for torturing my hair for so long. Had I known what I do now...in the meantime I'm going to take Dori's motto "just keep swimming" lol!
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Hi Allie- I've found that in order to get 2nd day hair, I have to have *perfect* first day hair.

    I spray it with a refresher spray before I go to bed to "reactivate" the gel from day 1, and put it in pigtails. The next morning, if it looks do-able, I smooth on a light hold gel (preferences for this are Uncle Funky's Curly Magic, Spiral Solutions Curl jelly, or CJ CIAB, sometimes Loreal Out of Bed). I smooth it over my canopy, then flip upside down and smooth over the bottom. I then take any recognizable clumps and smooth it down the clump to reform it a bit.

    However, this is rare. In general, I prefer to wear my hair curly and this only happens if I go through my whole routine. On day 2 my clumps have usually fallen apart and I have frizz. It tends to not even look wavy, which I would be happy with if there wasn't all the frizz.
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • Corrina777Corrina777 Posts: 3,193Registered Users
    I think a lot of whether or not someone can "do second day hair" is really about what they expect from their hair on that second day. I generally cleanse daily (partially due to not liking my second day hair, but mostly due to an intense workout schedule that leaves my scalp sweaty and gross). However, there are definitely day when I just don't have the time or energy to wash my hair. I've learned that, especially at my current length, I will never have second day hair that looks like my typical first day hair. But I've also learned that different isn't necessarily bad. Just yesterday I opted for second day hair (late night rehearsal) and I actually got a few compliments. Basically my only goal for second day hair is minimizing frizz and avoiding any bad tangles. To that end, I will end up with softer curls/waves on the second day. All of my second day hair issues were because I was trying to get the exact same curl and definition as I had the day before. I tried sprays and serums and mousse and gels, and all they did was gunk up my hair and leave me frustrated. Once I accepted the difference, my rare second day hair days have become much less painful. Now, all I do is apply a serum over the canopy to smooth frizz, raking or finger combing if needed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    3a/f/iii
    Modified CG since 11/5/11
    CLEANSE: CJ Daily Fix, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
    RO: SS Caitlin's Conditioner, CJ Beauticurls Strengthening
    LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
    STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier,Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
  • allie.clark.allie.clark. Posts: 36Registered Users
    Most of the problem I have had with second day hair when I haven't used much product is the fact that one side is curlier than the other. I definitely lose my curls overnight (although I am still noticing my curls getting stronger, yay!) on the side I sleep on. I so I have one side that looks pretty good, aside from a little frizz, but the others end up being more wave than curls. I haven't tried a lot of products, but have yet to find something that gets the curls going on the flatter side. I may have to try one of the products cloe mentioned. Does anyone have luck with using aloe Vera gel?
  • rainboerainboe Posts: 284Registered Users
    Most of the problem I have had with second day hair when I haven't used much product is the fact that one side is curlier than the other. I definitely lose my curls overnight (although I am still noticing my curls getting stronger, yay!) on the side I sleep on. I so I have one side that looks pretty good, aside from a little frizz, but the others end up being more wave than curls. I haven't tried a lot of products, but have yet to find something that gets the curls going on the flatter side. I may have to try one of the products cloe mentioned. Does anyone have luck with using aloe Vera gel?

    My hair hates aloe a lot, but a lot of people do really well with it. For me, the thing that helped me with second day hair at first was wetting my hair by scrunching in a bit of water (so it was damp). Then sometimes I would scrunch a bit of conditioner into the bottom and smoothing conditioner on the top to help with frizz. Using too many products on second day hair will usually actually just mess it up for me.

    There are ways to kind of hide problem areas too. If one of the sides of my hair is curly than the other, I'll sometimes move my part around. I'll move some of the hair from the curlier side over to the wavy side, so it's in a side part. It works for me, though sometimes I have to use a bit of water to set the hair over there. Wearing a head band or pulling your bangs back into a twist/braid/poof can also help disguise less than amazing second day hair. Pineappling can also help so you aren't sleeping on your hair, and it gives volume. Have you tried pineappling yet?

    I've worn my hair curly and avoided silicones/heat styling for about 4 years now. I get second day hair way more often then I did. I'm also less picky about it. Like, I'll tolerate looser curls or a bit of frizz on the second day. I get complements on days I dislike my hair, and I don't think a lot of people really notice when my hair's a bit messy.

    About your original question, I would say you should definitally make sure you're using products with protein in them. That way you're constantly building protein in your hair, instead of only really getting it when you do a treatment. I have a protein heavy conditioner that I rotate into my routine when my hair seems flat but I don't want to do a whole PT. Also, I've read that using heat (like a blow dryer) can help make protein treatments more potent.
    Fine Texture, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity. Dyed to brown a few months ago.
    Lowpoo: Trader Joe's TTT Shampoo
    Rinse Out:
    Yes to Carrots, AOHR, Aubrey Organics Rosemary Peppermint
    LI: Yes to Carrots
    Stylers: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, LA Looks Sports, Suave Professionals Captivating Curls Whipped Mousse

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