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What causes frizz when wet?

I'm high porosity, med/high density, medium width, 2C , and have noticed that I am getting frizz after I apply product (LA Looks) before I'm dry. I'm not SUPER frizzy once I'm dry, but more than when I started CG earlier this week. Our dew points have been in the low 60s lately..

Any advice?

Comments

  • SamanthascurlzSamanthascurlz Posts: 1,082Registered Users
    It could possibly be build-up. What shampoo and conditioner do you use? Do you touch your hair a lot during drying process?
    CG, High Porosity, Fine, Low Density, Medium Elasticity
    Suave, V05, GF Go clean gel, ACV rinses, CO, and Gelatine PT.
    [URL="[url=http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/members/samanthascurlz-albums-evolvement-my-hair.html]Curls[/url]"][/url]Curls
  • croftericacrofterica Posts: 64Registered Users
    I'm using Suave Tropical Coconut and Tresseme Naturals for my rinse out--I don't rinse it all the way...then scrunch out water, apply gel, and plop. Minimal touching :)
  • SamanthascurlzSamanthascurlz Posts: 1,082Registered Users
    crofterica wrote: »
    I'm using Suave Tropical Coconut and Tresseme Naturals for my rinse out--I don't rinse it all the way...then scrunch out water, apply gel, and plop. Minimal touching :)

    So do you co-wash with Suave or TN? I am just curious how you actually wash it. Also, I am high porosity, and I had a very similar problem with the frizz when wet. I stopped doing a RO because I realized I was adding too much moisture. I think, and this is not fully backed up with any scientific evidence, but the fact that high porosity easily takes in moisture, water, etc., that a rinse out isn't necessary. I think Co-washing, detangling, and rinsing out the conditioner (from detangling) is good enough for moisture. I am wondering if the Suave is the issue. The act of plopping, depending on the state of your hair (dry, soaking wet, etc.), could also be contributing to the frizz.
    Here is the Suave ingredients:

    Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Distearyldimonium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, Glycerin, 2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1,3-Diol, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Propylene Gylcol, Silk Amino Acids, Honey (Mel), Nettle (Urtica Dioica) Extract, Rosemary (rosemarinus Officinalis) Extract, Coconut (Cocoa Nucifera) Extract

    I also attached an article that some of the main ingredients in here are explained:
    THE NATURAL HAVEN: Does conditioner or oil really need to penetrate hair?

    Lastly, which LA looks do you use?
    CG, High Porosity, Fine, Low Density, Medium Elasticity
    Suave, V05, GF Go clean gel, ACV rinses, CO, and Gelatine PT.
    [URL="[url=http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/members/samanthascurlz-albums-evolvement-my-hair.html]Curls[/url]"][/url]Curls
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,061Registered Users
    Scan your products for polyquats. I've read several complaints of polyquats causing frizz-when-wet.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • SamanthascurlzSamanthascurlz Posts: 1,082Registered Users
    wavydaze wrote: »
    Scan your products for polyquats. I've read several complaints of polyquats causing frizz-when-wet.

    I am wondering if the LA looks might have a polyquat. +1
    CG, High Porosity, Fine, Low Density, Medium Elasticity
    Suave, V05, GF Go clean gel, ACV rinses, CO, and Gelatine PT.
    [URL="[url=http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/members/samanthascurlz-albums-evolvement-my-hair.html]Curls[/url]"][/url]Curls
  • CurlyInTheFogCurlyInTheFog Posts: 876Registered Users
    Dews getting to about 62 will kick up the frizz for me, but I can get frizz pretty easily anyway due to wind here. Two things help me: one, using a lot of gel and a hard hold one; two, pixiecurl diffusing. I use KCCC + BRHG and quite a bit of it--enough to get a lot of crunch by the time it dries. Once I SOTC, I've never had an issue with the curls being too stiff or unnatural looking. I actually get compliments when it's still crunchy, which I think is a little odd because IMO it looks like poop, but OK. I also pixiecurl at least until I've got a good cast on, so 50-75% dry. If I do these two things, I'm pretty much frizz-free on day one and can keep frizz to a minimum on day two.
    3a/b, F, normal porosity

    Suave conditioner, LAL gel
  • croftericacrofterica Posts: 64Registered Users
    I use Suave as the co-wash, lots of it and scrub my scalp like crazy with my fingertips, then wash the rest of my hair like I would with shampoo. Then I use the TN as a rinse out probably half of it upside down with cold water. I apply LAlooks Sport gel to dripping wet hair and immediately plop for 15 mins or so...
  • croftericacrofterica Posts: 64Registered Users
    wavydaze wrote: »
    Scan your products for polyquats. I've read several complaints of polyquats causing frizz-when-wet.

    I'm pretty new to this--what are poly quats?
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    Suave followed by Tresemme might not be rich enough for your high porosity hair, I am high porosity and need plenty of leave in conditioner, it could be more important than gel for frizz control and clumping.

    I never used to understand frizz when wet but occasionally I get it when I've used my protein rich/ oil free conditioner several washes in a row. I don't think the protein itself is the cause as such since it's giving me good hair much of the time, my hair seems to need a little oil in my routine.

    Another possibility is that fifteen minutes is too long a plop, porous hair can dry out fast especially if you are not using a rich leave in conditioner but only water based products. I'm having best results with flour sack towels, takes out less water so doesn't overdry the hair. I also lightly scrunch out water with the towel more often than I plop so I can hit the wetter areas and leave the ones that tend to frizz.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • CurlyInTheFogCurlyInTheFog Posts: 876Registered Users
    Suave followed by Tresemme might not be rich enough for your high porosity hair, I am high porosity and need plenty of leave in conditioner, it could be more important than gel for frizz control and clumping.

    I never used to understand frizz when wet but occasionally I get it when I've used my protein rich/ oil free conditioner several washes in a row. I don't think the protein itself is the cause as such since it's giving me good hair much of the time, my hair seems to need a little oil in my routine.

    Another possibility is that fifteen minutes is too long a plop, porous hair can dry out fast especially if you are not using a rich leave in conditioner but only water based products. I'm having best results with flour sack towels, takes out less water so doesn't overdry the hair. I also lightly scrunch out water with the towel more often than I plop so I can hit the wetter areas and leave the ones that tend to frizz.

    Ditto on the shorter plop and flour sack towels. I plop for ten minutes or less--just long enough to get dressed and clean up the bath area. I used to plop lfor 20-30 minutes, but got a lot more frizz. The flour sack towels are great. I've had greatly reduced frizz since I started using them.
    3a/b, F, normal porosity

    Suave conditioner, LAL gel
  • croftericacrofterica Posts: 64Registered Users
    Suave followed by Tresemme might not be rich enough for your high porosity hair, I am high porosity and need plenty of leave in conditioner, it could be more important than gel for frizz control and clumping.

    I never used to understand frizz when wet but occasionally I get it when I've used my protein rich/ oil free conditioner several washes in a row. I don't think the protein itself is the cause as such since it's giving me good hair much of the time, my hair seems to need a little oil in my routine.

    Another possibility is that fifteen minutes is too long a plop, porous hair can dry out fast especially if you are not using a rich leave in conditioner but only water based products. I'm having best results with flour sack towels, takes out less water so doesn't overdry the hair. I also lightly scrunch out water with the towel more often than I plop so I can hit the wetter areas and leave the ones that tend to frizz.

    Okay--I've also noticed my curls seem less curly all of a sudden. Do you think I'm leaving too much of the TN in my hair?
  • croftericacrofterica Posts: 64Registered Users
    Suave followed by Tresemme might not be rich enough for your high porosity hair, I am high porosity and need plenty of leave in conditioner, it could be more important than gel for frizz control and clumping.

    I never used to understand frizz when wet but occasionally I get it when I've used my protein rich/ oil free conditioner several washes in a row. I don't think the protein itself is the cause as such since it's giving me good hair much of the time, my hair seems to need a little oil in my routine.

    Another possibility is that fifteen minutes is too long a plop, porous hair can dry out fast especially if you are not using a rich leave in conditioner but only water based products. I'm having best results with flour sack towels, takes out less water so doesn't overdry the hair. I also lightly scrunch out water with the towel more often than I plop so I can hit the wetter areas and leave the ones that tend to frizz.

    Ditto on the shorter plop and flour sack towels. I plop for ten minutes or less--just long enough to get dressed and clean up the bath area. I used to plop lfor 20-30 minutes, but got a lot more frizz. The flour sack towels are great. I've had greatly reduced frizz since I started using them.

    Alright, I can definitely shorten the plop time. Do you use the flour sack towel to plop, or do you use it to scrunch out the water? Or both? :)
  • croftericacrofterica Posts: 64Registered Users
    Oh, and I'm washing everyday, so could that be too much? I've always washed everyday before CG, and prefer it. My hair is shorter, so not sure I can pineapple..
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    crofterica wrote: »
    Okay--I've also noticed my curls seem less curly all of a sudden. Do you think I'm leaving too much of the TN in my hair?

    Are you cleansing properly, so your hair is literally squeaky clean (it's a softer squeak than shampoo)? Could otherwise be protein-moisture balance, or not the right ingredients for your dew points/ humidity. Suave and Tresemme Naturals both contain humectants (eg. glycerin, propylene glycol, aloe vera, honey).

    Humectants can cause problems if overused and the effect tends to be more pronounced in those with higher porosity or at very high or very low dews. Porous hair often needs less moisture not more, but more elasticity, more penetrating oils to reduce porosity, maybe film formers to seal the cuticle.

    Tiffany from Live Curly Live Free says
    "In very low moisture areas, dry climates, or during the wintertime, humectants can actually dry the hair out further by absorbing water from the hair itself when there is no moisture in the surrounding atmosphere. Because the sole purpose of a humectant is to find and absorb moisture, it will find it and take it wherever it can get it--and that includes yanking out the moisture from inside your curly locks, leaving you with a dry, frizzy mess.

    In very high moisture areas, wet climates, or during the summertime, however, humectants will force overly porous hair to continuously “drink” water from the humid, moisture-laden atmosphere until the hair shaft is swollen, bloated and tangled. Products with heavy humectants are often the cause of the humidity-induced frizz common to many girls with curls in the hot, humid summertime.

    Both overly dry and overly swollen hair can become frizzy and/or lose their wave pattern due to improper use of humectants. Depending on your hair type---and, most especially if you are overly porous---humectants should not be used in very dry or very wet climates, or when dew points indicate there is too little or too much moisture in the atmosphere.
    "
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.curlynikki.com%2F2009%2F06%2Fcurl-whisperer-on-humectants-and.html" class="Popup
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • JessMessJessMess Posts: 151Registered Users
    I was using the TN as a leave-in initially and my hair didn't like it--I just suggested to someone else, too: try just skipping the leave-in for one wash and see what happens. I think for those of us with thick, coarse hair, a leave-in has the potential to just thicken it up and make it WILD. I'm doing better for now going right from rinse out to gel (no plopping).
    Jessica
    Type 2c: coarse, high-density, low porosity (so it would seem)
    Avoiding protein and glycerin; going for soft, non-crunchy, frizz-free waves
    CO & RO: Tresemme Naturals Moisture
    Sealer: Olive oil
    Leave-in/Styler: Kinky Curly Knot Today
    DT: olive oil and honey
  • croftericacrofterica Posts: 64Registered Users
    JessMess wrote: »
    I was using the TN as a leave-in initially and my hair didn't like it--I just suggested to someone else, too: try just skipping the leave-in for one wash and see what happens. I think for those of us with thick, coarse hair, a leave-in has the potential to just thicken it up and make it WILD. I'm doing better for now going right from rinse out to gel (no plopping).

    I'm starting to think it might be the TN---I think it's weighing my hair down. I really like the definition I've been getting, so I wonder if there's a lighter leave in?

    Can anyone recommend a good drugstore leave in that is lighter than TN??
  • NelekeNeleke Posts: 456Registered Users
    My hair is frizzy right after I come out of the shower.
    It wasn't frizzy at the beginning of CG.

    It isn't really frizzy anymore after putting in stylers and after plopping, so that's ok.

    It does get frizzy more quickly when dry than in the beginning.

    Would this be the same frizzyness as crofterica is talking about?
    2c: fine texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity, normal-high density
    CG since March 8th 2013
    Low Poo: Rainforest Radiance shampoo
    Conditioner: Yes to Cucumbers
    Styler: BRHG, Garnier Fructis Gel
    PT: Gliss Kur Repair & Volume

    iherb.com: get a 5$ discount on orders under 40$ or a 10$ discount on orders over 40$ when you order for your first order by using the following discount code: CFH441
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I've been battling explosive frizz when wet. It's almost like my hair is repelling itself - poor clumping and the ends of curls splay out. My hair was also very frizzy and hard/rough/dry feeling once it dried. Our dews have been around 70 for weeks.

    I did a few things - clarified with a sulfate shampoo, did a moisture/oil DT, did a couple of gelatin PTs, and put a small amount of coconut oil in and let it soak in overnight. It felt like I couldn't get it to hold moisture no matter how much I fed it, and it was acting very porous.

    My best luck was with the coconut oil overnight followed by the PT in the morning. My frizz is WAY down today. Well, I have normal "I got caught in the rain and humidity" frizz, but my hair is curling better and feels much better. My hair is almost too soft now (waves/curls still weak). I'm not sure what that's about, but my next attempt is to use a protein heavy conditioner on a regular basis and a moisture DT after another PT.
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    crofterica wrote: »
    I'm starting to think it might be the TN---I think it's weighing my hair down. I really like the definition I've been getting, so I wonder if there's a lighter leave in?

    Can anyone recommend a good drugstore leave in that is lighter than TN??

    Tresemme Naturals can cause problems for some people, but simply going lighter is not considering your hair properties, dew points nor addressing frizz. Just use your co-wash, see how that works out. Otherwise choose something rich with with protein, don't confuse rich with heavy they are not one and the same.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • croftericacrofterica Posts: 64Registered Users
    crofterica wrote: »
    I'm starting to think it might be the TN---I think it's weighing my hair down. I really like the definition I've been getting, so I wonder if there's a lighter leave in?

    Can anyone recommend a good drugstore leave in that is lighter than TN??

    Tresemme Naturals can cause problems for some people, but simply going lighter is not considering your hair properties, dew points nor addressing frizz. Just use your co-wash, see how that works out. Otherwise choose something rich with with protein, don't confuse rich with heavy they are not one and the same.

    Thanks! It's good to know :) You're very knowledgable, Firefox!
  • CurlyInTheFogCurlyInTheFog Posts: 876Registered Users
    crofterica wrote: »
    Suave followed by Tresemme might not be rich enough for your high porosity hair, I am high porosity and need plenty of leave in conditioner, it could be more important than gel for frizz control and clumping.

    I never used to understand frizz when wet but occasionally I get it when I've used my protein rich/ oil free conditioner several washes in a row. I don't think the protein itself is the cause as such since it's giving me good hair much of the time, my hair seems to need a little oil in my routine.

    Another possibility is that fifteen minutes is too long a plop, porous hair can dry out fast especially if you are not using a rich leave in conditioner but only water based products. I'm having best results with flour sack towels, takes out less water so doesn't overdry the hair. I also lightly scrunch out water with the towel more often than I plop so I can hit the wetter areas and leave the ones that tend to frizz.

    Ditto on the shorter plop and flour sack towels. I plop for ten minutes or less--just long enough to get dressed and clean up the bath area. I used to plop lfor 20-30 minutes, but got a lot more frizz. The flour sack towels are great. I've had greatly reduced frizz since I started using them.

    Alright, I can definitely shorten the plop time. Do you use the flour sack towel to plop, or do you use it to scrunch out the water? Or both? :)

    Both. Actually I use two towels. I use a light amount of leave in, scrunch with one towel, add my gel, scrunch again with the same towel, and then plop with a new towel. I do this because I use KCCC and if I don't scrunch out quite a bit of water it takes forever to dry. I scrunch carefully and only once per section (per scrunch session) so as not to mess up my curls. It works pretty well. I've been getting very nice curls lately. It sounds complicated, but it's really not. Takes just a few minutes, then I plop for 10, then diffuse for about 15 minutes. Beginning to end, maybe an hour including getting ready for shower, showering, dressing, styling.
    3a/b, F, normal porosity

    Suave conditioner, LAL gel
  • MissMcKennaMissMcKenna Posts: 29Registered Users
    I have a hair type similar to yours -- 2B, high porosity, medium texture, high density -- and I also started out CG with Suave Naturals Coconut and TRESseme Naturals and had the same results. It doesn't seem to be a good combination for me either, when I stopped using the TRESseme the frizz calmed down a lot more.
    2B, medium length, high porosity, high density, medium texture, low elasticity :)

    Currently using:
    Shea Moisture Shea Butter Shampoo (occasionally)
    V05 Strawberries n' Cream (co-wash)
    Shea Moisture Shea Butter Conditioner (rinse-out)
    Shea Moisture Coconut and Hibiscus Curl Enhancing Smoothie
    Herbal Essences Set Me Up Mousse
  • croftericacrofterica Posts: 64Registered Users
    crofterica wrote: »
    I'm starting to think it might be the TN---I think it's weighing my hair down. I really like the definition I've been getting, so I wonder if there's a lighter leave in?

    Can anyone recommend a good drugstore leave in that is lighter than TN??

    Tresemme Naturals can cause problems for some people, but simply going lighter is not considering your hair properties, dew points nor addressing frizz. Just use your co-wash, see how that works out. Otherwise choose something rich with with protein, don't confuse rich with heavy they are not one and the same.

    Okay--still battling this problem!! I used Suave as a leave in and it was really frizzy. Lately, I've just been rinsing all the conditioner (still TN) out and not doing a leave in. It is a little better that way.

    I've discovered I only get the crown frizz and wet frizz when I apply products soaking wet. If I scrunch out the water with a towel, then apply product, I don't get the crown, flyaway frizz. BUT, it looks stringy and I have no clumps.

    I like the way my hair looks when I apply product to soaking hair, so I want to make it work! I either need a different RO suggestion or I need a cream/pomade suggestion to calm the crown frizz after I SOTC. I bought JCNS, but it isn't doing anything for the crown/root frizz...

    Feeling :frustrated:
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I blot my hair after the shower to remove excess water, then, in order to get the clumps back, I use a slimy product to put the moisture BACK in (my products of choice for this step are okra or flax seed gel, uncle funkys curly magic or spiral solutions curl enhancing jelly).

    By saturating my hair with a product that clumps, my hair feels like its soaked again, but with product instead of water. The clumps reform. Then I top with a hard hold gel. If I don't use that crucial "middle" clumping product, I just don't get the same effect. It's kind of like the super soaker method, but soaking it with a film-forming product instead of water. Hope I explained that well enough.

    I've found that using a LI actually disrupts the effectiveness of my gels, so I've stopped using them for the most part.

    Instead, I'm back to doing DTS and using heavy conditioners as a RO (Darcy's pumpkin, CJ Curl Rehab, Curly Kinks Renew, etc). I do straight up coco oil overnite DTS at least once a week.

    I have porous, medium texture hair.
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!

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