CurlTalk

Canopy frizz

The top, outer layer of my hair is what tends to frizz. Do you think cutting shorter layers would help? My hair is a couple of inches below shoulder length with about the last 3 inches layered.

Thanks!

Sent from my SPH-D700 using CurlTalk App
Mostly 2A; Fine and wavy :batman:

Comments

  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    Some curlies finish their routine by using a hard-hold gel like BRHG only on the canopy, which helps w/ canopy frizz. Is your hair properly moisturized and proteined? My canopy frizz was drastically reduced when I started doing the CG method and started using DTs, PTs and leave-in conditioners.

    I don't think cutting shorter layers will help with canopy frizz, if anything it might make the canopy frizz a little more. What is your cut now?
  • liquefiedstarsliquefiedstars Posts: 16Registered Users
    BRHG?
    2C/3A
    Coarse/medium
    Low Porosity
    Trying Deva products.
  • yossarianyossarian Posts: 967Registered Users
    BRHG?

    BRHG = Biosilk Rock Hard Gelee

    Available at Target, Ulta etc.

    I just started using this and so far, so good. Much nicer scent than KCCC (Kinky Curly Curling Custard), good definition and minimal frizz. It's early yet, but it looks to be a HG in the offing.

    Sent from my SPH-D710 using CurlTalk App
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. - Jimi
    2c/3a, BSL, medium, low porosity
    Low-poo: Bobeam and CV poo bars; Acure Argan Oil & Stem Cell
    Conditioner: Acure Argan Oil & Stem Cell; Desert Essence Shea
    Stylers: Sweet Curls Elixir Curl Cream; SM CES
    PT: BASK Whiskey Soak
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    I have to add that doing a final rinse with cold water in the shower (you can do this upside down) and then adding your stylers to soaking wet hair helps a lot with canopy frizz. Scrunch out excess water gently with an old 100% cotton tshirt, plop if you'd like to set the curls. Afterward no touching while drying. This should help immensely.
  • WeathercurlWeathercurl Posts: 228Registered Users
    Aww, poor canopy frizz - i am probably its only defender. But I am OK w a little canopy frizz. I have always shed a ton of hair daily, and I have a ton of new hair growing in. I much prefer it to the alternative. I have alopecia areata, so I'm probably a little more forgiving. As my dermatologist says, I'm "in remission" for now, so no crop circles in my scalp at present (Yay!) I have episodes every few years so for me seeing the frizz is actually reassuring.

    Having said that, I second the BRHG or a similar hard hold gel. I scrunch it into soaking wet hair and it eliminates almost all frizz for me. And Pom-curl's method is also very helpful.
    2b/2c ( weather permitting - 3a), fine texture but lots of it, colored and highlights, BSL.
    Experimenting w CG since Oct 2012

    Current rotation:
    cowash= TN
    AG Gel Mousse, LA Gel,
    DT = Coconut oil (love)
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    Can you ladies share your BRHG application technique? I could use details. I'm having trouble with distribution because it's so thick and my hair is dense. Upside down or right side up? Smooth, rake, scrunch? I need help!
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    CurlyGrey3 wrote: »
    Can you ladies share your BRHG application technique? I could use details. I'm having trouble with distribution because it's so thick and my hair is dense. Upside down or right side up? Smooth, rake, scrunch? I need help!

    I haven't tried this myself but what I've been reading around the boards is that a little bit of BRHG is added to the canopy (I'm assuming smoothed) as a final step, over another "base" gel such as FSG, KCCC or whatever that was already scrunched in.

    If you scrunch it in the BRHG on top of the base gel as a final step, you'll get it everywhere and not just over the canopy and if you rake it you might disturb the curls that have already clumped and set with the base gel.
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    Over another gel? I guess the BRHG in that case it being used for frizz reduction on the top layer only?
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    CurlyGrey3 wrote: »
    Over another gel? I guess the BRHG in that case it being used for frizz reduction on the top layer only?

    Correct!

    Of course others use BRHG as their only gel... I assume scrunch it in but I'm not sure it's still on my wishlist! ;)
  • WeathercurlWeathercurl Posts: 228Registered Users
    If I use gel, I have to scrunch it in while my hair is soaking wet. I like the LA sports gel as well as BRHG. It seems to distribute a little better, but the BRHG gives excellent hold for 2 and 3 day hair. With the LA gel use maybe a quarter size puddle for each section of hair, and I do 4 sections. I scrunch that into soaking wet hair, then scrunch out excess water w a microfiber towel, then plop and diffuse. I use less of the BRHG than the LA gel. I have never smoothed gel over the canopy. I don't have good results with gel if use it on drier hair.
    2b/2c ( weather permitting - 3a), fine texture but lots of it, colored and highlights, BSL.
    Experimenting w CG since Oct 2012

    Current rotation:
    cowash= TN
    AG Gel Mousse, LA Gel,
    DT = Coconut oil (love)
  • JessiebananaJessiebanana Posts: 940Banned Users
    I don't find gel to be the answer for canopy frizz...sometimes I think gels can be drying and make it worse.

    I'm discovering my hair just really likes a nice jelly coat. It's why I'm using a detangler as my curl cream! It's brilliant!
    3C/Fine to Medium/Low Porosity/High Density

    :love5:MoistureMoistureMoisture:love5:

    Low Poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo
    RO/DC: DB Pumpkin Seed Curl Moisturizing Conditioner
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: Queen Helene Sculpturing Gel & Glaze

    No Salts, No Waxes, No Butters, No Heavy Oils
    No ACV, No Saponified Oils, Protein Sensitive
  • JulesonlineJulesonline Posts: 444Registered Users
    I don't find gel to be the answer for canopy frizz...sometimes I think gels can be drying and make it worse.

    I'm discovering my hair just really likes a nice jelly coat. It's why I'm using a detangler as my curl cream! It's brilliant!

    Interesting idea! How is the hold and how long is it lasting?
    JulesOnline
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    3A/B? A corkicelli mix of ringlets, spirals, helixes & s-shaped curls
    Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity


    Summer: pink; Winter: Blue; Year Round: green
    Lo-Poo:Giovanni SAS sulfate free poo, L'Oreal Evercream CC
    Co-wash: TNRV, VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea, TNNM
    RO/LI:
    YTC, Nexxus Hydra-light w/ CNPF GVPCB, Biolage CB, TNNM, Giovanni SAS
    Styler: KCCC FSG, BRHG, LALSG



  • JessiebananaJessiebanana Posts: 940Banned Users
    I don't find gel to be the answer for canopy frizz...sometimes I think gels can be drying and make it worse.

    I'm discovering my hair just really likes a nice jelly coat. It's why I'm using a detangler as my curl cream! It's brilliant!

    Interesting idea! How is the hold and how long is it lasting?

    It's keeping me frizz free all day. I can't speak of hold since my curls hold themselves, but everything dries nice and clumpy.
    3C/Fine to Medium/Low Porosity/High Density

    :love5:MoistureMoistureMoisture:love5:

    Low Poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo
    RO/DC: DB Pumpkin Seed Curl Moisturizing Conditioner
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: Queen Helene Sculpturing Gel & Glaze

    No Salts, No Waxes, No Butters, No Heavy Oils
    No ACV, No Saponified Oils, Protein Sensitive
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    Cut won't stop canopy frizz.

    I, too, only use "jelly" products. My definition--gelatinous consistency without the chemicals. I found that eliminating polyquats really helped with this. While I'm told that they don't build up, I had that spidery canopy frizz, even when wet. Cleansing conditioners with coco b and lowpoos with gentle surfactants didn't "remove" it. Finally used a shampoo with a stronger surfactant. Haven't really had issues since that time. Polyquats that are especially bad for me are 4, 7 and 10.

    Frizz free curly hair is an oxymoron. I think a minimal amount is always going to be there. You just want to do whatever you can do to keep it at a minimum.

    Here's an old post on frizz that you might find helpful http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/10134-masterpost-types-frizz.html I'd have to read through again to see if I agree with what it says--and I'm not going to do that.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • JessiebananaJessiebanana Posts: 940Banned Users
    kathymack wrote: »
    Frizz free curly hair is an oxymoron. I think a minimal amount is always going to be there. You just want to do whatever you can do to keep it at a minimum.

    This and you have to realistic for your curl type. Unless I want to turn my hair into a piece of armor I'm going to have more "frizz", as in unclumped strands, in my hair than someone with a looser pattern and lower density hair.
    Also, I think a little frizz is more attractive than that greasy or wet dog look, especially for wavy girls. The volume looks better.
    3C/Fine to Medium/Low Porosity/High Density

    :love5:MoistureMoistureMoisture:love5:

    Low Poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo
    RO/DC: DB Pumpkin Seed Curl Moisturizing Conditioner
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: Queen Helene Sculpturing Gel & Glaze

    No Salts, No Waxes, No Butters, No Heavy Oils
    No ACV, No Saponified Oils, Protein Sensitive
  • FuzzyMonsterFuzzyMonster Posts: 259Registered Users
    Thank you all so much for the great ideas! Glad to know more cutting is probably not the answer. :)

    I used to use BRHG, and I got tired of its heaviness. I guess you can't have your cake and at it too.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using CurlTalk App
    Mostly 2A; Fine and wavy :batman:
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,061Registered Users
    heavy as in it weighed down your hair or heavy as in too strong of hold?

    You can also try mixing BRHG with other gels or homemade FSG.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • FuzzyMonsterFuzzyMonster Posts: 259Registered Users
    Literally heavy, as in weighs too much.

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using CurlTalk App
    Mostly 2A; Fine and wavy :batman:
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,061Registered Users
    What are your hair properties and current routine?
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • FuzzyMonsterFuzzyMonster Posts: 259Registered Users
    My hair is fine, thin, and wavy. It's a few inches below shoulder length with the bottom couple of inches layered.

    I co-wash daily with Giovanni Tea Tree conditioner. I blot it upside down with a t-shirt, and then scrunch in Matrix gelee upside down, and air dry. I wash once a week with Jessicurl Gentle Lather shampoo.

    I few times a month, I rinse with a vinegar/water solution to clarify. I deep condition about once a month with mayonnaise.

    Once in a while, I straighten it with the straightening iron, but only if it's super-frizzy and I need to look especially nice, like for a work meeting. I only do that as a last resort and would really like to get away from it altogether.

    Thanks for asking!

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using CurlTalk App
    Mostly 2A; Fine and wavy :batman:
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    My hair is fine, thin, and wavy. It's a few inches below shoulder length with the bottom couple of inches layered.

    I co-wash daily with Giovanni Tea Tree conditioner. I blot it upside down with a t-shirt, and then scrunch in Matrix gelee upside down, and air dry. I wash once a week with Jessicurl Gentle Lather shampoo.

    I few times a month, I rinse with a vinegar/water solution to clarify. I deep condition about once a month with mayonnaise.

    Once in a while, I straighten it with the straightening iron, but only if it's super-frizzy and I need to look especially nice, like for a work meeting. I only do that as a last resort and would really like to get away from it altogether.

    Thanks for asking!

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using CurlTalk App

    What about porosity? You don't use a wash out or leave in conditioner? No protein treatments? What oil is in your mayonnaise and why have you chosen that?
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,061Registered Users
    Are you using the Matrix Biolage gellee?

    If so, these are the ingredients:

    Aqua/Water (Water), PVP/VA Copolymer, Propylene Glycol, Hydroxyethylcellulose, PEG 40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Polyquaternium 10, Diazolidinyl Urea, Polyquaternium 11, Methylparaben, Perfume (Fragrance), Polyquaternium 4, Polyquaternium 7, Propylparaben, Polysorbate 20, Cellulose, Limonene, Hexylcinnamal, Geraniol, Hibiscus Sabdariffa Flower Extract, Tetrasodium EDTA, Humulus Lupulus (Hops), Malva Sylvestris (Mallow) Flower Extract

    I notice it has 4 polyquats... numbers 10, 11, 4 and 7. Some curlies have trouble with polyquat buildup, which results in frizz. That may be especially relevant since you're co-washing in between low-poos. It might be worthwhile to clarify and then exchange the biolage gel for a polyquat-free one, and see if the situation improves.
    Unfortunately you may need something strong to clarify, even a sulfate shampoo. Kathymack had problems with polyquat buildup and I think she said she needed something really strong to get rid of it.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    wavydaze wrote: »
    Are you using the Matrix Biolage gellee?

    If so, these are the ingredients:

    Aqua/Water (Water), PVP/VA Copolymer, Propylene Glycol, Hydroxyethylcellulose, PEG 40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Polyquaternium 10, Diazolidinyl Urea, Polyquaternium 11, Methylparaben, Perfume (Fragrance), Polyquaternium 4, Polyquaternium 7, Propylparaben, Polysorbate 20, Cellulose, Limonene, Hexylcinnamal, Geraniol, Hibiscus Sabdariffa Flower Extract, Tetrasodium EDTA, Humulus Lupulus (Hops), Malva Sylvestris (Mallow) Flower Extract

    I notice it has 4 polyquats... numbers 10, 11, 4 and 7. Some curlies have trouble with polyquat buildup, which results in frizz. That may be especially relevant since you're co-washing in between low-poos. It might be worthwhile to clarify and then exchange the biolage gel for a polyquat-free one, and see if the situation improves.
    Unfortunately you may need something strong to clarify, even a sulfate shampoo. Kathymack had problems with polyquat buildup and I think she said she needed something really strong to get rid of it.

    For the OP. The three polyquats that gave me real issues are 4, 7 and 10. Don't know if they are the most common or not. The fact that this product has all three makes me believe that it could be the cause of your frizz issues. Do you have frizz when wet?? That's a sure sign of build up.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FuzzyMonsterFuzzyMonster Posts: 259Registered Users
    It's Matrix Super Defrizzer gel.

    I don't know about porosity. I don't understand it, and it confuses me.

    No, I don't have frizz when wet.

    I chose mayonnaise because I have a tight budget and can get little packets for free. I am open to trying something else if it's inexpensive.

    Thanks for helping me narrow down the cause of my issues!

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using CurlTalk App
    Mostly 2A; Fine and wavy :batman:
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,061Registered Users
    What are the ingredients of the gel you're using?

    If you want something cheap and since you have fine, thin hair, have you tried homemade FSG? Or okra? That seems to be popular nowadays.
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • wavydazewavydaze Posts: 2,061Registered Users
    Also what are the dews like where you are? NaturallyCurly's Frizz Forecast
    2bc/ f / ii. low porosity roots + normal-high porosity shaft where bleached. normal elasticity.

    Currently using:
    Poo: Earthbath Oatmeal & Aloe
    RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: UFD CM, CJ PP
    PT: CJ Repair Me

    :thumright: hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
    :angry8: guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
    Neutral on cones.

    iherb discount code: CFN646
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    It's Matrix Super Defrizzer gel.

    I don't know about porosity. I don't understand it, and it confuses me.

    No, I don't have frizz when wet.

    I chose mayonnaise because I have a tight budget and can get little packets for free. I am open to trying something else if it's inexpensive.

    Thanks for helping me narrow down the cause of my issues!

    Sent from my SPH-D700 using CurlTalk App

    Knowing your hair properties and dew points is critical, without that you are just randomly trying products instead of spending your money wisely and we are just going to make random suggestions that might well not be effective. There are some excellent articles on porosity here on NC by 'curl chemist' Tonya McKay and also on the Natural Haven blog. Otherwise perhaps ask for a Live Curly Live Free or Komaza Care hair analysis as a birthday gift.

    What oil is in the mayonnaise, is it a penetrating one? If you have porous hair use coconut, avocado, olive or sweet almond oil, all of which contain fatty acids that are capable of penetrating (lauric or oleic acids). A cheap deep treatment is a basic conditioner such as your co-wash one blended with a penetrating oil, honey and/ or aloe vera gel. Honey and AV are both humectants so might not suit all climates.

    Again are you not using any rinse out or leave in conditioner or protein treatments?
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • FuzzyMonsterFuzzyMonster Posts: 259Registered Users
    Yes, it would be nice to understand porosity. I've read those articles but I just don't get it. My hair dries quickly if I put no products in it, but if I put any kind of product in it, it takes all day to dry. What does that mean about porosity?

    The oil is soybean. No, no other treatments.

    Thanks!
    Sent from my SPH-D700 using CurlTalk App
    Mostly 2A; Fine and wavy :batman: