CurlTalk

New to CG, some questions

CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
Hi. I'm a mature wavy. My hair is very coarse & thick, salt & pepper, frizzy & dry, and I keep it below my shoulders. I tend to get big hair. It typically grows out rather than down. I used sulfates/cones forever, but I'm definitely a wash and wear girl and don't do any styling besides putting product in and letting it dry.

My goal is to get my hair healthier. With the long grey waves, I think I need to get the frizz under control. I got my first dry cut last Friday, and since then I've done one last sulfate shampoo followed by 1 deep conditioning, nothing, a co-wash, and a no poo wash on successive days. I attached two photos from yesterday. that's what my hair does with air drying - it's definitely curlier than before.

Why is my scalp so oily? It's not like I've gone so long without washing my hair - it's only been 4 days since my last sulfate shampoo and since yesterday I feel like my hairline is dripping with oil. Will this go away? I'm tried to really massage my scalp when I'm co-washing or using no poo to get it clean. Also, because my hair is so dense, I have trouble getting product to my scalp in the shower.

My stylist sold me very heavy products and I think that's fine for now with my hair type. Over time I'll move to lighter ones. Could this be causing the oil? I've always had a normal scalp and dry hair.

I like the curl in my hair, but right now it seems like my scalp and hair felt better when I was using the non-CG products. My scalp is oilier and my hair feels drier. Please tell me that this is normal and over time my hair will get better!

Thanks.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285

Comments

  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users
    Your hair is beautiful! The overly oily scalp is probably temporary. Some people when they first start the CG method experience this. Keep doing what you're doing for a good 30 days to give it a good shot! You'll see an improvement in the health of your hair in no time. If your scalp continues to overproduce oil, you could increase the low poo schedule to a few times a week to see if that helps.
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    Thanks! OK, I'll be patient. I'll give it a month and use the no poo when I need it.

    What's the difference between no poo and low poo anyway?
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users
    No poo has no lather and is basically a "cleansing conditioner". Low poos generally lather a little bit, but have no "harsh" surfactants like lauryl/laureth sulfates, but do have more cleansers than most conditioners.

    Both are perfectly acceptable if using the "Curly Girl" method.
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    Thanks. So another alternative would be for me to switch from no poo to low poo if this doesn't seem to be cleansing enough for me.

    I may do it once this bottle is done. It's hard for products to penetrate to my scalp (perhaps a sign of low porosity? it does take a while for my hair to get wet, but I always attributed that to bulk + frizz) so some lather might make it easier.
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It'll get better. OMG your hair is going to be SO awesome!!!!! It's already pretty. Just wait. You be over the moon!!!!
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    Thanks, chupie!
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users
    CurlyGrey3 wrote: »
    Thanks. So another alternative would be for me to switch from no poo to low poo if this doesn't seem to be cleansing enough for me.

    I may do it once this bottle is done. It's hard for products to penetrate to my scalp (perhaps a sign of low porosity? it does take a while for my hair to get wet, but I always attributed that to bulk + frizz) so some lather might make it easier.

    It does sound like you may be low porosity- difficult to wet, and takes a long time to dry.

    Yes, low poo is definitely an option if the no poo (or co-wash) thing isn't working for you.
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    Thanks!

    Yes, it takes forever for my hair to dry. I washed it at 8:30 this morning and 5.5 hours later it's still damp inside my densest section. The product makes it slower, of course.
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • rainboerainboe Posts: 284Registered Users
    I can't see you signature, but what products are you using?
    Fine Texture, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity. Dyed to brown a few months ago.
    Lowpoo: Trader Joe's TTT Shampoo
    Rinse Out:
    Yes to Carrots, AOHR, Aubrey Organics Rosemary Peppermint
    LI: Yes to Carrots
    Stylers: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, LA Looks Sports, Suave Professionals Captivating Curls Whipped Mousse
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    No sig yet. I told the stylist to just sell me some products she thought would work to get me started, figuring I would take some time to research what's best for me. She wanted to keep things simple for me since I'm style-impaired and was confused by the whole new process. (lol)

    Also, she suggested these knowing they're heavy (which my hair can take - I have the opposite problem) and that I would likely go lighter once my hair was healthier.

    So:
    Co-wash, conditioner, deep conditioner, leave-in: Matrix Total Results Deep Cream Mask
    Styling: Sojourn Texture Molding Paste
    No poo: Deva No-Poo

    The Total Results is heavy, but I think I like it for my hair. I'll likely buy a cheaper one for co-washing (the Suave Naturals looks good).

    The Sojourn is too pasty for me. It makes my hair look good, but I don't love the feel of it. I'll use it up, and then probably switch to a gel. I've always had the best luck with gels, although I don't know if no-cone gels have the same feel as cone-gels.

    I mentioned the No Poo. A Low Poo would probably be better for me.

    I'll use up what I have - it was way too much money to do anything else. I'll spend that time researching and figuring out what to try next.
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Do you plop? Might help curl and dry time.
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    I apply my product upside down, flip my hair over, and blot with a t shirt. I haven't tried plopping.
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users
    If you prefer a gel (I don't like those waxy pastes either), there are lots of them that are silicone free. You could pick up a cheapie at the drug store, or possibly something you already have is CG friendly!
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    Thanks ladies. You're all so helpful! :)
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • CaitieBCaitieB Posts: 9Registered Users
    As far as getting co wash or low poo to your scalp, have you tried washing upside down? I have thick hair, and I'll soak it in the shower, put conditioner on my finger tips, flip my head over while bending at the waist, and scrub my scalp. If I try to wash upright, I end up missing spots and wind up greasy.
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    Yeah, but I still find it hard with no lather.
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    Sulphates are known irritants, they thin the skin barrier and can cause it to pump out more oil to protect itself, this can subside immediately or can take some weeks. In the mean time you might choose gentle/ neutral products: no fragrances, irritant preservatives, not too many needless plant extracts.

    Damaged hair tends not to be low porosity, might just be that your hair is very thick/ dense that makes you think it is. Mine takes hours to dry with product on yet I know it is porous (colour treated, mechanically damaged, product vampire). Might be worth having a hair analysis from Komaza Care or Live Curly Live Free depending on budget and how much detail you want (Komaza is very detailed will recommend products which takes a lot of the effort out, LCLF is much cheaper but generic).

    Shampoo lather doesn't make a product cleanse, lather is there largely to make us think it is cleansing. I use a super cheap conditioner (Inecto coconut), piles of it, wash upside down, massage until I do actually build up a lather, rinse until my hair squeaks. I don't expect my cleansing product to condition, just not strip my damaged hair or irritate my scalp. I can get a heavy coconut oiling off with Inecto.

    Are you saying you are using the Matrix mask for co-washing? Looking at the ingredients it doesn't seem to contain much in the way of cationic surfactants which are the cleansing ingredients in a good co-wash product. Doesn't honestly look like a suitable co-wash for an oily scalp at all, would be better for dry hair and dry scalp. Not much in there to penetrate the hair as an intensive either, you might consider coconut oil and/ or hydrolysed protein treatments which are both beneficial for damaged hair.

    If you like the Matrix mask for your lengths, you might try a modified version of condition-wash-condition - wet your hair, coat the lengths in heavy conditioner and massage a little, then use a light/ cheap co-wash like Suave or Inecto at the scalp then rinse the whole lot out and condition again if you wish.

    You can also try cold scalp rinses before you wash to stimulate the sebaceous glands to dump their contents. Or making up a nozzle bottle of half co wash and half water and directing the product right at your scalp, or even roughly sectioning your hair to apply.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    My scalp isn't normally oily and my hair hasn't been damaged beyond using sulfate shampoos. I use no heat or chemicals. My hair is quite dry, though.

    More after I digest the rest of the information in your response...
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    OK, first of all thanks for the detailed reply, FF. I may try the hair analysis so I can figure out what's best for my hair. My husband will think I'm nuts.:)

    Thanks for looking up the ingredients. I should use my Deva No Poo as a wash, then, and keep with the Matrix as a conditioner until I finish it.

    Thanks for all the information. I guess I have more research to do.
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users
    CurlyGrey3 wrote: »
    OK, first of all thanks for the detailed reply, FF. I may try the hair analysis so I can figure out what's best for my hair. My husband will think I'm nuts.:)

    Thanks for looking up the ingredients. I should use my Deva No Poo as a wash, then, and keep with the Matrix as a conditioner until I finish it.

    Thanks for all the information. I guess I have more research to do.

    Yes, the deva no poo is essentially a cleansing conditioner, so use it how you would have used your shampoo previously. Then condition the middle to ends with the matrix. It's hard to switch from a lathering shampoo to a no poo, but it really does clean just as well. I find I use more of it to get the cleansing sensation, lol.
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    CurlyGrey3 wrote: »
    OK, first of all thanks for the detailed reply, FF. I may try the hair analysis so I can figure out what's best for my hair. My husband will think I'm nuts.:)

    Thanks for looking up the ingredients. I should use my Deva No Poo as a wash, then, and keep with the Matrix as a conditioner until I finish it.

    Thanks for all the information. I guess I have more research to do.

    You are welcome! The hair analysis is an investment if you are feeling overwhelmed or don't want to become a product junkie (some of us enjoy it, some cannot afford to). Maybe sell it to your husband by telling him that it will save loads of money in buying the wrong products? It's not as strange as it sounds, cosmetic science, trichology and formulation are legitimate scientific fields, the sales pitches and straplines are massively stretching the truth sometimes so it is useful to understand your hair and different ingredients.

    If you want to read any science yourself but in an easy read format, check out the articles here on NC by 'curl chemist' Tonya McKay and the Natural Haven blog.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    It makes perfect sense to me to get the info and then pick specific products rather than taking a broader approach. This is all more overwhelming than I thought it would be. :-)

    Does it make sense to wait a few weeks to get an analysis or are hair properties pretty stable? I understand that damage can change porosity, but I shouldn't be in that situation.

    Thanks again.
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    CurlyGrey3 wrote: »
    I have an engineer's mind (I'm a computer scientist) so it makes perfect sense to me to get the info and then pick specific products rather than taking a broader approach. This is all more overwhelming than I thought it would be. :-)

    Does it make sense to wait a few weeks to get an analysis or are hair properties pretty stable? I understand that damage can change porosity, but I shouldn't be in that situation.

    Thanks again.

    I have a biology/ healthcare background so my brain works in a similar way to yours! I would do the analysis sooner rather than later if it suits your finances, LCLF are taking a good few weeks, Komaza Care only take a limited number of new clients each month and they sell out FAST. Your basic properties won't really change, the condition and hydration of your hair can obviously improve.

    You will have some damage at least towards the ends of the hair, hair gets damaged by shampooing brushing or combing and hygral fatigue (water damage) if naturally porous, not just UV light chemical processing and high heats. But hopefully not any serious damage as you would presumably be aware of that!
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • CurlyGrey3CurlyGrey3 Posts: 508Registered Users
    Cool, thanks. I'm really interested to find out if there's a difference in properties between my grey and still pigmented hairs. I think the Komaza would be more likely to give me that level of detail. I've read that grey hair tends to be porous.

    My husband thought the hair analysis was a really cool idea.
    Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
    Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
    Current favorites:
    Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
    Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
    Style: FSG, BRHG
    Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

    iHerb discount code: PNQ285