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A thread for low porosity, coarse curlies.

MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
So its warm now. Just as I had my routine down, my hair is letting me down again. So: for those with hair like mine, what are you doing in this weather? I live in Wisconsin, and I feel I need to start all over. What shampoo, conditioner, gels, sealers, etc do you use? And, if anyone shampoos daily like me, I would REALLY appreciated hearing what products you are using. TIA!
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Comments

  • misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
    Hi Myrna,

    Being low porosity AND coarse seems to be very uncommon here. I think that's why a lot of things that work for other curlies haven't worked so well for me. Since I've been learning more about hair "science" and have been paying attention to ingredients I've noticed that I have an extreme protein sensitivity and can't use many of the products others can.

    But I had the best hair day of my life yesterday and the first really good hair day since trying CG. I should also note I'm not strictly CG and still poo sometimes. This is what I did yesterday:

    -Co washed with Suave Sun Ripened Strawberry (which has EDTA for chelating, glycerin as a moisturizing humectant, and no protein or protein analogues)
    -Conditioned and detangled with Suave Sun Ripened Strawberry then rinsed it out
    -Squeezed the excess water out of my hair
    -Sealed with apricot oil and then applied Botticelli Botanicals Foolproof "Mudd" (okra gel) before stepping out of the shower.
    -Blotted out the excess moisture with my microfiber towel.
    -Let air dry for a little while, then got annoyed with my wet hair and diffused. That's it!

    Being a previous mousse user I feel a little wrong applying product on really wet hair then blotting (like I'm taking out the product I just applied) but it worked wonderfully!I Also, I've found I have to seal all the time. If I don't, my hair looks like crap. No matter what the dewpoint (so far). Yesterday was the first time I used the okra gel and I think this was the main difference in results for me. I've never had such definition and such little frizz with any mousse or gel. I'm not sure yet if it's going to over-protein my hair if I use it regularly but I'm hoping sealing before using it will help to prevent that.

    Hope to see some other coarse and low porosity curlies chime in. And good luck, Myrna! The dewpoints are climbing here too so I'm hoping my routine sticks during the summer. Fingers crossed!
    CG since 3/1/13
    3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
    Very high density, waist length

    Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
    RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
    Sealer: apricot oil
    Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
    Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

    Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Sheesh, I have to go real easy on the glycerin, a nd I dont think I can use oils at all, because they would just make my hair oily. I use a heavier conditioner in the winter (GVP), but now, I am using a lighter one. Experimenting with different ones, including Tresemme, Yes to Tomatoes, Yes to Cucumbers, and 2 suaves.
  • misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
    So, I'm thinking you aren't able to use glycerin since you aren't sealing? I also like Suave Clarifying Conditioner which has no glycerin or protein. It feels lighter to me and has less slip than TN.

    I understand being afraid of oil. I was positive that it would make my hair greasy too but I tried it and it didn't. I don't put it anywhere near my scalp and I literally only smooth a few drops down my strands to seal moisture in/out. It felt strange putting it in my wet hair at first but I don't notice it at all when dry.

    Good luck with your experiments!
    CG since 3/1/13
    3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
    Very high density, waist length

    Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
    RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
    Sealer: apricot oil
    Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
    Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

    Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    I have very thick low porosity hair. This winter I started using the Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus shampoo, moisture milk and curl enhancing smoothie. I had the best winter ever. Typically my hair gets much straighter and more flyaway in winter but I had much smoother curls and I was very happy.

    I usually have to use lighter products in the summer because the more moisturizing products make my hair flat on top in the summer. I had high hopes for the Shea Moisture products and was hoping I could continue with them in the summer. No such luck! It is extremely humid where I live and as soon as the weather warmed up it took my hair forever and a day to dry with the Shea Moisture.

    So, I tried the Yes to Carrots Shampoo, conditioner, leave in and frizz serum. They were OK but I wasn't 100% happy with the leave in and serum. My curls weren't as smooth as they were in the winter. I tried the Kinky Curly products but didn't like them at all. The Knot Today had very disappointing slip. My hair looked great but that made it take way to long to detangle and the Curling Custard made it stick together like I put glue in it. I have also had the same stick together like glue but looking great problem with Giovanni Direct Leave In. I have decide it is the Aloe Vera in those products. Anyone else experience this?

    So, I have settled on Yes To Carrots Shampoo and Conditioner as rinse out. Then I use a bit more of the regular carrot conditioner as a leave in. The I use the Shea Moisture Smoothie. It all seems to give me the right balance of enough moisture to give me smooth curls without weighing my hair down flat.

    I am still trying to figure out how specific ingredients effect my hair, The only thing I can for sure pinpoint is the Aloe Vera making my hair stick together like it has glue in it. I don't notice any problems with protein and some of my favorite products back even way before I was curly girl had lots of protein. I have wondered about glycerin. Some of the products I like the most seem to have it but I see so many that have issues with it I have wondered if I would be better without.

    For me it is a fine line between getting smooth curls, giving my curls some umph which they often need, making sure I don't have so much moisture it takes forever to dry and making sure I don't weigh down my already very thick hair with products and make it flat.
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    P.S. I only use about a pea size amount of shampoo when I wash. I only use it at my roots and on my scalp. I put on a ton of rinse out conditioner and let it sit while I do everything else in the shower. Then, I had my biggest break through this winter when I realized I have much better luck applying the leave in and smoothie in the shower right before I get out when my hair is still wet. Because drying time is such an issue for me I try to squeeze out as much water as possible or else it never drys. Then I also have to be very light with the products. I divide my hair into about 5-7 sections, 3 in the back and 1 or 2 on the sides. Then I add about a pea sized amount of smoothie and leave in to each section.

    I never thought applying products in the shower would make such a huge difference. I also used to comb my hair with a wide tooth comb up side down out of the shower and then again right side up to get a straight part. That was adding to some of my flatness on top. I have lately quit combing it right side up and only use my hand to get it doing what I want so it doesn't look crazy. That has also really helped with it not getting flat on top.
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Hello, PG, you sound like my hair twin!

    I used the SM products (shampoo) in the winter and did well, and now I am having issues same as yours. I do not use a leave in. on occasion, I use a dab of what I use in the shower.

    Up until about 2 weeks ago, I was applying aloe vera gel in the shower, and it did great for me. Then it got warmer, and more humid, and I figured the AVG was too much moisture, causing frizz. It is my understanding that glycerin pulls moisture out of the air, so for gals with higher porosity, that is a good thing, but for us - Frizz, I know, its in just about everything. I try to find it low on the list.

    But I share your frustration. Just this morning I posted I am tempted to try KCCC because it works well for so many; after reading your post, I guess I wont throw away my money. I have NOT applied products in the shower other than the AVG; CK is not cheap. But, I may have to try that. I am also a millimeter away from buying some dern flax seeds and making my own gel - all the commercial stuff has either glycerin, protein, or hydrogenated castor oil. I cannot and wont do oil, it will sit on my hair and they I will have greasy as well as frizzy hair. I shampoo daily, and so far, recently, have had the best luck with the Yes to Cucumbers. Sometimes I use the Yes to Tomatoes conditioner. Keep me posted as to what is working for your or not working please.
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    PS I HATED the Giovanni leave in, but have since abandoned any addition leave in product. on the other hand, I LOVE the smooth as silk. I could not use your stylers, I dont think I would have hardly any curl formation, and no hold. I also hated Ecostyler.
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Myrna- I hope this doesn't come off as combative- I genuinely don't mean for it to. But after reading your posts, it seems like a lot of products aren't working for you. And although you sound like you try a lot of products, it doesn't sound like you're open to trying different techniques, which plays an even bigger role in how your hair looks. For example, you say you wash your hair every day. This may be drying regardless of no sulphates, or whatever. Maybe experiment with washing every other day, and just wetting and restyling between. You also say you can't use oils to seal, but have you tried any of the light ones? As far as frizz, it's usually us porous curlies who experience glycerin induced frizz, so it may be something else that is causing yours (dryness, technique, etc). Before you ditch another product and write it off, maybe try experimenting with technique and application. I want you to feel great about your hair!
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Hi, Chloe, I am not easily offended. So, your comments are appreciated, whether I take your suggestions or not.

    Washing daily is non negotiable. It just is not. My hair is not dry, or at least I dont think it is, but I see my stylist tomorrow, and I will ask her what she thinks, and what will work in this weather. I had my routine down for the cooler weather but this is wisconsin, and if you dont like the weather, wait a few minutes...so that is part of the issue, the changeability of it all.

    It is not just the frizz that concerns me, I can live with that, its sort of the all over look. I like volume! and try to get it, and also have good curl formation.

    What you say about glycerin may be so. It may be that I need to avoid proteins.

    Another issue I have that probably a lot of younger curlies dont have, is that color my roots. When I first have this done, my hair tends to look great. As the hair grows, and the roots grow in silver, it is more difficult for me to get lift at the top.

    Its complicate. Thank you for your comments.
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Hi Myrna- I color my grays too, so I do get that. One thing I can tell you is this; since I have eliminated glycerin for the summer, my color seems to last longer! I have read that glycerin pulls color out of hair, and didn't pay much attention to it until I noticed it as a side effect of not using glycerin anymore....

    I also just wanted to say something about you not using leave-ins anymore- from my understanding with low porosity hair, your rinse out is not really ever absorbed, so moisture that stays ON the hair for longer, is more important. (Per KathyMack)
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    Chloe:

    My roots get colored every three weeks and at that point I have about a half inch of silver, it grows fast, esp in the summer. So I dont worry about the color being pulled out of my hair, it is what it is. Only the roots are done.

    I eliminated most of the leave in because I felt it was just more to interact with the humidity... I see you use GVP sculpting gel, how do you like it?
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Myrna wrote: »
    I eliminated most of the leave in because I felt it was just more to interact with the humidity... I see you use GVP sculpting gel, how do you like it?

    In my opinion, a leave-in is very important, and even more so for low porosity hair. IT will act as your sealer, more than anything else.

    I'm just curious, why is washing every day not negotiable for you? Do you have an oily scalp?
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    Myrna, I think our hair sounds similar also. My biggest hair challenges are drying time and not being flat on top. Since my hair is so thick it's own weight can make it flat, heavy or wrong products make it flat. I feel like I will forever struggle with drying time. Not combing it upright has really helped with the flatness problem. The better job I do of drying the top even if it's just with a towel the less flat it gets. I always end up having to play with it a lot while it's wet to keep plumping it. That can be a pain when you have other things to do!

    My amount of curl really varies depending on weather and styling technique. It is what it is and I don't worry about that to much. I do have one side that is straighter and if it gets to straight it falls in my eyes. But, that is the only area where I really worry about amount of curl. And, when it comes to frizz I don't feel like it's a major problem though some techniques and products do lead to a smoother look which I like better. My hair always looks better and smoother by the end of the day which I have read is common for low porosity hair.

    Interesting comments about the leave in. I never really used one until recently. And, I do notice that when I use it my hair looks better. But I have to be careful because getting to heavy with it leads to super long drying time. Like I said I just use the Yes To Carrots rinse out right now as leave in and just a pea size amount on 5-7 sections. I could probably get away with using more of all my products but I'm scared to go over board because I can't stand the feel of having too much on my hair.

    I used to think I had to wash everyday. My hair is crazy looking without and I admit a huge part of wanting to do it is a mental thing. I tried not washing everyday and it lead to flatness on top which is one of my big issues. So, now I have gotten to where I wash every day with just a pea size amount of shampoo just on top at the roots. I think it gives me a little umph up there. It also addresses my mental need to feel like I have washed my hair. I have noticed a big difference in how smooth my hair is now that I don't shampoo it all over. Is this something you could try? Only shampooing the top? Using less shampoo?

    About the Kinky Curly products. Since you are interested in them I will tell you more about my experience with them. After all I read I thought they were going to be the end all be all. They made my hair look really good. But, it was just way to tangled after the shower for my liking. I have super thick hair and don't have time to comb through it when it's tangled in the morning. There are plenty of products that allow me to get a comb right through with no problem so I don't plan to settle for less than that. As I said, the Custard made my hair stick together like glue was in it. It wasn't sticky feeling to the touch. It didn't make me feel like I needed to wash my hands after I touched my hair. I can't stand that feeling! But, I must admit, I like to be able to comb my hair if I feel the need and I can't stand if I can't pull my fingers through my hair without them getting hung up in knots and tangles and stickiness. With the custard combing my hair just didn't work. It was stuck together.

    Myrna for your volume do you ever try a diffuser? I have mixed results with one. I think it makes my hair frizzier and crazier looking. More out of control. But, it definitely adds volume. I have to be careful. If I diffuse too long it can get really out of control and big. I mostly just diffuse when it's really cold and I can't stand to go outside with wet hair. Have you tried the Smoothie? You said you didn't think you could use it right? I think it provides a lot of curl but not really hold. Maybe you could use it to get the curl you want and something else to provide you with the hold you need.
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • _HappilyNatural_HappilyNatural Posts: 18Registered Users
    Can someone define what the definition of what this is actually?
  • misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
    chloe92us wrote: »
    Hi Myrna- I color my grays too, so I do get that. One thing I can tell you is this; since I have eliminated glycerin for the summer, my color seems to last longer! I have read that glycerin pulls color out of hair, and didn't pay much attention to it until I noticed it as a side effect of not using glycerin anymore....

    I also just wanted to say something about you not using leave-ins anymore- from my understanding with low porosity hair, your rinse out is not really ever absorbed, so moisture that stays ON the hair for longer, is more important. (Per KathyMack)

    Really interesting connection about glycerin pulling color from hair! I didn't know that. I occasionally use conditioner with glycerin and noticed my hair has been looking a bit lighter - which was kind of a wanted effect! But very good to know for when I don't want that!

    I'm also learning about some of the things you said about leave-ins. I didn't realize (or remember) that rinse outs aren't ever absorbed in lo po hair. I haven't been able to find a leave-in that doesn't have protein, protein analogues or strengtheners though. Which was part of the reason why I sometimes use a conditioner with glycerin and/or propylene glycol (for moisture) and then seal it in. So, I guess I am accidentally doing the right thing! I'm just hoping as the dewpoints climb here I'll still be okay using a glycerin condish on occasion as long as I seal.

    Thanks for your post, things are clicking into place.
    CG since 3/1/13
    3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
    Very high density, waist length

    Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
    RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
    Sealer: apricot oil
    Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
    Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

    Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
  • misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
    Can someone define what the definition of what this is actually?

    Happily,

    Here are some links to help you figure out your hair's properties:

    Curly Hair Tips, Styles & Products - NaturallyCurly

    Live Curly Live Free - Curly Hair Basics

    Good luck!
    CG since 3/1/13
    3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
    Very high density, waist length

    Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
    RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
    Sealer: apricot oil
    Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
    Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

    Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    PG, I dont diffuse at all. I used to. If I have to get out of the house fast, I guess I would, partially diffuse; but, I use the CHS roller jaw clips which are super, and help with volume on the top (I highly recommend you try them) and let my hair air dry.

    The shampoos I use are the SM line, and the Yes to Cucumbers. As far as I know, they are very gentle. Yes, I could try using less but as far as I know my hair is not dry, except occasionally, like everyone, I get some small spots of dry ends, which my stylist clipped today. Generally, I think my hair is in very good condition.

    Chloe, I dont like the idea of wetting hair and re-applying product. Sorry, that does not work for me psychologically. Call me quirky, but I need to shampoo my hair. Daily.
  • misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
    pianogirl wrote: »
    Myrna, I think our hair sounds similar also. My biggest hair challenges are drying time and not being flat on top. Since my hair is so thick it's own weight can make it flat, heavy or wrong products make it flat. I feel like I will forever struggle with drying time. Not combing it upright has really helped with the flatness problem. The better job I do of drying the top even if it's just with a towel the less flat it gets. I always end up having to play with it a lot while it's wet to keep plumping it. That can be a pain when you have other things to do!

    My amount of curl really varies depending on weather and styling technique. It is what it is and I don't worry about that to much. I do have one side that is straighter and if it gets to straight it falls in my eyes. But, that is the only area where I really worry about amount of curl. And, when it comes to frizz I don't feel like it's a major problem though some techniques and products do lead to a smoother look which I like better. My hair always looks better and smoother by the end of the day which I have read is common for low porosity hair.

    Interesting comments about the leave in. I never really used one until recently. And, I do notice that when I use it my hair looks better. But I have to be careful because getting to heavy with it leads to super long drying time. Like I said I just use the Yes To Carrots rinse out right now as leave in and just a pea size amount on 5-7 sections. I could probably get away with using more of all my products but I'm scared to go over board because I can't stand the feel of having too much on my hair.

    I used to think I had to wash everyday. My hair is crazy looking without and I admit a huge part of wanting to do it is a mental thing. I tried not washing everyday and it lead to flatness on top which is one of my big issues. So, now I have gotten to where I wash every day with just a pea size amount of shampoo just on top at the roots. I think it gives me a little umph up there. It also addresses my mental need to feel like I have washed my hair. I have noticed a big difference in how smooth my hair is now that I don't shampoo it all over. Is this something you could try? Only shampooing the top? Using less shampoo?

    About the Kinky Curly products. Since you are interested in them I will tell you more about my experience with them. After all I read I thought they were going to be the end all be all. They made my hair look really good. But, it was just way to tangled after the shower for my liking. I have super thick hair and don't have time to comb through it when it's tangled in the morning. There are plenty of products that allow me to get a comb right through with no problem so I don't plan to settle for less than that. As I said, the Custard made my hair stick together like glue was in it. It wasn't sticky feeling to the touch. It didn't make me feel like I needed to wash my hands after I touched my hair. I can't stand that feeling! But, I must admit, I like to be able to comb my hair if I feel the need and I can't stand if I can't pull my fingers through my hair without them getting hung up in knots and tangles and stickiness. With the custard combing my hair just didn't work. It was stuck together.

    Myrna for your volume do you ever try a diffuser? I have mixed results with one. I think it makes my hair frizzier and crazier looking. More out of control. But, it definitely adds volume. I have to be careful. If I diffuse too long it can get really out of control and big. I mostly just diffuse when it's really cold and I can't stand to go outside with wet hair. Have you tried the Smoothie? You said you didn't think you could use it right? I think it provides a lot of curl but not really hold. Maybe you could use it to get the curl you want and something else to provide you with the hold you need.

    Pianogirl - I have very thick hair too that takes forever to dry. Literally days, if I leave it. I get so annoyed with how long it can take and often end up just throwing it in a braid for convenience. How are you getting pea sized amounts spread around?? That is something I struggle with. I have to use SO MUCH just to get product all throughout my hair.

    I couldn’t use the SM products. Too much protein, protein analogues, and strengtheners in them for me. I also hated KCCC and KCKT. I got that straw-like tangled feeling. I just posted about it in another thread:
    I couldn't use KCCC either. It could've been the aloe. I was initially thinking it might've been because of the horsetail, chamomile, nettle and/or marshmallow. I also didn't like KCKT which also has some of those ingredients. My thinking was they're all plants and plants have protein (although I'm still a bit confused on what size can penetrate the shaft). They were also listed high up in the ingredient list. Whichever ingredient it was it was acting as a protein/strengthener in my hair too!

    Personally I'm also avoiding panthenol (which is in the Kiss My Face gel) since I understand it to be a strengthener which acts like protein for those of us who are really sensitive.

    Like you, I squeeze out as much water as I can but I’ve found if I don’t go heavy on my styling products I don’t get good definition or hold. And I can't diffuse without getting frizz. I found applying my products in the shower and blotting makes a big difference too! Did I say that already? Lol. I still have a hard time with it mentally (it feels wasteful) but it's working so I know product is staying in my hair and I'm not using any more than if I put it in after.

    Would love to see a pic of your hair. I have to upload a recent one. Unlike you (and most other curlies here), I hate root definition. Because my hair is already so BIG (lol) I actually comb my hair as flat as I can on top and slick it back in a pony to dry. For shame! Lol. And I STILL get volume! Have you heard of or tried clipping for root volume?

    I am a little curious about the Yes to Cucs and Yes to Tomatoes... but I tried the Yes to Baby Carrots and had a protein reaction so I’m scared. I hate being so super protein sensitive, which it doesn’t sound like you are. Lucky!

    Myrna - you said you are thinking of making flaxseed gel. Have you read the okra thread? Apparently, okra gel is much easier to make and has better hold, which I know is something I also need as a coarse curly.
    CG since 3/1/13
    3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
    Very high density, waist length

    Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
    RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
    Sealer: apricot oil
    Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
    Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

    Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    I am able to distribute the pea size amounts by dividing in sections and for shampoo I only do the top. I think I could probably use more product and have better looking hair but I'm afraid to get to heavy. I hate the feeling.

    As far as volume on top I think I am just so used to seeing myself with big hair that flat hair doesn't look "right". I have heard of clipping but don't totally understand how to do it and achieve the best results so I haven't tried it. I need to take the time to watch some videos.

    I am on the way to bed and on my phone but will try to find some pics on the computer tomorrow. My hair varies so wildly in curl quality and overall look. On a good day I think I have awesome hair. But my bad days are BAD.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using CurlTalk App
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    PG, if you go to the curlyhairsolutions site, there is a short video about the roller jaw clips, and that should help. They are really very easy to use once you get the hang of it.
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    Myrna, I watched the video on clipping. I haven't showered yet today. (No work! Yay!!) But, anxious to try it when I do. I have some clips that are similar that I hope will work. I don't totally get exactly where to position them but I think I kind of have a good idea of what to do. It looks easy enough. We will see. I have always thought this would work well for me. I have been known to use a head band while my hair dries to gets some left in the front. My hair is pretty "moldable". It will hold well if I get it to dry in the position I like. I have one side that is always in my eyes and bugs me. I often clip that small piece back with a bobby pin and after a while I can take the bobby pin out and it will stay.
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    PG, you are probably not old enough to remember roller setting of hair, but there was a standard pattern for use of rollers to set one's hair - that is how I place the clips. 3 down each side; a row straight back and down the back of my head; and a row of 2 clips or 3 on the back sides of my head. I do not clip all my hair up; just my head. You just kind of grab some hair in the clips. I love the CHS clips, they are very gentle. This morning I diffused my hair a bit before using them, as I am trying to keep my hair more wet to apply products. I dont know if Jonathan places the clips like I do, but it works for me. My stylist thinks they are great.
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    I do remember roller setting! Mostly because my mom and my grandma did it but seems like when it was time for a family picture I got my turn with the rollers too! I tried the clips today. I only had about 6 of them and didn't even leave them in very long because we were getting ready to go out for dinner. But, I really like the way my hair has turned out so far. It is still not all the way dry yet. If it still looks good when it is all the way dry I will have my husband take a picture. I am going to try to add some older pictures of my hair in a post below.
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    OK, I hope these photos work. They are a little bit older. I will try to get my husband to take one later of my hair today. I added a few just to show how wide the range of curl is that I can have.

    This photo was taken in October. I have a funny look on my face because it was so cold. I can't remember what exactly I was doing to my hair at this time but it was pretty similar to what I do now. This was a pretty good hair day. I tend to prefer softer but smoother curls like this even if they are a littler bigger as opposed to smaller crunchier curls.

    jpg.gif

    This photo was my wedding. This was with a lot of product and not my usual routine. But, this is about as curly as it gets.

    jpg.gif

    This was taken about 4 years ago. At this point I had accepted my hair was curly but wasn't really working to amplify the curl in anyway. I had probably blown it dry a little bit.

    jpg.gif

    This was before I had decided to accept my curl. I never straightened it with an iron or anything. But I would blow it it dry as much as I could until the curl was gone.

    jpg.gif
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    P.S. I don't think my hair looks that thick in any of these photos. It gets thinned and layered which really helps with the dry time and keeps it from looking over the top thick. But, before I started getting it thinned it didn't fit in pony tail holders, barrettes or most any hair accessories.
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    PG, my husband and I just looked at your wedding pic and we agreed that your hair is very similar to mine. I dont think you should get your hair thinned and layered, if you dont mind my saying; I dont think curls should ever be thinned, thick, beautiful curls are a treasure. And thinned... no no no. You need to find another stylist if that is what is happening. I rarely get my hair cut any more; my stylist just snips a curl here and there; I think about 2 months ago I got a full cut (dry) which is still vastly different than what I used to get done.

    I leave my clips in - all 12 or 14 of them - until my hair is almost totally dry - then I pull them out, look at my hair, and usually put 2 or 3 back in the top so that it looks like I want it to. I love the clips. I diffused today to cut down on the drying time - then put the clips in.
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    I have wondered about getting it thinned since I have been wearing it curlier. I have read a lot about thinning not being good for you. One little change at a time I guess! I'm scared it will never dry if I don't thin it. Especially in winter. It also feels SO heavy like I have a hat on!

    My hair is pretty dry now. I just checked it in the mirror again. (Husband is napping and can't take a photo.) I really like the clips! Thanks for encouraging me to try them. Not only did they help with the flatness but also gave me better curls because I didn't have to keep touching my hair to plump it up. Maybe I will get a few more clips and I think I can do an even better job. Especially if I leave them in longer.

    As, I've been typing in this thread I have been thinking that adding TONS of product, never touching, never combing, working SO hard to create curl is almost as unnatural as flat ironing, curling irons, tons of heat, brushing etc. I think being truly natural is somewhere in the middle. Your hair shouldn't feel like a job!

    I think that is why I don't worry how much curl I have as long as it is enough to have have some life and stay out of my face. (The curlier it is the less it falls in my face.) I also say you have to be able to run your fingers through your hair without them getting stuck!
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I understand your feelings. I dont use a ton of products. My limit is two, and that is because one does most of the curl formation, and the other is for hold. I think what a lot of curlies do here is pretty crazy, if I can be totally candid for a minute; adding this adding that, mixing this with that, it IS crazy.
  • pianogirlpianogirl Posts: 59Registered Users
    I tried the clips again today with even better results! I really like them. I bought 4 more this afternoon. They have rubber grips inside. I am wondering if that is a mistake. The rubber seems to stick to the hair. (I tried them out on dry hair.) I could see this leading to frizz. Maybe it won't be a big deal. I am not a big fan of accessories with the rubber inside because the rubber seems to get hung up in the hair. I know thats the point but I don't really find it necessary.
    2C, low porosity, high density, coarse, shoulder length No sulfates, no parabens, no silicones
    Shampoo- Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva No Poo, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Conditioner- Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk, Giovanni Smooth As Silk, Deva One Condition, Nature's Gate Aloe Vera, Yes To Carrots
    Styler- Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, Shea Moisture Shine & Hold Mist, Yes to Carrots Leave In and Yes To Carrots Anti-Frizz Serum
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,363Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    There was a lot of discussion on line when I was looking for clips. I HATED the metal ones, I dont care how they are shaped, they pulled out my hair and didnt work. Clips at Sally, Walgreens were discussed. In the end, I ordered the CHS ones, they are very gentle and have no plastic..they dont pull my hair at all. At $18 for a dozen, I consider them a bargain. I have spent a lot more on products of some sort or the other that do not work. So, even if a product is a bit pricey, or I cant get it on the ground, if it works for me, I will go for it. I encourage you to get the CHS ones. If they dont work for you, let me know and I'll take them off your hands. : )
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