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telogen effluvium and hair loss

6/26/13 EDIT:

I went to the dermatologist finally and he studied my scalp. He said that most likely the thinning was caused by a stressful event from a project I underwent 3 months prior to the start of the thinning. This can happen and is called telogen effluvium. For whatever reason the cowashing may have been exacerbating the shedding, which decreased radically after I stopped cowashing. I'm really relieved because I now know the cause of my thinning!

Bottom line is if you think your hair is shedding excessively or thinning, you should get yourself to the derm ASAP. If you think you're getting a negative reaction from anything you're doing or using, stop right away and consult your derm and/or your family doctor.



I searched and seen a lot of threads on this, and here I am to add my story as well.

I've been "accidentally CG" for at least 3 years now, as in I have been using low-poos and products w/out silicones, not brushing while dry, without knowing what CG was. I used to use Burt's Bees More Moisture Raspberry Shampoo and Condish, which did fine for my hair. They've discontinued this product, and then I got a bad haircut that gave me really really bad frizz around the same time, so I was searching for new products and a way to get my hair back in shape and came across the CG method.

I've been "intentionally CG" for 4 months now. I stopped using low-poos and started co-washing then. 4 months later I can actually feel a difference in the density of my hair. I've my studying my head all week... I wanted to make sure it wasn't just my imagination. Sadly it's not. My ponytail is smaller, and I can feel a difference when I run my hands through my hair. I'm also seeing more of my scalp when I put up my hair or part it in various places.

I'm really sad about this because cowashing was doing great things to my hair; it was soft, smooth and supple. But I guess it's not doing great things to my hair because it's thinning. I did notice while cowashing that huge gobs of my hair were coming out in the shower, but I've always been a shedder so I guess I didn't really get alarmed. I know we shed like 150 hairs a day... and I thought I was seeing less on the floor so I figured it would make sense to see more in the shower. But it is different now... it's not the regular shedding because my regular shedding has never made a difference in the overall density of my hair, which this has.

I'm thinking maybe it has to do with the manual friction of cowashing... like i'm literally ripping out more hairs in the cowashing process, and they're obviously not growing back as fast as I'm ripping them out. This issue is definitely not breakage... the hairs are coming out from the root not breaking mid-strand.

I have to add that I never had any scalp problems from co-washing. No itching, no buildup, no weird smells nothing. My scalp always felt clean and my hair felt great.... so I was completely on the CG wagon! Until this.

I don't know exactly what's going on but needless to say I've gone back to low-pooing. I just really hope I haven't done any permanent damage to my hair follicles or anything, and the hair will grow back normally.

I just wanted to share my story. I know cowashing works great w/ no bad side effects for many curlies, but I would feel I was doing a disservice if I didn't post my experience.
«134

Comments

  • CurlyCutie1394CurlyCutie1394 Posts: 348Registered Users
    I was CG for about 6 weeks and noticed my hair thinning. I had to stop because I've always had thick hair and couldn't imagine how pitiful my hair would look if I continued
  • 7OH4_QC7OH4_QC Posts: 57Registered Users
    Wow I've never tried, but this sounds horrible! I have 4c type hair with high porosity (my hair floats). Currently I've been silicone/sulfate free for 10 months and I've noticed my hair softer yes and a little "fragile". I have been using protein treatments on a 6 week routine. So far so good..

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using CurlTalk App
  • CrazyCatLadyCrazyCatLady Posts: 63Registered Users
    this is scary, have you talked with your doctor to confirm it is in fact scalp massages that are causing your hair loss?
    CURLS
    2B/C

    HOLY GRAILS
    LO-POO Shea Moisture: Restorative Shampoo (2x/mnth)
    CW V05
    RO GVP Conditioning Balm
    LI Suave Naturals: Tropical Coconut
    PROD Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper and LA Looks: Anti-Frizz
    T's Shea Moisture: Deep Treatment Masque or Shea Moisture: Anti-Breakage Hair Masque, Coconut Oil (1x/wk)
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    I was CG for about 6 weeks and noticed my hair thinning. I had to stop because I've always had thick hair and couldn't imagine how pitiful my hair would look if I continued

    I'm sorry to hear it was happening to you as well. It's really disturbing to feel like your hair is leaving you. Has your hair grown back normally since then?
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    this is scary, have you talked with your doctor to confirm it is in fact scalp massages that are causing your hair loss?

    I don't know whether or not it is the scalp massages that are causing the hair loss... it's just a hypothesis. It coud be due to, I don't know, overmoisturizing the scalp or maybe a specific ingredient in my co-wash that my scalp doesn't agree with.

    I do have a medical check up coming up in about a month where I'll be getting regular bloodwork done which will help rule out any other possibilities. However I doubt my cowashing and my hair thinning is just a coincidence or that my cowashing and happened to coincide with something else which is thinning my hair. I haven't been doing anything different in terms of diet exercise, the way I sleep, stress, etc. Also, other people have posted on the boards with this exact problem so there's a thread here. (pardon the pun)

    The average doctor would probably be perplexed as to why I would even be washing my head with conditioner. I don't believe the CG method is circulating medical journals nor is it high on doctors' priority lists. So if I've been doing something different, and it has negative effects, a doctor would probably just tell me to stop doing that thing and see if the problem persists, which is what I'm doing now anyway. Gone back to low poos and hoping to see some baby hairs soon.

    Again I've been using low-poos for years now and had zero problems with them. This is a specifically conditioner-washing problem.
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    7OH4_QC wrote: »
    Wow I've never tried, but this sounds horrible! I have 4c type hair with high porosity (my hair floats). Currently I've been silicone/sulfate free for 10 months and I've noticed my hair softer yes and a little "fragile". I have been using protein treatments on a 6 week routine. So far so good..

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using CurlTalk App

    If you're low-pooing regularly you should be in the clear. If your hair feel softer and more "fragile" it could be due to overconditioning... which protein treatments should be helping.

    But hey, at the end of the day, do what's best for your hair.
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I really doubt it's the cowashing. I would guess it is due to hormonal changes or simply getting older. My hair started thinning in my late 20's, early 30's. and I wasn't CG. your hair and skin changes throughout your life.
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • Corrina777Corrina777 Posts: 3,193Registered Users
    I know I've seen some threads about this and I don't have a theory about why. But I second the others as far as doing what works for your hair. I've said it on other threads, but I don't think it's something that can be overemphasized. While we've all seen some of the amazing CG transformations that people share here, I know plenty if people with amazing curls who are not CG at all. I really believe that as long as you are consciously gentle with your hair and aware of keeping your hair properly moisturized, whether you're CG or not doesn't matter. I suspect that's why I've found that I can use some silicone products and get better results now than I got three years ago when my hair was dry. I use a gentle sulfate shampoo that's loaded with protein and pH balanced to be gentle, and alternate between that, a couple of low-poos and cleansing conditioners (most of which have coco betaine in case I use cones) and one extremely light straight conditioner for cowashing. Despite not being strict CG, my stylist was raving about how healthy my hair was when I went for my last cut.
    It's your hair- do what works for you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    3a/f/iii
    Modified CG since 11/5/11
    CLEANSE: CJ Daily Fix, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
    RO: SS Caitlin's Conditioner, CJ Beauticurls Strengthening
    LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
    STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier,Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    chloe92us wrote: »
    I really doubt it's the cowashing. I would guess it is due to hormonal changes or simply getting older. My hair started thinning in my late 20's, early 30's. and I wasn't CG. your hair and skin changes throughout your life.

    Thanks for your input but I really think it's the cowashing. The difference in the density of my hair is drastic and has taken place over the last 4 months, exactly the time I've been cowashing.
  • laura1982laura1982 Posts: 69Registered Users
    I've noticed a lot more hair coming out in the shower since CG - but as my hair doesn't look or feel any different I'm carrying on... My theory is perhaps its coming out in the shower and not during the day... Hmmm....
  • CurlyCutie1394CurlyCutie1394 Posts: 348Registered Users
    I was CG for about 6 weeks and noticed my hair thinning. I had to stop because I've always had thick hair and couldn't imagine how pitiful my hair would look if I continued

    I'm sorry to hear it was happening to you as well. It's really disturbing to feel like your hair is leaving you. Has your hair grown back normally since then?

    Yea it grew back but I know Cowashing is not for me
  • JessiebananaJessiebanana Posts: 940Banned Users
    Wait...you're rubbing your scalp more aggressively when you co wash? I massage my scalp when Iow poo, it's essential for all cleansing, but you don't need to me more intense for cowashing? It's not good for your hair as far as raising the cuticle either.
    3C/Fine to Medium/Low Porosity/High Density

    :love5:MoistureMoistureMoisture:love5:

    Low Poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo
    RO/DC: DB Pumpkin Seed Curl Moisturizing Conditioner
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: Queen Helene Sculpturing Gel & Glaze

    No Salts, No Waxes, No Butters, No Heavy Oils
    No ACV, No Saponified Oils, Protein Sensitive
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    This is a picture for reference. Ugh it looks so bad.

    My hair has NEVER looked like this. My hair was always on the thick side... or at the very least medium density and this looks like I'm balding.

    I'm just really hoping and praying that it will grow back. If it doesn't I don't know what I'll do. I'm trying to keep positive but I'm scared.
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    I was CG for about 6 weeks and noticed my hair thinning. I had to stop because I've always had thick hair and couldn't imagine how pitiful my hair would look if I continued

    I'm sorry to hear it was happening to you as well. It's really disturbing to feel like your hair is leaving you. Has your hair grown back normally since then?

    Yea it grew back but I know Cowashing is not for me

    That's good to know. That it grew back. I'd be fine with this experiment as long as I can have my tresses back.
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    Wait...you're rubbing your scalp more aggressively when you co wash? I massage my scalp when Iow poo, it's essential for all cleansing, but you don't need to me more intense for cowashing? It's not good for your hair as far as raising the cuticle either.

    Yes I've been massaging my scalp really well. I thought it was essential for cowashing, as opposed to poo-ing where you didn't have to massage as much because the suds were helping to remove dirt.
  • JessiebananaJessiebanana Posts: 940Banned Users
    Wait...you're rubbing your scalp more aggressively when you co wash? I massage my scalp when Iow poo, it's essential for all cleansing, but you don't need to me more intense for cowashing? It's not good for your hair as far as raising the cuticle either.

    Yes I've been massaging my scalp really well. I thought it was essential for cowashing, as opposed to poo-ing where you didn't have to massage as much because the suds were helping to remove dirt.

    There is an article somewhere on this site that lists that as a myth. The suds distribute, but plenty of people have build up on their scalp from not massaging product and oil off. You don't have be rough though. You should always be gentle with your scalp and hair.
    3C/Fine to Medium/Low Porosity/High Density

    :love5:MoistureMoistureMoisture:love5:

    Low Poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo
    RO/DC: DB Pumpkin Seed Curl Moisturizing Conditioner
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: Queen Helene Sculpturing Gel & Glaze

    No Salts, No Waxes, No Butters, No Heavy Oils
    No ACV, No Saponified Oils, Protein Sensitive
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    Wait...you're rubbing your scalp more aggressively when you co wash? I massage my scalp when Iow poo, it's essential for all cleansing, but you don't need to me more intense for cowashing? It's not good for your hair as far as raising the cuticle either.

    Yes I've been massaging my scalp really well. I thought it was essential for cowashing, as opposed to poo-ing where you didn't have to massage as much because the suds were helping to remove dirt.

    There is an article somewhere on this site that lists that as a myth. The suds distribute, but plenty of people have build up on their scalp from not massaging product and oil off. You don't have be rough though. You should always be gentle with your scalp and hair.

    I understand. Low-pooing, in whatever way I was going about it, never gave me any trouble though (other than dry hair which is why I started cowashing. But now that I know about leave-in conditioners and deep treatments etc. I don't really need to cowash for the moisture anymore.)

    I understand about being gentle though but I always thought it was emphasized that you have to massage your scalp well while cowashing. The thing is, when hair is wet it is easy to pull out... that's why it's easier and less painful to tweeze your eyebrows soon after a shower than when completely dry.
  • JessiebananaJessiebanana Posts: 940Banned Users

    Yes I've been massaging my scalp really well. I thought it was essential for cowashing, as opposed to poo-ing where you didn't have to massage as much because the suds were helping to remove dirt.

    There is an article somewhere on this site that lists that as a myth. The suds distribute, but plenty of people have build up on their scalp from not massaging product and oil off. You don't have be rough though. You should always be gentle with your scalp and hair.

    I understand. Low-pooing, in whatever way I was going about it, never gave me any trouble though (other than dry hair which is why I started cowashing. But now that I know about leave-in conditioners and deep treatments etc. I don't really need to cowash for the moisture anymore.)

    I understand about being gentle though but I always thought it was emphasized that you have to massage your scalp well while cowashing. The thing is, when hair is wet it is easy to pull out... that's why it's easier and less painful to tweeze your eyebrows soon after a shower than when completely dry.

    I realize that, but even when I tried cowashing, (which wasn't for me, so I'm not trying to convince you to go back), I still didn't rub any harder and I didn't have scalp problems. Taking your time and being thorough is different than being more intense. I have dry thin skin so too much exfoliating can actually rub skin off for me, which is a lot less superficial than just losing some hair. I am careful with all the skin on my body, except for the bottom of my feet :p.
    3C/Fine to Medium/Low Porosity/High Density

    :love5:MoistureMoistureMoisture:love5:

    Low Poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo
    RO/DC: DB Pumpkin Seed Curl Moisturizing Conditioner
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: Queen Helene Sculpturing Gel & Glaze

    No Salts, No Waxes, No Butters, No Heavy Oils
    No ACV, No Saponified Oils, Protein Sensitive
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users

    There is an article somewhere on this site that lists that as a myth. The suds distribute, but plenty of people have build up on their scalp from not massaging product and oil off. You don't have be rough though. You should always be gentle with your scalp and hair.

    I understand. Low-pooing, in whatever way I was going about it, never gave me any trouble though (other than dry hair which is why I started cowashing. But now that I know about leave-in conditioners and deep treatments etc. I don't really need to cowash for the moisture anymore.)

    I understand about being gentle though but I always thought it was emphasized that you have to massage your scalp well while cowashing. The thing is, when hair is wet it is easy to pull out... that's why it's easier and less painful to tweeze your eyebrows soon after a shower than when completely dry.

    I realize that, but even when I tried cowashing, (which wasn't for me, so I'm not trying to convince you to go back), I still didn't rub any harder and I didn't have scalp problems. Taking your time and being thorough is different than being more intense. I have dry thin skin so too much exfoliating can actually rub skin off for me, which is a lot less superficial than just losing some hair. I am careful with all the skin on my body, except for the bottom of my feet :p.

    That makes sense. Maybe you're on to something. In any case I'm too scared to go back to cowashing now.
  • LynaeaLynaea Posts: 394Registered Users
    Laura1982, I think you're right about that. Before CG I would lose hairs throughout the day but now the products hold it in and it all comes out in the shower. If you're not seeing thinner hair it's most likely normal shedding that can't escape ;)

    On the issue of massaging I can say from experience that I did not wash well when I used shampoo because I thought the suds would do the job. I would often end up with a smelly scalp within 24 hours. Since going CG and learning to massage properly my scalp feels (and smells) much cleaner. I massage about the same amount regardless of whether I'm co-washing or low-pooing.
    :nemo: 2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012 :nemo:

    This is what I'm happiest with right now.
    Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
    Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
    RO: SS Caitlin's co
    Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
    PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
    Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
    Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
    :thumbdown: glycerin, honey, oils & butters :thumright: Protein!
  • JessiebananaJessiebanana Posts: 940Banned Users
    That's fine. Being scared is okay, just as long as you're aware.
    3C/Fine to Medium/Low Porosity/High Density

    :love5:MoistureMoistureMoisture:love5:

    Low Poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo
    RO/DC: DB Pumpkin Seed Curl Moisturizing Conditioner
    LI: CJ Smoothing Lotion
    Styler: Queen Helene Sculpturing Gel & Glaze

    No Salts, No Waxes, No Butters, No Heavy Oils
    No ACV, No Saponified Oils, Protein Sensitive
  • chloe92uschloe92us Posts: 1,203Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    chloe92us wrote: »
    I really doubt it's the cowashing. I would guess it is due to hormonal changes or simply getting older. My hair started thinning in my late 20's, early 30's. and I wasn't CG. your hair and skin changes throughout your life.

    Thanks for your input but I really think it's the cowashing. The difference in the density of my hair is drastic and has taken place over the last 4 months, exactly the time I've been cowashing.

    Sorry, I didn't read your OP well enough- I thought it had been over the 3 year period you've been CG.
    2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
    Cleanse: AIA cowash, TJ Tea Tree Condish
    Condish: JC Too Shea, Tresemme Botanique
    Stylers: flax/okra gel or KCCC + CJ PP or JC Spiralicious
    Experimenting with Got2B Ultra gel and loving it so far!
  • BlackAngelPlayahBlackAngelPlayah Posts: 1,419Registered Users
    I can't exclusively cowash either. My hair starts shedding like mad and my scalp gets pissed off at me. I can do it 3 weeks in a row max. Then I have to lather up. I do use sulfate free shampoo though. And my products at CG friendly.
    :afro:FroZen:afro:
  • cristi05cristi05 Posts: 27Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I'm going to throw another "theory" out there. I believe that conditioner on the scalp, with or without massage, tends to open the hair follicle allowing it to release the hair. It took a year for me to learn than I cannot conditioner wash either. I noticed that my hair was falling out at the root - not breaking off. Any comments on my crazy theory??
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    cristi05 wrote: »
    I'm going to throw another "theory" out there. I believe that conditioner on the scalp, with or without massage, tends to open the hair follicle allowing it to release the hair. It took a year for me to learn than I cannot conditioner wash either. I noticed that my hair was falling out at the root - not breaking off. Any comments on my crazy theory??

    Actually I found this which is somewhat close to your theory. This poster basically realized that conditioner-washing was softening the roots too much, thus leading to excessive shedding during the cleansing and detangling process.

    This might sound like me. The roots of my hair were particularly soft and smooth (which I liked at the time).

    As long as it grows back, that's all I care about now!

    Excessive Shedding: Could Co-Washing Be the Culprit? | hairscapades
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    So my last three washes were low-poos.

    I just washed my hair w/ my low-poo and took care to be extremely gentle. I didn't detangle in the shower. I got out and applied some KCKT and detangled then.

    WOW what a difference! I checked the drain and there were maybe 10-15 hairs today. When I detangled I lost maybe another 10 hairs. That is a HUGE difference to how much I was shedding in the shower last week.

    I don't know how many hairs I was losing last week while cowashing, but it was a BALL of wet hair, easily 15 times more hair than I lost today. Today it almost didn't even look as if I had to clean the drain at all. I wish I would have taken pictures of the drain last week to show you a comparison... but gross, who thinks of doing that?

    Yes, I am losing some more hairs in my daily life (like when I run my fingers through my hair) but I still don't think it's adding up to just how much hair was in the drain. I didn't even realize how much it was (because the amount grew slowly in the last 4 months) until today. I didn't even think it was possible to lose such little hair.

    This (revelation) might be a good sign (in figuring out my problem). Keeping my fingers crossed and I'll keep you posted.
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    By the way, thank you to everyone who has shown interest or support in my case! :love5: I can only hope that I'll figure it out, and that the information will help (or warn) current and future curly co-washers with the same problem.
  • Firefox7275Firefox7275 Posts: 3,750Registered Users
    Sorry to read this. As I have posted on the other thread, the link between sulphate surfactant shampoos and shedding/ hair loss is believed to be inflammation at the follicular level and I wonder if this is playing a role here. Inflammation or irritation does not have to be visible to be present or to be causing health problems.

    Is your diet and lifestyle as anti inflammatory as possible? Bearing in mind the US/ UK diet is highly pro inflammatory, even the standard self proclaimed 'healthy' diet is often pro inflammatory.

    Don't be over enthusiastic with massage, scrubs or pulling at the roots/ detangling, especially if you have any other inflammatory conditions (non skin/ scalp). I find it necessary to be thorough but I don't pull on my hair when detangling at all, let the amount of product (a pile) do the work, and rinse very well until my roots are 'squeaky' with a little massage.

    Also choose a product containing basic ingredients: it sometimes concerns me how many are subjecting delicate skin to numerous plant extracts, fragrances and other less than skin friendly chemicals plus 'moisturising' ingredients that will coat and may hold the nasties on the scalp. If you add in sweating, exercise or UV light you have a recipe for cellular irritation/ inflammation.

    Anyone who is concerned about cleansing the sebaceous glands of sebum there is an interesting article on cold pre wash rinses over on the Long Hair Community.

    CO-washing is not fundamentally much different to cleansing heavy make up off with a cleansing lotion or those with dermatitis cleansing their body with a cream instead of foaming shower gel which doctors do prescribe. No health professional should really freak out about the concept, tho they might have reservations about particular products, ingredients or techniques.
    2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

    CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
    Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
    Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
    Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
    Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
    Experimenting with: benign neglect
  • LynaeaLynaea Posts: 394Registered Users
    Firefox has a good point, it's possible you're allergic to something that's in your co-wash but not in the low-poo. Fragrance and preservatives play a big role in what I can and can't use due to skin allergies.
    :nemo: 2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012 :nemo:

    This is what I'm happiest with right now.
    Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
    Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
    RO: SS Caitlin's co
    Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
    PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
    Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
    Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
    :thumbdown: glycerin, honey, oils & butters :thumright: Protein!
  • PomegranateCurlPomegranateCurl Posts: 212Registered Users
    It's definitely possible that there's one specific ingredient that my scalp does not like. As far as allergies, I don't know... I didn't have any allergic symptoms. Just hair loss over a few months.
«134

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