CurlTalk

Hubby is white and has black man hair... What to do with it?!

Curls&AgapeCurls&Agape Posts: 52Registered Users
My husband has amazingly unique hair. You see he is white... With no African or any other black descent whatsoever.... Yet his hair is freakin Curly... Like it must be 4b or 4c. The other day at work he was serving and African American fellow, and the guy stops mid-sentence, looks at hubby's hair in surprise, smiles and goes "hey! You've got hair like a brother!" Hahaha. His parents don't have curls.... Nor anyone down the line that we know. Odd throwback I guess..

Anyways his hair doesn't feel like hair. It feel like... Wool... Like a lamb but not soft. It just feels like its not hair. It's insanely dry and it's soooo curly... If he lets it grow any longer than about 8cm, it begins to curl into itself and form dreadlocks. Perfect ones. He has grown natural dreadlocks before... Got them to about mid-back length... But they started to get too heavy and it pulled on his scalp which gave him dandruff and a sore scalp so he cut them all off and started again.

He now has a mini-afro. All he has to do is use his fingers, or an afro comb and it sticks out heaps haha. Like a fuzzy halo. I adore his hair, but I think it needs some TLC.

Judging by what I've said... What is the best option to give his hair a full on moisture hit? He currently washes (sulfate free shampoo) and then leaves a boatload of good quality conditioner in his hair every 3 days. He uses no product except the occasional use of curly girl friendly gel for special occasions. Tonight I put coconut oil in his hair. My hair is only 3A, and I can only put a tiny bit of coconut oil in, like a teaspoon to a tablespoon and my hair looks oily and wet (until my hair eats it overnight) but I had used a large handful in his hair (it's only about 8-10cm long at its longest point on the top, without pulling.) and it looked like i hadn't put anything in there. Looked like he has a few measily raindrops in his hair.....

So hmmm. What to use? No too expensive we are on a strict budget .
Thanks!

Comments

  • BeautyisMireeBeautyisMiree Posts: 202Registered Users
    My husband has amazingly unique hair. You see he is white... With no African or any other black descent whatsoever.... Yet his hair is freakin Curly... Like it must be 4b or 4c. The other day at work he was serving and African American fellow, and the guy stops mid-sentence, looks at hubby's hair in surprise, smiles and goes "hey! You've got hair like a brother!" Hahaha. His parents don't have curls.... Nor anyone down the line that we know. Odd throwback I guess..

    Anyways his hair doesn't feel like hair. It feel like... Wool... Like a lamb but not soft. It just feels like its not hair. It's insanely dry and it's soooo curly... If he lets it grow any longer than about 8cm, it begins to curl into itself and form dreadlocks. Perfect ones. He has grown natural dreadlocks before... Got them to about mid-back length... But they started to get too heavy and it pulled on his scalp which gave him dandruff and a sore scalp so he cut them all off and started again.

    He now has a mini-afro. All he has to do is use his fingers, or an afro comb and it sticks out heaps haha. Like a fuzzy halo. I adore his hair, but I think it needs some TLC.

    Judging by what I've said... What is the best option to give his hair a full on moisture hit? He currently washes (sulfate free shampoo) and then leaves a boatload of good quality conditioner in his hair every 3 days. He uses no product except the occasional use of curly girl friendly gel for special occasions. Tonight I put coconut oil in his hair. My hair is only 3A, and I can only put a tiny bit of coconut oil in, like a teaspoon to a tablespoon and my hair looks oily and wet (until my hair eats it overnight) but I had used a large handful in his hair (it's only about 8-10cm long at its longest point on the top, without pulling.) and it looked like i hadn't put anything in there. Looked like he has a few measily raindrops in his hair.....

    So hmmm. What to use? No too expensive we are on a strict budget .
    Thanks!

    There is no such thing as black man hair. Races aren't reserved for a certain hair type meaning you can be straight from Nigeria with 3a hair.

    Men and women take care of their hair very differently. If your husband is trying to grow long hair then I can help him out in that department, but if he wants short hair.

    Do a Avocado mask hair treatment because it leaves my hair feeling very soft. All you need is avocado, honey, Greek yogurt and that's it.
  • Curls&AgapeCurls&Agape Posts: 52Registered Users
    You sound offended. If so, I'm sorry, I didn't intend to come off offensively. Perhaps i should have worded the title differently or something. Yes, I'm well aware that not all black, or, coloured people have curly hair. That's obvious... But where I'm from, it is extremely rare for any fully white man or woman to have 4b 4c wooly afro hair. It's pretty much unheard of. Hubby gets ALOT of comments and complements on his hair because it is so unusual of someone of his pale complexion to have such hair. That's what I was getting at. Yes, race are not reserved to a certain hair type. My hubby is living proof of that. But stereotypes ring true sometimes, and here in Australia, people with his kind of curls are 99% of the time, very dark. We've only seen one other person who was white with his hair, and they had African descendants way back a few generations. Maybe in other countries its more common. Not here.

    Thanks for the avocado tip, ill definitely give it a try. He isn't interested in getting it long. It seems to grow pretty well on its own anyway. But he was hoping to get it healthier. Moisturized. Maybe a little softer??

    Thanks again.
  • LovemenappyLovemenappy Posts: 332Registered Users
    You sound offended. If so, I'm sorry, I didn't intend to come off offensively. Perhaps i should have worded the title differently or something. Yes, I'm well aware that not all black, or, coloured people have curly hair. That's obvious... But where I'm from, it is extremely rare for any fully white man or woman to have 4b 4c wooly afro hair. It's pretty much unheard of. Hubby gets ALOT of comments and complements on his hair because it is so unusual of someone of his pale complexion to have such hair. That's what I was getting at. Yes, race are not reserved to a certain hair type. My hubby is living proof of that. But stereotypes ring true sometimes, and here in Australia, people with his kind of curls are 99% of the time, very dark. We've only seen one other person who was white with his hair, and they had African descendants way back a few generations. Maybe in other countries its more common. Not here.

    Thanks for the avocado tip, ill definitely give it a try. He isn't interested in getting it long. It seems to grow pretty well on its own anyway. But he was hoping to get it healthier. Moisturized. Maybe a little softer??

    Thanks again.
    I know what you mean and I personally wasnt offended at all. I think a lot of times people get so wrapped up in the pc terminology regarding hair. There is no such thing as "black hair" but I think we all know that it is not common place to see white men walking around with 4b textured hair just as it is not common place to see black women with naturally silky straight hair. Also, I take it you were referencing moreso the texture...not a big deal, no worries. :)

    Does he have a prob with detangling? I personally like the Oyin Hair Dew. :)
  • adthomasadthomas Posts: 5,525Registered Users
    I think you try doing a weekly deep condtiOner. I like mixing banana baby food with honey but everyone has their favs. Just adding oil to my hair would do nothing for it unless I was sitting under a dryer.

    I think race is pretty irrelevant so I usually avoid race hair care questions. But i want to know how do you know your husband is 100 percent white? I guess you are basing his whiteness on his complexion but not all people considered non-white are dark. several of my relatives have lighter skin than a lot of "white" people and there is no recent white person in my family. Truth is most people are not all anything and long ago traits can sometimes surface. There is a movie called Skin about a white South African couple who had black kids because they likely both had traces of black blood and didn't know it but the recessive traits connected and batabambataboom. Aren't native Australians persecuted? here in the US there were a lot of multirace people who could pass for white who did to escape Jim Crow and be able to live more comfortably as white people. They moved away from home, disowned their families and went to live as if they were "just white" people. So maybe somebody somewhere down the line squirted some chocolate in yo milk.
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  • chupiechupie Posts: 5,270Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    All I could think of was "momma a 3 and daddy a 4 ... Your kids are going to have incredible curls."
  • KinkyChicKinkyChic Posts: 58Registered Users
    My husband has amazingly unique hair. You see he is white... With no African or any other black descent whatsoever.... Yet his hair is freakin Curly... Like it must be 4b or 4c. The other day at work he was serving and African American fellow, and the guy stops mid-sentence, looks at hubby's hair in surprise, smiles and goes "hey! You've got hair like a brother!" Hahaha. His parents don't have curls.... Nor anyone down the line that we know. Odd throwback I guess..

    Anyways his hair doesn't feel like hair. It feel like... Wool... Like a lamb but not soft. It just feels like its not hair. It's insanely dry and it's soooo curly... If he lets it grow any longer than about 8cm, it begins to curl into itself and form dreadlocks. Perfect ones. He has grown natural dreadlocks before... Got them to about mid-back length... But they started to get too heavy and it pulled on his scalp which gave him dandruff and a sore scalp so he cut them all off and started again.

    He now has a mini-afro. All he has to do is use his fingers, or an afro comb and it sticks out heaps haha. Like a fuzzy halo. I adore his hair, but I think it needs some TLC.

    Judging by what I've said... What is the best option to give his hair a full on moisture hit? He currently washes (sulfate free shampoo) and then leaves a boatload of good quality conditioner in his hair every 3 days. He uses no product except the occasional use of curly girl friendly gel for special occasions. Tonight I put coconut oil in his hair. My hair is only 3A, and I can only put a tiny bit of coconut oil in, like a teaspoon to a tablespoon and my hair looks oily and wet (until my hair eats it overnight) but I had used a large handful in his hair (it's only about 8-10cm long at its longest point on the top, without pulling.) and it looked like i hadn't put anything in there. Looked like he has a few measily raindrops in his hair.....

    So hmmm. What to use? No too expensive we are on a strict budget .
    Thanks!

    Giovanni products (50/50, Tea Tree Conditioner, Smooth As Silk, Direct Leave In is my favorite). Giovanni's Brazillian line is good also. After he washes and conditions, maybe a curl cream or paste or something to define (I know guys can be all macho about their hair products so I'm not very familiar with guy products). I know that Target has some that are specifically for men or more masculine. Maybe a liquid gel or even mousse?? Giovanni has mousse in their line up too as well as Shea Moisture.
  • CurlyCutie1394CurlyCutie1394 Posts: 348Registered Users
    He needs to deep condition more I guess
  • BeautyisMireeBeautyisMiree Posts: 202Registered Users
    You sound offended. If so, I'm sorry, I didn't intend to come off offensively. Perhaps i should have worded the title differently or something. Yes, I'm well aware that not all black, or, coloured people have curly hair. That's obvious... But where I'm from, it is extremely rare for any fully white man or woman to have 4b 4c wooly afro hair. It's pretty much unheard of. Hubby gets ALOT of comments and complements on his hair because it is so unusual of someone of his pale complexion to have such hair. That's what I was getting at. Yes, race are not reserved to a certain hair type. My hubby is living proof of that. But stereotypes ring true sometimes, and here in Australia, people with his kind of curls are 99% of the time, very dark. We've only seen one other person who was white with his hair, and they had African descendants way back a few generations. Maybe in other countries its more common. Not here.

    Thanks for the avocado tip, ill definitely give it a try. He isn't interested in getting it long. It seems to grow pretty well on its own anyway. But he was hoping to get it healthier. Moisturized. Maybe a little softer??

    Thanks again.

    Deep conditioning is a great way to soften up your hair. Get Greek yogurt and put in castor, olive, and coconut oil along with a rinse out conditioner.
    Put it in your husband's hair and leave him under a hooded dryer for 30-60 mins. If you don't have a hooded dryer then a shower cap on his head then a plastic bag over the shower cap. Use a blow dryer between the plastic bag because it will heat up the hair cuticles keeping them moisturized and soft.
  • Curls&AgapeCurls&Agape Posts: 52Registered Users
    Wow!! Thanks everyone for the different tips and methods... I wonder how many hubby will let me experiment on him!

    Adthomas: hahahaha you cracked me up. Chock in milk lollll. My hubby is a mix-breed lolll but European descent. German and Dutch. Both of who are profoundly "white". We were once told that there may have been random tribes in German mountains yrs and yrs ago.... Hmmm. To answer your question, Native Aussies (aboriginals) were treated horrifically back when Australia first colonized. It is a shameful story. Since then though I believe they have been more than compensated (as much as possible). Now they get extremely generous government handouts and everything handed to them on a silver platter, and also received a national apology from our prime minister (president). It is a shame things have turned out the way they have. Unfortunately many of them are dole bludgers who have been injected with a hate for whites for what our ancestors did to them. I believe the next generation should take the opportunity to make peace between each other and to make the most of the future they have been given. Some of them are doing so and it's inspirational. Us young folk shouldn't be fighting our great great grandparents war. It's over. Keep it that way. Lolll not really a hair topic I know.

    Chupie: our daughter has amazing 3c curls! Our son doesn't have much hair yet but I can see a twirl or two in there, I think he may have my hair :-)
  • Curls&AgapeCurls&Agape Posts: 52Registered Users
    Oh and just to add to the multi-racial vibe going off here, I was born and raised in Australia, but my parents made a mongrel. I'm of Italian, Irish and Spanish descent lollll
  • naturaldollnaturaldoll Posts: 567Registered Users
    ummms....that silver platter stuff isn't very nice, considering the hell the aboriginal people have been through since white people first arrived in austrailia. not very racially harmonious either. sounds downright, unapologetic and racist. I strongly STRONGLY advise a edit of the whole section, otherwise...well you'll see.

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  • annabananaliseannabananalise Posts: 1,913Registered Users
    Wow!! Thanks everyone for the different tips and methods... I wonder how many hubby will let me experiment on him!

    Adthomas: hahahaha you cracked me up. Chock in milk lollll. My hubby is a mix-breed lolll but European descent. German and Dutch. Both of who are profoundly "white". We were once told that there may have been random tribes in German mountains yrs and yrs ago.... Hmmm. To answer your question, Native Aussies (aboriginals) were treated horrifically back when Australia first colonized. It is a shameful story. Since then though I believe they have been more than compensated (as much as possible). Now they get extremely generous government handouts and everything handed to them on a silver platter, and also received a national apology from our prime minister (president). It is a shame things have turned out the way they have. Unfortunately many of them are dole bludgers who have been injected with a hate for whites for what our ancestors did to them. I believe the next generation should take the opportunity to make peace between each other and to make the most of the future they have been given. Some of them are doing so and it's inspirational. Us young folk shouldn't be fighting our great great grandparents war. It's over. Keep it that way. Lolll not really a hair topic I know.

    Chupie: our daughter has amazing 3c curls! Our son doesn't have much hair yet but I can see a twirl or two in there, I think he may have my hair :-)

    Oh wow you sure did try it.

    "They got an apology from the prime minister, why are they still upset over centuries of oppression/violence/racism? I think it's over bc I think they have everything given to them via handouts. Never mind Australia is still super racist and still oppresses natives. I didn't personally do anything to them so I cant imagine whyyyy they'd be resentful."

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  • BeautyisMireeBeautyisMiree Posts: 202Registered Users
    Wow!! Thanks everyone for the different tips and methods... I wonder how many hubby will let me experiment on him!

    Adthomas: hahahaha you cracked me up. Chock in milk lollll. My hubby is a mix-breed lolll but European descent. German and Dutch. Both of who are profoundly "white". We were once told that there may have been random tribes in German mountains yrs and yrs ago.... Hmmm. To answer your question, Native Aussies (aboriginals) were treated horrifically back when Australia first colonized. It is a shameful story. Since then though I believe they have been more than compensated (as much as possible). Now they get extremely generous government handouts and everything handed to them on a silver platter, and also received a national apology from our prime minister (president). It is a shame things have turned out the way they have. Unfortunately many of them are dole bludgers who have been injected with a hate for whites for what our ancestors did to them. I believe the next generation should take the opportunity to make peace between each other and to make the most of the future they have been given. Some of them are doing so and it's inspirational. Us young folk shouldn't be fighting our great great grandparents war. It's over. Keep it that way. Lolll not really a hair topic I know.

    Chupie: our daughter has amazing 3c curls! Our son doesn't have much hair yet but I can see a twirl or two in there, I think he may have my hair :-)

    It's the same way as to why blacks don't like white people that much in America. You try to suppress all the pain that you caused years ago and then you still don't treat us as equally. It doesn't matter if it happened 500 years ago nothing can compensate for the pain.
  • LoveInBetweenLoveInBetween Posts: 392Registered Users
    Wow!! Thanks everyone for the different tips and methods... I wonder how many hubby will let me experiment on him!

    Adthomas: hahahaha you cracked me up. Chock in milk lollll. My hubby is a mix-breed lolll but European descent. German and Dutch. Both of who are profoundly "white". We were once told that there may have been random tribes in German mountains yrs and yrs ago.... Hmmm. To answer your question, Native Aussies (aboriginals) were treated horrifically back when Australia first colonized. It is a shameful story. Since then though I believe they have been more than compensated (as much as possible). Now they get extremely generous government handouts and everything handed to them on a silver platter, and also received a national apology from our prime minister (president). It is a shame things have turned out the way they have. Unfortunately many of them are dole bludgers who have been injected with a hate for whites for what our ancestors did to them. I believe the next generation should take the opportunity to make peace between each other and to make the most of the future they have been given. Some of them are doing so and it's inspirational. Us young folk shouldn't be fighting our great great grandparents war. It's over. Keep it that way. Lolll not really a hair topic I know.

    Chupie: our daughter has amazing 3c curls! Our son doesn't have much hair yet but I can see a twirl or two in there, I think he may have my hair :-)

    I know you came here for suggestions and help for your hubby's hair and not to fight a racial battle with other members, so I'm here to help.


    The things the other women suggested are great and I do reccomend you try them. If his hair looks's like type 4 hair, acts like type 4 hair, then it is 4 hair and thus should be treated as 4 hair. Type 4 requires an enormous amount of moisture, if it deprived of that moisture it will feel like wool. Start a regimen that includes deep conditioners, hot oil treatments with a hooded dyer or steamer is a good idea to help the product penetrate the hair shaft. Leave ins and sealing will make a difference in moisture retention. When he's styling his 'fro in the morning a quick spritz with water or a refresher will replace moisture that was lost due to being absorbed by the pillow case and bedding when sleeping.

    My brother has 4 hair and had the same problem. After doing what I suggested, his fro is much softer and even has some shine.

    With that said, I'm sure you'll see a difference.

    Good luck with your hubby. (:


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  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
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  • moodydovemoodydove Posts: 1,721Registered Users
    Yikes...
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  • wild~hairwild~hair Posts: 9,890Registered Users
    We may have some sort of perfect storm situation happening here. Where to even begin ...
  • SayoonSayoon Posts: 432Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Drama caused by a random word ! Have fun
  • murrrcatmurrrcat Posts: 9,596Registered Users
    do the aboriginals live in 90,000 sqft mansions?

    I've never been to Australia, so I don't know.
    Cause that, is more than compensated.
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  • annabananaliseannabananalise Posts: 1,913Registered Users
    murrrcat wrote: »
    do the aboriginals live in 90,000 sqft mansions?

    I've never been to Australia, so I don't know.
    Cause that, is more than compensated.

    No but they prob have iphones but without jobs to earn them.
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  • scrillsscrills Posts: 6,700Registered Users
    Can you provide a picture. I think seeing the texture and length would help
  • ElenaMayleeElenaMaylee Posts: 88Registered Users
    murrrcat wrote: »
    do the aboriginals live in 90,000 sqft mansions?

    I've never been to Australia, so I don't know.
    Cause that, is more than compensated.

    I doubt it since aboriginals did not even have property rights to the land they lived on until 1992. From what I have read they were still going through a civil rights movement which started in the 1970s.
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  • LoveInBetweenLoveInBetween Posts: 392Registered Users
    scrills wrote: »
    Can you provide a picture. I think seeing the texture and length would help

    I'm also interested to see this white man with black man hair.

    Picture please?
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  • verlisverlis Posts: 16Registered Users
    I just joined this site a month ago but are you prone to trolls? This just sounds like a post that was meant to get people all riled up. Myself included when I first read it. I wouldn't be surprised if nothing more ever comes of it.
  • Curls&AgapeCurls&Agape Posts: 52Registered Users
    Thanks to those who helped with my question.

    To those who are offended:
    For goodness sake I did not mean that they have been paid back for their mistreatment. I said AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. There is no more anyone can do. The past cannot be erased... So all that can be done is for them to be treated as well as possible now. And that's what is happening. I am STRONGLY against the current generation using the past as a hate ticket. A victim mentality will get you absolutely nowhere in life. I have family members who are aboriginal and I am by no means racist. I can see how some native Americans would still feel the way they do. Your government hasn't done much to make it up to you. Not from the documentaries I have seen. But here in Australia, the aboriginals are treated extremely favorably. They get very very cheap rent, they get higher government benefits than any white family does, just because they are aboriginal. They get to go to PRIVATE schooling for FREE while whites have to pay thousands a year if they want to send there kids to the same decent schools. They, if they choose, can live off welfare. So, yes... They have been compensated AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. And I disagree that a mansion each would be considered ample payment. A mansion doesn't do much to fix the broken hearts. Trying to give them a better future then we once did certainly does help. And that's what's been done, for a long long time here. So get off your soap box and be careful before you scream out "racist". It's people who think they are owed something eternally that are racist. I did not kill your great great grandma... Someone else did.. And until you can come to terms with that, racism will be an ongoing terrible thing in society. Anyone Hating because of the long past crimes, is just as racist as the racist crimes themselves. It causes more racist crimes. Just look at South Africa at the moment and it'll prove my point.

    I have no problem with people of any race whatsoever. I have many aboriginal, African, Chinese, Spanish, Aussie and American friends, all of whom I love and respect. But I won't pretend I owe them anything.

    Peace.
  • Curls&AgapeCurls&Agape Posts: 52Registered Users
    And verlis: no. I have been apart of this curl community for over a year and never had a problem. It wasn't a "trigger" the fact is, I am absolutely not racist... And didn't realize that so many others are so sensitive. Seriously, if "black man hair" ... Plus a perfectly good explanation of my request, is reason to start waving banners, that's just ridiculous.

    And yeh, if the native Aussies want iPhones sure they get them just like everyone else. As far as jobs go, they are offered various training, job placement etc, they can go to UNI for almost free. It's rare to see them take up the offer but the offer stands. Which I think is excellent. What I wouldn't give to have my kids go through college for next to nothing.
  • Curls&AgapeCurls&Agape Posts: 52Registered Users
    And I will be posting a photo for those who can help. I'm on my phone but when I get to a laptop and its asking me for a "URL".. I don't even know what that is. Will post within the next few days. Thanks again to all who have great advice!
  • verlisverlis Posts: 16Registered Users
    Please understand where everyone was coming from and myself included. It was shocking to see your comment. Not about black man hair but about aboriginals. I am American so I am looking at it as through our country's past with Native Americans and African Americans. Despite making huge strides in inequality the past and the present just aren't undone. When your entire family is slaughtered or raped for the color of their skin it does something to an entire community of people that not even a mansion or free school can atone for. And thats just for African Americans. Native Americans had not only their land stolen hundreds of years ago but their children actually taken from them and placed in boarding schools forbidden to speak anything but English and forced to convert to Christianity. And both of these situations were common as sand and grass in the 1950s and 60s. I'm not sure about Australia but I feel like its a pretty similar concept. Additionally in America, and Australia I am assuming,minorities were banned from attending the best schools and universities and had next to nothing to inherit in the way of finances from their families. In America schools weren't even integrated until the 60s and someone said something earlier like programs for aboriginals didnt start until the 90s which I'm not sure if its true or not but if it is its sad. But 50 years which isn't even the lifespan of one person doesn't make up for your parents grandparent etc being banned from going to school and therefore having nothing to teach you or having your entire culture eliminated. Nor does an apology which kind as it may be is simply words too little too late. And even today I will once again use America because its what I know we may have an African American president but he is still called the n word publicly in the media like its just common. I don't agree with him on a lot of stuff. I haven't agreed with a lot of leaders but none of them have ever been personally attacked, their policies were attacked but not them and their families. I'm just saying that a few years of education etc means nothing. I know you didn't do it but please imagine how insensitive that can sound. Especially since those racist policies all weren't that long ago and are in living peoples memories ( people around 50 and up). It was just shocking to hear the sacrifices and lives of those people so flippantly discussed.
  • verlisverlis Posts: 16Registered Users
    For the record I would also like to add that my point isn't that anyone is owed anything but that it doesn't matter what anyone thinks they are owed because no amount of money or anything could repair the damage that has already been done. I simply respect their struggles and perseverance.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,059 Administrator
    BE COURTEOUS. BE TOLERANT. You're about to encounter many new friends in our community, with many new and interesting viewpoints. Please be respectful and tolerant of everyone you meet, even if you disagree with their opinions. Don't use language that is threatening, abusive, harassing, hateful or racially or ethnically objectionable. And don't engage in personal attacks. This includes NaturallyCurly.com staff, who work hard to keep our Community a fun spot to visit.


    OP, some of your comments seem to show a lack of sensitivity. Whether intentional or not, the damage has been done. It is best to close this thread. You may start another thread with the pics, and those who choose to help you shall do so. Please choose your words carefully.
This discussion has been closed.