CurlTalk

Spinoff--Are you pretty enough?

CurlswirlCurlswirl Posts: 526Registered Users
I was struck by the response, "pretty enough" from a few people on the post about if you would think you were pretty if you saw yourself on the street...What does pretty enough mean to you? When I look in the mirror I wonder if I am pretty enough...if I am not, what does that mean for me in my life? Why must I even ask that question? What does "pretty enough" mean to you in your life? Is it important in the grand scheme of things to you? If yes, why? If no, why?
«1

Comments

  • murrrcatmurrrcat Posts: 9,596Registered Users
    I think everyone is pretty in their own way. Everyone looks different so there's no way to say who's pretty. It's someone's opinion and my opinion, is that I've never seen an ugly woman. I honestly have not seen a woman who I would be like "she's ugly" or she's not pretty, because who says. I don't judge...but when I do judge, they're males.

    Misandry for life.
    tumblr_mji9u1Fwza1rh1wv4o1_500.jpg
  • PoPo Posts: 2,607Registered Users
    I meant pretty enough as in I'm pretty enough to be called pretty. Not a supermodel.

    It's not important in the grand scheme of things and even with the men I date. Being attractive only has a small part to do with one's face. I've dated guys who were not all that good-looking, but were well-groomed, funny, outgoing, generous, friendly, well-mannered, etc. which made them very attractive. And not just attractive to me, but to others.
    3c/4a
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    I find it frustrating when women are so concerned with whether we, or other women, are "pretty enough."

    Why not ask if you are smart enough, or capable enough, or strong enough, or kind enough, or loved enough, or content enough, or fulfilled enough, or talented enough, or happy enough, or challenged enough, or educated enough, or protected enough, or giving enough.... anything but the constant obsession with whether we are pretty enough?
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


    .png


    534Pm5.png





  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.
  • sKorpio1190sKorpio1190 Posts: 1,862Registered Users
    Amneris wrote: »
    I find it frustrating when women are so concerned with whether we, or other women, are "pretty enough."

    Why not ask if you are smart enough, or capable enough, or strong enough, or kind enough, or loved enough, or content enough, or fulfilled enough, or talented enough, or happy enough, or challenged enough, or educated enough, or protected enough, or giving enough.... anything but the constant obsession with whether we are pretty enough?

    This
    Medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity :shock:
  • sKorpio1190sKorpio1190 Posts: 1,862Registered Users
    It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

    I beg to differ. I have never used looks to get anything accomplished or to get my way. If anything, I always dress down and try to draw attention away from my looks
    Medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity :shock:
  • annabananaliseannabananalise Posts: 1,913Registered Users
    I agree with murrr, I've never seen an ugly woman just based on looks alone (personality is different) so idk I think all women are pretty.

    And while it is frustrating that society places women's looks high on a list of qualifiers for worth, I do admit I've used my looks to get things in life.
    Last relaxer: 8.4.10
    BC: 9.6.11
    tumblr_mkqgfjWwA41qcwgrvo1_500.gif
    when will your favs?

  • NejNej Posts: 2,444Registered Users
    It matters and it shouldn't. My weight has been all over the place and my value/intelligence/worth (men AND women) has always depended on my beauty. What could you get from me. When I weighed more I wasn't treated great. When I look like I do know, I could say anything and stupid people think I matter more. It's sick. It hurts me that grown women in relationships still care. It hurts me that I feel worthless if I'm within a certain weight. It hurts me when I work with young women who only want to be friends with women they think are attractive and who starve themselves. It's all sick. And I won't participate. My body is not up for public discussion.

    One of my best friends is beautiful according to western ethnocentric standards. And I love her. I see what she gets away with, and I see how people use her. Without her looks ... I love her but so many of her friends would dissapear
    anigif_enhanced-buzz-2027-1364839025-19.gif
  • BlackAngelPlayahBlackAngelPlayah Posts: 1,419Registered Users
    People say I'm pretty. But I see a lot of flaws.

    We see our flaws magnified.

    So how ever you see yourself it's not accurate.

    From my experience, these who think they are GORGEOUS are ok at best. You have 2 camps. The I'm perfect sect that are just "ok" at best. And the I SUCK sect who actually look pretty good.

    Personally I think I'm not terrible, but I'm FAR from beautiful. I'm just ok. In a pinch, I'll do. :)
    :afro:FroZen:afro:
  • SayoonSayoon Posts: 432Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

    This is so true , n to add up abusing the beauty to get what u want will leave u feeling empty most of the time even when u get everything !
  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

    I beg to differ. I have never used looks to get anything accomplished or to get my way. If anything, I always dress down and try to draw attention away from my looks

    Even if you didn't use it intentionally, you probably have benefitted from gender beauty privilege. It's like white privilege...It's always there.
  • sKorpio1190sKorpio1190 Posts: 1,862Registered Users
    It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

    I beg to differ. I have never used looks to get anything accomplished or to get my way. If anything, I always dress down and try to draw attention away from my looks

    Even if you didn't use it intentionally, you probably have benefitted from gender beauty privilege. It's like white privilege...It's always there.

    Sorry, I still disagree.
    Medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity :shock:
  • NelekeNeleke Posts: 456Registered Users
    riiight... sKorpio: for a job interview: weren't you in front of your clothes wondering what you were going to wear for the interview, making sure you hair was "ok"?

    Even that is using your beauty... if you go for a job interview you always put a little effort in it...

    You probably just don't admit to yourself that you have used your beauty before, even though not intentionally as RCW says

    Everybody uses their beauty, there's only the difference in people who do it on purpose and who exaggerate, and people who don't do it intentionally but just want to look "decent" for the job interview/hot date/presentation/family reunion/...
    2c: fine texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity, normal-high density
    CG since March 8th 2013
    Low Poo: Rainforest Radiance shampoo
    Conditioner: Yes to Cucumbers
    Styler: BRHG, Garnier Fructis Gel
    PT: Gliss Kur Repair & Volume

    iherb.com: get a 5$ discount on orders under 40$ or a 10$ discount on orders over 40$ when you order for your first order by using the following discount code: CFH441
  • YoshimiYoshimi Posts: 237Registered Users
    I don't see why a woman born with beauty shouldnt use it. If someone is born with intelligence, charm, strength or athletic ability they use it, so why not beauty.

    If a woman has beauty as her only asset, and someone is willing to reward her for that, is that reward really less deserved than the man who is rewarded for being able to throw a ball far. They both have to work at making the most of the attribute they were born with.

    Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using CurlTalk App
    2C, Medium thickness, Low posity
    Recovering from a year of keratin and bleach with CG

    Routine

    Low Poo, Condition, Leave in, Curl cream, Supersoak, Gel, Diffuse on high heat, with minimal lift to encourage waves and reduce frizz, Dry on cool with nozzle down to smooth hair and finish drying,Shine Serum

    Weekly gelatin protien treatments.
  • sKorpio1190sKorpio1190 Posts: 1,862Registered Users
    Neleke wrote: »
    riiight... sKorpio: for a job interview: weren't you in front of your clothes wondering what you were going to wear for the interview, making sure you hair was "ok"?

    Even that is using your beauty... if you go for a job interview you always put a little effort in it...

    You probably just don't admit to yourself that you have used your beauty before, even though not intentionally as RCW says

    Everybody uses their beauty, there's only the difference in people who do it on purpose and who exaggerate, and people who don't do it intentionally but just want to look "decent" for the job interview/hot date/presentation/family reunion/...

    Actually, I looked for clothes considered appropriate for an interview, and something that fit. No, I didn't stand there saying "hmmmm what makes me look good? What looks flattering on me? What makes me look pretty?" And I just wash my hair and go out, for any occasion. So Neleke, don't presume to know what I do or have done when you've never even met me ok? Thanks.
    Medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity :shock:
  • sheilacurlsheilacurl Posts: 1,240Registered Users
    From what I've learned in life so far is that everyone is judgmental to some degree. Just be who you are and try to not care so much about what people think. I have pimples and freckles and wrinkles, (oh my). Should I be miserable because of that?

    The more critical you are of everyone else, the more critical you are of yourself.

    Yes, I'm tired of all of the advertising telling me how I should look. I can't even go on pinterest to look at spring and summer 2013 outfits without seeing these really cute outfits, but it looks like women who wear them might weigh 100 pounds. In the back of my mind, I hear myself saying, "Oh, if I only lost 10-20 pounds, I could look as good as her in that outfit." It's not realistic!

    My husband and my mom think I'm beautiful. If you don't, then that's ok with me too, lol!

    Sorry if that was all over the place!
    Upper Michigan Dews
    3a ~ Fine ~ High Porosity ~ Normal Density

    NoPoo: JC Cleansing Cream
    Rinse Outs: SS:PRT, CJ Repair Me, CJ Argan
    Detangler: KCKT
    Leave-in: CJ Repair me
    Stylers: UFDCM, BRHG
    Refreshers: Batiste (dry shampoo) on the roots & UFDCM everywhere else

    iHerb Discount Code: SAF007

  • sKorpio1190sKorpio1190 Posts: 1,862Registered Users
    sheilacurl wrote: »
    From what I've learned in life so far is that everyone is judgmental to some degree. Just be who you are and try to not care so much about what people think. I have pimples and freckles and wrinkles, (oh my). Should I be miserable because of that?

    The more critical you are of everyone else, the more critical you are of yourself.

    Yes, I'm tired of all of the advertising telling me how I should look. I can't even go on pinterest to look at spring and summer 2013 outfits without seeing these really cute outfits, but it looks like women who wear them might weigh 100 pounds. In the back of my mind, I hear myself saying, "Oh, if I only lost 10-20 pounds, I could look as good as her in that outfit." It's not realistic!

    My husband and my mom think I'm beautiful. If you don't, then that's ok with me too, lol!

    Sorry if that was all over the place!

    I just read a book yesterday called "Two Whole Cakes" by Lesley Kinzel. I think you would really like it :)
    Medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity :shock:
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    It is frustrating, but I think we have to acknowledge that women still seem to garner the majority of their "power" and influence through their looks. I see it in my daughter. She's 15 and just starting to feel the power of her young beauty over men. It is POWERFUL stuff. And it can go to one's head. I think we're all guilty of using (and sometimes abusing) that power as women. I don't know the answer or cure for this problem.

    I beg to differ. I have never used looks to get anything accomplished or to get my way. If anything, I always dress down and try to draw attention away from my looks

    Even if you didn't use it intentionally, you probably have benefitted from gender beauty privilege. It's like white privilege...It's always there.


    I don't think it's a privilege in the same way white privilege is, though. For one thing, it attaches to the inferior gender, and is generally used in a way that actually devalues the person even though in the short-term it may seem like getting superficial male attention is a "privilege." Yes, certain types of looks can be more successful in gaining romantic relationships and the perks that come with them, and they may even draw enough attention to get someone through the door to a job interview or offer, but not all women will get this privilege all the time and those of certain races, or ages, or weights, or body types, will not get it to the same extent as others, and even the ones who get it will eventually age or get pregnant or gain weight or whatever so that they lose the privilege.

    Also, looks alone are unlikely to keep or advance you in a significant job - they enhance other skills and qualifications, or are of use only in jobs that don't really need qualifications. And women who take advantage of their looks, or are perceived to be doing so, are subject to negative treatment. And the constant competition about looks is really divisive amongst women and creates a lot of insecurity since women are never sure if they are "pretty enough", even if others think so. So I don't think we can call it a privilege. It's more like the perception some have that people of colour have an advantage in hiring because of affirmative action - any tiny, temporary advantage there may be is more than set off by all the negatives and the remaining discrimination. And of course, a woman of colour who may be perceived as pretty still has to deal with all the racial BS.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


    .png


    534Pm5.png





  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users
    Yoshimi wrote: »
    I don't see why a woman born with beauty shouldnt use it. If someone is born with intelligence, charm, strength or athletic ability they use it, so why not beauty.

    If a woman has beauty as her only asset, and someone is willing to reward her for that, is that reward really less deserved than the man who is rewarded for being able to throw a ball far. They both have to work at making the most of the attribute they were born with.

    Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using CurlTalk App

    Along with others, you make some interesting points. All things can have a catch 22. If you asked women if the were smart enough, you would many middle of the road answers. Some may say no thanks to learning disabilities. Educated enough? Not everyone can afford that, or has had the opportunity. Education can be used to put or hold others down just as much (if not more) as physical appearance. It's simply more acceptable to talk about. Are you loved enough? Content enough? Giving enough? If so, things of this nature will shine through and add to ones physical appearance.

    I have known women who used and abused their physical beauty/power. Never worked, lived alone in high dollar apartments while several different men paid the bills, bought their food, bought their clothes, etc. This type of using behavior will eventually catch up to the person. It really has more to do with lacking decency toward others, and that had everything to do with how they were raised (and in several cases of ppl I know- not raised at all/left to fend for themselves at an early age). I have known many more who are knock outs, and have personalities/life skills to match, who could not even begin to do that. Others might do it on a much smaller scale.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Neleke wrote: »
    riiight... sKorpio: for a job interview: weren't you in front of your clothes wondering what you were going to wear for the interview, making sure you hair was "ok"?

    Even that is using your beauty... if you go for a job interview you always put a little effort in it...

    You probably just don't admit to yourself that you have used your beauty before, even though not intentionally as RCW says

    Everybody uses their beauty, there's only the difference in people who do it on purpose and who exaggerate, and people who don't do it intentionally but just want to look "decent" for the job interview/hot date/presentation/family reunion/...

    Actually, I looked for clothes considered appropriate for an interview, and something that fit. No, I didn't stand there saying "hmmmm what makes me look good? What looks flattering on me? What makes me look pretty?" And I just wash my hair and go out, for any occasion. So Neleke, don't presume to know what I do or have done when you've never even met me ok? Thanks.

    I don't think trying to look a certain way for an interview is necessarily a conscious effort to use your "beauty." Dressing for interviews is about trying to conform to the cultural norm of that industry/workplace to convey that you would fit in and understand the expectations of that place. If you are interviewing somewhere conservative, you want to wear a business suit, panty hose, have sleeker-looking hair, etc. whereas if you are interviewing somewhere creative, you want to wear a funky outfit of some kind, can do big hair, etc. In a conservative workplace, you don't want to stand out too much whereas in a creative one, you can. This is a separate type of issue than the issue of "beauty."

    However, the notion of "beauty" is inherently built in to the different professional standards of dress for men than women. For example, male lawyers wear a suit of pants, tie and dress shirt and flat dress shoes. Their bodies are completely covered. Their weight doesn't really matter - they just buy the pant size that fits. It's a uniform look that looks much the same on everyone. For me as a woman however, I have the choice of a pant suit or a skirt suit, with the skirt suit still being considered the most formal. With the skirt suit, I wear pantyhose. My legs show and can be viewed. I also am expected to wear dress shoes, generally with heels, which elevate the body and create a certain walk that emphasizes the hips. Even if I wear pants, they're generally tailored around the hips and butt in a way that displays the female shape. Under the suit, there are different options for tops, but generally, breast shape and size will be visible and can be emphasized if desired. Then there are expectations of makeup, hair, nails etc. Most men have short, simple hair styles but a woman can still make a statement with her hair, or be expected to "control" her hair depending on hair type. So trying to "look good" for an interview or work for a man just means donning a uniform, while trying to "look good" for a woman inherently means doing things that may display or exploit "beautiful" traits if she has them, and trying to maximize them. So whether or not the woman is trying to do it, if she has certain traits and is dressed in business clothing, she will be perceived to be displaying her looks because that's what the cultural norms do for her. And if she lacks those traits, she will likely be judged in a way that a man lacking them won't.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


    .png


    534Pm5.png





  • YoshimiYoshimi Posts: 237Registered Users
    Fifi.G wrote: »

    I have known women who used and abused their physical beauty/power. Never worked, lived alone in high dollar apartments while several different men paid the bills, bought their food, bought their clothes, etc. This type of using behavior will eventually catch up to the person. It really has more to do with lacking decency toward others, and that had everything to do with how they were raised (and in several cases of ppl I know- not raised at all/left to fend for themselves at an early age). I have known many more who are knock outs, and have personalities/life skills to match, who could not even begin to do that. Others might do it on a much smaller scale.

    I find this interesting. Here in vista Rica prostitution is legal, and one result of this is that we end up with a lot of old American men marrying beautiful locals in their 20s. No one is under the illusion that this is anything other than a transactional relationship, bit for the women involved they can access a life they would nit otherwise have been able to dream of. I don't think that the lacking of decency applies if there is awareness from both parties of what is happening


    Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using CurlTalk App
    2C, Medium thickness, Low posity
    Recovering from a year of keratin and bleach with CG

    Routine

    Low Poo, Condition, Leave in, Curl cream, Supersoak, Gel, Diffuse on high heat, with minimal lift to encourage waves and reduce frizz, Dry on cool with nozzle down to smooth hair and finish drying,Shine Serum

    Weekly gelatin protien treatments.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users
    murrrcat wrote: »
    I think everyone is pretty in their own way. Everyone looks different so there's no way to say who's pretty. It's someone's opinion and my opinion, is that I've never seen an ugly woman. I honestly have not seen a woman who I would be like "she's ugly" or she's not pretty, because who says. I don't judge...but when I do judge, they're males.

    Misandry for life.

    This has always been one of my favorite things about (some) women. I love the ability that women have to look at another woman and say, "She is so pretty" and mean it. It doesn't always have everything to do with the woman's physical features. It might be other things coming through or one thing like a smile that lights up the world and makes you feel happy in return.

    Men rarely do that. You will hear a few that say, he's a good looking guy.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users
    Yoshimi wrote: »
    Fifi.G wrote: »

    I have known women who used and abused their physical beauty/power. Never worked, lived alone in high dollar apartments while several different men paid the bills, bought their food, bought their clothes, etc. This type of using behavior will eventually catch up to the person. It really has more to do with lacking decency toward others, and that had everything to do with how they were raised (and in several cases of ppl I know- not raised at all/left to fend for themselves at an early age). I have known many more who are knock outs, and have personalities/life skills to match, who could not even begin to do that. Others might do it on a much smaller scale.

    I find this interesting. Here in vista Rica prostitution is legal, and one result of this is that we end up with a lot of old American men marrying beautiful locals in their 20s. No one is under the illusion that this is anything other than a transactional relationship, bit for the women involved they can access a life they would nit otherwise have been able to dream of. I don't think that the lacking of decency applies if there is awareness from both parties of what is happening


    Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using CurlTalk App

    Well, in the cases I was talking about, it was not/is not in the open. The men involved had no idea about the others, and were under the impression that they were the only one. Some were away in the military and sending almost every dollar they earned.

    ETA: Very long and messed up story about a very close former friend of mine. She had a horrific childhood (she did) and had been on her own since 13. Lived with different people all through school. Always had upwards of 3 men supporting her, and became an impossible user to be around. She used her looks, or her life story to get more, and more, and more and eventually started stealing things from people who let her in, if they would not give her what she asked for.

    If the cards are on the table, it does become a different situation.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • YoshimiYoshimi Posts: 237Registered Users
    Yeah then its more like fraud, and as bad as any other way of getting something in an underhand way, but again is that really about the value of pretty, or more about the fact that some people will use whatever they have to cheat others?

    Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using CurlTalk App
    2C, Medium thickness, Low posity
    Recovering from a year of keratin and bleach with CG

    Routine

    Low Poo, Condition, Leave in, Curl cream, Supersoak, Gel, Diffuse on high heat, with minimal lift to encourage waves and reduce frizz, Dry on cool with nozzle down to smooth hair and finish drying,Shine Serum

    Weekly gelatin protien treatments.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users
    Yoshimi wrote: »
    Yeah then its more like fraud, and as bad as any other way of getting something in an underhand way, but again is that really about the value of pretty, or more about the fact that some people will use whatever they have to cheat others?

    Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using CurlTalk App

    Basically, yes.

    Some of the guys were great people, who were head over heels in love with her. She used that. Others who were wealthy often mistreated or abused her. She allowed it for the money. She was an incredibly beautiful woman who was very aware of her beauty and power, had no problems using it, but also had incredibly low self esteem.

    Catch 22.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • theliothelio Posts: 5,374Registered Users
    I know I have always valued my smarts and personality over my looks. i always felt my brainz would get me further in life. beauty fades stoopid is forever.
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users
    thelio wrote: »
    I know I have always valued my smarts and personality over my looks. i always felt my brainz would get me further in life. beauty fades stoopid is forever.

    Common sense and a kind heart for me. That's what I value most in anyone.

    *And a good sense of humor. The ability to laugh can make anyone even more attractive.
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    There is plenty of documented evidence that society bestows a higher status on attractive women than on unattractive and rewards attractive women w/ plenty of benefits. So yes, it kind of does matter.

    The two corollaries tho are:

    1) in absolute terms, men still weild a lot more societal power over women, despite the status that female beauty might confer.

    2) beauty is a rather mutable characteristic; with make up, grooming, dental work, diet/exercise, surgery, etc. most women can improve their looks A LOT...if it's a high enough priority to them.

  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,059 Administrator
    But pretty enough for what? :dontknow: What is the goal to be achieved by a person's level of prettiness?
  • JosephineJosephine Posts: 14,175Registered Users
    Fifi.G wrote: »

    ETA: Very long and messed up story about a very close former friend of mine. She had a horrific childhood (she did) and had been on her own since 13. Lived with different people all through school. Always had upwards of 3 men supporting her, and became an impossible user to be around. She used her looks, or her life story to get more, and more, and more and eventually started stealing things from people who let her in, if they would not give her what she asked for.

    If the cards are on the table, it does become a different situation.

    Oh boy this sounds just like my friend who i had to break up with. I'm still friends with her but on a distant level. I'll meet up with her. She used to basically live at my place on weekends for a while and was a party friend. But she was just too much. The stealing from friends and even me and manipulating situations with me finally ticked me off.
«1