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Miserable hair day and need recs. Please.

MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
For my 3A/3B coarse hair, low porosity. Anything and everything will be considered as possibilities.
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Comments

  • curleeangelcurleeangel Posts: 53Registered Users
    Where do you live? Is it humid, dry? My hair is coarse and low porosity and I have been LOVING Shea moisture smoothie.

    Sent from my MB860 using CurlTalk App
    2b/c low porosity, coarse, high density and protein sensitive.
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Curlangel: I cannot tell you the number of times I have looked at that product. I live in Wisconsin, so: some day are cold and dry; some days are cold and moist; (winter)- some days are warm and dry, and some days are warm and humid. Its a real mess! Moreover, Tiffany, the curl whisperer, says coarse, low porousity hair should use products which are emollient; so, that would be WHAT? what conditioners? what styling products?! Help me I am stumped!
  • Ruth MarieRuth Marie Posts: 72Registered Users
    I'm in WI too and my hair seemed dry today. Just kind of "off." I chalked it up to my products, but it may have been the weather. At any rate, my properties are different from yours. Mix of 2s and 3a, med-fine, medium density. If you're struggling with dryness however, I'd recommend Yes to Carrots conditioner. Very moisturizing!
    I'm a Curly Violinist living in the Frozen Tundra.
    Hair Growth Goals:
    SL:
    APL:
    BSL:
    WL:
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Ruth Marie: I have Yes to Cucumbers shampoo, and Yes to Tomatoes conditioner. Also GVP conditioner. Today I used a new gel. BIG mistake. I am going back to GVP.
  • CurlyIndianGirlCurlyIndianGirl Posts: 161Registered Users
    Myra, I would definitely suggest stick to one product before trying a new one, because there is so many things in effect like the outside environment. Even though we look up forecast, it just doesn't work right. I live in MN, dry air like WI. I am low porosity 2c/3a coarse hair. My fav combo is Vo5 Kiwi lime -cowash & detangle/rinseout. GVP leavein followed by gel. Diffuse pixie method. Works every time.

    give a product about a week or so, might be easier that way.
    3a with some 2a-2c, Medium/Low Porosity
    Co-wash:deva no-poo/Vo5 kiwi
    Detangle:Suave
    Leave-in:Shea Moisture/GVP conditioning Balm/AOHSR

    Since long hair- I finger twist in big chunks, which helps till 5th day hair:farao:
    Gel:LA sports
    Plop: Old T-shirt for 15 minutes ,diffuse
  • CurlyIndianGirlCurlyIndianGirl Posts: 161Registered Users
    Also another thing ,since we are low porosity once our hair gets soaking wet it might not be able to absorb as much product as high or medium porosity. so apply a considerable amount of GVP, do the plop then go back and apply gel(do it carefully if possible smooth down instead of scrunching coz it scrunch might break up curls.) Low porosity doesnt have the capacity to absorb multiple products at a time, so layering is of no use in our hair!

    so sorry you are going through this, hope you find a Hg product/routine soon!!
    3a with some 2a-2c, Medium/Low Porosity
    Co-wash:deva no-poo/Vo5 kiwi
    Detangle:Suave
    Leave-in:Shea Moisture/GVP conditioning Balm/AOHSR

    Since long hair- I finger twist in big chunks, which helps till 5th day hair:farao:
    Gel:LA sports
    Plop: Old T-shirt for 15 minutes ,diffuse
  • KorkscrewKorkscrew Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Myrna, sorry to hear you're having problems :(

    An emollient is what a lot of people hear call a "sealer" - something with a (generally) fatty consistency, that coats hair shafts such that moisture is sealed in. Oils (like coconut or castor) and "butters" like avocado and shea, fall under this category. With your hair, you'd probably have to use these items sparingly.

    Here's a list of emollient esters contained in hair products.

    Sounds like your gel might have jacked you high, but, when was the last time you used a sulfate shampoo? If you're suffering from product buildup, an actual shampoo would be good (w/something sulfate-based and/or something containing cocoamidopropyl betaine). Another possible culprit is too much or not enough protein in your products. There are "symptoms" that will point to a protein issue. Yet another possibility is over-conditioned hair (w/other symptoms for that). Maybe you could describe the exact nature of your issue.
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Korkscrew: I dont even know how to describe my issue. My hair was limp today. I made the mistake og getting a new gel yesterday at CVS (that LA Looks one with Avocado. BIG mistake, I am taking it back for a refund). And I used Deva foam over it. This winter I got good results - relatively speaking - from a SM shampoo, GVP conditioner, Biotera Gel and Deva Foam. But then my hair just started looking like it was "slumping". Last week I shampooed with Yes to Cucumbers (coco betaine) and my hair sprang to life. I did the same thing the next day and my hair sucked. I dont know if it need protein, that is one problem. Another is whether or not it will tolerate glycerin, or those emollients to which you refer. You'd think I would have this down after all this time, but I dont feel I have a clue and part of it is that I use both mousse and gel. It may be that I need a haircut - it has not been cut in months and months, except for a snip here and there. Last time I was at the salon - 4 weeks ago for my roots - my stylist commented that the condition of my hair seemed really good. That was with the routine I just described. But, that is a winter routine and the weather is changing...oh I am so messed up with all this....:banghead::banghead:
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    CurlyIndianGirl: "Low porosity doesnt have the capacity to absorb multiple products at a time, so layering is of no use in our hair!"

    Is this so? I had not thought of that at all but it makes sense. But, that means I have to find ONE product that works for me!! But, that sure does make sense!
  • CurlyIndianGirlCurlyIndianGirl Posts: 161Registered Users
    yup I learnt it the hard way though, another reason why I say stick to one product at a time. try just a leave-in +(gel or mousse). make sure you give ur hair sometime between products. else its just going to sit on top of your hair - reason for buildsups

    Do let us know ur next experiment- would love to hear from you, since we have same hair properties, I can learn from you
    3a with some 2a-2c, Medium/Low Porosity
    Co-wash:deva no-poo/Vo5 kiwi
    Detangle:Suave
    Leave-in:Shea Moisture/GVP conditioning Balm/AOHSR

    Since long hair- I finger twist in big chunks, which helps till 5th day hair:farao:
    Gel:LA sports
    Plop: Old T-shirt for 15 minutes ,diffuse
  • JLeighsJLeighs Posts: 904Registered Users
    When is the last time you used a clarifying shampoo? If it has been awhile, I would start there.
    2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users
    Maybe try your LI, plop, and then your mousse? Or if that breaks up the curls, maybe a spray gel?

    I'm wondering if the SM smoothie would be good AS your LI.
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • anonymous_133347anonymous_133347 Posts: 1,426Registered Users
    I use the smoothie as a leave in often. It works great for me and has the added benefit of curl enhancement. I used it as my leave in today actually. I think it does work well for coarse hair in general so long as you aren't sensitive to silk protein. Apparently I'm not.

    Myrna, since you wash your hair every day then tomorrow is just something to look forward to. I'd try CurlyIndianGirl's suggestion of just a leave in then gel. That's make sense to me. Hell I'm high porosity and that's what I do because I don't like to complicate things.
    3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

    CG since Nov. 2012

    Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
    Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
    Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
    Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

    * = HG

  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Thank you everyone for your suggestions. This is such a great community, full of lovely curlies who are OCD about our hair:happy7: I AM taking CurlyIndianGirls suggestion and using ONE product. Today I chose Curl Keeper. I used GVP as my RO and LI. I think adding something else for my LI complicates it because then, again, if it works I dont know why or if it doesnt, I dont know why. A complication is that I will be in Milwaukee today, and their "dew" may be different because of the lake effect (on Lake Michigan).
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Dusa, if I remember correctly, you dont use a gel or other on your hair...do you just use the smoothie, then? and how much? I would love to try this product but it keeps scaring me...:confused:
  • CurlyIndianGirlCurlyIndianGirl Posts: 161Registered Users
    SM smoothie dint work for me, even the smallest amount made my hair stiff straw like with halo frizz, may be silk protein is something my hair doesn't like?
    3a with some 2a-2c, Medium/Low Porosity
    Co-wash:deva no-poo/Vo5 kiwi
    Detangle:Suave
    Leave-in:Shea Moisture/GVP conditioning Balm/AOHSR

    Since long hair- I finger twist in big chunks, which helps till 5th day hair:farao:
    Gel:LA sports
    Plop: Old T-shirt for 15 minutes ,diffuse
  • HootenannyHootenanny Posts: 300Registered Users
    I'm coarse & low-po, and my hair also disliked the smoothie. Even when I tried using the most minute amounts, it just coated my hair and weighed it down.
    :cat: Medium/coarse, low porosity, dense, mix of 3s :cat:
    CG (again) since Nov. 2012

    Cleanse: SM Moisture Retention, Elucence MBC, KC Come Clean
    Condish: Giovanni DL, Cure Care, Ion Treatment, GVP Balm, AOHR
    Protein: AOGPB, CNPF, SSRPT
    Stylers: KCCC, SM Souffle, AOMM, SS CEJ, JCRR, JCCC

    :cat: Trying out steaming! :cat:
  • anonymous_133347anonymous_133347 Posts: 1,426Registered Users
    Myrna wrote: »
    Dusa, if I remember correctly, you dont use a gel or other on your hair...do you just use the smoothie, then? and how much? I would love to try this product but it keeps scaring me...:confused:

    Yes well my hair seems to reject most gels because of their drying ingredients. And personally I hate crunch and the wet look so I just don't do well with them in general. So my main finishing products right now are KCCC and FSG which are gellies and CJPP which is a soft hold, pleasantly light gel. I did do a day with just the smoothie and I got very pretty 2C hair so it doesn't have enough hold on its own. I use about two quarters' worth as a leave in on soaking wet hair. Sounds like a lot but my hair is very porous and since it's more creamy it's harder to distribute than say KCKT as a leave in. If the other girls who are low porosity say it isn't working for them though I guess I'd tread carefully. I think it's my high porosity that just plain soaks the product up. Or you know what? Why don't you go buy it from Target or Walgreens and just try it? If it doesn't work, then bring it right back into the store. But at least you'd know. I know I get so curious I can't resist a lot of the time.
    3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

    CG since Nov. 2012

    Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
    Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
    Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
    Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

    * = HG

  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Well I was desperate, so I decided to take your advise, CurlyIndianGirl and yours, Dusa. I used ONE styling product. Poo'd with Coconut hibiscus, conditioned with GVP. My styling product of choice today was Curl Keeper. I am happy to report that my hair turned out really nice, felt soft and healthy.. by the end of the day, though I have some wilting and less curl formation, which is why I think I started using more than one product in the first place. Evidently I may need more hold than CK, or maybe more Ck, I tend to be conservative with gels. Tomorrow I will try Biotera. Still thinking about the smoothie. I know I can return it; already have one product to return that was terrible on my hair (yesterday). Comments appreciated.
  • Jas76Jas76 Posts: 2,283Registered Users
    I use HESMU spray gel sometimes after plopping and before I diffuse or air dry, even. It doesn't make me crunchy, but then again I'm high porous, so maybe that plays in.

    I also use GF flexible hold hairspray on occasion. Usually just if I need extra humidity control that day, or if my hair feels too soft after diffusing or SOTC. When that happens I know my curls will droop by the end of the day - but again I'm high porous, so that causes drooping in higher dews. Not sealing causes me drooping, too, for the opposite reason - my porosity causes me to lose moisture. Sigh. So particular.
    2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

    Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
    clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
    Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
    RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
    LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
    Seal - MO or Jojoba
    DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
    PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
    Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
    Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I like a little crunch, because I know it will hold my hair. However, I may have to give that up, as the products that give crunch may be the ones that are the problem. I am trying one gel at a time for now. Today is Biotera. Tomorrow may be LALSG, as that is what CurlyIndianGirl uses as her one product. However, I have to say that when I removed the clips from my hair yesterday after using CK, my hair looked like it had been professionally styled. But, soft and somewhat wilted by the end of the day. Still good though. Maybe we dont get everything we want.
  • misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
    Hello my coarse low-po 3b buddy. I don't have any recs for you... yet! But I am very determined to find some HGs. Just wanted to stop in and say hello and wish you luck. Hello! Good luck! ;) I'm enjoying reading about your experiences and the great advice from others. Keep us posted on how it's going! :thumright:
    CG since 3/1/13
    3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
    Very high density, waist length

    Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
    RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
    Sealer: apricot oil
    Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
    Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

    Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Ok, and Hi, Misbehave. Today I used Biotera gel and my hair did not look as good as it did yesterday with CK. Tomorrow I am using CK again. I was going to use LALSG, but I decided to use CK again.
  • CurlyIndianGirlCurlyIndianGirl Posts: 161Registered Users
    Myrna, its strange that CK is working good for me also these days. I use very light leave-in, followed by CK, plop and finish with gel works great for my root curls without weighting them down. I am the person, who reported a while back that CK was just greasy on my head. Good Luck!
    3a with some 2a-2c, Medium/Low Porosity
    Co-wash:deva no-poo/Vo5 kiwi
    Detangle:Suave
    Leave-in:Shea Moisture/GVP conditioning Balm/AOHSR

    Since long hair- I finger twist in big chunks, which helps till 5th day hair:farao:
    Gel:LA sports
    Plop: Old T-shirt for 15 minutes ,diffuse
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Hmm, I dont find it greasy at all, it just does not seem to hold my hair "tight" enough, through the day, but if you watch the CK tutorial on youtube, and others using it, they really load it on. I use a bout a nickel size on 3 sections of my hair; I rake it through, then scrunch. I too only use the smallest bit of my RO as a leave in (GVP for now); are you saying you use a gel in addition to CK? I am using it alone. And, if it continues to work, even though it is expensive, I dont mind having one expensive product that works. We can spend a lot more on products that dont work.
  • elizardelizard Posts: 284Registered Users
    Myrna, I wonder if what you described could be overconditioning. My hair is relatively low porosity and I get overconditioned at the drop of a dime. I could never use the GVP as a leave-in. However, my hair is not coarse.
    2b/c wavy modified CG since July 2012
    medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity
    hair likes protein, doesn't like oils, easily OC'd

    low poo: JCHCC, CJGCS
    RO/co-wash/LI: YTCarrots, DB Pumpkin Seed
    stylers: a bunch of stylers that are all pretty much the same (KCCC, UFDCM, CRCM, CKCJ) or ArcAngel if I need more hold
    DT/PT: CJRM, CNPF
  • CurlyIndianGirlCurlyIndianGirl Posts: 161Registered Users
    Coarse low porosity hair has the possibility of over conditioning too, I have experienced it. I thought my hair needed the most was moisture and kept loading with rich conditioner and realized at one point that my hair was over conditioned. I did a 5 minute protein treatment and did a sulphate wash, bouncy curls again. Its a mystery!!

    Infact today morning I thought my hair was limp and did a sulphate wash and bouncy curls again.

    Myrna I do a gel on top of CK. LA sports works for me. although, I plop after CK and give my hair a break give it some 10-20 minutes then gel. Then diffuse
    3a with some 2a-2c, Medium/Low Porosity
    Co-wash:deva no-poo/Vo5 kiwi
    Detangle:Suave
    Leave-in:Shea Moisture/GVP conditioning Balm/AOHSR

    Since long hair- I finger twist in big chunks, which helps till 5th day hair:farao:
    Gel:LA sports
    Plop: Old T-shirt for 15 minutes ,diffuse
  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Over-conditioning - hmm, quite possible. Sometimes I get great results from a light conditioner, like Yes to Tomatoes. And last week I shampood with a coco betaine and got great results. So confusing! So, should I alternate my conditioners? CurlyIndianGirl, I clip up my hair for volume, and so if I did not apply a gel roght over CK, or mix them together (did you ever try that?) my hair would be about 25% dry and I would not be able to do a thing with it at that point. I dont apply products to soaking wet hair, but it is blotted, and I think if I did apply to soaking wet hair, nothing would absorb.
  • WurlyLoxWurlyLox Posts: 4,858Registered Users
    I'd say based on it doing well after that first shampoo and all the things you're using that you probably are at least somewhat over conditioned.

    I'm not very coarse anymore, but I am low porosity, and I can't use much leave-in at all and can't use CK at all. It's not actually greasy with it, but it looks it, and it weighs it down, regardless of the amount used - especially without gel. I just don't like the stuff, personally.

    And, BTW, my hair hates Biotera gel and curl cream, but it likes LALSG, the Giovanni one in my siggie, or BRHG. It, too, hated that LA Looks curly hair one with the avocodo oil that you took back.

    I have to use some gel no matter what else I do, or it's usually going to eventually wilt. The only exception to that is that sometimes KCCC is itself enough, but I don't use a great deal or it weighs me down and looks dirty. I nearly always use a touch of it part way thru diffusing a la the Smastering method, no matter what other product(s) I first use.

    I do always apply product to soaking wet hair. My hair does much worse if I don't. And though it seems counterintuitive, I then Super Soak (with a spray bottle, not at the sink) then the Smasters method, though not necessarily with her same products, except KCCC.

    Maybe something here will help. The products/methods in my siggie are as close to HG's as I've ever gotten.
    2C/3A/3B - modified CG - fairly fine now, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

    Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite,CJ Pattern Pusha,, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

    HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

    www.fotki.com/auntnett
  • CurlyIndianGirlCurlyIndianGirl Posts: 161Registered Users
    Myrna wrote: »
    Over-conditioning - hmm, quite possible. Sometimes I get great results from a light conditioner, like Yes to Tomatoes. And last week I shampood with a coco betaine and got great results. So confusing! So, should I alternate my conditioners? CurlyIndianGirl, I clip up my hair for volume, and so if I did not apply a gel roght over CK, or mix them together (did you ever try that?) my hair would be about 25% dry and I would not be able to do a thing with it at that point. I dont apply products to soaking wet hair, but it is blotted, and I think if I did apply to soaking wet hair, nothing would absorb.

    yes, LP hair doesnt do well with products on soaking wet hair. For me I keep CK and gel separated. thats the main reason I do finger twirling.

    our hair is coarse, so If we do smoothing product then scrunching(which I need for my long curls) its all wonky frizz, its hard to manipulate coarse hair- atleast thats my understanding.

    So for me if I take a big chuck and twirl it, curls form nicely then if I do scrunch, it clumps good without those wonky frizz.

    Also, if in case we apply products to soaking wet hair, we could get good clumps by just smoothing and scrunching, but thats ruled out for us. I think Coarse Hair+Low porosity+ 3a for me makes it even difficult to follow just regular smooking/scrunching:)

    In the end for me atleast I think it more about the technique than the product itself
    If at all any of this makes sense.
    3a with some 2a-2c, Medium/Low Porosity
    Co-wash:deva no-poo/Vo5 kiwi
    Detangle:Suave
    Leave-in:Shea Moisture/GVP conditioning Balm/AOHSR

    Since long hair- I finger twist in big chunks, which helps till 5th day hair:farao:
    Gel:LA sports
    Plop: Old T-shirt for 15 minutes ,diffuse
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