Spinoff: Victim Impact Statements in court

spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
So how do you feel about the "victim impact statements" victims and the families of the murdered victims read in court?

Here is an example from yesterday's sentencing hearing of TJ Lane, the Chardon, OH school killer.

A parade of people address the court and say things like the convicted is a piece of trash, a piece of dog****, he deserves to die, they hope he is raped and tortured while he serves his prison sentence, that he is undeserving of forgiveness and that he should never have been born. And of course, they say how much they miss their beloved victim, how deeply the death of the victim has affected them and how they will mis out on so many experiences they had planned to share w/ the victim.

Then the convicted usually responds and says he regrets his behavior and asks for the court's mercy. (But in the above case, he flipped them the bird and said he masturbates to the memory of the killing.)

Is this part of the judicial process a good and worthwhile one?

Comments

  • claudine19claudine19 Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    spider, you may not be aware of this, but I was one of those asked to give an Impact Statement in the case you reference.

    This is a very, very difficult time for all of us involved in the case, and since your interest is presumably general and not personal, would you please consider dropping this thread? It is personally painful to me, and I would be grateful for your sensitivity at this time.

    Thank you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dogs and nature abhor a vacuum.
    http://geaugadoggy.wordpress.com
  • murrrcatmurrrcat Posts: 9,596Registered Users
    ^ sorry claudine. :pale:
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  • claudine19claudine19 Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    Thanks, murr.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dogs and nature abhor a vacuum.
    http://geaugadoggy.wordpress.com
  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,059 Administrator
    This is a very horrible situation and the fact that it personally affects one our members makes it even worse. The pain involved is immeasurable. Given these circumstances, please respect her request not to continue with this thread.
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    I didn't know you were involved in this, claudine. Sorry for your loss.

    Sure, lock the thread if that is the board policy. It was just random conversation to me.

  • claudine19claudine19 Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

    Ordinarily I find many legal discussions interesting, but we're all really struggling again after yesterday.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dogs and nature abhor a vacuum.
    http://geaugadoggy.wordpress.com
  • LoloDSMLoloDSM Posts: 3,778Registered Users
    I'm sorry, Claudine.
    Loose botticelli curls and waves
    No silicones/no sulfates since March 2008
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    I am really and truly sorry, claudine, and I sincerely mean that.


    BUT... a question for the guides. Is it really not possible to discuss a general topic in the news because it is difficult for particular individuals? I know many of us have been personally touched by tragedies and they were still discussed on the board ie. I lost someone in the Sandy Hook shooting but it was still discussed on here, and I don't feel it would be fair to ask that nobody discuss something that touches so many people because one of us has a personal connection, however painful. There is always the option not to go in a particular thread if the subject matter is too difficult - hasn't that always been the board policy? Why change it now?

    If we can't discuss that particular incident, can't we at least discuss the general topic of victim impact statements and vengeance, which I think is an interesting one?

    I say this with all due respect and no intention to attack or hurt anybody. If the discussion is painful for individuals please do not feel obligated to participate.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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  • claudine19claudine19 Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    .
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dogs and nature abhor a vacuum.
    http://geaugadoggy.wordpress.com
  • WiregirlWiregirl Posts: 1,695Registered Users
    OMG I just read about this case! That kid is an animal who is my opinion should be put to death.
    SO very sorry to Claudine!
  • wild~hairwild~hair Posts: 9,890Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Some people are more sensitive than others and sometimes ask for help with that. If this truly is a "community," we should respect Claudine's wishes. I think the mod is just being sensitive to that, and I for one appreciate it.

    Is it in the board rules? (SL seemed to ask this question.) I don't think so, but mods have the explicitly outlined right to moderate in the face of unusual and changing circumstances, which this definitely is.

    Perhaps in a month or so, we could have another thread on the general topic of victim impact statements, which is obviously an important and interesting topic.

    If and when that happens, Claudine, perhaps it would be best if you simply avoided that thread in case it might be painful for you. Of course, only you can determine that.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,059 Administrator
    I didn't know you were involved in this, claudine. Sorry for your loss.

    Sure, lock the thread if that is the board policy. It was just random conversation to me.

    It's not "board policy," which is the reason the thread wasn't locked.

    This is a news story out of Ohio, so the coverage is probably non-stop where you are. The topic of victim impact statements is a very interesting one and one worth discussing in general terms. Claudine made a request that was specific to this case, and it was asked that you honor it, but at the end of the day, it's your choice to do so or not. There are no repercussions from a mod standpoint.

    The question of whether or not to discuss this particular case has nothing to do with board policy and everything to do with having compassion for another human being who is suffering.
  • claudine19claudine19 Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    Yes, I agree. And I have discussed that possibility with another poster, who was gracious enough to discuss it with me via PM.

    I don't want to inhibit free speech, but .....well, you read my posts.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dogs and nature abhor a vacuum.
    http://geaugadoggy.wordpress.com
  • claudine19claudine19 Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    Thank you so much, Guide 24.

    Thank you.

    Thank you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dogs and nature abhor a vacuum.
    http://geaugadoggy.wordpress.com
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    missed the response

  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,059 Administrator
    Amneris wrote: »
    I am really and truly sorry, claudine, and I sincerely mean that.


    BUT... a question for the guides. Is it really not possible to discuss a general topic in the news because it is difficult for particular individuals? I know many of us have been personally touched by tragedies and they were still discussed on the board ie. I lost someone in the Sandy Hook shooting but it was still discussed on here, and I don't feel it would be fair to ask that nobody discuss something that touches so many people because one of us has a personal connection, however painful. There is always the option not to go in a particular thread if the subject matter is too difficult - hasn't that always been the board policy? Why change it now?

    If we can't discuss that particular incident, can't we at least discuss the general topic of victim impact statements and vengeance, which I think is an interesting one?

    I say this with all due respect and no intention to attack or hurt anybody. If the discussion is painful for individuals please do not feel obligated to participate.

    We don't lock or delete threads in this situation. As I posted to Spiderlashes, it is her prerogative to continue discussing this particular case, even though it was requested of her not to do so. Our response as moderators would be the same for you or any other member, if you made such a request. There's no policy involved.

    Claudine also has the choice of opening the thread or not opening it (blocking Spiderlashes temporarily, so she doesn't have to see the topic, would work too).
  • Fifi.GFifi.G Posts: 15,490Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    wild~hair wrote: »
    Some people are more sensitive than others and sometimes ask for help with that. If this truly is a "community," we should respect Claudine's wishes. I think the mod is just being sensitive to that, and I for one appreciate it.

    Is it in the board rules? (SL seemed to ask this question.) I don't think so, but mods have the explicitly outlined right to moderate in the face of unusual and changing circumstances, which this definitely is.

    Perhaps in a month or so, we could have another thread on the general topic of victim impact statements, which is obviously an important and interesting topic.

    If and when that happens, Claudine, perhaps it would be best if you simply avoided that thread in case it might be painful for you. Of course, only you can determine that.

    This is exactly what I was thinking.

    One million (((((((hugs))))))) Claudine. This would have to be an incredibly difficult and trying situation. I am so sorry. :(
    When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • NalliaNallia Posts: 2,979Registered Users
    Claudine, I am very sorry you are going through this right now.

    You know, I can see both sides of this.

    I survived the attack on the World Trade Center on September 11th. I also lost two of my dearest friends (one who worked in the building and another who was a firefighter) that day and a lot of acquaintances. While most people have emotionally moved on and we've reached a point when we have young adults who barely remember it or were never emotionally affected by it, I still occasionally have nightmares. The things I saw and heard and smelled and lived through that day are seared into my memory and will probably never completely leave me. I have permanent damage to my lungs from it and will likely die sometime in the future from cancer or some other illness because of it.

    There were plenty of times when I couldn't handle the discussions about it. There were plenty of times when I lashed out in my pain because people. Just. Wouldn't. Stop. Talking. About. It. And "just don't open the threads" didn't help because it was obvious the discussions were going on. Sometimes a thread title is more than enough to pour salt in a wound and make it bleed again. So I understand all too well.

    That said, I also understand that none of us can really expect others to not discuss something they find interesting, important, or otherwise just want to talk about. No one was ever under any obligation to stop talking about such a horrendous tragedy just because of the pain it caused me (and others, I'm sure), and I really had no right to expect them to, no matter how much I wished otherwise.

    There are plenty of topics that are discussed here on a daily basis that can easily be a trigger for someone who has suffered through trauma. How often has rape, murder, abortion, child abuse, etc. been discussed here? None of us know how many people are suffering silently while these things are being picked apart, analyzed, and opined.

    Yes, everyone has the right to talk about whatever they want. And everyone will. But sometimes having compassion and empathy is more important than being right and making sure everyone knows it.
    "...just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." ~Harry Dresden

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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,898Registered Users Curl Virtuoso
    Guide24 wrote: »
    I didn't know you were involved in this, claudine. Sorry for your loss.

    Sure, lock the thread if that is the board policy. It was just random conversation to me.

    It's not "board policy," which is the reason the thread wasn't locked.

    This is a news story out of Ohio, so the coverage is probably non-stop where you are. The topic of victim impact statements is a very interesting one and one worth discussing in general terms. Claudine made a request that was specific to this case, and it was asked that you honor it, but at the end of the day, it's your choice to do so or not. There are no repercussions from a mod standpoint.

    The question of whether or not to discuss this particular case has nothing to do with board policy and everything to do with having compassion for another human being who is suffering.

    But I was capable of reading her request and deciding whether or not I would honor it without your additional Guide 24 request. Not sure why it was necessary for a Guide to reinforce the initial request.

    But I do wish to show empathy so I won't refer to the above trial again. But at a later date, I would like to revisit the general topic of criminal sentencing.

    And I would suggest a more discreet way to handle an objection w/ someone's thread is with a simple PM. Less drama stirred up that way.

  • wild~hairwild~hair Posts: 9,890Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Guide24 wrote: »
    Claudine also has the choice of opening the thread or not opening it (blocking Spiderlashes temporarily, so she doesn't have to see the topic, would work too).

    FWIW: If she blocks SL, she'll still see the thread. The title shows, just not the original post excerpt that appears in the thread listings.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 39,059 Administrator
    wild~hair wrote: »
    Guide24 wrote: »
    Claudine also has the choice of opening the thread or not opening it (blocking Spiderlashes temporarily, so she doesn't have to see the topic, would work too).

    FWIW: If she blocks SL, she'll still see the thread. The title shows, just not the original post excerpt that appears in the thread listings.

    Thanks for letting me know, wild~hair. With that in mind, I agree it's best to hold off entirely on this topic out of respect and compassion for Claudine.

    Claudine, I'm really sorry you're hurting.
  • claudine19claudine19 Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    Thank you again.

    I'm sorry for spilling my guts here. I just.....can't absorb what happened in court this week.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dogs and nature abhor a vacuum.
    http://geaugadoggy.wordpress.com
  • maria_imaria_i Posts: 1,764Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    I'm very sorry Claudine.
    3a/b.
    Mexico City.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AmnerisAmneris Posts: 15,117Registered Users
    Guide24 wrote: »
    I didn't know you were involved in this, claudine. Sorry for your loss.

    Sure, lock the thread if that is the board policy. It was just random conversation to me.

    It's not "board policy," which is the reason the thread wasn't locked.

    This is a news story out of Ohio, so the coverage is probably non-stop where you are. The topic of victim impact statements is a very interesting one and one worth discussing in general terms. Claudine made a request that was specific to this case, and it was asked that you honor it, but at the end of the day, it's your choice to do so or not. There are no repercussions from a mod standpoint.

    The question of whether or not to discuss this particular case has nothing to do with board policy and everything to do with having compassion for another human being who is suffering.

    But I was capable of reading her request and deciding whether or not I would honor it without your additional Guide 24 request. Not sure why it was necessary for a Guide to reinforce the initial request.

    But I do wish to show empathy so I won't refer to the above trial again. But at a later date, I would like to revisit the general topic of criminal sentencing.

    And I would suggest a more discreet way to handle an objection w/ someone's thread is with a simple PM. Less drama stirred up that way.

    Yes, I don't disagree with the idea that if something is painful for another person and they let that be known, the humane and compassionate thing to do is to back off (though on a message board, taken to extremes, we might not have many topics left....)

    I think I was just surprised to see a guide get involved because I personally associate that with wrongdoing or breaking of rules.

    But in any event, the right thing to do seems to be to leave this topic alone.

    And Claudine, I really am sorry for your loss and what you are going through. What a tragic, awful situation.
    Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali


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    534Pm5.png





  • irociroc Posts: 7,890Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I'm so sorry, claudine. I have no other words. I was sickened reading the article that was linked. I'm sorry for what you have experienced and the reminders of the pain you continually feel.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using CurlTalk App
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Like.AustraliaLike.Australia Posts: 2,544Registered Users
    I'm really sorry, J. I've seen you mention this young man before, but had no idea the tragedy affected you so deeply. Hugs to you.
  • claudine19claudine19 Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    Thank you everyone and please let's not talk about it anymore.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dogs and nature abhor a vacuum.
    http://geaugadoggy.wordpress.com

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