CurlTalk

Polyquat build up & CG method...

misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
Can anyone tell me about this?? How I'd recognize it? And what I can do to fix it if that's the problem?

I've trying to determine if that's contributing my tangling/texture problem or if it is something else. After starting CG I still had been using a mousse with Polyquaternium 4 in it.

Thanks!
CG since 3/1/13
3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
Very high density, waist length

Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
Sealer: apricot oil
Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens

Comments

  • NvmbrCurlssNvmbrCurlss Posts: 732Registered Users
    Polyquats tangle and dry out my hair. I need to use coco betaine to remove them. As a result I don't use them...but this may not be what's causing ur tangles...could be too much protein or a manipulation issue that occurs when ur hair is drying? Just a thought...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]3B, Fine, Normal P, Normal E, Low-Med D
    LowP: Kinky Curly Come Clean (50% EVOO)
    NoP: As I Am CC
    RO: Suave Coconut, VO5 Shea Cashmere
    LI: KCKT or CJBCLI or HETT/HENOYF (w/ 8 drops GSO)


    "To much is given, much is expected"
  • misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
    Were your tangles/dryness more noticeable when wet? I've already cut out all the proteins so it shouldn't be that... unless it takes a while to adjust? What do you mean by a manipulation issue? I've been braiding right out of the shower to try to cut down on the tangling. I've been told I need more moisture too which I'm working on doing.

    Do you have any product recommendations with coco betaine?

    Thanks for the help! Your hair is gorgeous! Hope I can get that "CG" look!
    CG since 3/1/13
    3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
    Very high density, waist length

    Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
    RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
    Sealer: apricot oil
    Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
    Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

    Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    For me, polyquat build up shows up as frizz when wet. I need to use a surfactant that's stronger then coco b to remove it. You need to be careful reading ingredients, there are a number of shampoos that contain polyquat 7. The ones I noticed were 4, 7 and 10. Now, I stay away from all polyquats.
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • turquoisecurlsturquoisecurls Posts: 134Registered Users
    Kathymack, can you point me to some threads/links for Polyquats to get a better understanding, I have been searching but I have only found fragments of info. Don't want to start a new thread and hear the groan of another repeat thread :toothy4:
    2c/3a cg 01/10/13

    Hair Properties: low( first 4 inches) / high porosity, medium density, fine/medium texture Climate : hot humid summer, coastal GA

    Co-wash: Suave Naturals Coconut / Everlasting Sunshine, V05
    Rinse out :Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture, VO5 ocean refresh
    LI: SMCHM ,SMCS, JCRR,
    Gel: La Looks sport, Volumax mega gel,Biosilk Rock Hard gel my HG

    Love ACV , pedaheh's gelatin treatment
    My hair hates everything Deva curl and Curl Keeper,
  • kathymackkathymack Posts: 9,999Registered Users
    Kathymack, can you point me to some threads/links for Polyquats to get a better understanding, I have been searching but I have only found fragments of info. Don't want to start a new thread and hear the groan of another repeat thread :toothy4:

    Thanks for the consideration. While the search function on nc.com isn't the best, there are better ways to use it. I did the advanced search function, put "polyquats" as my question, choose the titles function and the Hair Forums. One of the posts took me to a blog article by jillipoo, a former poster:

    No-poo Jillipoo: Silicones, polyquats, and soap

    Old thread with lots of information:

    http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/2532-cones-polyquats-ions-removal-buildup.html

    Current thread: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/153770-what-deal-polyquats.html

    Curl Chemist Polyquats as Conditioning Agents
    3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
    SE PA

    HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • turquoisecurlsturquoisecurls Posts: 134Registered Users
    Thank you for taking the time to search for the links!
    I'm mostly using my tablet and I have not found 2 of the links you posted, ugh frustrating. Very grateful , thanks!
    2c/3a cg 01/10/13

    Hair Properties: low( first 4 inches) / high porosity, medium density, fine/medium texture Climate : hot humid summer, coastal GA

    Co-wash: Suave Naturals Coconut / Everlasting Sunshine, V05
    Rinse out :Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture, VO5 ocean refresh
    LI: SMCHM ,SMCS, JCRR,
    Gel: La Looks sport, Volumax mega gel,Biosilk Rock Hard gel my HG

    Love ACV , pedaheh's gelatin treatment
    My hair hates everything Deva curl and Curl Keeper,
  • flippaciousflippacious Posts: 155Registered Users
    I avoid polyquats now. They cause pretty noticeable buildup for me. I also get wet frizz, and my hair gets limp, heavy, frizzy and greasy all at the same time when dry. It's really a terrible sight! I have never gotten tangles from polyquats, but my hair never tangles (never has). My hair is very short, though. Perhaps if you have polyquat buildup on the length of your hair, the strands are not able to absorb the moisture they need, and are tangling more?

    I also could not get them out with coco b or anything milder, even though I think some of the science says coco b should do it. I ended up using a sulfate shampoo (which really isn't the end of the world).
    2b/c, high density
    fine, medium porosity, normal elasticity
    loves protein, hates polyquats
    still searching for HGs
  • misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
    Okay, there's good info here, thanks everybody!! I had done a search but was still feeling lost. I'm glad this forum is here to help with clarification and support. One simple post from the right person can save hours of frustration!

    I don't know if saying "tangling" was the best way for me to describe it, or at least maybe it wasn't the only issue...my hair after wetting and co washing felt almost matted! And, yes, very frizzy. It felt different than the protein sensitivity though.

    After co washing and having the same reaction AGAIN (after cutting out the polyquat) I cracked and broke out my old shampoo with sulphates. After using that and co washing again, my hair felt so much better! I still had some tangling to comb through but it didn't feel quite so matted and I seemed to have more slip, even though I had used the same conditioner. I'm hoping it was the polyquat build up and that I got it all out and can now simply focus on moisturizing and sealing more. We'll see how it goes. This is complicated stuff!

    Flip - My hair was limp, heavy and greasy when dry too! I was thinking that was just from being new to CG tho. Which is probably also still a part of it but who knows.

    Excellent point about the polyquat buildup along the length of my strands causing an inability to absorb the moisture they need and are tangling more for that reason! Makes sense to me!

    Did your hair feel immediately different/better after shampooing with sulphates? Will my having do that sulphate wash interfere with my CG transition period? I know it can take some time, I'm hoping I didn't re-set the clock!
    CG since 3/1/13
    3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
    Very high density, waist length

    Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
    RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
    Sealer: apricot oil
    Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
    Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

    Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
  • flippaciousflippacious Posts: 155Registered Users
    Yay, I'm glad it feels better already! Yes, shampooing and getting the polyquats out made my hair better pretty quickly. I actually was shocked by how curly and shiny my hair was following the sulfate cleanse. I think the polyquats were making it weighed down, gunky, and dull.

    I don't think a single sulfate cleanse resets the whole process too badly, especially if it's just once in a blue moon. I had to do it a couple of times when I ran into products that didn't agree with me. But now, being CG and pampering your hair should be much more effective if you've gotten rid of that buildup! :D
    2b/c, high density
    fine, medium porosity, normal elasticity
    loves protein, hates polyquats
    still searching for HGs
  • misbehavemisbehave Posts: 115Registered Users
    Yay, I'm glad it feels better already! Yes, shampooing and getting the polyquats out made my hair better pretty quickly. I actually was shocked by how curly and shiny my hair was following the sulfate cleanse. I think the polyquats were making it weighed down, gunky, and dull.

    I don't think a single sulfate cleanse resets the whole process too badly, especially if it's just once in a blue moon. I had to do it a couple of times when I ran into products that didn't agree with me. But now, being CG and pampering your hair should be much more effective if you've gotten rid of that buildup! :D

    This is really good news...thanks!! :thumbleft:
    CG since 3/1/13
    3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
    Very high density, waist length

    Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
    RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
    Sealer: apricot oil
    Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
    Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

    Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
  • IHateToFussIHateToFuss Posts: 13Registered Users
    The "science-y hair blog" has helpful polyquat articles, such as this one: Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat or Not?

    The writer stresses that whether or not one experiences polyquat build-up is highly variable, and individualistic. The writer ranks the various polyquats in order of their tenacity.
    2B, fine hair, normal porosity & elasticity, low density and thinning. I don't color it. Greying. Ouidad for 7 yrs has given me healthy, frizzy hair (& a blessedly non-itchy scalp). Skeptical about science of CG. Now using: Curl Junkie CQ gel & Beauticurls (non-LI) conditioner, Spiral Solutions deep Repairing Protein Treatment, & Ouidad (sulfate & cocmidopropyl Betaine) shampoo.
  • Geek_ChicGeek_Chic Posts: 1,257Registered Users Curl Connoisseur
    The "science-y hair blog" has helpful polyquat articles, such as this one: Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat or Not?

    The writer stresses that whether or not one experiences polyquat build-up is highly variable, and individualistic. The writer ranks the various polyquats in order of their tenacity.

    Love the science-y hair blog! For any visual learners, this polyquat entry is good: Science-y Hair Blog: Polyquat build-up
    CG since 11/2011
    2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

    Go To Products /Routine:
    Clarifying: Suave Essentials Strawberry
    Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
    CO: Suave Essentials Strawberry, V05 Kiwi Lime
    RO /LI: Tresemme Perfectly (un)Done, Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime Squeeze, Suave Essentials Strawberry, Renpure Brazilian Keratin (old formula)
    Stylers: LALSG, AIF, HETT, Suave Professionals Firm Control
    PT: IAGirl's as needed