CurlTalk

Back to Cones and Sulfates

After almost 2 years of completely natural products and routines I finally decided which conditioner and shampoo I will use to start back on cones.

The cone free method has been more damaging to my hair than anything simply because the products just don't add enough creaminess and slipperiness that my long curls need to stay tangle free and moisturized.

I can always add extra coconut oil and vitamins to the products but I have chosen to go back to cones using the Herbal Essence Honey I'm Strong system:
ImageUploadedByCurlTalk1352343222.273151.jpg
The conditioner was $7 and the shampoo was $7 at Walmart :( but they are 33.8 Fl Oz each.

I'm approaching my 3 years of my 10 year hair growth challenge starting with a skin bald head and I don't think I will be able to make it with luxurious hair if I don't add that extra slip (cones) back to my routine.

My 3rd year will be in march 2013. The longest part of my hair currently measures 22-23 inches but I've had 2 setbacks from the natural products not adding enough slip so I had to cut hair off while detangling my curls which means my hair could be longer by now even though it is down to my waist after only 2.5 years.

I still might use the Tresemme naturals conditioner as a treatment every other day or something like that.

I can't remember the last time I used regular shampoo so this is going to be nerve wrecking but I will find a way. Maybe I will need to still only shampoo my scalp and let it rinse out through the hair. My only problem is why the heck are there cones in the shampoo?

I already found out there is sodium hydroxide in the conditioner as a PH balancer but I only hope this junk doesn't start smelling like perm in my hair.

Does anybody use this as their leave-in conditioner?? I will try it that way and update this thread on the results. I usually start with dripping wet hair and load buckets of Tresemme naturals in and let it air dry. I will use this new conditioner the same way but my guess is I won't have to use that much because of the cones (halfway down the ingredient list)

If anybody else uses this shampoo and conditioner and has tips then let me know. I also grabbed these 2 large clamps so that I can learn to take care of my hair in sections. I usually just treat it as 1 big unit never really sectioning it but its too long and takes forever to work with that way.
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Comments

  • PRINCETONPRINCETON Posts: 872Registered Users
    I wanted to add to this thread that the conditioner claims to protect and mimic the hair's natural "F-LAYER"... Whatever that is lol

    So I did some research and apparently the hair has a natural layer of fatty lipids or something that prevents moisture from getting into the shaft and through the open cuticle. Which also means it prevents moisture from getting out of the shaft (or maybe not).

    This makes me question if there is a certain level of moisture that can be damaging to the hair and its also weird to keep saying hair is "dead" if in fact it is some kind of organism that continues to moderate and manage its own moisture levels.
  • Corrina777Corrina777 Posts: 3,193Registered Users
    Hair really is dead in the most technical and accurate sense. There is no life on a cellular level at all. The absorption/loss of moisture isn't regulated as much as it is consequential to strand porosity balanced with environmental humidity (or lack thereof). Lower porosity hair resists moisture changes because the cuticle lies very flat, with little room for moisture to enter or exit. Higher porosity hair has a more roughened or opened cuticle, so moisture moves in and out more quickly.

    As far as damage due to moisture, it is theoretically possible, but probably very highly unlikely (it's much more common for damage to be caused during the drying process - IAGirl had an amazing blog explaining how heat- in the sense of the very rapid drying of hair- can cause damage to the cuticle).

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
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  • PRINCETONPRINCETON Posts: 872Registered Users
    Definitely hair is dead but we seem to treat it as if it still needs tender loving care.

    We describe it as though it "reacts" and in that sense we take its sensitivity into consideration.
  • PRINCETONPRINCETON Posts: 872Registered Users
    I ended up resurrecting my DENMAN brush after saturating my hair with water and conditioner.

    Haven't used the DENMAN in about a year and I was reminded of how fluid it seemed to just comb through the hair. Will start using it daily again.

    This conditioner must be extremely moisturizing because my fingers are raisins - as though I had them soaking in a bathtub for hours. I wonder if this will have the same affect to my scalp lol wrinkly (yet moisturized) scalp lol

    Tomorrow morning I will rinse out and then style with it as a leave in styler and put into a single long braid to the back.
  • PRINCETONPRINCETON Posts: 872Registered Users
    Next morning 90% dry after leaving the conditioner in my hair overnight. I guess I have to shampoo the cones out every day and get back into that cycle but having less tangles is worth it.

    ImageUploadedByCurlTalk1352406879.990929.jpg
  • PRINCETONPRINCETON Posts: 872Registered Users
    Hair finally dried and this is how my ends turned out. Just the Honey I'm Strong conditioner and DENMAN brush.
    ImageUploadedByCurlTalk1352421931.726400.jpg
  • GoddessCurlsGoddessCurls Posts: 1,537Registered Users
    I only need to shampoo with sulphates infrequently....and I use cones...Aussie moist...I use honey I'm strong too...in fact going to Walmart tomorrow....may pick up a big bottle. I still get by with no poo most of the time...if/ when I shampoo I used basic stuff like vo5 clarifying like ( smells divine) but I don't use it much...maybe once a week or once every two weeks. Anymore and I start to get greasy roots.
    ________________________
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fcurlygirl1978%2F" class="Popup

    Back on Cones,so now my routine is,wash with Deva No-Poo every other day or so. Occasionally use 365 sulfate free,maybe use low sulfate shampoo mixed with conditioner once every two weeks are longer. I condition with Aussie Moist or HEHH. I style with a little GF TN,and finish up with tons of GN Pure Clean Smoothing Cream. No frizz...slippy, happy hair.
  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    Great looking curls you have there, Prince! :) I love my Denman, too...always gives me awesome clumps! And now I want to try Honey I'm Strong lol!
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • PRINCETONPRINCETON Posts: 872Registered Users
    I only need to shampoo with sulphates infrequently....and I use cones...
    This morning I used the shampoo part and it left my hair feeling too soft like cotton. I'm gonna start oiling my hair the night before washing.

    Great looking curls you have there, Prince! :) I love my Denman, !
    Thanks ;) I feel like I have more options now that I broke away from not using cones. I just wish I knew how to style and not wear buns and braids all the time.
  • ravenm721ravenm721 Posts: 80Registered Users
    Yeah, I know what you mean. I really hate the lack of slip tbat I get with cone free conditioners tok when co-washing. A lot of people rave about Tresemme Naturals and V05 products, but those give my hair little slip..which increases detangling time in my case. The only cone free oroducts that I can get down with are products from the "Giovanni line"

    Good to know that the Herbal Essences Honey Im Strong worked for you though. Ive never used that one..but have heard many good things about it. Ive always loved Herbal Essences before my cone free days and might return back to using them myself. Gotta do what works best for you.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App
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  • GoddessCurlsGoddessCurls Posts: 1,537Registered Users
    I gotta say...I love the cones! In always looking for ones that don't build up too bad on me. Aussie moist works well....and smells great. My hair is so frigging curly...and tangle prone I need slip or I'd never get out of the shower. I'd literally cry while trying to detangle without cones before.
    ________________________
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fcurlygirl1978%2F" class="Popup

    Back on Cones,so now my routine is,wash with Deva No-Poo every other day or so. Occasionally use 365 sulfate free,maybe use low sulfate shampoo mixed with conditioner once every two weeks are longer. I condition with Aussie Moist or HEHH. I style with a little GF TN,and finish up with tons of GN Pure Clean Smoothing Cream. No frizz...slippy, happy hair.
  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    PRINCETON wrote: »
    I only need to shampoo with sulphates infrequently....and I use cones...
    This morning I used the shampoo part and it left my hair feeling too soft like cotton. I'm gonna start oiling my hair the night before washing.

    Great looking curls you have there, Prince! :) I love my Denman, !
    Thanks ;) I feel like I have more options now that I broke away from not using cones. I just wish I knew how to style and not wear buns and braids all the time.

    you can style curly hair...? Who knew! Lol! I just let mine hang, or I bun it. I don't know of any other way...

    ETA - 'Cones, and a Denman. Or detangling does *not* happen ;p
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • GoddessCurlsGoddessCurls Posts: 1,537Registered Users
    I still feel weird brushing wet hair. My mom always told me not too
    ________________________
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fcurlygirl1978%2F" class="Popup

    Back on Cones,so now my routine is,wash with Deva No-Poo every other day or so. Occasionally use 365 sulfate free,maybe use low sulfate shampoo mixed with conditioner once every two weeks are longer. I condition with Aussie Moist or HEHH. I style with a little GF TN,and finish up with tons of GN Pure Clean Smoothing Cream. No frizz...slippy, happy hair.
  • PRINCETONPRINCETON Posts: 872Registered Users
    I'm trying hard to not use any tools at all but it gets crazily tangly after 2 days of just conditioning.

    8 more years in my 10 year grow challenge but I'm gonna try another challenge of throwing away all tools and rubber bands.

    I use those tiny rubber bands for my pony tails but When it's time to remove them I use scissors to cut the rubber band out but I want to just stop using them.
  • GoddessCurlsGoddessCurls Posts: 1,537Registered Users
    Ooh....and no rubber bands...she used the covered ones in my hair when I was a kid....but now that I'm curly...no small elastics at all. They do bad things to me
    ________________________
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fcurlygirl1978%2F" class="Popup

    Back on Cones,so now my routine is,wash with Deva No-Poo every other day or so. Occasionally use 365 sulfate free,maybe use low sulfate shampoo mixed with conditioner once every two weeks are longer. I condition with Aussie Moist or HEHH. I style with a little GF TN,and finish up with tons of GN Pure Clean Smoothing Cream. No frizz...slippy, happy hair.
  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    PRINCETON wrote: »
    I'm trying hard to not use any tools at all but it gets crazily tangly after 2 days of just conditioning.

    8 more years in my 10 year grow challenge but I'm gonna try another challenge of throwing away all tools and rubber bands.

    I use those tiny rubber bands for my pony tails but When it's time to remove them I use scissors to cut the rubber band out but I want to just stop using them.

    Denmans are good, and crazy elastics are bad ;p use the kind covered with material and with no metal bits. They are hair friendly :)
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • GoddessCurlsGoddessCurls Posts: 1,537Registered Users
    I still can't use the covered ones up high in my hair like to make a ponytail ...it would get caught.

    So brushing curly hair wet with this denman is really not damaging?
    ________________________
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fcurlygirl1978%2F" class="Popup

    Back on Cones,so now my routine is,wash with Deva No-Poo every other day or so. Occasionally use 365 sulfate free,maybe use low sulfate shampoo mixed with conditioner once every two weeks are longer. I condition with Aussie Moist or HEHH. I style with a little GF TN,and finish up with tons of GN Pure Clean Smoothing Cream. No frizz...slippy, happy hair.
  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    I still can't use the covered ones up high in my hair like to make a ponytail ...it would get caught.

    So brushing curly hair wet with this denman is really not damaging?

    Use a ribbon, it won't disrupt your curl or break your hair :) or, use a leather thong. Or, use a hair brooch - it is a curved piece of metal or leather with a stick or prong that goes through it to hold you hair in place.

    Brushing your curly wet hair with a Denman won't hurt you. please watch the SuperSoaker video :) http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/81176-super-soaker-method-promoting-clumps-updated-video-link.html

    This technique rescued me from horrendous, heart-eating frizz, and gave me awesome clumps! :D
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • GoddessCurlsGoddessCurls Posts: 1,537Registered Users
    I may have to try it.
    ________________________
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fcurlygirl1978%2F" class="Popup

    Back on Cones,so now my routine is,wash with Deva No-Poo every other day or so. Occasionally use 365 sulfate free,maybe use low sulfate shampoo mixed with conditioner once every two weeks are longer. I condition with Aussie Moist or HEHH. I style with a little GF TN,and finish up with tons of GN Pure Clean Smoothing Cream. No frizz...slippy, happy hair.
  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    I may have to try it.

    There are loads of techniques here...just go to the General Hair Discussion column, and look at the top of the forum, before the posts, there is a sticky there called "Techniques" :) there are many techniques listed, I am sure one will work for you!
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • PRINCETONPRINCETON Posts: 872Registered Users
    I like the DENMAN cause it really removes all the loose/shed hair but you still have to be careful and take your time in some areas.

    I found that its really damaging to not remove all the shed hair every now and then and the DENMAN has a billion teeth that grabs all the hair.

    I can't find any of the "cloth covered" ones but I think ur talking about scunchi kind?

    I got braids tonight and hope to have them at least for 30 days. I'll be using that DENMAN my first conditioning after my braid out.

    ImageUploadedByCurlTalk1352622267.941524.jpg
  • GoddessCurlsGoddessCurls Posts: 1,537Registered Users
    Well...I did use a denman type yesterday in the shower. After I detangled...and really to just get the shed hair. My hair looked nice last night. Now today I guess will be the test I'll see I'd I'm any less tangled today than before.
    ________________________
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fcurlygirl1978%2F" class="Popup

    Back on Cones,so now my routine is,wash with Deva No-Poo every other day or so. Occasionally use 365 sulfate free,maybe use low sulfate shampoo mixed with conditioner once every two weeks are longer. I condition with Aussie Moist or HEHH. I style with a little GF TN,and finish up with tons of GN Pure Clean Smoothing Cream. No frizz...slippy, happy hair.
  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    Princeton, by "cloth covered" I meant the rubber elastics that have some kind of stretchy covering/coating on them - I don't know how to describe that, lol! Sometimes they have a metal bit in them, you have to avoid those as the metal breaks the hair. They are readily available, you can find them in any drugstore. So no, not scrunchies ;p you can also use the small silicone ones that people use for their braces (as in teeth) they are very slippery and won't stick in the hair...

    And Goddesscurls, I hope the Denman helped you :) I do find since using it I have less frizz, less knots and less tangles. I think it is the removal of the shed hair that has that effect - there are no loose hairs trapping themselves in your curls and coils ;) it seems also to put every stray hair back into the clump it belongs in, if that makes sense...?
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • asianrunnerasianrunner Posts: 2,251Registered Users
    Coarse texture, normal-high porosity, normal elasticity (Komaza Care), very weak waves
    cleanser: Redken Fresh Curls Shampoo, CJ Daily Fix

    rinse out: GVP Conditioning Balm, CJ Beauticurls, CJ Smoothing

    jellies/creams: CR Curl Maker, KCCC
    gels: CJ CQ, CJ Pattern Pusha, BRHG

  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    Maddy are you talking about ones like these?

    Goody Ouchless Hair Elastics - Black (32 Count) : Target

    Yes! Exactly the ones, Asianrunner! Tx :)
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    Princeton, your hair looks great!

    I'm back on 'cones, too. Sigh. (I can quit anytime I want!) I haven't used an SLS, ALS cleanser in years, but even when I don't use silicones, I do need to use a clarifying cleanser once a month. I've noticed that when it's super dry, and low dew point temperatures, 'cones really help my hair, but glycerin can dry it out. Amodimethicone doesn't seem to bother my hair at all, and dimethicone isn't too bad. I have to be careful with the "cyclo" ones, for some reason.

    Did you use a silicone styler in your braids? Silicone products seem so light to me, I don't think they would hold braids or twists in my hair. I wonder if they're going to help with detangling when you take out your braids...Keep us posted.

    GoddessCurls - I used a Denman for years before I found CG, etc. It's way way better than those "vent" brush things or regular bristle hair brushes that only tear your hair out. Now I'm stuck on my Ouidad comb. The other day my hair was so tangled I wanted to see if a brush would make any difference in how long it was going to take to untangle. I looked for my Denman, and I found out one of my sons stole it and took it to college with him. (That brush is older than he is!). So I tried to use a hairbrush I use for my daughter, called the "Wet" Brush. It works great on my 4 year old daughter, but it was no match for my hair. If the Denman is too much for your hair you may want to try the "Wet" brush. It doesn't look like much, but it completely detangles my daughter's wet hair, easily and gently. It weighs way less than the Ouidad comb or the Denman, too, so your arm won't get numb trying to get knots out of your hair.
    3b/c, Coarse, Low Porosity, Desert Climate
    CG since August 2011/Occasionally Minimally Modified since 2013
    Favorites: Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl Cleansing Conditioner, Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl High Definition Moisture Gel, Beautiful Nutrition UltraLight Lime Jel Control Serum, Beautiful Nutrition Lemon Rinse Clarifying Treatment
  • GoddessCurlsGoddessCurls Posts: 1,537Registered Users
    So far so good. I'm gonna keep it up
    ________________________
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fcurlygirl1978%2F" class="Popup

    Back on Cones,so now my routine is,wash with Deva No-Poo every other day or so. Occasionally use 365 sulfate free,maybe use low sulfate shampoo mixed with conditioner once every two weeks are longer. I condition with Aussie Moist or HEHH. I style with a little GF TN,and finish up with tons of GN Pure Clean Smoothing Cream. No frizz...slippy, happy hair.
  • PRINCETONPRINCETON Posts: 872Registered Users
    Princeton, your hair looks great!

    I'm back on 'cones, too. Sigh. (I can quit anytime I want!) I haven't used an SLS, ALS cleanser in years, but even when I don't use silicones, I do need to use a clarifying cleanser once a month. I've noticed that when it's super dry,

    Did you use a silicone styler in your braids? .

    Thanks!!!
    No, I just used virgin coconut oil and then got it braided. About an hour before she started I put the coconut oil in the microwave and then worked it into my hair. I hated that I had to comb out all my curls lol but at least I can go a while without having to worry that much about my hair :)
  • GoddessCurlsGoddessCurls Posts: 1,537Registered Users
    Any of u use a leave in conditioner that has cones in it?
    ________________________
    /home/leaving?target=http%3A%2F%2Fpublic.fotki.com%2Fcurlygirl1978%2F" class="Popup

    Back on Cones,so now my routine is,wash with Deva No-Poo every other day or so. Occasionally use 365 sulfate free,maybe use low sulfate shampoo mixed with conditioner once every two weeks are longer. I condition with Aussie Moist or HEHH. I style with a little GF TN,and finish up with tons of GN Pure Clean Smoothing Cream. No frizz...slippy, happy hair.
  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    Princeton, you are lucky to have the option of braids - they look great, too ;)

    Goddess, I use Catwalk curlesque leave-in - it has 'cones and paraben and also is mineral oil based, my hair seems to really like it...
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
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