CurlTalk

They just don't get it

BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
Living in Texas, I am surrounded by people who are not happy with the election results. I voted for Obama, not because I believe he is a great president but he is the lesser of two evils, in my opinion. No party is without its faults but one party just has a lot more faults.

I believe both campaigns did a poor job trying to win over the "women's" vote (as if we are a homogenous group who only have one or two interests) but I believe Romney did a much poorer job.

I get the impression from my repub friends and family that they buy into the stereotypes of repubs being for less spending, smaller government, better at national defense, and has some moral superiority. I, as a moderate, as a woman, as someone who has really tried to listen to both sides and make sense of it all, didn't see it that way. Many repubs think there is equality between the sexes and that we make too much out of perceived inequities that they can rationalize away, that the rape-talk/stricter abortion regulations/possible overturn of Roe v Wade if Supreme Ct adds more conservatives are just minor issues that women do not need to worry about or our hoping women again just stand by their man and just take one for the team. Giving up rights for a promise of a better financial future (that I'm still doubting Romney could have delivered on) is not something I can respect within myself.

The talk of cutting money on education for children, double-talk about Medicare/social security without really talking about how their alternative vision is really going to fix things; the hints of wanting to make an amendment for the defense of marriage act to do what? to try to stifle any progress homosexuals are making?

Look, you don't have to be pro-choice or even pro-gay marriage to see the bullying that is in their underlying message.

If they want to win in the mid-term elections or in four years, they need to stop creating their narrative at Fox and talk-shows, look at reality, go more moderate in their social issues, and do a much better job explaining their economic policies. Stop calling the President a Muslim, a Kenyan...stop trying to discredit him...instead positively promote your policies using reality-based evidence (rather than manufactured fear tactics). If you can acknowledge real problems that women, children, minorities, the elderly, etc...and explain why you are better than what we have, I would gladly support a Republican. I am a moderate.
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Comments

  • juanabjuanab Posts: 4,037Registered Users
    You make very good points.

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  • Who Me?Who Me? Posts: 3,181Registered Users
    I really agree with what you wrote here. I feel as if I had to use my vote to maintain my own civil rights as a woman (control of my own body and my fertility is something that should be up to me, not the government) and try to achieve them for others (i.e. homosexuals). As women, we really have nothing if we don't have control of our fertility. Education, careers, equal partnership, the ability to care for our children--none of this is possible if we don't have control of our fertility.

    I would LOVE to be able to engage in a real debate about economic and foreign policy. To feel free (yes, FREE) to make a decision on these issues, because I know my own basic civil liberties are accepted.


    Not exactly on this topic, but I would also completely respect people who had differing views than my own if they could back them up with any kind of data, instead of religious beliefs and "feelings".
    "I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again!" -BART SIMPSON
  • SunshineGrrlSunshineGrrl Posts: 3,823Registered Users
    I'm with you, Boomy. I had to log off from facebook because a lot of the people on my friends list are posting all these anti-Obama statements. About how this country is going to be overtaken, we're paying for our sins, etc., how their faith in the United States people is gone...

    Yeahhhh...I can't read that kind of crap. Be supportive of our president. I know you may not like him, but he's got a hell of a mess to dig us out of. Having to field all these attacks instead of focusing on fixing us is ridiculous and pointless. And I'm sorry, but 4 years is a heck of a short time to dig us out of the crap previous presidents have gotten us into.

  • Rubber BiscuitRubber Biscuit Posts: 1,294Registered Users
    Well said, Boomy. Critical thinking, logical explanation, and moderate/liberal social views would behoove the Republican party on the next go-round.
    - Seek first to understand, then to be understood.
    - Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you.
  • nynaeve77nynaeve77 Posts: 7,135Registered Users
    The funny thing is that most of the liberals I know are all for fiscal conservatism. I can't think of any who are all, "Spend the money frivolously!" They might differ on what to spend money on, but I don't think anyone's saying they want the federal government to do whatever they want and spend like crazy.

    That being said, I'm with others in the thread who would love to have more options. I'm not 100% down with the Democratic party, but at this point, the Republicans are so far in the weeds. I used to vote Republican but they've gone so far out of bounds on civil rights issues that I can't in good conscience support that party. Should they ever decide to stop pandering to the racists, misogynists, and other lunatic fringe, I'll be happy to reconsider them.
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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I agree both sides did a poor job courting women voters. I am pro-life/anti-abortion rights and I think Obama had to sell out his true pro-life position to win this election, and that makes me sick. But it's the way of the world anymore, sadly. So he lost stripes w/ me over that one. But redeemed himself slightly w/ the Ledbetter Bill.

    Mitt Romney...not doing anything one way or another for women and he's smarmy, elist, racist prick, so there you go.

  • LotsawavesLotsawaves Posts: 8,660Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    Boomy, I hear you! I'm from Texas, so most of my friends on FB are from there. I got so sick of them that I deleted my FB account. I'm sure they are going crazy today.

    What's been really hard for me is that my daughter and her husband are Republicans and so is my bf and all of his family. I think my daughter is just following her husband and his beliefs and not really doing any research on her own.
    From Michael Berg:

    Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
  • sus811sus811 Posts: 98Registered Users
    I think I realized this time around that I am a Libertarian. Gary Johnson ran for this party and his explanation of what Libertarians are (fiscally conservative and socially accepting) really hit home with me. In the end I voted for tweedle dumb instead of tweedle dumber (just to help keep tweedle dumber out), but I learned about a new party that I may relate to, but lets be real, how many lifetimes will it be before a libertarian or green candidate gets invited to a debate, let alone takes the presidency. Until then, we are left voting for lesser evils to try to keep the greater evils out *sigh*
  • Who Me?Who Me? Posts: 3,181Registered Users
    sus811 wrote: »
    I think I realized this time around that I am a Libertarian. Gary Johnson ran for this party and his explanation of what Libertarians are (fiscally conservative and socially accepting) really hit home with me. In the end I voted for tweedle dumb instead of tweedle dumber (just to help keep tweedle dumber out), but I learned about a new party that I may relate to, but lets be real, how many lifetimes will it be before a libertarian or green candidate gets invited to a debate, let alone takes the presidency. Until then, we are left voting for lesser evils to try to keep the greater evils out *sigh*

    Remember that the candidates don't come from no where. We all should be doing our part to make sure that candidates we DO like get on the ballot. This means, primarily, voting in the local elections. The candidates are previous governors and senators. And most governors and senators held some kind of local office first, too. Let's all work to get the right people into the right positions. Waiting until there's 2 candidates for president and then complaining about them is a failure on the part of the American people.

    I made a point to publicly state yesterday that anyone who's not happy with the candidates for president should feel even more incentive to vote, to make sure you get better candidates in the future.
    "I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again!" -BART SIMPSON
  • BoomygrrlBoomygrrl Posts: 4,940Registered Users
    Part of dysfunctionality of life (and political parties here in US) is dichotomizing. Us vs Them. Superior/inferior; the in-crowd/the "others"...both parties benefit from this lack of choices. Repubs need to step up in winning voters, Dems need to stop taking their constituents for granted...but why bother making REAL changes under this system? Women have made progress in the past 20 years, but not enough in my mind. We still get sold short. Real change isn't going to take place (not quickly) as long as we have "the lesser of two evils" to vote for. I think more can be done, but at least we aren't going backwards.
    Repubs turn away and say "there is no sexism/racism/etc" Dems see it but are often ineffective or minimally effective in doing something about it. We sell ourselves short. Of course, govt isn't always the answer but they can provide a push to help us while we fight our own fights...whether its for wage equity, reducing violence against women/children, etc.
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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    sus811 wrote: »
    I think I realized this time around that I am a Libertarian. Gary Johnson ran for this party and his explanation of what Libertarians are (fiscally conservative and socially accepting) really hit home with me. In the end I voted for tweedle dumb instead of tweedle dumber (just to help keep tweedle dumber out), but I learned about a new party that I may relate to, but lets be real, how many lifetimes will it be before a libertarian or green candidate gets invited to a debate, let alone takes the presidency. Until then, we are left voting for lesser evils to try to keep the greater evils out *sigh*


    Remember Ross Perot and his running mate (can't remember his name, the senile old Korean War hero or whatever lol) got to debate back in 92? (Was it the Korean War? Maybe it was Vietnam? I suppose I could look some of this up...but you get what i'm saying.)

    How did they get in? Did they buy their way in? They actually didn't do badly in the election.

  • sus811sus811 Posts: 98Registered Users
    I do remember...hope it happens again someday!!
  • papayahedpapayahed Posts: 1,282Registered Users
    I get the impression from my repub friends and family that they buy into the stereotypes of repubs being for less spending, smaller government, better at national defense, and has some moral superiority. I, as a moderate, as a woman, as someone who has really tried to listen to both sides and make sense of it all, didn't see it that way. Many repubs think there is equality between the sexes and that we make too much out of perceived inequities that they can rationalize away, that the rape-talk/stricter abortion regulations/possible overturn of Roe v Wade if Supreme Ct adds more conservatives are just minor issues that women do not need to worry about or our hoping women again just stand by their man and just take one for the team. Giving up rights for a promise of a better financial future (that I'm still doubting Romney could have delivered on) is not something I can respect within myself.

    Northwest Louisiana here and I'd have to agree with the above. A good friend of mine and a rational human being loves to inform me of why I should be voting republican that my number one priority is the economy. :dontknow: I don't think he pays attention when I give him the reasons why I don't vote like him.
  • sus811sus811 Posts: 98Registered Users
    papayahed wrote: »
    I get the impression from my repub friends and family that they buy into the stereotypes of repubs being for less spending, smaller government, better at national defense, and has some moral superiority. I, as a moderate, as a woman, as someone who has really tried to listen to both sides and make sense of it all, didn't see it that way. Many repubs think there is equality between the sexes and that we make too much out of perceived inequities that they can rationalize away, that the rape-talk/stricter abortion regulations/possible overturn of Roe v Wade if Supreme Ct adds more conservatives are just minor issues that women do not need to worry about or our hoping women again just stand by their man and just take one for the team. Giving up rights for a promise of a better financial future (that I'm still doubting Romney could have delivered on) is not something I can respect within myself.

    Northwest Louisiana here and I'd have to agree with the above. A good friend of mine and a rational human being loves to inform me of why I should be voting republican that my number one priority is the economy. :dontknow: I don't think he pays attention when I give him the reasons why I don't vote like him.

    Would be pretty awesome if it could be just about the economy, but government is involved in stuff that affects us way deeper than fiscally. I'm dating a passionate democrat and I'm not hugely concerned with politics other than when it's time to vote (not much I can do any other time so why stress about it?). I am glad I can stop seeing political ads and stop listening to my bf b***h lol
  • seamelody14seamelody14 Posts: 282Registered Users
    I agree both sides did a poor job courting women voters. I am pro-life/anti-abortion rights and I think Obama had to sell out his true pro-life position to win this election, and that makes me sick. But it's the way of the world anymore, sadly. So he lost stripes w/ me over that one. But redeemed himself slightly w/ the Ledbetter Bill.

    Mitt Romney...not doing anything one way or another for women and he's smarmy, elist, racist prick, so there you go.

    I don't think that he's selling out, I honestly think he is pro- choice, as a huge percentage of women are. I respect those who choose to be pro-life, but I don't respect the notion of forcing that on other women. What of the tables were turned, and abortions were forced on women who were pregnant out of wedlock? It sounds preposterous, and almost laughable to think that would ever happen, right? Why is it not preposterous to for others to force their opinion on women who choose to abort? Why is it still a debate? I feel the same way about gay marriage. Why are straight, homophobic people forcing their opinion on gay people? If Obama were not pro-choice, I don't think I could vote for him. That's obviously not the only reason why I voted for him, but if he spoke out against my rights to control my body, I couldn't vote for him.
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  • theliothelio Posts: 5,374Registered Users
    I agree both sides did a poor job courting women voters. I am pro-life/anti-abortion rights and I think Obama had to sell out his true pro-life position to win this election, and that makes me sick. But it's the way of the world anymore, sadly. So he lost stripes w/ me over that one. But redeemed himself slightly w/ the Ledbetter Bill.

    Mitt Romney...not doing anything one way or another for women and he's smarmy, elist, racist prick, so there you go.

    I don't think that he's selling out, I honestly think he is pro- choice, as a huge percentage of women are. I respect those who choose to be pro-life, but I don't respect the notion of forcing that on other women. What of the tables were turned, and abortions were forced on women who were pregnant out of wedlock? It sounds preposterous, and almost laughable to think that would ever happen, right? Why is it not preposterous to for others to force their opinion on women who choose to abort? Why is it still a debate? I feel the same way about gay marriage. Why are straight, homophobic people forcing their opinion on gay people? If Obama were not pro-choice, I don't think I could vote for him. That's obviously not the only reason why I voted for him, but if he spoke out against my rights to control my body, I couldn't vote for him.

    i have to agree. i think obama believes women are intelligent enough to be able to make choices concerning their own bodies. You can have your beliefs just dont force them on others.

    sidenote: a friend from a small phillipino village asked me about md allowing gays to marry. she said is was disgusting because it goes against the bible. I told her would she like laws passed based on people's religion? "you like pork? well muslims and jews dont eat pork. would you like a lay passed saying because they dont eat pork no one can eat pork?" she said no! "so you get it? america is huge. you can not make laws based on one religion. you can have your beliefs but you have no right to pass it on to others. unless you plan to marry a women you dont have to concern yourself with gay people's private lives."
  • goldencurlygoldencurly Posts: 2,385Registered Users
    I get it and you totally. Very well said.
  • B-wavyB-wavy Posts: 1,733Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    thelio in 2016!
  • theliothelio Posts: 5,374Registered Users
    B-wavy wrote: »
    thelio in 2016!

    When I was a little girl I would line up my stuffed toys and give my presidental speeches. I cant remember all my platforms but I know one of them was no more homework! oh and every kid gets to go to disney world. :D
  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    thelio wrote: »
    I agree both sides did a poor job courting women voters. I am pro-life/anti-abortion rights and I think Obama had to sell out his true pro-life position to win this election, and that makes me sick. But it's the way of the world anymore, sadly. So he lost stripes w/ me over that one. But redeemed himself slightly w/ the Ledbetter Bill.

    Mitt Romney...not doing anything one way or another for women and he's smarmy, elist, racist prick, so there you go.

    I don't think that he's selling out, I honestly think he is pro- choice, as a huge percentage of women are. I respect those who choose to be pro-life, but I don't respect the notion of forcing that on other women. What of the tables were turned, and abortions were forced on women who were pregnant out of wedlock? It sounds preposterous, and almost laughable to think that would ever happen, right? Why is it not preposterous to for others to force their opinion on women who choose to abort? Why is it still a debate? I feel the same way about gay marriage. Why are straight, homophobic people forcing their opinion on gay people? If Obama were not pro-choice, I don't think I could vote for him. That's obviously not the only reason why I voted for him, but if he spoke out against my rights to control my body, I couldn't vote for him.

    i have to agree. i think obama believes women are intelligent enough to be able to make choices concerning their own bodies. You can have your beliefs just dont force them on others.

    Bc we believe it's the murder of another human life and we have forced our belief on others that murder is wrong.

    I don't think the premise of forced abortion really makes sense. My objection isn't that something is forced. It is that I don't believe in killing people.

  • sus811sus811 Posts: 98Registered Users
    thelio wrote: »
    I agree both sides did a poor job courting women voters. I am pro-life/anti-abortion rights and I think Obama had to sell out his true pro-life position to win this election, and that makes me sick. But it's the way of the world anymore, sadly. So he lost stripes w/ me over that one. But redeemed himself slightly w/ the Ledbetter Bill.

    Mitt Romney...not doing anything one way or another for women and he's smarmy, elist, racist prick, so there you go.

    I don't think that he's selling out, I honestly think he is pro- choice, as a huge percentage of women are. I respect those who choose to be pro-life, but I don't respect the notion of forcing that on other women. What of the tables were turned, and abortions were forced on women who were pregnant out of wedlock? It sounds preposterous, and almost laughable to think that would ever happen, right? Why is it not preposterous to for others to force their opinion on women who choose to abort? Why is it still a debate? I feel the same way about gay marriage. Why are straight, homophobic people forcing their opinion on gay people? If Obama were not pro-choice, I don't think I could vote for him. That's obviously not the only reason why I voted for him, but if he spoke out against my rights to control my body, I couldn't vote for him.

    i have to agree. i think obama believes women are intelligent enough to be able to make choices concerning their own bodies. You can have your beliefs just dont force them on others.

    sidenote: a friend from a small phillipino village asked me about md allowing gays to marry. she said is was disgusting because it goes against the bible. I told her would she like laws passed based on people's religion? "you like pork? well muslims and jews dont eat pork. would you like a lay passed saying because they dont eat pork no one can eat pork?" she said no! "so you get it? america is huge. you can not make laws based on one religion. you can have your beliefs but you have no right to pass it on to others. unless you plan to marry a women you dont have to concern yourself with gay people's private lives."

    Love your side note. I usually just roll my eyes at people when they start quoting their religion with the gay community stuff. Your argument is valid and well said. I may borrow it!!
  • sus811sus811 Posts: 98Registered Users
    thelio wrote: »

    I don't think that he's selling out, I honestly think he is pro- choice, as a huge percentage of women are. I respect those who choose to be pro-life, but I don't respect the notion of forcing that on other women. What of the tables were turned, and abortions were forced on women who were pregnant out of wedlock? It sounds preposterous, and almost laughable to think that would ever happen, right? Why is it not preposterous to for others to force their opinion on women who choose to abort? Why is it still a debate? I feel the same way about gay marriage. Why are straight, homophobic people forcing their opinion on gay people? If Obama were not pro-choice, I don't think I could vote for him. That's obviously not the only reason why I voted for him, but if he spoke out against my rights to control my body, I couldn't vote for him.

    i have to agree. i think obama believes women are intelligent enough to be able to make choices concerning their own bodies. You can have your beliefs just dont force them on others.

    Bc we believe it's the murder of another human life and we have forced our belief on others that murder is wrong.

    I don't think the premise of forced abortion really makes sense. My objection isn't that something is forced. It is that I don't believe in killing people.

    Some religions believe birth control is a form of abortion. An egg can be fertilized, but because of birth control it can't attach to the uterus in turn killing a fertilized egg. Right?

    I would never have an abortion and I don't approve of abortions out of irresponsibility and being unwilling to take responsibility for ones actions, but in some cases, I could see how it could be warranted (just not by me). I hope I'm never in that situation (rape or incest), but it's tough to say what may happen if I were. I like to think I know, but always and never are big words.
  • seamelody14seamelody14 Posts: 282Registered Users
    thelio wrote: »

    I don't think that he's selling out, I honestly think he is pro- choice, as a huge percentage of women are. I respect those who choose to be pro-life, but I don't respect the notion of forcing that on other women. What of the tables were turned, and abortions were forced on women who were pregnant out of wedlock? It sounds preposterous, and almost laughable to think that would ever happen, right? Why is it not preposterous to for others to force their opinion on women who choose to abort? Why is it still a debate? I feel the same way about gay marriage. Why are straight, homophobic people forcing their opinion on gay people? If Obama were not pro-choice, I don't think I could vote for him. That's obviously not the only reason why I voted for him, but if he spoke out against my rights to control my body, I couldn't vote for him.

    i have to agree. i think obama believes women are intelligent enough to be able to make choices concerning their own bodies. You can have your beliefs just dont force them on others.

    Bc we believe it's the murder of another human life and we have forced our belief on others that murder is wrong.

    I don't think the premise of forced abortion really makes sense. My objection isn't that something is forced. It is that I don't believe in killing people.

    It is forcing someone to carry out a pregnancy, and have a child. That is a huge thing, and I don't think it's responsible for people who know that they don't have the time or means to have a child to have one. It might not be taking a life to not have an abortion, but it could drastically impact two lives, and not in a positive way. We already have far too many children living in the foster care system, and far too many who are neglected or abused. But even if abortion were to be criminalizes, it wouldn't stop it from occurring. It's kind of like how in many states, marijuana is criminalized, but does that stop people? I've read an article about illegal abortion clinics, ironically in a Christian republican magazine that was written to enforce the pro-life stance, describing how illegal abortion clinics operated. Of course, abortion is legal now, so why were these clinics illegal? Because they were aborting 8 month fetuses. In some instances, women would give birth, and then their babies would be killed. I don't know what skewed logic the author used to think that this article would support criminalizing abortion, but for me it did just the opposite. After reading that article, I had yet another reason to be strongly pro-choice. In a perfect world, where nobody ever tried to defy the law, even if they were desperate, making abortions illegal would have a huge negative impact on the lives of the mothers, and many times the children. But that's in a "perfect" world. In reality, we'd see a huge spike in illegal abortions, and I don't think I need to get into why that would be the worse option. It would not save any lives, that I can assure you.
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  • irociroc Posts: 7,890Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I dont like the argument that its forcing someone to carry and have a child because, well, that is the natural order of things. And there are plenty of things you can do to avoid pregnancy. There are some things in life that happen, and you don't have the option of hitting the reset button.

    And I wont use the religious argument BC not every person is religious or believes in God.

    Some people believe it is a human life. Some people argue that it is not.

    I personally do not agree with abortion. I personally feel that it is, in most cases, a situation that it avoidable, or acceptable. That is why in most situations I would personally not choose to have an abortion. But laws are not based on my moral compass or the choices I would make. They are based on what is best for the general public.

    You may argue that it is killing a life, but it is happening inside another preexisting life. That person should be allowed to choose what is happening to their body, if there is a choice available. You may not feel its 'right', but I don't believe its the governments job to force you to do what they think is right, or live by another persons moral compass.



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  • seamelody14seamelody14 Posts: 282Registered Users
    Ok, I know I'm kind of going off an a tangent here, but since we're on the topic of social issues, there's another one that I feel the need to elaborate on, gay marriage. I feel that the reversal scenario really fits flawlessly for this argument. Think about it, what if the majority of people were gay, and most followed a popular religion, and said religion banned straight marriage. What if you were straight, and it was you who was in the minority, and you loved someone, but the law said you couldn't marry them? (by the way, I use "you" hypothetically, this is directed at nobody in particular, just want to prove a point to to those who oppose gay marriage) If I tell this to people who oppose gay marriage, they tell me that it's a ridiculous scenario. Really? Why? Because now its the heterosexual couple that is being denied rights? I ask them, by what logic, other than prejudice and religion (both of which are invalid , prejudice for obvious reasons, and religion because of the separation of church and state) should gay people not have the same rights as straight people. And I have never gotten an answer to that. I really can't find anything in the constitution that opposes gay marriage, or anything remotely government related for that matter. If straight people weren't allowed to marry, of course there would be a massive outrage. It would simply never be allowed to happen. So why is it that many people think, unfortunately, that it's ok for people to be denied rights because of their sexual orientation? People need to remember that just 60 years ago, there was a "white" water fountain, and a "colored" one. Just 90 years ago, women could not vote. Those who oppose gay marriage, but wouldn't ever think to shamelessly condone racism and sexism, well...
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  • seamelody14seamelody14 Posts: 282Registered Users
    iroc wrote: »
    I dont like the argument that its forcing someone to carry and have a child because, well, that is the natural order of things. And there are plenty of things you can do to avoid pregnancy. There are some things in life that happen, and you don't have the option of hitting the reset button.

    And I wont use the religious argument BC not every person is religious or believes in God.

    Some people believe it is a human life. Some people argue that it is not.

    I personally do not agree with abortion. I personally feel that it is, in most cases, a situation that it avoidable, or acceptable. That is why in most situations I would personally not choose to have an abortion. But laws are not based on my moral compass or the choices I would make. They are based on what is best for the general public.

    You may argue that it is killing a life, but it is happening inside another preexisting life. That person should be allowed to choose what is happening to their body, if there is a choice available. You may not feel its 'right', but I don't believe its the governments job to force you to do what they think is right, or live by another persons moral compass.



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    I personally do not agree with using abortion as a form of birth control either, if that's what you're getting at, but there are many situations in which I think it would be irresponsible, or detrimental to have a child. I also believe that an adult woman is more of a life than a group of cells who cannot think, feel, etc. I know people will disagree with me, but I feel that even if yes, a fetus is technically alive, it is not alive in the sense that we think of when we think of murder, so therefore it's not murder. It is terminating a potential life, rather than a life. I understand why people may be against that, and I respect that, I really do. But in the end, I, and only I, should be in control of my body.
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  • theliothelio Posts: 5,374Registered Users
    thelio wrote: »

    I don't think that he's selling out, I honestly think he is pro- choice, as a huge percentage of women are. I respect those who choose to be pro-life, but I don't respect the notion of forcing that on other women. What of the tables were turned, and abortions were forced on women who were pregnant out of wedlock? It sounds preposterous, and almost laughable to think that would ever happen, right? Why is it not preposterous to for others to force their opinion on women who choose to abort? Why is it still a debate? I feel the same way about gay marriage. Why are straight, homophobic people forcing their opinion on gay people? If Obama were not pro-choice, I don't think I could vote for him. That's obviously not the only reason why I voted for him, but if he spoke out against my rights to control my body, I couldn't vote for him.

    i have to agree. i think obama believes women are intelligent enough to be able to make choices concerning their own bodies. You can have your beliefs just dont force them on others.

    Bc we believe it's the murder of another human life and we have forced our belief on others that murder is wrong.

    I don't think the premise of forced abortion really makes sense. My objection isn't that something is forced. It is that I don't believe in killing people.

    But "we" is not all. everyone does not believe abortion is murder. Everyone does not have your beliefs.

    I agree with iroc. she does not believe in abortion either, but (I will quote her because she said it best) "You may not feel its 'right', but I don't believe its the governments job to force you to do what they think is right, or live by another persons moral compass. "

    alot of folks feel that eating animals or wearing animals is wrong. they feel that is murder. You want PETA making the laws for you because they feel that something is not right?

    I think when it comes to people's bodies, and what they choice to do with it is no ones business. what i do with my body is no ones business. just like what you do is your own business, not mine.

    And their was a time when certain women had forced sterilization performed on them. to me its the same thing. telling a women, "you too stupid, so us men will make choices for you." I think its even sadder when women want to make choices for other women.
  • seamelody14seamelody14 Posts: 282Registered Users
    iroc wrote: »
    I dont like the argument that its forcing someone to carry and have a child because, well, that is the natural order of things. And there are plenty of things you can do to avoid pregnancy. There are some things in life that happen, and you don't have the option of hitting the reset button.

    And I wont use the religious argument BC not every person is religious or believes in God.

    Some people believe it is a human life. Some people argue that it is not.

    I personally do not agree with abortion. I personally feel that it is, in most cases, a situation that it avoidable, or acceptable. That is why in most situations I would personally not choose to have an abortion. But laws are not based on my moral compass or the choices I would make. They are based on what is best for the general public.

    You may argue that it is killing a life, but it is happening inside another preexisting life. That person should be allowed to choose what is happening to their body, if there is a choice available. You may not feel its 'right', but I don't believe its the governments job to force you to do what they think is right, or live by another persons moral compass.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using CurlTalk App

    I personally do not agree with using abortion as a form of birth control either, if that's what you're getting at, but there are many situations in which I think it would be irresponsible, or detrimental to have a child. I also believe that an adult woman is more of a life than a group of cells who cannot think, feel, etc. I know people will disagree with me, but I feel that even if yes, a fetus is technically alive, it is not alive in the sense that we think of when we think of murder, so therefore it's not murder. It is terminating a potential life, rather than a life. I understand why people may be against that, and I respect that, I really do. But in the end, I, and only I, should be in control of my body.

    Wow, I totally quoted the wrong post. I agree with you iroc, that's its not the governments position to decide.
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  • spiderlashes5000spiderlashes5000 Posts: 17,495Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    thelio wrote: »
    thelio wrote: »

    i have to agree. i think obama believes women are intelligent enough to be able to make choices concerning their own bodies. You can have your beliefs just dont force them on others.

    Bc we believe it's the murder of another human life and we have forced our belief on others that murder is wrong.

    I don't think the premise of forced abortion really makes sense. My objection isn't that something is forced. It is that I don't believe in killing people.

    But "we" is not all. everyone does not believe abortion is murder. Everyone does not have your beliefs.

    I agree with iroc. she does not believe in abortion either, but (I will quote her because she said it best) "You may not feel its 'right', but I don't believe its the governments job to force you to do what they think is right, or live by another persons moral compass. "

    alot of folks feel that eating animals or wearing animals is wrong. they feel that is murder. You want PETA making the laws for you because they feel that something is not right?

    I think when it comes to people's bodies, and what they choice to do with it is no ones business. what i do with my body is no ones business. just like what you do is your own business, not mine.

    And their was a time when certain women had forced sterilization performed on them. to me its the same thing. telling a women, "you too stupid, so us men will make choices for you." I think its even sadder when women want to make choices for other women.


    Anything w/ human DNA and a beating heart is a living human. Now, it is clear in our society that some living humans are thought to be more deserving of life and others less so...such as fetuses, criminals, the elderly, the seriously ill, Black men, the mentally impaired, on and on.

    I just don't agree. ("We" is people who feel like I feel.)

    The gov't forces us to do stuff and not do stuff all the time.

    There are a couple of people I want to kill right now. If I could D&C them right out of my life, I would be happy. But the gov't has forced its moral compass upon me. LOL

    I don't believe animal life is sacred. But I do believe human life is. So I, personally, can't go there w/ PETA...tho I respect their position. It just isn't mine.

    I, personally, don't have a problem w/ people choosing to sterilize themselves or for sterilization to be strongly recommeded for someone under certain circumstances. But that IMO isn't really related to this topic. I'm talking about ending life that has already been created.

    (I agree we should have control over ~our own~ bodies. So no forced sterilization.) But in the case of a pregnancy, there are two bodies...and unless the mother's life is in imminent danger, both bodies have an inherent right to live.

    It's not popular anymore but it's just how I feel. And no amount of implication that I'm stupid, unenlightened, brainwashed, submissive, moralistic, etc., is going to change that.

    And I can't wait for the chance to vote for somone who TRULY supports and represents MY beliefs. I would work hard to get that person elected. Tired of having to halfway sell out everytime I go to the polls.

  • anonymous_22139anonymous_22139 Posts: 659Registered Users
    Just a reminder. "They" are 50% of this nation. If we are to work together, perhaps you should look at their viewpoint instead of pointing.

    I am one of them. I believe strongly that small government is better government. In fact I believe it so strongly that I can't even really support the Republican party anymore since they want to intrude into personal freedoms too much.

    I just want to remind all of you, that it isn't "them" it is us. Time to come together again for the good of us all.
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