CurlTalk

whats the big flap about BB creams?

MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
Have you tried any, and what do you think?
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  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    For me it's the idea of having sunscreen and makeup in one product. I know I have to wear sunscreen, but my face hates it, and my skin especially hates layers of product. Plus, I'm not that into makeup. Sunscreens are usually so greasy, or they sting my eyes, or cause cysts...yuck. But I live in AZ and I'm getting old. I'll fight sun damage and aging tooth and nail!

    I've tried Miracle Skin Transformer (greasy, rubs off on everything), Too Faced BB Cream (greasier...makes me look like I haven't washed in a year), Garnier (absolutely a nightmare...full of alcohol and looked like a mask), and a few others. Most of them are clearly made to give skin a white cast, so they look gray and creepy on me.

    But - there is one I've been using for a couple of months and I'm pleased with it. It's called Boscia BB Cream. It's super easy. I slap it on in the mornings and I don't have to worry about how I blend it or anything. I don't even have to look in the mirror when rubbing it on. It's got SPF 27, and it kind of "color matches" to my medium olive skin. It gets lighter throughout the day, though, so by evening if I don't touch up with bronzer or something I look like a mime. Aside from that, it has good coverage for covering my dark spots, and it looks as natural as a product like this can look. It shows up white in photos, but for easy, quick day-wear it's really a great product.s1339035-main-Lhero.jpg
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  • RedCatWavesRedCatWaves Posts: 31,258Registered Users
    Myrna wrote: »
    Have you tried any, and what do you think?



    I don't know what the big flap is, and I have not tried any. You really couldn't pay me to use one of those pore cloggers on my very tempermental acne-prone skin. I have found that products that try to do too many tasks at once...usually fail to do any of them well.

    I do not wear sunscreen or moisturizer on a daily basis. They ALL break me out. Plus, it's a big myth that the sunscreen you apply in the morning is doing anything for you in the afternoon. It just doesn't last that long. For days that I'm going to be spending a lot of time in the sun, I rely on a dedicated sunscreen that I re-apply frequently. For daily incidental protection, though, I rely on shade and mineral makeup (which contains a natural physical sunscreen that my skin tolerates very well).
  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Posts: 4,162Registered Users
    Well from my research, american beauty balms (bb creams) are generally glorified tinted moisturizers. The Asian bb creams (which is we're they originated) are a completely different product. Asian bb creams are more like foundations with skin care benefits. They offer heavier coverage like a medium coverage foundation. The problem with them is that because of all the stuff in them, it's hard to get the pigmentation dark enough to really sell here in the US.

    The bb creams sold in the US are much thinner consistency and have the coverage of a light tinted moisturizer. A true BB cream is supposed to be an all in one product...concealer, SPF, foundation, and antioxidants. US bb creams clearly miss the mark on this one.

    I've only found 2 bb creams even close enough to use on my skin...maybelline's bb cream in dark and smashbox bb cream. I still use the maybelline bb cream...mostly in the summer and weekends when I only need light coverage because it provides almost no coverage.
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  • claudine19claudine19 Posts: 4,486Registered Users
    Meh.

    Doesn't work well with large pores.
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  • papayahedpapayahed Posts: 1,282Registered Users
    Smashbox bb cream works really well for me. I tried a bunch of different ones until I found the right shade for me.
  • Alice_42 Alice_42 Posts: 791Registered Users
    Well from my research, american beauty balms (bb creams) are generally glorified tinted moisturizers. The Asian bb creams (which is we're they originated) are a completely different product. Asian bb creams are more like foundations with skin care benefits. They offer heavier coverage like a medium coverage foundation. The problem with them is that because of all the stuff in them, it's hard to get the pigmentation dark enough to really sell here in the US.

    The bb creams sold in the US are much thinner consistency and have the coverage of a light tinted moisturizer. A true BB cream is supposed to be an all in one product...concealer, SPF, foundation, and antioxidants. US bb creams clearly miss the mark on this one.

    I've only found 2 bb creams even close enough to use on my skin...maybelline's bb cream in dark and smashbox bb cream. I still use the maybelline bb cream...mostly in the summer and weekends when I only need light coverage because it provides almost no coverage.

    This is what I've heard as well-US fancy tinted moisturizer, Asian actual all in one product and treatment. I would love to try an Asian BB cream because I love the idea of an all in one product that is good for my skin, but I know I'll never find one that matches.

    If you don't match Asian BB cream shades, I'd say pass on the trend and make your own tinted moisturizer . It's super easy, only adds a few minutes to your morning routine and you get more bang for your buck since the drugstore BB creams cost more than their foundations for less product.
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  • MyrnaMyrna Posts: 2,332Registered Users Curl Neophyte
    I confess I caved and ordered Oriental Gold from Skin79. I dont think it is necessarily a tinted moisturizer; I do like it a lot, and this is coming from someone who could not find a foundation she really loved. When I apply it, it goes on thick, but my skin absorbes it and I get a really nice finish. I use my check stain, and then a light dusting of powder. I dont know if I will love this routine in the hot weather, but it is nice for now. The color kind of blends into my skin.
  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    Well from my research, american beauty balms (bb creams) are generally glorified tinted moisturizers. The Asian bb creams (which is we're they originated) are a completely different product. Asian bb creams are more like foundations with skin care benefits. They offer heavier coverage like a medium coverage foundation. The problem with them is that because of all the stuff in them, it's hard to get the pigmentation dark enough to really sell here in the US.

    The bb creams sold in the US are much thinner consistency and have the coverage of a light tinted moisturizer. A true BB cream is supposed to be an all in one product...concealer, SPF, foundation, and antioxidants. US bb creams clearly miss the mark on this one.

    I've only found 2 bb creams even close enough to use on my skin...maybelline's bb cream in dark and smashbox bb cream. I still use the maybelline bb cream...mostly in the summer and weekends when I only need light coverage because it provides almost no coverage.

    This is what I've heard as well-US fancy tinted moisturizer, Asian actual all in one product and treatment. I would love to try an Asian BB cream because I love the idea of an all in one product that is good for my skin, but I know I'll never find one that matches.

    If you don't match Asian BB cream shades, I'd say pass on the trend and make your own tinted moisturizer . It's super easy, only adds a few minutes to your morning routine and you get more bang for your buck since the drugstore BB creams cost more than their foundations for less product.

    From what I've experienced, this is pretty accurate. For example, I use a Japanese BB Cream, Boscia, which has all kinds of skin care ingredients in it, as well as Arbutin for skin lightening. It has a strange texture when first applied, but, believe me, it doesn't budge. It seems to "become one" with my skin (if that makes any sense). Somehow it has really good coverage, especially over my pores, but it's not "mask-like" in the least.

    Similar American made products I've purchased in the past are Miracle Skin Transformer in Medium Tan, and Too Faced Beauty Balm. With MST, I like the color a lot, but it absolutely sits on top of my skin, and it never dries. It rubs off on everything, and if it's not rubbed off, it disappears in about two hours anyways. I tried setting it with powder, but it became a cakey mess. Plus one of the reasons I wanted a "bb" cream was so I wouldn't have to layer makeup on my face.

    At some point, I also bought Too Faced "Beauty Balm". I'd never used tinted moisturizer, because I'm pretty oily, but I'm betting that Too Faced Beauty Balm is basically a "tinted moisturizer". It's greasy, somewhat heavy, shiny, and it adds color instead of blending.

    The Boscia BB Cream really shouldn't be compared to the two product I've just mentioned, because it functions so differently. Fortunately for me, I can pull off the color of this one.

    I've been wanted to try that Skin79, but I don't know where to find a reputable seller in the US. Myrna, do you think the Skin79 would work on medium/olive skin? Does it do the "self-matching" thing?
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  • bookgirlbookgirl Posts: 128Registered Users
    I've been using L'Oreal's Magic BB Cream and I love it. I hate regular foundations (too heavy, usually, and I hate having to layer with powder to set it; also, I hate the heavier coverage - I have a natural rosy flush that foundation smothers, which necessitates wearing blush, and I usually do not want to do a full face). I hate tinted moisturizers because they tend to have a tacky/dewy finish that rubs off on everything.

    The BB cream that I use is a very thin formula that dries to a matte, velvety finish. It blurs any imperfections (rather than smothering them), lets my natural flush on my cheeks show through, and tones down but does not erase my freckles. I don't want to look like I'm wearing a mask, but I do want to look more "even," in terms of the reddish areas around my nose and the darker circles under my eyes, etc. I have to use very little to no concealer if I use my BB cream, and it feels like I have nothing on.

    The BB cream is something I can put on in two seconds flat with no other makeup and look better without much effort at all. I get compliments on my skin and on just generally looking "awake" just using one product with no other makeup on my face.
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  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    bookgirl, Does the L'Oreal BB Cream have SPF?
    3b/c, Coarse, Low Porosity, Desert Climate
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  • bookgirlbookgirl Posts: 128Registered Users
    bookgirl, Does the L'Oreal BB Cream have SPF?

    Unfortunately, no.
    2c, fine, extremely dense, color-treated, high porosity.

    CG since 10/12
  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    The L'Oreal sounds like something I'd really like, though. I may give it a try for makeup when I know I won't have any sun exposure. A "thin matte velvety" finish is exactly what I've been looking for, and, so far, that description doesn't apply to any of the BB's I've tried!
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  • bookgirlbookgirl Posts: 128Registered Users
    The L'Oreal sounds like something I'd really like, though. I may give it a try for makeup when I know I won't have any sun exposure. A "thin matte velvety" finish is exactly what I've been looking for, and, so far, that description doesn't apply to any of the BB's I've tried!

    Be careful to get the "Magic" version in the white tube, not the anti-aging one in the metallic tube. I've heard the latter is heavy and greasy (as well as nearly identical to the much cheaper Garnier version - they have the same parent company). If you want to try the metallic tube L'Oreal, you're better off trying the Garnier.
    2c, fine, extremely dense, color-treated, high porosity.

    CG since 10/12
  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    I tried the Garnier, and, for my skin it was nasty. Not only did it cover like a weird plastic mask, it smelled strongly of ethanol (alcohol denat), and it made me break out in cystic acne. Yucky.

    I'm going to give the Magic a try. I like the name of it, too!
    3b/c, Coarse, Low Porosity, Desert Climate
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    Favorites: Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl Cleansing Conditioner, Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl High Definition Moisture Gel, Beautiful Nutrition UltraLight Lime Jel Control Serum, Beautiful Nutrition Lemon Rinse Clarifying Treatment
  • bookgirlbookgirl Posts: 128Registered Users
    I tried the Garnier, and, for my skin it was nasty. Not only did it cover like a weird plastic mask, it smelled strongly of ethanol (alcohol denat), and it made me break out in cystic acne. Yucky!

    This doesn't surprise me - I've heard horrid things about the Garnier and silver tube L'Oreal.
    2c, fine, extremely dense, color-treated, high porosity.

    CG since 10/12
  • hmkennyhmkenny Posts: 1,409Registered Users
    Sounds like the emperor's new clothes to me, although I was tempted to try a drugstore brand. Then I remembered why I switched to a mineral foundation in the first place -- to get the coverage I wanted plus a touch of sun protection, without the clogged pores and acne cysts.
    3a/medium texture/normal porosity
  • gardencurlsgardencurls Posts: 573Registered Users
    hmkenny wrote: »
    Sounds like the emperor's new clothes to me, although I was tempted to try a drugstore brand. Then I remembered why I switched to a mineral foundation in the first place -- to get the coverage I wanted plus a touch of sun protection, without the clogged pores and acne cysts.

    Do you know of any mineral foundation with more than SPF 15? Also, mineral powders always make my skin itch and they look shiny. Do you have any expert "tips"? I'd love to use just a powder, because I have oily skin, but I need that SPF more than anything...

    Thanks! :flower:
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    Favorites: Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl Cleansing Conditioner, Beautiful Nutrition Cocoa Curl High Definition Moisture Gel, Beautiful Nutrition UltraLight Lime Jel Control Serum, Beautiful Nutrition Lemon Rinse Clarifying Treatment
  • Alice_42 Alice_42 Posts: 791Registered Users
    hmkenny wrote: »
    Sounds like the emperor's new clothes to me, although I was tempted to try a drugstore brand. Then I remembered why I switched to a mineral foundation in the first place -- to get the coverage I wanted plus a touch of sun protection, without the clogged pores and acne cysts.

    Do you know of any mineral foundation with more than SPF 15? Also, mineral powders always make my skin itch and they look shiny. Do you have any expert "tips"? I'd love to use just a powder, because I have oily skin, but I need that SPF more than anything...

    Thanks! :flower:

    I think the Bare Minerals compact is SPF 20. For extra SPF, I use a gel sunblock under my mineral make up or powder make up instead of a primer. I prefer a gel formula because they don't make me as greasy as traditional sunblock, but they can cost more. I've been using SolBar's in SPF 30 but I got a sample of CoTZ's Face Natural Skin Tone Sunblock in SPF 40 from Ulta and I think I might be in love. It feels more like a primer than a sunblock and it takes make up SO WELL. Nothing budged once I layered over it.
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  • coilynappcoilynapp Posts: 4,233Registered Users
    Anyone tried Sleek's BB Cream?
    th?id=H.4940802350254088&pid=1.7&w=183&h=144&c=7&rs=1
  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Posts: 4,162Registered Users
    Sleek is on my to try list. I've read some really good reviews from darker skinned women that say it is the bomb.com. I'm gonna put in a sleek order around Black Friday
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  • coilynappcoilynapp Posts: 4,233Registered Users
    Sleek is on my to try list. I've read some really good reviews from darker skinned women that say it is the bomb.com. I'm gonna put in a sleek order around Black Friday
    Their whole line has lots of beautiful colors for dark skinned women. I'm currently in Sleek lust. Hopefully they have a good BF sale. And hopefully they get some stateside distribution because the price point on their stuff is great and if the BB cream is everything the reviewers say, I think I'm going to like it.
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  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    bookgirl wrote: »
    I tried the Garnier, and, for my skin it was nasty. Not only did it cover like a weird plastic mask, it smelled strongly of ethanol (alcohol denat), and it made me break out in cystic acne. Yucky!

    This doesn't surprise me - I've heard horrid things about the Garnier and silver tube L'Oreal.

    Sorry to quote you both, Gardencurls and Bookgirl - I didn't do that to point a finger at you gals,I just wanted to make my point about Garnier.

    I have been using the Garnier BB cream for a month now, and I have a few things to note about it: First, BB creams in general are actually supposed to improve your skin tone, not just hide it...and Garnier did that for me, for sure. I actually noticed fine lines around my eyes "disappearing" - really! Even when I wash my face at the end of the day, some of the crepe-y, super fine lines around my eyes are gone! Also I have noticed a good reduction in the lines that go from nose to mouth. They are not nearly so pronounced. Same for my frown lines.

    Garnier is a bit heavy and greasy, so it is better for people with older, dryer skin. I am 51 and have dry skin and am often outdoors in harsh winter conditions, so my skin drinks this up like no tomorrow. I have a very pale complexion, so the light to medium shade suited my skin - but in the summer, I would never be able to wear this, as I go quite olive in the summer. (Garnier does not have many choice of colours - they only have three, I think. )

    After I have done my face, I wipe the excess from my palms on the backs of my hands and massage it in. My hands look at least ten years younger! Yay! And even after it has washed off, the benefits are still there.

    I haven't tried other brands, I would love to try something from Japan...but can't just now. But I do know the Garnier BB is good for some people. My neighbor also uses it and loves it. I find it spreads easily and gives consistent results, and it does downplay my freckles/uneven skin tone. I use it as a base under my tinted moisturizer, and I still look natural, and not overly made up...

    So, like hair products, facial products work differently on each individual. One thing to note about the Garnier BB is it takes a good ten minutes to seep and settle into skin, so you need to give it a minute!

    Also, I did see on another PJ website that they are now coming out with a CC cream! lol! Apparently, the Olay CC cream is already available in the States. :) Progress, my friends! I am allll for it....
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • Alice_42 Alice_42 Posts: 791Registered Users
    bookgirl wrote: »
    I tried the Garnier, and, for my skin it was nasty. Not only did it cover like a weird plastic mask, it smelled strongly of ethanol (alcohol denat), and it made me break out in cystic acne. Yucky!

    This doesn't surprise me - I've heard horrid things about the Garnier and silver tube L'Oreal.

    Sorry to quote you both, Gardencurls and Bookgirl - I didn't do that to point a finger at you gals,I just wanted to make my point about Garnier.

    I have been using the Garnier BB cream for a month now, and I have a few things to note about it: First, BB creams in general are actually supposed to improve your skin tone, not just hide it...and Garnier did that for me, for sure. I actually noticed fine lines around my eyes "disappearing" - really! Even when I wash my face at the end of the day, some of the crepe-y, super fine lines around my eyes are gone! Also I have noticed a good reduction in the lines that go from nose to mouth. They are not nearly so pronounced. Same for my frown lines.

    Garnier is a bit heavy and greasy, so it is better for people with older, dryer skin. I am 51 and have dry skin and am often outdoors in harsh winter conditions, so my skin drinks this up like no tomorrow. I have a very pale complexion, so the light to medium shade suited my skin - but in the summer, I would never be able to wear this, as I go quite olive in the summer. (Garnier does not have many choice of colours - they only have three, I think. )

    After I have done my face, I wipe the excess from my palms on the backs of my hands and massage it in. My hands look at least ten years younger! Yay! And even after it has washed off, the benefits are still there.

    I haven't tried other brands, I would love to try something from Japan...but can't just now. But I do know the Garnier BB is good for some people. My neighbor also uses it and loves it. I find it spreads easily and gives consistent results, and it does downplay my freckles/uneven skin tone. I use it as a base under my tinted moisturizer, and I still look natural, and not overly made up...

    So, like hair products, facial products work differently on each individual. One thing to note about the Garnier BB is it takes a good ten minutes to seep and settle into skin, so you need to give it a minute!

    Also, I did see on another PJ website that they are now coming out with a CC cream! lol! Apparently, the Olay CC cream is already available in the States. :) Progress, my friends! I am allll for it....
    From what I've heard, the Olay "CC Cream" is an older product (The Total Effects Tone Correcting UV Moisturizer) repackaged with a new name...
    event.png

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  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    Oh! Thanks for letting me know, Alice. Here in Canada we are, seriously, like a whole year behind what you get in the States ;p

    Anyways, if any one is curious about the CC creams coming out, I read about it on TotalBeauty.com...hope it isn't against the rules to post a site! (If it is, then I am sorry, modgods...)
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • Alice_42 Alice_42 Posts: 791Registered Users
    Oh! Thanks for letting me know, Alice. Here in Canada we are, seriously, like a whole year behind what you get in the States ;p

    Anyways, if any one is curious about the CC creams coming out, I read about it on TotalBeauty.com...hope it isn't against the rules to post a site! (If it is, then I am sorry, modgods...)

    No problem! I've been following the BB/CC cream thing for a really long time hoping for something that works for NW/C40+ ladies will come out soon because I love the idea of a one-stop-shop product!

    If you're in Canada, have you tried Marcelle's BB Cream? That seems to be one of the few that keep coming up as something close to a "real" BB Cream in the sense it's an all in one product (moisturizer, primer, foundation) but I don't think it has the skin benefiting ingredients -___-. Here are some swatches compared to Maybelline's BB Cream.
    event.png

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  • Knotty_MaddyKnotty_Maddy Posts: 518Registered Users
    Oh! Thanks for letting me know, Alice. Here in Canada we are, seriously, like a whole year behind what you get in the States ;p

    Anyways, if any one is curious about the CC creams coming out, I read about it on TotalBeauty.com...hope it isn't against the rules to post a site! (If it is, then I am sorry, modgods...)

    No problem! I've been following the BB/CC cream thing for a really long time hoping for something that works for NW/C40+ ladies will come out soon because I love the idea of a one-stop-shop product!

    If you're in Canada, have you tried Marcelle's BB Cream? That seems to be one of the few that keep coming up as something close to a "real" BB Cream in the sense it's an all in one product (moisturizer, primer, foundation) but I don't think it has the skin benefiting ingredients -___-. Here are some swatches compared to Maybelline's BB Cream.

    I think I did look at the Marcelle - I think it was the price that stopped me, lol! I will go have another look at it, though! Thanks for your help, Alice - much appreciated :)
    Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
    S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
    My hair officially hates protein ;) Once a month is enough!
    Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay! :D
    BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
  • Alice_42 Alice_42 Posts: 791Registered Users
    Oh! Thanks for letting me know, Alice. Here in Canada we are, seriously, like a whole year behind what you get in the States ;p

    Anyways, if any one is curious about the CC creams coming out, I read about it on TotalBeauty.com...hope it isn't against the rules to post a site! (If it is, then I am sorry, modgods...)

    No problem! I've been following the BB/CC cream thing for a really long time hoping for something that works for NW/C40+ ladies will come out soon because I love the idea of a one-stop-shop product!

    If you're in Canada, have you tried Marcelle's BB Cream? That seems to be one of the few that keep coming up as something close to a "real" BB Cream in the sense it's an all in one product (moisturizer, primer, foundation) but I don't think it has the skin benefiting ingredients -___-. Here are some swatches compared to Maybelline's BB Cream.

    I think I did look at the Marcelle - I think it was the price that stopped me, lol! I will go have another look at it, though! Thanks for your help, Alice - much appreciated :)

    Yeah, the price is NOT cute. But I think you get more product in it than the other drugstore ones (ex: the Maybelline one is TINY! It's insultingly small for the price!). I'm hoping they do a holiday sale soon because it's one of the few bb creams I really want to try!
    event.png

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  • EricachristinaEricachristina Posts: 496Registered Users
    For me my Foundation is enough! It’s about making money they are marketing BB cream as something women need in their makeup bags all of a sudden but the truth is before this fad we were all doing pretty well without it.
    I have a good foundation with SPF in it and sometimes I use a light concealer so I have no need to slather on another layer of product underneath that.
    Every day I see a commercial for a new and improved anti-aging cream, foundation, bb cream, moisturizer, hair dye, face cream, mascara, lipstick...They want us to think there is something wrong with the way we look so we will go out and keep buying tons of new things to cover our faces in.
    I’m all for makeup but I’m not for making women think these things are essential to looking great.
    Just use what you need, if you like the bb cream fine if you don't need it don't feel you have to buy into the fad.
  • Nappy_curly_crownNappy_curly_crown Posts: 4,162Registered Users
    *Awkward pause after way random rant*

    Any who, Alice, I've heard on the e-streets that Iman is releasing a BB cream specificly for WOC (which in her range includes women of Asian, Latino, and African heritage). Looks interesting. Have you heard rumblings of this anywhere?
    Wanna talk products? Come Join us here!
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    Extremely thick, kinky curls/coils that have a mind of thier own!!!!
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  • coilynappcoilynapp Posts: 4,233Registered Users
    Oooh. Thanks NCC. Says it wont be out till 2013 in jan (online only) and then in march (stores). I look forward to trying it.
    th?id=H.4940802350254088&pid=1.7&w=183&h=144&c=7&rs=1
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